Help removing wire From Conduit

[AP514]

I have 7 wires in a 3/4 conduit going to my Garage. 3 wires are marked Spare and still taped together. I want the extra space to run fiber cable into the garage for Security Cams.
The run is about 60 foot in all. So I turned power off to the Panel in the Garage and gave the wires a pull but could not get them to move. wrapped them around a Bar and braced it lifting up.....No Joy..Blew Shop air thru conduit to house..Good air flow.
So I ran down to local store an got some line lube..Pumped about half the bottle total into each end but wondering how to get the stuff to run farther into conduit ?? (stuff is like hand Gel or thick Soap..not runny).
Note Wire 15 yr's old
I did note that the Gray conduit at base of wall was Heated up a bit to make the drop from panel line up from the sweep 90...A little bend but not bad.

I Need some help on removing this old wire...

Tips, Suggestions comments all welcome.

 

[Tink]

You could try to blow the line with air again to push the line lube further in and untape the dead wires and pull one at a time.

 

[AP514]

Ya real hard to get a good seal on the Air to opening in Box..Thinking about Spraying some Denatured Alcohol in the lines to help get that thick stuff Flowing.
But the 1 line at a time might be my next move....
I got to get the wires out some how.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

What makes up the 7 wires now? Can you not disconnect all the wires and pull out at once. Then repull what you need.

 

[The Cobbler]

yes, good chance you will have better luck pulling all of the wires out together . pull in a rope when you pull out the cables so you have something to re pullk new in.

 

[pizza]

what's the conduit made of? is it underground, outdoor?

i was in a similar situation trying to run beefier wires for a garage subpanel. buried metal conduit, detached garage, decades old. i yanked real hard from both sides. no dice.

i later learned that what i wanted to do is basically impossible. the conduit has almost certainly corroded out, and there's crud in there. i would guess the wires are essentially directly buried in earth in some spots.

it was real dumb to yank on them like i did. i'm lucky i didn't break them or something.

if your situation is like mine, i'm sorry to say that you should give up on your pipe dream of easily running new wire. you're gonna have to dig.

 

[AP514]

Opps it is 3/4 conduit..maybad.....Changed on OP

This is under ground (Gray PVC) it goes from the house to Detached Garage.
The 4 other wires go from C/B in Garage to a lite Switch in the House for Lites on the outside corners of Garage((Flood 3-way Switch))
Oh, and a shielded small 2 wire that goes from house to Garage Door.
Just wondering how much Tension I should need to put on these wires to get them moving ??
Thinking of using a 2-3 foot 2by4 and nailing the wire to it. Then I can use the 2by and lever it above panel to pull wires up and out wrapping them around 2by as I go..

Also can not DIG - 30 feet of concrete between House and Detached Garage

 

[AP514]

What makes up the 7 wires now? Can you not disconnect all the wires and pull out at once. Then re-pull what you need.

I was hoping to avoid pulling out ALL...Why is it Easier to pull all at 1 time then re-pull 4/5 in 1 direction and the Fiber optics in the other ??

The OM3 Fiber cable is kind of delicate....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was hoping to avoid pulling out ALL...Why is it Easier to pull all at 1 time then re-pull 4/5 in 1 direction and the Fiber optics in the other ??

The OM3 Fiber cable is kind of delicate....

Because they often get twisted around each other.

What type of fiber do you have? Armored? OSP? Indoor?

You might have to go with a wireless bridge instead

 

[AP514]

if wires are twisted around each other would they no want to come out with the other 3
I am pulling on ? As it is now nothing is moving...and the others have no tension on them.

Still wondering how much tension I need to get wires moving ?

 

[AP514]

Because they often get twisted around each other.

What type of fiber do you have? Armored? OSP? Indoor?

Um the Fiber is Regular not plenum.....So, I would say indoor.


Going to let Lube sit over night and try again in morning.

