Need Compressor Motor: Baldor, Leeson, or WEG?

[like2wheel]

Found a great deal on a 5hp Quincy air compressor. Couldn’t pass it up because it came with a refrigerated air dryer. The bad news is it’s 3 phase.

I have a good 7.5hp Baldor, but it’s the wrong frame & rpm (3450). I could re- pulley it, but I think I’d rather have the correct motor on it.

So I’m shopping for a motor. A quick google has people (farmers mostly) saying Baldor aren’t what they used to be, & some saying WEG holding up well. But they are the cheapest, & the name is unfamiliar to me.

Ebay has Baldor & Leeson at $400, & WEG is $345.

Anyone have recent experience with these brands? Or other suggestions?

Thanks









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[marinusdees]

I have a buddy with an electric motor shop. He says WEG stands for world electrical garbage.. WEG is a Brazilian company who digs that motor out of the ground. Copper, iron, then smelt it. They don't alloy steel so don't make steel and roll motor shells. They make OK motors. Lots of cast iron. Last I knew, Baldor was still made in Arkansas. If I was in the market, (I'm not) I would look for a Leeson or Baldor on ebay. 4 pole (1750 rpm ).

 

[laser3kw]

I have the opposite experience with WEG. We have used them for at least 12 years in our industrial machines that run much more demanding environment. VFD drives, starting and stopping multiple times per minute,high loads, normal manufacturing demands. We use everything from 1.5 hp to 200 hp (all 3 phase) and I am unaware of any degraded service or short lives. But then, we may be buying a more premium line suited to our applications and not a consumer line.

 

[Showkey]

The only caution on ebay or other platform where a motor is “too cheap”..........counterfeit ?????

 

[markushofer27]

All the weg motor I have wired mainly on grain bins are made in china. That being said ,I havnt had to change one out .

 

[markushofer27]

Ok I'm can someone tell me how change the font size?

 

[Mark_17]

WEG is a quality unit, well known in the water pump world. Easily on par with its Domestic competitors.

 

[joe_padavano]

I got a 7.5 HP single phase Leeson recently from ebay. Very happy with it. Mine is a 1725 RPM motor, but I paid somewhat more than $400 delivered. The $400 Leesons seem to be 3450 RPM motors.

 

[Norcal]

If a motor is ChiCom made and a US or Mexico sourced one is available I’ll take anything over one made by the ChiComs always.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Out here in the central valley of california there must be hundreds or thousands of WEG motors in use for water well pumping and manure pound pit pumping and agitation floats.

But yeah, Im with Norcal on using USA made motors when possible

 

[MattT]

I have the opposite experience with WEG. We have used them for at least 12 years in our industrial machines that run much more demanding environment. VFD drives, starting and stopping multiple times per minute,high loads, normal manufacturing demands. We use everything from 1.5 hp to 200 hp (all 3 phase) and I am unaware of any degraded service or short lives. But then, we may be buying a more premium line suited to our applications and not a consumer line.

I haven't seen any performance or reliability problems with their Brazilian made industrial line either. Only issue I've had with them is a very long lead on customs.

 

[walta]

Before you buy a new motor consider powering the 3 phase motor with variable frequency drive VFD.

If you do change motors you will need new heaters in the motor starter.

It is unlikely putting a 50% smaller pulley on a 3400 RPM motor will work because with so much less belt surface contact the belts will likely squeal on start up.

Is the dryer 3 phase?

Walt

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I'm in the camp of go ahead and use the motor you have, sourced from amazon or ebay, the correct pulley and taper bushing should both be under $50. Another ~$10 in new hardware and you're in business. If you have the power to run the 7.5hp motor near capacity, I think that pump can be sped up a little for more cfm.

 

[like2wheel]

Before you buy a new motor consider powering the 3 phase motor with variable frequency drive VFD.

If you do change motors you will need new heaters in the motor starter.

It is unlikely putting a 50% smaller pulley on a 3400 RPM motor will work because with so much less belt surface contact the belts will likely squeal on start up.

Is the dryer 3 phase?

Walt

I know little about this, but from the brief research i did on the internet it seems that a VFD is not ideal for a compressor because the motor is loaded at start-up. Also it seems they get very expensive over 3hp.

Yes, I realize I would need new heaters, choosing them was going to be my next question.

Good point about the belt surface thing, this compressor has only one belt where I noticed others have 2. Perhaps those are 3400 rpm.

Luckily the drier is 120.

