Aftercoolers, Air dryers and Metal Piping to Condense the Water

[MrMark]

I am considering either an aftercooler or a refrigerated dryer and I am trying to go thru all the questions of which would work best for me.

I can't run cooper line all over the place to create a cooling system because it doesn't make sense for me. I only want one drop. I want a filter/regulator on the wall and a quick connect to plug in an air hose. That's it. But I need to get the water to condense out of the air before it hits that filter and a length of rubber hose isn't going to get that done. I imagine a coil of cooper would get it done but it would have low spots in it that would not drain.

Even if you could rig a coil of cooper without low spots, like in a spiral vertical spring configuration, you are still going to need cooling fins and a fan to make the most of it. Of course, you could mount it in an ice chest and fill it with ice and have the baddest *** water separator of all time. Maybe for the home mechanic to paint a car this would be the best ever. But for occasional air tool use, impractical.

There is a device called the Astrocooler that would be ideal for my application, but it is ridiculously overpriced.

This leads me to the refrigerated dryer which can be obtained more cheaply, but need to be run for a while before use and consume too much electricity to leave running when not in use, which will be 99 percent of the time. The other problem I see with the refrigerated dryer is that the inlet air temp is usually limited to around 120 degrees. I would be feeding the dryer almost straight out of my compressor tank and I am concerned about the temp. It seems to me that the temp of the air out of the tank would be quite high on a high demand application and that is where you really need the cooling and water separation post tank.

If low demand, I am thinking that most of the water will condense out at the tank and not be a problem for most applications. After all the tank is a giant expansion vessel and the air will rapidly expand and cool as it hits the tank. I would be interested in any information on the temperature drop of the air at the tank.

I would also be interested in anyone who has an IR temp gun and a metal piped system to take a temp reading on the air coming out of the compressor tank and then again at a remote metal piped air drop. I would like to see how much the metal pipe system you have drops the temp as this is its measure of efficiency. Might as well take the temp out of the pump head as well for a total picture of what is going on.

So what is the best way to deal with this situation, where I just want a short whip hose to some sort of device, to cool the air and then to the filter/regulator? I mean the people that run the cooper all over their garage are essentially creating a poor man's aftercooler is all, so my thinking is that for those that do not need the drops located all over the place, let's use a real aftercooler or dryer and not the cluge cooper piped aftercooler.

Does this make sense?

Comments?

 

[MrMark]

Maybe where I am going with this is that I would need some form of an aftercooler (either real or cluge pipes running on the wall) to get the temp down for the refrigerated dryer. If that is the case, it leads me to think that the aftercooler (radiator with fan) is basically what I need and to ditch the refrigerated dryer idea (with its attendant cost of operation and problem of starting it ahead of actual use) and just go with the aftercooler and a point of use dessicant when doing some painting?

I just can't find a decent and reasonably priced aftercooler. And if I were to try to make one out of an oil cooler and a fan by the time I got done I would probably have as much in it as a manufactured unit at much lower efficiency. So if anyone knows of something like that Astrocooler that is reasonable that would be great.

I really like the aftercooler because it would be cheap to run (just a fan motor) and I could rig it to come on and off with the compressor IF mounted between the pump and tank OR if it was installed post tank I could just switch it on when I wanted to use air.

 

[MrMark]

Another thing I want to discuss with the aftercooler setup where the aftercooler is mounted between the pump and the tank, an ideal setup IMO, is does it make the most sense to separate out the condensate BEFORE it goes into the tank, so as to keep the tank dry, or to just let the water run into the tank and use an auto drain.

If separating out the water BEFORE it hits the tank, what is the best approach. Just a water separator or filter OR a drip leg/filter combination and the drip leg would probably have to have some sort of auto drain if the bulk of the water went in the drip leg, or if the bulk of the water flew over the drip leg and into the filter then the filter would have to have some autodrain. Probably only experimentation would reveal the answers here. Right?

