New construction or Remodel recessed can lighting?

[BIMMERBOYZ]

This is my situation, I am an Industrial Electrician, and have done little residential. Currently doing the rough in on new construction. I’ve considered running the romex to the lights location and coming back after the dry wall and using remodel cans.

Thoughts?

Remodel cans
Pros:
Saves on labor and patch work from the sheet rockers. (We’ve all seen them roto zip around cans)
Easier install, as the sheet rock is supporting the can, vs trying to get the dinky metal new construction cans to be sturdy.


Cons:
Will the AHJ, have an issue with this?
Remodel cans seem to be slightly more expensive.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Why use cans at all? Why not use the puck lights?

 

[BIMMERBOYZ]

Why use cans at all? Why not use the puck lights?

This I’ve also considered.

 

[cybrdyke]

Wafer lights. https://www.liteline.com//20000067-pf_slmluna/slim-classic/luna-slimled/filter=3000041761

Bring the romex to the driver box and make your connection. Dont attach the light source until drywallers are done, and then just snap it in. AHJ will understand what you did.
CD

 

[Terry D]

I have done it both ways, but I would use new construction cans.

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[lolaetype]

I've got a 12' ceiling in a two car garage, 20' X 20'. I installed 6 can lights, each using a "65" watt LED flood, about 800 lumens each. There is attic above the garage so I had easy access to install new constructions fixtures. If I were doing it again I'd install at least two more cans. You can't have too much light in the garage, IMHO.

 

[walta]

Can lights are basically holes in your ceiling designed to allow the conditioned air to escape your building while displacing your insulation. In short they are energy nightmares.


I like the surface mount lights that mount to a standard round box fast and cheaper than any can. They do hang down about a inch.

https://www.takethreelighting.com/n...1O61OmhTs61jlb7GSFEHLBvhdi522kBgaAr9tEALw_wcB


Walta

 

[Bert_]

If a customer wants can lights in new construction I install a regular can. I can still get trims to fit cans made 40 years ago. Not real sure if i could get a puck light that fit the same hole in even 5 years. I'm not putting in stuff that won't have parts available in a few years.

The surface mount ones are good for some applications but not something I would light a whole room with if I could help it.

As far as new construction vs remodel, I wouldn't even consider remodel. Yes the rockers might mis cut a couple but the tapers can fix that right up. Sometimes I make a point to stop by after the sheetrock is up and point out any issues. Good time to notice a missing box that got buried also.

 

[walta]

Bert I see no difference in the light distribution of the surface mount and the cans.

Anyplace a can will work so will a surface mount.

Care to say why you would not want to do the whole room or house?

Have you tried a surface mount in the last 2 years?

Walta

 

[yeldogt]

Bert I see no difference in the light distribution of the surface mount and the cans.

Anyplace a can will work so will a surface mount.

Care to say why you would not want to do the whole room or house?

Have you tried a surface mount in the last 2 years?

Walta

The surface are ugly and it's bad light in a residence -- The OP does not specify.

 

[Dave Nelson]

Can lights are basically holes in your ceiling designed to allow the conditioned air to escape your building while displacing your insulation. In short they are energy nightmares.


I like the surface mount lights that mount to a standard round box fast and cheaper than any can. They do hang down about a inch.

https://www.takethreelighting.com/n...1O61OmhTs61jlb7GSFEHLBvhdi522kBgaAr9tEALw_wcB


Walta

Do you think this type of fixture based on a rating of 1000 lumens each could be used to sufficiently light a 2 car garage with a 11' ceiling if spaced correctly?

 

[yeldogt]

OP -- is this for your residence or a garage?

Cybrdyke linked to a modern version of a medium depth can -- the LUNA series ..not the slim series.

There is still a place for installed housing prior to drywall -- I'm using a bunch of them in my new build. It's still the only way to get an invisible bulb look with adjustment -- small aperture.

