Breaker for shed electrical feed--can't find it!

[gastgarage]

Doing some re-wiring in a shed, and tried to find the breaker on the house main panel, with my GF flipping the switches. No luck.

Did she just miss one, or is there something I'm missing?

Thanks in advance

 

[BillK]

I would say either she missed one or someone did something really crazy and dangerous to get power to the shed

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Pull the front off the sub panel in the shed and throw a handful of nails in there, go check the main panel, the feed will be the one tripped. Wear appropriate PPE, it could be bright.

 

[MattT]

First thing check to see if you have a meter main outside. Shed may be fed from a breaker in it. If it turns out you've just got a meter can check there aren't any extra conduits going to it.

If you're checking voltage with a digital multimeter it's possible you're reading ghost voltage when the breaker is off. It'd be unusual to see this in residential but not impossible. Turning something on in the shed while you're testing will find that.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Pull the front off the sub panel in the shed and throw a handful of nails in there, go check the main panel, the feed will be the one tripped. Wear appropriate PPE, it could be bright.

WOW !!!

 

[theoldwizard1]

First thing check to see if you have a meter main outside. Shed may be fed from a breaker in it.

Pull the main in the house. If the lights in the shed are still on, it is getting power from somewhere else !

 

[sparky 1971]

I have seen it too many times to count. Someone may have fed straight from the meter and shoved the wires under the lugs along with whatever is feeding the house. Or, they may have stuck the shed wires under the lugs for the main.

Another possibility is that it somehow has wound up on two seperate breakers on the same "leg". I have run across this a couple of times and know other people who have seen it as well. Turn off all the breakers one at a time, but don't turn them back on. If the power eventually goes out to the shed, mark the breaker, but don't turn it back on. Turn on all the other breakers one at a time and see if one of those causes the shed to come back to life. If it does, try to find where that splice is that ties the two circuits together and split it.

You could also try to find where the shed power enters the house. Follow the conduit/cable to the panel, pull the cover off and see what is going on

 

[sparky 1971]

Pule the main in the house. If the lights in the shed are still on, it is getting power from somewhere else !

I hate shutting off mains. They sit forever without ever getting exercised, and once in awhile, they won't turn back on. One was a 400 amp Siemens at an apartment complex. Power company shut it off when the replaced a transformer. Wouldn't turn on. I believe my cost for the breaker was $1200.00

 

[larry4406]

Pull the front off the sub panel in the shed and throw a handful of nails in there, go check the main panel, the feed will be the one tripped. Wear appropriate PPE, it could be bright.

Wow indeed. What could go wrong....

 

[Sokoloff]

In our fraternity house, we were replacing a strip of track lighting and I was house manager (basically "phys plant"). No one could find the breaker for the lights, so I got up on the ladder, stuck a flat blade screwdriver in each track and crossed them, figuring I'd trip the breaker. ZZAAPPPP! ZZZZZAAAPPP! Three tries didn't pop the breaker but left a healthy-looking weld mark on the shanks.

Turns out someone had wired the feed for that switch and those lights from the incoming lugs on the main service panel. Zero over-current protection and the main feed was a 400A service for the entire fraternity house. We corrected it.

 

[Jim greengo]

Pule the main in the house. If the lights in the shed are still on, it is getting power from somewhere else !

What he said.
Or just plug in a gfi tester in the shed and hit the button.

 

[Jim greengo]

In our fraternity house, we were replacing a strip of track lighting and I was house manager (basically "phys plant"). No one could find the breaker for the lights, so I got up on the ladder, stuck a flat blade screwdriver in each track and crossed them, figuring I'd trip the breaker. ZZAAPPPP! ZZZZZAAAPPP! Three tries didn't pop the breaker but left a healthy-looking weld mark on the shanks.

Turns out someone had wired the feed for that switch and those lights from the incoming lugs on the main service panel. Zero over-current protection and the main feed was a 400A service for the entire fraternity house. We corrected it.

That's another possibilty.

 

[ard]

.

Another possibility is that it somehow has wound up on two seperate breakers on the same "leg". I have run across this a couple of times and know other people who have seen it as well. Turn off all the breakers one at a time, but don't turn them back on. If the power eventually goes out to the shed, mark the breaker, but don't turn it back on. Turn on all the other breakers one at a time and see if one of those causes the shed to come back to life. If it does, try to find where that splice is that ties the two circuits together and split it.

on

Been there done that.

Turned off all 120V breakers. Then clicked on one at a time (on, then off) found two breakers that would power the circuit. (First pass I leave the two poles alone.)

