Man Door Locksets

[Atlascycle]

I just moved to a new house and i am looking to replace all of the locks on the doors, at the last house I had purchased all schlage locksets because I like the function of having the ability to exit with out needing to unlock the handle but having the handle remaining locked. For the new house I bought all new Schlage F51 Locksets and soon found out that they unlock when opened from the inside.

Does anyone know of a lock set that works in the fashion that i am looking for?

Thank you in advance

 

[The Cobbler]

I know this doesn't answer your question, I would install deadbolts , not key in knob .
security is better & you can't lock your keys inside.

 

[CJ7VFR]

The only Schlage lock sets that I know of, that work the way you want them to, are the electronic door knob locksets with the keypads.

I have one of those on my house, and it works just like you said the ones worked at your other home. If you are inside, and the small knob is turned to the "Locked" position, the door will still stay locked after you leave the house. It will let you out, but you will need a key, or use the keypad to get back in.

I like this feature, especially when you have kids, who forget to lock the house when they leave!

If you do happen to come across any of the non-electronic keypad lock sets what work like your old ones did, make sure you come back and tell us! Good luck with your search.

Jim

 

[CJ7VFR]

I know this doesn't answer your question, I would install deadbolts , not key in knob .
security is better & you can't lock your keys inside.

Good advice, but not so great if your door has windows in it. A deadbolt like you describe is pretty useless when someone breaks the glass in the door and just reaches in and opens the deadbolt, or door knob.

No lock, deadbolt or otherwise, is ever 100 percent affective against someone who really wants to get into your home.

I tell my wife that locks on vehicles and houses are there to keep honest people out.

Jim

 

[nadogail]

"Store Room locks" are always locked from the outside when the doors are closed and a key is always necessary for entry.

I have them on gates that I don't want my tenants to leave unlocked.

 

[southalabama]

Hit jeffmoss up

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Nadogail is on the right path with his "storeroom" description. Most better quality latchsets may be set with any of a number of "functions". ( When I set "may be set" I mean by a locksmith, usually not by a novice. ) Lower quality, I mean less expensive, latches are what they are when you buy them and can't be changed.

The function name describes how it operates. A "storeroom" function set, is always unlocked on the inside, and always locked on the exterior. By always locked, I mean a key is necessary to operate the latch, but when you remove the key, the latchset is again locked.

The other most common function in a exterior door latch set is the "entry" function. These sets have a push button, or a turn knob, on the interior handle which can be used to lock, or unlock the exterior trim, or knob. A key cylinder on the exterior side allows a key to open the latch. the behavior of the exterior trim after the use of a key depends on the configuration of the set. Some latch sets remain locked after the use of a key, similar to a storeroom function, others become unlocked, until relocked by either operating the key in the opposite direction, or operating the interior push button or turn knob.

There are several other latch functions, but for the purposes of us garage guys, these two will be fine in most cases.




.

 

[Atlascycle]

Thank you Everyone for your Responses.
I have contacted a local Locksmith and he is telling me that he is checking on this. Unfortunately all of the local Locksmiths that i have done business with in the past have retired, one of which sold his business to a person that i refuse to do business with.

I am familiar with Storeroom locks, I was Maintenance Manager at a metal Stamping facility and was slowly working on changing out all of the locksets on the less used doors so the employees would not leave them unlocked. I do not want to have to use the key every time I want to enter the house. They must open from the inside without unlocking the knob.

Dead Bolts: my current home has 4 doors to be secured, the formal Front door is a 36" wide door that has a very strange 5" Offset for the Knob so that one will wait until I replace that door. There is a door into the kitchen that is 12 feet from the front door and is the one that we use the most but it has a window in it, the back door also has a window in it, and last the door from the garage that does not have a window.

Key pad locks do interest me but I would like to still have the option of opening with a key and the "design team" and I are having issues agreeing on a style.

if and when i hear back from the locksmith I will update.

 

[JRC3]

Good advice, but not so great if your door has windows in it. A deadbolt like you describe is pretty useless when someone breaks the glass in the door and just reaches in and opens the deadbolt, or door knob.

In my old garage I had deadbolts that needed keys on both sides. The garage also had 3 windows so a thief could potentially break a window for entry and grab one of the twenty phillips screwdrivers and drop the lock out to carry stuff out. So after installation I drilled out the phillips slots on the screws so a screwdriver won't grip them. Then the only option is to carry stuff out the 5' high windows or open the big overhead door making noise and being highly visible.

 

[yeldogt]

Storeroom locks don't have a way to keep the door from locking ... they don't have the unlock thumb turn inside.