The linked type has really improved over the past couple years and for many applications they are the perfect solution -- adjustability with reduced glare of a small can. Most are not able to be re-lamped.

If you want a really deep bulb placement the housing type are the only way to go ..

The surface mounted are not a nice light -- like little suns all over the ceiling

 

[yeldogt]

Do you think this type of fixture based on a rating of 1000 lumens each could be used to sufficiently light a 2 car garage with a 11' ceiling if spaced correctly?

my memory is a 100w incandescent halogen bulb is about 1500-1600 lumens. The linked are 1050 ....

 

[BIMMERBOYZ]

I’ve pretty much decided on this can. It’s for a bedroom above the garage.

 

[mike93lx]

After using a bunch of wafers, there is zero chance I would put a can in.

I just pulled 4 6" Halo cans yesterday to swap with wafer. Cheaper, you can install them anywhere you can get a wire to, insulation contact, gasketed, selectable color temp dimmable and a wide throw.

 

[yeldogt]

I’ve pretty much decided on this can. It’s for a bedroom above the garage.

They are showing to have 600 lumens -- so somewhere between 50-60W halogen equivalent.

They also show 5 year warranty ..... The issue that often does occur when one goes -- you can't match the light output with a replacement. If you end up doing many ...buy an extra.

 

[yeldogt]

After using a bunch of wafers, there is zero chance I would put a can in.

I just pulled 4 6" Halo cans yesterday to swap with wafer. Cheaper, you can install them anywhere you can get a wire to, insulation contact, gasketed, selectable color temp dimmable and a wide throw.

If you want a hidden bulb -- just the light .... the wafers don't cut it.

The point is to hide the light with no glare ..

 

[mike93lx]

If you want a hidden bulb -- just the light .... the wafers don't cut it.

The point is to hide the light with no glare ..

I have no glare issues with my wafers.

 

[yeldogt]

I have no glare issues with my wafers.

The wafers are on the surface -- you see the point of light. That's the glare ... They make huge panels that look like a skylight -- low lumens per inch.

Any surface mounted light has the potential ..

 

[Bert_]

If you want a hidden bulb -- just the light .... the wafers don't cut it.

The point is to hide the light with no glare ..

^this guy gets it.

The whole point of a recessed can is to recess the light source so it's not visible unless you're underneath it. The wafer lights cannot replicate this.

I've used plenty of wafer lights in the last several years. They make great closet lights. I've used them on a couple porches also. No way would I use them all over a house. Not to mention the 60hz flicker from some of them is horrible.

 

[quattro_sinko]

I’ve pretty much decided on this can. It’s for a bedroom above the garage.

Take a seriously hard look at these. I've installed over 150 of them in the last 2 years. Although I didn't see it on the packaging, calling tech support they informed me that they are IC rated. No can, no housing, easy installation, long (supposed) lifespan, and inexpensive to buy and to operate:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VTNCQ4F/?tag=atomicindus08-20

PS: you WILL need dimmers

 

[mike93lx]

The wafers are on the surface -- you see the point of light. That's the glare ... They make huge panels that look like a skylight -- low lumens per inch.

Any surface mounted light has the potential ..

I'm not looking to argue with someone across the internet about how much glare the lights in my living room, bedroom and bathroom have. Feel free to skip on wafers if they don't work for you.

 

[yeldogt]

I'm not looking to argue with someone across the internet about how much glare the lights in my living room, bedroom and bathroom have. Feel free to skip on wafers if they don't work for you.

I'm not arguing .....

Typically -- if someone wants cans ... they want a recessed light. Directional bulb .. maybe even rotation.

The ones you discussed are surface mount -- it's a completely different light/ application.

 

[Max]

I just put two low profile LED lights in the MBR. They work great for the application - reading lights above the bed. Combined with a Lutron wireless switch they are perfect for our needs.

But as others have noted, you can see the light source from anywhere in the room. For me, I would not put this kind of light as the main light, as I personally prefer a recessed can light. Whatever works for you is great, but one should be aware of all the trade-offs before going down the low profile pth.