 

[klassenl]

I hate shutting off mains. They sit forever without ever getting exercised, and once in awhile, they won't turn back on. One was a 400 amp Siemens at an apartment complex. Power company shut it off when the replaced a transformer. Wouldn't turn on. I believe my cost for the breaker was $1200.00

I feel your pain. I went to replace one last year where it was mounted on a pole at the edge of a field. It was a non weatherproof switch and we had to use a rope to yank the contacts in and out before we replaced it.

 

[Alchymist]

Never had so much fun until we bought our current domicile. 1890's era - wired that style, some upgrading/additions, but...

Wound up installing a new 200 amp panel, lots of new wiring, etc. Cut out all the knob and tube stuff, eliminated as much of the old style cloth covered romex(?) as possible. A couple of circuits we couldn't replace got GFCIs in series where it left the box.

Two serious gotchas were found - top of the stairs had a light with three way switches, one at the top of the stairs, and the other in the kitchen a room away. Took a while to figure this one out - the three way switches were wired to alternately switch hot and neutral back and forth. Finally figured it out and moved the kitchen switch to the bottom of the stairs.

Last one was the 3 car garage was fed from a splice in an external junction box (looks like a gutted early main panel), up through a hole in the roof and across to a hole in the (detached) garage wall, fed with 12-2 romex. Inside outlets and lights were daisy chained off this feed, and to top it all off, the idiot wired all the light switches to break the neutral.

 

[gastgarage]

Great advice (and stories) all, thanks. It's pretty amazing what people think they can get away with...

BTW, no sub panel in the shed.

 

[Platonic Solid]

This is how I found my breaker: (no subpanel here either - guess that wasn't code in 1920)

... Since the breakers aren't marked in the box (entirely my fault) I plugged in my 2 head 500W halogen work-light and used the infrared camera to identify the breaker.

 

[William Payne]

This is how I found my breaker: (no subpanel here either - guess that wasn't code in 1920)

That is a good idea and is actually used in industrial settings a lot to find electrical faults before they cause a serious problem.

 

[Bert_]

Never had so much fun until we bought our current domicile. 1890's era - wired that style, some upgrading/additions, but...

Wound up installing a new 200 amp panel, lots of new wiring, etc. Cut out all the knob and tube stuff, eliminated as much of the old style cloth covered romex(?) as possible. A couple of circuits we couldn't replace got GFCIs in series where it left the box.

Two serious gotchas were found - top of the stairs had a light with three way switches, one at the top of the stairs, and the other in the kitchen a room away. Took a while to figure this one out - the three way switches were wired to alternately switch hot and neutral back and forth. Finally figured it out and moved the kitchen switch to the bottom of the stairs.

Last one was the 3 car garage was fed from a splice in an external junction box (looks like a gutted early main panel), up through a hole in the roof and across to a hole in the (detached) garage wall, fed with 12-2 romex. Inside outlets and lights were daisy chained off this feed, and to top it all off, the idiot wired all the light switches to break the neutral.

The three way is known by several names, California 3 way is what I have called it. Both that and switching the neutral was extremely common in the early part of of the last century.

I would be more surprised to see the hot switched instead of the neutral with knob and tube wiring. It just the way it was done at the time.

 

[Bert_]

I've got an Ideal brand circuit tracer that works pretty well once you get used to using it. Has a transmitter that you plug into the outlet and the receiver that you wave over the breakers. It will light up and beap at the right one

 

[gastgarage]

So turns out the outdoor meter box has an attached box underneath that has individual breakers as well as the main breaker for the house. Now I understand why there's no main breaker at the indoor load center.

Interestingly, the box door had a tamper evident wire/plastic tag on it preventing access, which we cut. There's a separate tag on the meter itself. Seems odd that the utility would want to hamper customer access to breakers....?!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So turns out the outdoor meter box has an attached box underneath that has individual breakers as well as the main breaker for the house. Now I understand why there's no main breaker at the indoor load center.

Interestingly, the box door had a tamper evident wire/plastic tag on it preventing access, which we cut. There's a separate tag on the meter itself. Seems odd that the utility would want to hamper customer access to breakers....?!

its possible the meter tech didnt realize that the box was NOT a wire trough for the utility entrance wire

 

[Bigblockyeti]

So turns out the outdoor meter box has an attached box underneath that has individual breakers as well as the main breaker for the house. Now I understand why there's no main breaker at the indoor load center.

Interestingly, the box door had a tamper evident wire/plastic tag on it preventing access, which we cut. There's a separate tag on the meter itself. Seems odd that the utility would want to hamper customer access to breakers....?!

Was the tamper evident tag on the breaker box installed by the utility? I have a place for one on mine and the two breakers inside are for the outdoor condenser units. Given their proximity to the box, a dedicated disconnect for each is not needed. At any rate, the utility has the right to deny you access to their meter, they do not have the right to deny you access to your breakers.