Schlage has a newish entry level line that's widely sold at home centers -- it's junk .. as are all the entry level lines .. Kwikset etc. They all seem to work that way -- I guess so you don't lock yourself out.

Schlage still makes better lines .... I have the commercial line on my studio. Works the way the OP describes.

The new Baldwin line is also junk .... I just picked up some older NOS on e-bay. The older stuff was very good .. even the old images line they made in China is better vs the junk they sell today

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

In my old garage I had deadbolts that needed keys on both sides.

I'm not sure these are legal in houses. In case of a fire, trying to find the key could be deadly.

We had locks like the OP was looking for in our old house. Our young son got locked in the garage for several hours before we realized it and found him.

I like the ones that do not lock behind me.

 

[The Cobbler]

double cylinder deadbolts ( keys on both sides) are against fire reg's here for egress doors .
.

 

[Sherk]

I miss the locks that you could test to ensure they were locked. Nowadays if you move the handle it unlocks.

 

[longez]

Read this, and then look for Grade A-A-A locks at hardware and big box stores >>
https://securehome.org/

I work for ASSA ABLOY, and have been in lock manufacturing for over 30 years. I serve on BHMA's Board and Executive /Committee, and helped write ANSI/BHMA 156.39 and ANSI/BHMA 156.40. There are a number of good locks available for your application- look for the Secure Home logo on the packaging.

 

[yeldogt]

Read this, and then look for Grade A-A-A locks at hardware and big box stores >>
https://securehome.org/

I work for ASSA ABLOY, and have been in lock manufacturing for over 30 years. I serve on BHMA's Board and Executive /Committee, and helped write ANSI/BHMA 156.39 and ANSI/BHMA 156.40. There are a number of good locks available for your application- look for the Secure Home logo on the packaging.

So what is AAA ? I thought it was "grade" .. the last I looked what we all bought 20 years ago as a regular lock was not even available in many lines at the big box stores.

I thinking it was grade 2 .. and now everything is grade 3 ? Can't remember

My memory is all the low end Schlage stuff is the old Dexter line -- cheap. the whole knob wiggles ...just snap off the whole things?

 

[JRC3]

My memory is all the low end Schlage stuff is the old Dexter line -- cheap. the whole knob wiggles ...just snap off the whole things?

Pretty sure Schlage has two product lines. One is 'Schlage' and the other is "Dexter by Schlage". I have the later and it is not as good as all the regular Schlage locks that I encounter. Sadly I bought locking knob and deadbolt sets for all 3 of my entry doors and have had to pull a handle twice on one that binds and won't unlock. It got moved to the garage where it sees very little use.

 

[Jeepster04]

I'm not sure these are legal in houses. In case of a fire, trying to find the key could be deadly.

I've got a double dead bolt and I keep the key out of reach of the glass but by the door so you can open as needed. Works great but if kids/wife were around it wouldn't work. Key would end up wherever they put that sortve stuff.

 

[yeldogt]

I've got a double dead bolt and I keep the key out of reach of the glass but by the door so you can open as needed. Works great but if kids/wife were around it wouldn't work. Key would end up wherever they put that sortve stuff.

What many do is hang a key off of sash chain -- attached to the far jam. Long enough to reach the lock. With small pane glass door you can't reach it easily w/o taking out another window ... if you know it's there. You must use chain and attach the key so it's can't be removed .. that way it always going to be available.

 

[yeldogt]

Pretty sure Schlage has two product lines. One is 'Schlage' and the other is "Dexter by Schlage". I have the later and it is not as good as all the regular Schlage locks that I encounter. Sadly I bought locking knob and deadbolt sets for all 3 of my entry doors and have had to pull a handle twice on one that binds and won't unlock. It got moved to the garage where it sees very little use.

They make more than two ... I have the upper commercial line on my studio w/ the Primus keyway. They have at least two in that line ..

 

[JRC3]

They make more than two ... I have the upper commercial line on my studio w/ the Primus keyway. They have at least two in that line ..

I bet they make quite a few lines, I was mostly talking about the average residential locks. One thing for sure, when it comes to door locks you certainly get what you pay for.

With that said you can't beat a Kwikset for the price. They are cheap but they work and they work for a fairly long time.

 

[olytdi]

When I moved into my current house two summers ago, I replaced all of the deadbolt locks (two in house, one at well house, one at garage man door) and the 4 passage latches with grade 1 Schlage found here:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Schlage-Antique-Brass-Double-Cylinder-Deadbolt-B62N-V-609/202356812

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Schlage-Antique-Brass-Single-Cylinder-Deadbolt-B60N-609/202356803

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Schlage...-Keyed-Entry-Door-Knob-F51A-GEO-609/204834183

I also use this lock at the access gate to the driveway which can be keyed the same as all of the other locks:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZHD0FA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The beauty of this for me is, of course, one key for all locks across the property. Makes my life easier. Also, in the unlikely event that a key is stolen or misplaced, I can simply re-key everything again to a (new) same key. The keys are robust -- no bending.