Max

 

[quattro_sinko]

All pics are examples of flush mount super thin (1/2”) LED “cans”

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961378&stc=1&d=1577666513

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961379&stc=1&d=1577666513

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961380&stc=1&d=1577666513

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961381&stc=1&d=1577666513

 

[mike528]

All pics are examples of flush mount super thin (1/2”) LED “cans”

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961378&stc=1&d=1577666513

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961379&stc=1&d=1577666513

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961380&stc=1&d=1577666513

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=961381&stc=1&d=1577666513

any links to these cans? or what make and model? im finally getting around to finishing my garage ceiling and need to do some kind of low profile high fill light above the garage doors. the single tube style 8' fixtures i dont think will fit between the door and the ceiling.

 

[quattro_sinko]

any links to these cans? or what make and model? im finally getting around to finishing my garage ceiling and need to do some kind of low profile high fill light above the garage doors. the single tube style 8' fixtures i dont think will fit between the door and the ceiling.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VTNCQ4F/?tag=atomicindus08-20

link is for 2700K lumen. there should be 3000, 4000, and 5000k versions that are linked at the bottom of the amazon page.

Also, take a look at these:
https://www.lightup.com/premium-2ftx-4ft-flat-panelled-48watt-dimmable-6000lumens.html

Not quite as low profile and easy an install as the cans, mounting them will take a little thinking, but they throw out some light. The panels I bought (both 2x2 and 2x4) have the drivers permanantly mounted to the back of the fixture/panel. The cans have separate drivers connected via a wire. Drivers can be tucked into the can hole before the "cans" are clipped into place.

Edit: panels can be flush mounted, the "not quite as low profile" refers only to the drivers bumping out on the back of the panel

 

[Max]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VTNCQ4F/?tag=atomicindus08-20

link is for 2700K lumen. there should be 3000, 4000, and 5000k versions that are linked at the bottom of the amazon page.

Also, take a look at these:
https://www.lightup.com/premium-2ftx-4ft-flat-panelled-48watt-dimmable-6000lumens.html

FWIW, there is a typo on the Amazon page or a problem with these lights. The lights say 850 lumens and “equiv to 100W”. If the lumens are correct, it’s more like a 50-60W bulb. If the wattage is correct, it should be more like 1600-1700 Lumens. YMMV.

- Max

 

[pentavolvo]

Take a seriously hard look at these. I've installed over 150 of them in the last 2 years. Although I didn't see it on the packaging, calling tech support they informed me that they are IC rated. No can, no housing, easy installation, long (supposed) lifespan, and inexpensive to buy and to operate:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VTNCQ4F/?tag=atomicindus08-20

PS: you WILL need dimmers

I’ve installed these in numerous homes as well and love them

 

[quattro_sinko]

FWIW, there is a typo on the Amazon page or a problem with these lights. The lights say 850 lumens and “equiv to 100W”. If the lumens are correct, it’s more like a 50-60W bulb. If the wattage is correct, it should be more like 1600-1700 Lumens. YMMV.

- Max

I'll ask my electrician this week, I can say with certainty that the 2700k lights are closest temperature/color-wise to incandescent, but way brighter than a 60w bulb. Thanks for pointing this inconsistency out

I’ve installed these in numerous homes as well and love them

Glad I'm not the only one. I have no skin in the light fixture business, and for the life of me can't figure out why these aren't everywhere, going into every new home, every addition, and every remodel.

Sorry about the threadjack OP. Good luck with your selections.

 

[cybrdyke]

FWIW, there is a typo on the Amazon page or a problem with these lights. The lights say 850 lumens and “equiv to 100W”. If the lumens are correct, it’s more like a 50-60W bulb. If the wattage is correct, it should be more like 1600-1700 Lumens. YMMV.