 

[mike93lx]

Will the end on the fiber fit through the conduit with other wires there anyway? I bet it will be tight and a thought pull

 

[walrus]

I'd try to pull one the spares out, just one. Try each to see if you can get one to move. Generally once you get one to move the others will start to move.

 

[Bert_]

If you're not going to pull all the wires then you need to do one at a time. Good chance it'll be easier to just pull everything out anyway. Less friction

 

[yatg]

You have the wrong fiber.
Sounds like patch cord. Aqua colored?
Too fragile to drag through conduit.

3/4 conduit is probably too small for pulling fiber.
On top of that you've got other wires with it and unknown conduit conditions.

Sure, you could pull all the wires out, clean and check the conduit (if you can't pull a 5/8" chaser easily from end to end in 3/4, there's a problem), get outdoor fiber, make a streamlined pulling head with the fiber piggybacked, and have an attentive helper feed while you pull. You want zero stress on the fiber, all the pulling is done to the NEW garage feed wires and the fiber is along for the ride. It might work.

The spare wires could be taped at intervals along the length, might be tough to pull just one out. Does anything move at the other end? Same result from pulling at either end? Did you dig down and check to make sure there's actually a sweep at both ends and not a hack job plumbing 90? If you pull too hard, even on the spares, you may end up damaging the garage feed then you'll be up poop creek.

Smart money says move on to Plan B.

 

[Terry D]

Ok, Im going to ask a stupid question, because I dont really have any experience with fiber. You can put that in the same conduit with power conductors?

Since this is a underground conduit, and possibly wasn't installed correctly. It could be filled up with dirt, mud, water. Sometimes water gets in and freezes, don't thing that's problem with the area your in. As already said, you may end up damaging the wire. I would try taking them all out at once, if they don't move, then they are not going to come out. Another thing to worry about, if you would get them to all come out, will you be able to get it back in there. If they are going to come out, they should come out fairly easy. How many bends does it look like could be in there

 

[rjacobs]

Ok, Im going to ask a stupid question, because I dont really have any experience with fiber. You can put that in the same conduit with power conductors?

yes because fiber is non conductive.


To the OP: pull it all and make up your new pull including the fiber.

IF you were just pulling the fiber in a conduit alone, you could go with the un-armored patch cord. BUT pulling with other wires(especially, my guess, solid copper wire) I would do an armored cable. And pull an extra run of fiber at the same time(you dont want to pull twice). Armored cable isnt that much more than regular patch cable.

FS.com is IMO the go to source for fiber.

 

[yatg]

Ok, Im going to ask a stupid question, because I dont really have any experience with fiber. You can put that in the same conduit with power conductors?

Definitely not a stupid question. Yes, as long as the fiber cable is nonconductive, i.e. no metal in the cable. BTW, armored fiber has either steel or aluminum as the armoring and can't be used in the same conduit with power conductors.

Here's a detailed explanation:
https://www.ecmweb.com/national-ele...nec-and-optical-fiber-cable-and-raceway-rules

The other question is how does the fiber exit the conduit? You can't take it through a panel, so add a junction box somewhere along the conduit before the panel and split it off there.

 

[Terry D]

Definitely not a stupid question. Yes, as long as the fiber cable is nonconductive, i.e. no metal in the cable. BTW, armored fiber has either steel or aluminum as the armoring and can't be used in the same conduit with power conductors.

Here's a detailed explanation:
https://www.ecmweb.com/national-ele...nec-and-optical-fiber-cable-and-raceway-rules

The other question is how does the fiber exit the conduit? You can't take it through a panel, so add a junction box somewhere along the conduit before the panel and split it off there.

Thanks for the explanation and the article reference.

 

[AP514]

Yes, Color Is Aqua.(non-Conductive-armor is) and yes it will be a real tough pull from house side....