The deadbolt lock quality is pretty good but the inside lever handle does feel a bit lower-end than I'd like. But it's plenty sturdy.

The passage knobs are standard and don't provide much in the way of security but are lockable and keyed the same.

I added steel deadbolt pockets in the jams, used deep 4 inch security screws on the jams, and added angle iron to the man door in the garage. No kicking in that door.

Once the shop build is complete, I can just add more keyed the same.

Anyway, just some ideas. The whole project cost around $300 or so.

Good luck!

 

[23ford]

Does anyone have info on the deadbolt handle that have fingerprint recon instead of a key?
Wife has a vision problem has trouble finding the keyhole............

 

[yeldogt]

When I moved into my current house two summers ago, I replaced all of the deadbolt locks (two in house, one at well house, one at garage man door) and the 4 passage latches with grade 1 Schlage found here:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Schlage-Antique-Brass-Double-Cylinder-Deadbolt-B62N-V-609/202356812

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Schlage-Antique-Brass-Single-Cylinder-Deadbolt-B60N-609/202356803

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Schlage...-Keyed-Entry-Door-Knob-F51A-GEO-609/204834183

I also use this lock at the access gate to the driveway which can be keyed the same as all of the other locks:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZHD0FA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The beauty of this for me is, of course, one key for all locks across the property. Makes my life easier. Also, in the unlikely event that a key is stolen or misplaced, I can simply re-key everything again to a (new) same key. The keys are robust -- no bending.

The deadbolt lock quality is pretty good but the inside lever handle does feel a bit lower-end than I'd like. But it's plenty sturdy.

The passage knobs are standard and don't provide much in the way of security but are lockable and keyed the same.

I added steel deadbolt pockets in the jams, used deep 4 inch security screws on the jams, and added angle iron to the man door in the garage. No kicking in that door.

Once the shop build is complete, I can just add more keyed the same.

Anyway, just some ideas. The whole project cost around $300 or so.

Good luck!

I did not like them ... they look like the old line. anyway the rekey system was interesting ... but ..I thought was not very robust. In the city they hit them with a big hammer and the handle comes off -- turn with a plier.

 

[longez]

So what is AAA ? I thought it was "grade" .. the last I looked what we all bought 20 years ago as a regular lock was not even available in many lines at the big box stores.

I thinking it was grade 2 .. and now everything is grade 3 ? Can't remember

My memory is all the low end Schlage stuff is the old Dexter line -- cheap. the whole knob wiggles ...just snap off the whole things?

Did you read this - explains that all resi locks now have three alpha grades . https://securehome.org/choose-your-ratings-combination/

Commercial are numeric grades, resi is 3 alpha characters. Look for A-A-A

 

[yeldogt]

Did you read this - explains that all resi locks now have three alpha grades . https://securehome.org/choose-your-ratings-combination/

Commercial are numeric grades, resi is 3 alpha characters. Look for A-A-A

I did ... and it seems self serving. I get that you work in the industry ... but they are rating stuff that's not very good .... very good.

AAA -- still seems questionable. I have examples of the new Baldwin and Schlage in my office currently .. and they are junk. And they are getting the better rating ??

As I said .. even the Image from Baldwin that was made in China 10+ years ago was a step down from the old stuff made in the USA. Unless you have them in your hand maybe it's not easy to tell. It was still decent (they don't make it any more). This new Schlage line is really cheap .. I'm surprised. it's really light

It's inexpensive ... got that going for it. The old deadbolts from Schlage used to cost $50 or so and the Baldwin much more ... So - it not surprising that you can't get much for <$40 today.

What's the point of a lock that can be so easily compromised? A couple of my rentals have been moved to a management company .... they brought the problem to my attention.

Most of my older ones use the Primus system -- and I just switch out the locks or cylinders to those that I have. The old Schlage SS locks last forever -- look like Satin chrome.