I'm in the camp of go ahead and use the motor you have, sourced from amazon or ebay, the correct pulley and taper bushing should both be under $50. Another ~$10 in new hardware and you're in business. If you have the power to run the 7.5hp motor near capacity, I think that pump can be sped up a little for more cfm

I think the thing that turned me from that experiment was realizing my mag starter maxed out at 5hp.



Meanwhile the Baldor motor I bookmarked on ebay that was $399 is now listed at $1399!
I was leaning towards that to keep it all USA, but that puts it out of consideration for now. Maybe its temporary.

The WEG motor listing makes the point that it is made in Brazil & not China.



.

 

[wanderer]

Have you considered a smaller motor pulley and a static phase converter?

 

[MattT]

Yes, I realize I would need new heaters, choosing them was going to be my next question.

Just size them as close to motor nameplate FLA as you can get. On a good motor with a 1.15 service factor I'd use closest larger size if you can't get it exact.

I think the thing that turned me from that experiment was realizing my mag starter maxed out at 5hp.

Just double check that starter is good for 240V single phase.

 

[walta]

I have no experience with this unit but 2 minutes on Amazon found this 7.5 Hp VFD for $246 delivered 80% gave it 4 or 5 stars

The VFD will slowly bring the motor up to speed so no lights will be dimming.

Your compressor should have an unloading valve. So it should not be starting under a heavy load, but the flywheel, crank and pistons is a good load by itself.

If you still want single phase look at northern tool selection Leeson 5HP $390

I think a static phase converter is always a poor choice and a very bad choice for an air compressor.

Walt

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I know little about this, but from the brief research i did on the internet it seems that a VFD is not ideal for a compressor because the motor is loaded at start-up. Also it seems they get very expensive over 3hp....
.

If youe referring to compressor head pressure then there shouldnt be any as the unloader valve will bleed any pressure between the check valve and the compressor head.

Have you considered a smaller motor pulley and a static phase converter?

static converters are horrible. they start the motor on 3 phase then drop a leg while the motor is running. this can cause the motor to overheat since its essentially "single-phasing"

 

[American Locomotive]

We used a lot of the Brazillian made WEG industrial motors at my old place. I'd say really the only down side is that they're almost always cast iron, so they're super heavy.

 

[sld961]

I have no experience with this unit but 2 minutes on Amazon found this 7.5 Hp VFD for $246 delivered 80% gave it 4 or 5 stars

You can't use a 7.5hp VFD to convert single phase to 3 phase. When you convert, you have to derate the VFD by about half, so you would need about a 15hp VFD to run a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor on single phase.

 

[laser3kw]

We used a lot of the Brazillian made WEG industrial motors at my old place. I'd say really the only down side is that they're almost always cast iron, so they're super heavy.

We use, in some applications, the WEG "roll frame" motors with excellent success. They are built like others, steel plate rolled for the main frame, welded on foot.

I know little about this, but from the brief research i did on the internet it seems that a VFD is not ideal for a compressor because the motor is loaded at start-up. Also it seems they get very expensive over 3hp.

.

The VFD we use have specific "canned programs" just for air compressor use. Like mentioned above, it should have an unloader valve to ease start up loads.

 

[wanderer]

static converters are horrible. they start the motor on 3 phase then drop a leg while the motor is running. this can cause the motor to overheat since its essentially "single-phasing"

Please explain to me how this is any different than a single phase motor.

Every single phase motor I’ve been inside has a start capacitor wired to a centrifugal switch. When the motor comes up to speed it drops out the start winding. This does put more load on the reremaining windings which is why the pulley must be smaller.

 

[MattT]

The VFD we use have specific "canned programs" just for air compressor use.

Are those "canned programs" for recips or screws? Running screws on VFDs is becoming fairly common but I haven't heard of anyone doing it to a recip in a professional setting.

 

[MattT]

Please explain to me how this is any different than a single phase motor.

Every single phase motor I’ve been inside has a start capacitor wired to a centrifugal switch. When the motor comes up to speed it drops out the start winding. This does put more load on the reremaining windings which is why the pulley must be smaller.

Windings in a single phase motor are 180* apart vs. 120* for 3 phase. So running a 3 phase motor on single phase is kinda like running a 3 cyl gas engine with one plug wire removed. It'll run like **** and won't make full power.

 

[American Locomotive]

Please explain to me how this is any different than a single phase motor.

Every single phase motor I’ve been inside has a start capacitor wired to a centrifugal switch. When the motor comes up to speed it drops out the start winding. This does put more load on the reremaining windings which is why the pulley must be smaller.