So, I have Steel Frame house. From attic to switch in wall is all Blown in Insulation
The Conduit only comes half way up wall to Lite Switch in house. I alraedy have fiber down from attic to switch. had planed on piggy backing the Fiber on the end of 3 Spare wires as I removed them.
....From Garage to house is 2-Sweep 90's and a 50-60 foot run between the 90's.
I Blew Shop Air (not a good seal around where wires go in) But GOOD AIR FLOW(said this in OP).

Going to try again with 2by for leverage.(putting in some real *** into it) .If all start to move then Pulling ALL. if Still nothing will try 1 Spare wire(probably will break)

STILL No one has said how hard To pull to get started moving....

 

[Terry D]

Yes, Color Is Aqua. and yes it will be a real tough pull from house side....

So, I have Steel Frame house. From attic to switch in wall is all Blown in Insulation
The Conduit only comes half way up wall to Lite Switch in house.....From Garage to house is 2-Sweep 90's and a 50-60 foot run between the 90's.
I Blew Shop Air (not a good seal around where wires go in) But GOOD AIR FLOW(said this in OP).

Going to try again with 2by for leverage.(putting in some real *** into it) .If all start to move then Pulling ALL. if Still nothing will try 1 Spare wire(probably will break)

STILL No one has said how hard To pull to get started moving....May OP Question.

If its not stuck, moderate tugging on it should get it to move. Hardly any effort at all with just 2 90's and 60 ft distance

You are going to ruin the wire using a 2x4 for leverage

 

[AP514]

You can't take it through a panel, so add a junction box somewhere along the conduit before the panel and split it off there.

I did not know that THANK YOU.

TERRY D....."You are going to ruin the wire using a 2x4 for leverage."

I have no Problems with that as long As I remove it.


AP514

 

[Terry D]

What size are the wires? are they feeding your garage sub panel. Is this conduit over filled

 

[yatg]

Going to try again with 2by for leverage.(putting in some real *** into it) .If all start to move then Pulling ALL. if Still nothing will try 1 Spare wire(probably will break)
STILL No one has said how hard To pull to get started moving....

uh, definitely not that hard.

How about some pictures of both ends of the pull.

 

[Terry D]

I did not know that THANK YOU.

TERRY D....."You are going to ruin the wire using a 2x4 for leverage."

I have no Problems with that as long As I remove it.


AP514

You might damage the wire, and still not get it out. Then you are digging.

We need pictures

Im asking this because you say its going to a switch box it the house, If the power for your garage sub panel is also in here, could there be another J-box in your house. Plus if the panel wires are in there, it would have to be a pretty small sub panel

 

[nadogail]

Sometimes I have had to rig a mechanical puller, think boat trailer winch and sheaves.

 

[AP514]

Ask and you shall receive. PICs. Got the wires moving with the 2by....
I could not get some to stay so PULLING them All....About half way done pulling (in the Pics) using the Spare wires to pull with. As the pic shows the wires are now all tangled together.(probably why I could not pull the Spares separately).
I tore the hell out of the 3- switch box trying to knock out the plug (upper). I had to use my high speed and grind a hole in the box. You can see my Fiber Cable coming thru.(Yellow Tape) I will bend the Box back later. Cover plates do wonders )
Pulling easier now. The Line lube/Purell (as the wife calls it) is pouring out as I pull but still going to use 2by until done.

Question ?
1) I can reuse the wires(not the Spares/pulling ones) they are 12Ga. THHN
2) I also plan to pull wires and Piggy back the Fiber onto them from the 3 switch box to Garage good Idea or bad ??

 

[mike93lx]

I wouldn't use wiring that you had to pull that hard on. There could be conductor damage that isn't visible

 

[Toomanytools?]

Well good you got it out, I was told by a couple electricians not all wire lube is created equal. The stuff at Lowes "Ideal" wire lube will actually harden after use and get sticky that could have been part of the problem.

 

[Terry D]

Well good you got it out, I was told by a couple electricians not all wire lube is created equal. The stuff at Lowes "Ideal" wire lube will actually harden after use and get sticky that could have been part of the problem.

That is true.