 

[longez]

Self-serving? Hardly. BHMA is the only Standards Development Organization (SDO) that is permitted to write ANSI standards for door hardware. BHMA is comprised of more than 60 hardware manufacturers, including ASSA ABLOY (Sargent, Yale, Norton, Emtek, Mul-T-Lock, Medeco, August, ..), Allegion (Schlage, Von Duprin, Falcon,...) dormakaba (Best Lock) Spectrum HHI (Kwikset, Baldwin, Weiser, Stanley,..) and 60 others. https://portal.buildershardware.com/membercompanies?&&reload=timezone

BHMA doesn't have any staff to write standards, the member companies write commercial hardware standards (Grades 1, 2 and 3) as well as residential hardware standards (Grades A, B, and C) under the ANSI/BHMA A156.** moniker. BHMA manages a Certification Program in which third party independent labs (like UL and ITS) test randomly acquired hardware to the A156.** standard, and determine if the hardware does meet the requirements of the ANSI/BHMA standard. The results are published in a real time, online, Certified Product Directory on the BHMA website. This isn't the manufacturer advertising "Hey, our stuff is great"; it's 3rd party attestation the product meets an established standard.

You can say you don't believe A156.39 or A156.40 provide adequate security, durability or finish, and you may be right for certain residential applications. Then, you may jump into the ANSI/BHMA 156.** standards for Commercial hardware (Grades 1, 2 and sometimes 3) . You pay your money and take your choice. I have no idea if the locks your are calling junk are rated A, B or C... or are even BHMA Certified product - but you can check here:https://buildershardware.com/Certification-Program/Certified-Products-Directory

The reason BHMA developed these 2 Residential standards, the standardized grading system and icon that is on the packaging of Certified products , and the Certification Program is to assist people like yourself in assuring the locks they purchase are meeting established performance standards for durability, security and finish longevity.

https://buildershardware.com/Portal.../156.39 HH 2019.pdf?ver=2019-04-09-105214-190

https://buildershardware.com/Portal.../156.40 HH 2019.pdf?ver=2019-04-09-105214-130

If you want more detailed information, you can purchase and download the full ANSI standard online, and read in excruciating detail exactly what testing Certified Products must go through - with ongoing annual testing for re-certification.

Most people want to replace their residential hardware with locks and locksets that fit the existing door prep - hence the relatively new BHMA residential standards. Many commercial locksets simply won't easily fit in an existing residential lock prepped door.

 

[yeldogt]

So what do you call it when a group devises a standard that is not really a standard?

I'm not trying to be argumentative

All of the locks in the Schlage line get the AAA/ best rating ... if you can snap them off with a hammer .. is that really a door lock?

That's all I'm saying ....

Reading the testing .. I have no idea if 5lb of force on the lever is very much -- or 600lb of force -- both seem low?

When I was a kid ... I think it was FORD. They had some crazy low number of key blank combinations. They rotated them around the country ... it came out because they discovered guys in NYC will all the possibilities ... they just tried them all until one fit and drove off in the car.

Is it a lock if all the keys are the same or it can be broken easily ?

 

[Showkey]

Love these lock conversations when it comes to actual security ..........the locks or latch is not the weak point........when the frame will yield witha kick or pry bar.

As far as man door on the shop or garage.........key pad lock that is always locked and can be open with key or key pad works just fine. Yes.....if the frame is wood the frame will yield not matter the lock or latch.

 

[longez]

So what do you call it when a group devises a standard that is not really a standard?

I'm not trying to be argumentative

All of the locks in the Schlage line get the AAA/ best rating ... if you can snap them off with a hammer .. is that really a door lock?

That's all I'm saying ....

Reading the testing .. I have no idea if 5lb of force on the lever is very much -- or 600lb of force -- both seem low?

I don't know what you're looking at, but it sure isn't A156.39 if you're seeing 5 lbf !. Tell you what, PM me your e-mail addy and I will e-mail you a pdf of the current version of A 156.39 for residential locks, and can you read all 40 pages of the testing and grades.

... if you can snap them off with a hammer .. is that really a door lock? If the door remains locked and secure after you snap off the handle with sledge yea, it might be a damn good lock.


This makes no difference to me; I have some Emtek, some Sargent, some Medeco and a few Mut-T-Lock on my homes, shop and hangar. I used to be one of the owners of Adams Rite before we sold the lock manufacturing company to ASSA ABLOY - been doing this for over 30 years, and there are no other standards in world more respected than ANSI/BHMA door hardware - except for a few govt' specs.

 

[CJ7VFR]

...Key pad locks do interest me but I would like to still have the option of opening with a key and the "design team" and I are having issues agreeing on a style.

if and when i hear back from the locksmith I will update.

All of the doorknob lockets with keypads also have a keyed lock tumbler in them as well.

They have to have this in order to be able to unlock the door incase the battery in the keypad goes dead.

I keyed the Schlage keypad doorknob lockset I have on my door the same as the regular Schlage lockset as the man door that goes from our breezeway into the garage.