- Max

The comparison is between the 850 lumen fixture and a 100w incandescent lamp in a recessed can. Even though the 100w incandescent lamp is emitting 1650 lumens, only about half of them make it out of the can due to the design. Hence the equivalency claim.
But....You wouldn't use a 100w incandescent lamp in a recessed can in the first place. The correct lamp was a 65w BR30 lamp, which only produces 650 lumens.
These inconsistencies in Amazon ads for cheap lighting products are because the sellers dont have any idea what it is that they're selling or how they're supposed to be used.
CD

 

[yeldogt]

I'll ask my electrician this week, I can say with certainty that the 2700k lights are closest temperature/color-wise to incandescent, but way brighter than a 60w bulb. Thanks for pointing this inconsistency out



Glad I'm not the only one. I have no skin in the light fixture business, and for the life of me can't figure out why these aren't everywhere, going into every new home, every addition, and every remodel.

Sorry about the threadjack OP. Good luck with your selections.

The reason some (me) don't like them is they are really general lighting -- not task lighting. Looking at the pictures -- the light is at the ceilings and all over the cabinets/ room. With a good recessed the counters and sink get the light ... not the whole room.

As max pointed out -- if that's what you are looking for fine.

Your picture with them dimmed is another problem -- no light at the floor. I like layered light .. a nice surface or hanging for general and true recessed.

The OP has not been back .. people say "can" today and it an be various lights

 

[Max]

The comparison is between the 850 lumen fixture and a 100w incandescent lamp in a recessed can. Even though the 100w incandescent lamp is emitting 1650 lumens, only about half of them make it out of the can due to the design. Hence the equivalency claim.
But....You wouldn't use a 100w incandescent lamp in a recessed can in the first place. The correct lamp was a 65w BR30 lamp, which only produces 650 lumens.
These inconsistencies in Amazon ads for cheap lighting products are because the sellers dont have any idea what it is that they're selling or how they're supposed to be used.
CD

Thank you CD for a clear explanation.

Max

 

[b-boy]

Do you think this type of fixture based on a rating of 1000 lumens each could be used to sufficiently light a 2 car garage with a 11' ceiling if spaced correctly?

You'd need a lot of them. Especially at 11'.

I have a 7' high, 40'x7' loft, and I have 9 of these under the loft. They put out enough light to see, but they're too dim to do any detail work.

 

[b-boy]

If a customer wants can lights in new construction I install a regular can. I can still get trims to fit cans made 40 years ago. Not real sure if i could get a puck light that fit the same hole in even 5 years. I'm not putting in stuff that won't have parts available in a few years.

The surface mount ones are good for some applications but not something I would light a whole room with if I could help it.

As far as new construction vs remodel, I wouldn't even consider remodel. Yes the rockers might mis cut a couple but the tapers can fix that right up. Sometimes I make a point to stop by after the sheetrock is up and point out any issues. Good time to notice a missing box that got buried also.

Agree with this. I like regular cans, because I can use any type of bulb I want. I'm not limited to LED or incandescent. Combine that with an LED dimmer, and you're good to go.

If an LED bulb burns out, I buy a new bulb. If one of these surface mount fixtures burns out, I have to get a whole new fixture. Good luck finding one that matches after 3-5 years.

I had this problem in my kitchen. Luckily, I bought a few spare LED fixtures, so I was able to replace it with an identical fixture.

My garage has 2 types of surface mounts in it. 3 that I bought 2 years ago, and 6 new ones. I was unable to match the old ones after only 2 years. They're close, but it's still noticable, but since it's a garage I'm not too concerned.

 

[nmk_61802]

Can lights are basically holes in your ceiling designed to allow the conditioned air to escape your building while displacing your insulation. In short they are energy nightmares.





I like the surface mount lights that mount to a standard round box fast and cheaper than any can. They do hang down about a inch.

I get what you are saying, however a round box in the ceiling can be just as big of an air loss. The key to both the round box and can light is properly sealing the penetration. To each is own on the lighting choice, it just seems like the air loss reasoning is not 100% valid.