 

[p1mlb03]

Another thing I want to discuss with the aftercooler setup where the aftercooler is mounted between the pump and the tank, an ideal setup IMO, is does it make the most sense to separate out the condensate BEFORE it goes into the tank, so as to keep the tank dry, or to just let the water run into the tank and use an auto drain.

If separating out the water BEFORE it hits the tank, what is the best approach. Just a water separator or filter OR a drip leg/filter combination and the drip leg would probably have to have some sort of auto drain if the bulk of the water went in the drip leg, or if the bulk of the water flew over the drip leg and into the filter then the filter would have to have some autodrain. Probably only experimentation would reveal the answers here. Right?

Here is my thread on this subject. I placed the cooler between the pump and tank, it works great. Lots of pics of the final install towards the end of the thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50946

 

[MrMark]

Here is my thread on this subject. I placed the cooler between the pump and tank, it works great. Lots of pics of the final install towards the end of the thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50946

I read your thread and it was the best thread on here about the topic of aftercoolers. I searched and read every thread on the subject and wanted to try and achieve some clarity on the topics. I was hoping you would jump in and give your comments on my questions.

The post you quoted is loaded with questions with your name on them!

 

[Industrial Concepts]

Another thing I want to discuss with the aftercooler setup where the aftercooler is mounted between the pump and the tank, an ideal setup IMO, is does it make the most sense to separate out the condensate BEFORE it goes into the tank, so as to keep the tank dry, or to just let the water run into the tank and use an auto drain.

If separating out the water BEFORE it hits the tank, what is the best approach. Just a water separator or filter OR a drip leg/filter combination and the drip leg would probably have to have some sort of auto drain if the bulk of the water went in the drip leg, or if the bulk of the water flew over the drip leg and into the filter then the filter would have to have some autodrain. Probably only experimentation would reveal the answers here. Right?

Check out www.gosuburban.com

 

[MrMark]

Check out www.gosuburban.com

I saw that. They sell the ASTROCOOLER for a small fortune.

They have the output of the ASTROCOOLER just fall into the tank.

 

[p1mlb03]

How about something like this? $59 bucks is cheap enough, then maybe hit the grainger site to find and fan and shroud set up to match it. Fab up some brackets to mount it and plumb it up, and your in business. I would install a water seperator with auto drain between the cooler and the tank.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Al-T...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[MrMark]

That is probably the best I am going to do. I wonder if I could mount that without creating any low spots for water to pool.

What is the difference between a "water separator" and a typical 5 micron filter?

Would a drip leg and a water separator make more sense or is that just unnecessary here.

Would the water separator sans drip leg be simpler and more efficient. So what you do is just let the water separator catch 100 percent of the condensed water. I am thinking that this is the best and that the drip leg would just create something else to drain?

Is this what you think?

You agree with keeping the water out of the tank, obviously.

Do you think you get more water out with your water separator than you would if you just dumped the output of the aftercooler straight into the tank and then drained the tank with an autodrain?

I'll bet that you must get more water with that filter ahead of the tank. If you didn't have it and just dumped the water in the tank, SOME of it is going to get blown downstream, whereas with your setup you are "picking" off every water droplet before it has a chance to get moved downstream. Of course there will be additional cooling in the tank and additional condensation there too.

I wonder how much water you get out of the tank?

 

[MrMark]

Do you agree that the aftercooler makes much more sense than the refigerated dryer for my simple needs - air tools and occassional light painting.

 

[p1mlb03]

That is probably the best I am going to do. I wonder if I could mount that without creating any low spots for water to pool.

What is the difference between a "water separator" and a typical 5 micron filter?

Would a drip leg and a water separator make more sense or is that just unnecessary here.

Would the water separator sans drip leg be simpler and more efficient. So what you do is just let the water separator catch 100 percent of the condensed water. I am thinking that this is the best and that the drip leg would just create something else to drain?

Is this what you think?

You agree with keeping the water out of the tank, obviously.

Do you think you get more water out with your water separator than you would if you just dumped the output of the aftercooler straight into the tank and then drained the tank with an autodrain?