I did this so I can use the same key to get into the house or into the garage. My wife loves to use the keypad on the house door because she can get the door open without having to struggle finding her keys in her purse when her hands are full.

Love these lock conversations when it comes to actual security ..........the locks or latch is not the weak point........when the frame will yield witha kick or pry bar.

Exactly. Any lockset, from the cheap ones to the most expensive ones are only there to keep honest people honest. Price does not matter one bit.

If a crook wants to get into your house, they will get in whether your lockset costs you $400 or $40. The better locksets may help stop petty crime, but not those who really want to get in.

Jim

 

[Pate]

The Schlage F line changed to the “unlocked’ function a few years ago. They make the A line which comes in 50 and 51 function. (stays locked with push and turn button) You will lose the fancy trim designs though. You may want to consider Emtek.

I’ve been in the lock industry my entire career and have the F line on the interior of my own house.

 

[longez]

The Schlage F line changed to the “unlocked’ function a few years ago. They make the A line which comes in 50 and 51 function. (stays locked with push and turn button) You will lose the fancy trim designs though. You may want to consider Emtek.

I’ve been in the lock industry my entire career and have the F line on the interior of my own house.

Although I may be biased since Emtek is an ASSA ABLOY company, I do know Emtek is now sharing technology with Sargent and Yale (sister companies), and benefits from some shared commercial grade components. I don't have any heartburn over China production, but every Emtek lock is assembled in SoCal from (mostly) foreign sourced components.

There are also good quality locks produced by our competitors Allegion, dormakaba, and Spectrum HHI - but you need to know what you are buying... hence my post about the new BHMA Residential Certified Product program.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

"Store Room locks" are always locked from the outside when the doors are closed and a key is always necessary for entry..

AKA "Closet" locksets.

Emtek entry locksets will do exactly what the OP wants.

Tommy

 

[Atlascycle]

Thank you Everyone for your responses. Lots of great information coming to the surface here.

I have yet to hear from the locksmith that I contacted last week. and the other local Locksmith I refuse to do business with because the guy is an ******.

I will have to explore my options in either the Schlage A-series or the Emtek and try to find the Style that will work with the Designers style.(that in its self is the major hurdle.)

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

I think I've told this story here before, but I'll tell is again to illustrate a point about latches, doors and door jambs.

A long since closed gun shop, near here had a history of burglaries. First, the bad guys would jimmy the latch, so the owner replaced it with a high end corrections set. Then the clowns decided to put a ( strong ) shoulder to the door leaf, and split is down the middle. Next the owner installed a steel door, but on the next break in, the jamb was destroyed.

Now the owner got really serious. He welded up a steel grill, made from rebar and angle iron, which covered the entire doorway and both jambs.

In the final burglary, the crooks brought a chain saw, they moved about 4 feet from the front door and cut a new doorway, 3' wide and 6' high.

The point is, if they REALLY want to get in, they will.

As a long time security consultant, I'll pass on the three "D's"

# 1: Deter - Make your premises look as "worthless" as possible, let the crooks go to a more attractive, or "richer appearing" target.

# 2: Delay - A relatively strong door system will slow them down a little, but it won't stop them.

# 3: Detect - Place a well designed alarm system in the premises so that as soon as the bad actors gain entry, the cops are notified.




.

 

[JRC3]

I have a 40v chainsaw...Never thought about making money with it.

 

[CraigStu]

I have the Schlage key pad deadbolt on our house. I would put at least one of them on one door. I am now retired and work on the house, cars, lawn etc. Change clothes often so I don't ruin the better stuff. May wear a coat in the AM but not need it in the afternoon. We are a bit paranoid and keep the house locked. I might leave a door unlocked if I am working right there. If I have the front door unlocked and walk around back the front door gets locked first. Why say all this ****? Because before using a keypad deadbolt I had to break into my own house several times when the keys were in the clothes that were inside.

 

[JRC3]

Why say all this ****? Because before using a keypad deadbolt I had to break into my own house several times when the keys were in the clothes that were inside.

Hide a key. My garage is detached but has a keypad garage door opener. Hidden inside the garage is a key to the house. There's also a less convenient key hidden in the house soffit.

 

[The Cobbler]

Why say all this ****? Because before using a keypad deadbolt I had to break into my own house several times when the keys were in the clothes that were inside.

Hide a key. My garage is detached but has a keypad garage door opener. Hidden inside the garage is a key to the house. There's also a less convenient key hidden in the house soffit.

yup. a key hidden in a strategic location, with a bit of finagling it fits one lock, then I have access to a key that fits all building locks