A single phase motor has a primary (run) winding designed to carry the entire rated power of the motor. The start winding is a small auxiliary winding just to create a slight offset to get the motor spinning.

A 3 phase motor has a single primary (run) winding, and no start winding. When you "single phase" a 3-phase motor, you effectively lose 1/3rd of the primary on a "Y" wound motor. Since you've lost so much of the primary winding, the remaining functioning winding has to work much harder at a given load. So this means you lose 1/3rd of your power.

 

[walta]

You can't use a 7.5hp VFD to convert single phase to 3 phase. When you convert, you have to derate the VFD by about half, so you would need about a 15hp VFD to run a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor on single phase.

Remember the 7.5 HP motor is a spare and compressor has the 5 HP 3 phase motor and I recommended a 7.5 HP drive with a 5 HP motor. The 10 HP drive is only $40 more at $286, I think that is over to top for a 5HP motor.

I was surprised to find the manual for this drive listed the same output capacity for both single and 3 phase inputs for some drives.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077KY3W2P/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Walta

 

[Norcal]

Remember the 7.5 HP motor is a spare and compressor has the 5 HP 3 phase motor and I recommended a 7.5 HP drive with a 5 HP motor. The 10 HP drive is only $40 more at $286, I think that is over to top for a 5HP motor.

I was surprised to find the manual for this drive listed the same output capacity for both single and 3 phase inputs for some drives.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077KY3W2P/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Walta

Not been hearing much good about that brand, no tech support to speak of, and when something is that low priced there has to be a reason and probably too good to be true. You pay your money, it takes a dump and get to do it all over again.

 

[alfredeneuman]

It says it's wired for 220 too.

 

[Norcal]

It says it's wired for 220 too.

It’s ChiCom garbage anyway.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Baldor was bought out by ABB several years ago. I think some of its manufacturing moved to Mexico.

 

[Norcal]

Baldor was bought out by ABB several years ago. I think some of its manufacturing moved to Mexico.

ABB owns T&B plus GE distribution & controls too.

 

[like2wheel]

Remember the 7.5 HP motor is a spare and compressor has the 5 HP 3 phase motor and I recommended a 7.5 HP drive with a 5 HP motor. The 10 HP drive is only $40 more at $286, I think that is over to top for a 5HP motor.

I was surprised to find the manual for this drive listed the same output capacity for both single and 3 phase inputs for some drives.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077KY3W2P/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Walta

I just read all the q&a's along with the reviews, & I gottta admit it would be pretty cool to have a soft start & to be able to dial the rpm up or down depending on need.
If you can believe the reviews, it seems like they solved the problems I read about before.

 

[cbacres]

On the 3 phase starter, you may have to change the coil depending what voltage it is now, also, from what I've run across only using 2 poles instead of the 3 may cause the overload to trip out because some senses the lose of a leg. There a way to bypass this. I wish I could tell you exactly, I just remember coming across this when searching for a new starter for my compressor.

Some of the guys here probably know what I'm talking about.

Just something to be aware of.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

On the 3 phase starter, you may have to change the coil depending what voltage it is now, also, from what I've run across only using 2 poles instead of the 3 may cause the overload to trip out because some senses the lose of a leg. There a way to bypass this. I wish I could tell you exactly, I just remember coming across this when searching for a new starter for my compressor.

Some of the guys here probably know what I'm talking about.

Just something to be aware of.

Thats easy to fix.

Connect a jumper from center motor terminal below overload block to line 3 on top of the contactor.

 

[welder4956]

I visited the WEG factory in Santa Catarina, Brazil about 10 years ago. They make as much of the material as possible that goes into their motors. They make their own paint, pour aluminum, brass and copper, draw the wire used in the windings, fabricate motor frames and housings. They made several large 6000 hp booster fan motors for us. The factory is located in a small town and I believe was started as a partnership by 3 men many years ago and the original families have retained ownership and operation. It was a really clean factory and high tech robotics assembly on the small fractional hp motors.

 

[wimpy525]

Just ordered a new WEG 5hp 1750 on E-bay for $344 with free shipping for my compressor project. The company I work for builds shotblasting equipment and we have been using WEG's for some time, some customers insist on Baldor. I have had more Baldors fail than WEG's as of recent.

 

[Green Power]

I have a Quincy 7.5 compressor with a weg on it and has been trouble free for 3 yrs now.

 

[like2wheel]

A lot of good info here, thanks to all who posted.

Sounds like I should have a talk with my Quincy about getting a Brazilian.