As far as I know, the water seperator does not filter particles, only condensed moisture. I watch mine sometimes while it is running and the auto drain kicks in and spits the water out. I have the drain on the separator plumbed with clear plastic hose running out to the ground now. If you look at my pic, I have a drain at the lowest point in my plumbing. I can use it for a drain if needed or I can install my filter setup inline and use it for my sandblaster or any other need for air outside. I don't think you will have any issues with trapping water if you mount the cooler on it's side, plumbing the outlet side of the cooler on the bottom.

 

[MrMark]

Thanks! Love your setup. You really lucked out scoring that aftercooler for so cheap. How did you happen across such a deal?

 

[MrMark]

What is that suspension rig at the bottom? Looks different.

 

[p1mlb03]

Do you agree that the aftercooler makes much more sense than the refigerated dryer for my simple needs - air tools and occassional light painting.

Agreed, I looked at fridge dryers too. They will consume too much electricity for a home shop unless you use it daily. We have one at our race shop, they work great, but not practicle for home use, IMHO.

 

[MrMark]

The valve on the bottom is just a to drain that line, i.e, a drip leg, correct? Does anything ever come out of there on that leg?

 

[MrMark]

What is the model of that water separator unit you use. Looks nice.

 

[MrMark]

Is black iron ****** into brass cool? Just galvanized to copper that is the problem, right?

 

[p1mlb03]

What is that suspension rig at the bottom? Looks different.

Just a split ring with some all thread into a flange bolted to the concrete. I just added that to support the pipe, in case something hit it. That is the reason I turned the leg inboard toward the compressor in an attempt to minimize the chance of it getting hit.

 

[MrMark]

The valve on the bottom is just a to drain that line, i.e, a drip leg, correct? Does anything ever come out of there on that leg?

It pays to read! I see where you said you can use it as an outside port for sandblasting as well.

 

[MrMark]

I don't see any wires so I am assuming you are using a float type drain. How is your experience with that style vs. the solenoid operated ones?

 

[MrMark]

Is there an advantage to the water separator over the filter in this application. Is the water separator better at catching tiny water droplets than the filter would be? What I am wondering is whether there is some point where a designer switches to a water separator? How do they function as compared to a typical filter?

 

[p1mlb03]

What is the model of that water separator unit you use. Looks nice.

3/4 Dixon water separator with auto drain (part # F74G-6A-MB)

As far as i know there is no problem going either black Iron or Galvanized to copper.

As far as finding my cooler I was doing what you are doing now, trying to figure out what will work best for me. I was going to build something and started with google and ran across a link for grainger. No way I was going to make something better for less, so I jumped on it. I really like my setup, I have all the clean dry air I could want, I can hardly hear my compressor run when I'm in the shop and so far it has all been flawless. If you decide to use black iron pipe use plenty of pipe dope, or if you use tape use the yellow gas tape as it is much thicker then the white stuff. We had black iron installed at our race shop and the installer did not use enough tape and we had a few hisses in the shop. The team owner got fed up with it and called a plumber in to rip all the iron out and install copper. I went with copper because I did not want to thread pipe, to me, the copper is much easier to install. I'm sure others would rather do iron, so what ever works for you.

 

[p1mlb03]

I don't see any wires so I am assuming you are using a float type drain. How is your experience with that style vs. the solenoid operated ones?

So far so good, it opens and closes as needed with no intervention. I also have a valve in the bottom of the tank. It is off a truck air brake system. That is what that small cable running under the compressor is connected to. I just have to pull the cable to bleed off any moisture without standing on my head to unscrew a drain. So far, I have not had any moisture on the concrete under the compressor when I pull the valve. It works great, just let go of the cable to close the valve, simple and easy.

 

[p1mlb03]

Is there an advantage to the water separator over the filter in this application. Is the water separator better at catching tiny water droplets than the filter would be? What I am wondering is whether there is some point where a designer switches to a water separator? How do they function as compared to a typical filter?

My goal with the water separator is to remove as much water from the system as possible prior to dumping into the tank. I don't see much advantage to filter down to 5 microns between the cooler and the tank. I have particle/ desiccant filters closer to my tools to take care of that.