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[AP514]

Well good you got it out, I was told by a couple electricians not all wire lube is created equal. The stuff at Lowes "Ideal" wire lube will actually harden after use and get sticky that could have been part of the problem.

Well, No it did not harden..but the bad News is that is what I used. I guess a sample left out on bench will let me know. If it does start to get Hard I will run something on the Cord I am going to pull Wire with thru the PVC a few times.

Also I can not go back in until next week..Due to just me and the Wife here ATM. Son will be home next week to help guide wire or pull while Wife is in attic unspooling the fiber cable.(making sure it does not tangle)

On a Side note the last 3 feet of wire on house side had a little bit of Gunk on it. Mud/Dirt/Dust ?? SEE PIC.
OHM'd the wire out going to reuse it.(old stuff)

 

[AP514]

The other question is how does the fiber exit the conduit? You can't take it through a panel, so add a junction box somewhere along the conduit before the panel and split it off there.

I was unaware of this...?? is it Code ??
I do not think it will interfere with the fiber cable transmissions...

 

[Innovate1]

Opps it is 3/4 conduit..maybad.....Changed on OP

This is under ground (Gray PVC) it goes from the house to Detached Garage.
The 4 other wires go from C/B in Garage to a lite Switch in the House for Lites on the outside corners of Garage((Flood 3-way Switch))
Oh, and a shielded small 2 wire that goes from house to Garage Door.
Just wondering how much Tension I should need to put on these wires to get them moving ??
Thinking of using a 2-3 foot 2by4 and nailing the wire to it. Then I can use the 2by and lever it above panel to pull wires up and out wrapping them around 2by as I go..

Also can not DIG - 30 feet of concrete between House and Detached Garage

What's the "shielded small 2 wire"? If that's low voltage it isn't allowed in the same conduit.

 

[Innovate1]

Well, No it did not harden..but the bad News is that is what I used. I guess a sample left out on bench will let me know. If it does start to get Hard I will run something on the Cord I am going to pull Wire with thru the PVC a few times.

Also I can not go back in until next week..Due to just me and the Wife here ATM. Son will be home next week to help guide wire or pull while Wife is in attic unspooling the fiber cable.(making sure it does not tangle)

On a Side note the last 3 feet of wire on house side had a little bit of Gunk on it. Mud/Dirt/Dust ?? SEE PIC.
OHM'd the wire out going to reuse it.(old stuff)

I don't think the lube will thicken much in a few days or weeks so your bench sample probably won't tell you much before you put things back together. I am guessing it's more like months or years so you really don't know until you need to take it out.

 

[AP514]

What's the "shielded small 2 wire"? If that's low voltage it isn't allowed in the same conduit.

It is 120v ?? for the Garage door opener. (not sure if Low Voltage)
It has been this way for 15+ years.

And as far lube hardening and removal later..lets hope this is it.

 

[pizza]

"ohming" the wire won't guarantee it's good

 

[wyliesdiesels]

"ohming" the wire won't guarantee it's good

Yup. Need to “meg” it

 

[pizza]

and ideally load test it while inspecting it with a thermal camera. lol

 

[AP514]

I could MEG it I guess....at 500 volts. Thermal Cam...LOL now that is Funny.

 

[rjacobs]

I was unaware of this...?? is it Code ??
I do not think it will interfere with the fiber cable transmissions...

I read through the website he linked to on page 1. It appears to be code.

770.113

You can run the non conductive(non armored) fiber in the same conduit/raceway as your conductive power cables. Thats allowed.

Then it breaks out the termination point(guessing ALSO applies to entry point) and says "Cannot occupy a cabinet, outlet box, panel, or similar enclosure housing the electrical terminations of an electric light, power, or Class 1 circuit — unless the nonconductive optical fiber cable is functionally associated with the electric light, power, or Class 1 circuit."

So you would have to pull, as was stated, the fiber out of the conduit prior to your breaker panel on one side or your outlet box on the other.