VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[Outlawmws]

Javie: I'm pretty sure Starrett always owned Athol and they didn't start putting their names on their vises til after WWII, but not sure when.

Great idea drivesitfar and you're right about Starrett being there from Day 1 - although there appears to be a short amount of time when Starrett wasn't involved with Athol.

https://visecollector.com/history-of-the-athol-machine-company/

I'm going to give it a shot today after work. Rusty, thanks for the info on the swivel.

Yes and No. Starrett may been with Athol, but he was run out. YEARS later he got control of Athol:

https://mivise.com/2017/01/such-an-athol/

In 1868 the Athol Machine Company was founded in order to produce a meat cutting device invented by Laroy Starrett. Within a few years, Laroy had patented a number of other devices, to include a line of bench vises. Before long Laroy and A.M. Co were on poor terms and Laroy was pushed out of the company. This prompted Laroy to start the L.S. Starrett Company, also in Athol, Mass, in 1881. Shortly afterwards a lawsuit and counter-lawsuit over patent rights ensued with Laroy ultimately victorious. A.M. Co. was forced to pay Laroy expenses and damages for years of patent infringement. That gave Laroy the funds to buy the A.M. Co as a subsidiary of his L.S. Starrett Co in 1905. In December of 1920 the name of A.M. Co was changed to Athol Machine and Foundry Company and it stayed that way until they ceased operations in 1963. From reading a number of articles about the event, it seems old Laroy got rid of the folks who forced him out, which is something of poetic justice!

 

[drivesitfar]

Bagged: very nice pictures and interesting vise and repair. thanks for sharing. BTW are you taking those pictures with your cell or a nice camera cause they are PURDY?

Outlaw: nice story and good to know. is MIVISE GMAN? i guess I didn't know Athol was nearly as old as Parker and Prentiss and I thought they started in early 1900's which was more in line with my thinking that STARRETT owned them. then changing the names (Athol removed and only Starrett) on the vises I guess in the early 60's or maybe he did that before. either way Athol or Starrett vises were and are one of the good vises ever made here in the USA.

 

[bagged89s10]

Bagged: very nice pictures and interesting vise and repair. thanks for sharing. BTW are you taking those pictures with your cell or a nice camera cause they are PURDY?

Outlaw: nice story and good to know. is MIVISE GMAN? i guess I didn't know Athol was nearly as old as Parker and Prentiss and I thought they started in early 1900's which was more in line with my thinking that STARRETT owned them. then changing the names (Athol removed and only Starrett) on the vises I guess in the early 60's or maybe he did that before. either way Athol or Starrett vises were and are one of the good vises ever made here in the USA.

Thanks Drives. Here is the Lewis vise as I got it. It didn’t look too bad but the swivel jaw and swivel base were just crusted with old grease. I have some work left to find out where the swivel jaw rubs and then I can put the vise back k together.


Here is the vise with clear over the sculpt nouveau black metal oil.




All the pictures are with an iphone Xs max. It has a great camera!

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Great write up & repair

 

[javie]

Javie: I'm pretty sure Starrett always owned Athol and they didn't start putting their names on their vises til after WWII, but not sure when.

Rusty is correct that your vise is old, but now i'm curious why its not turning 360 if he thinks it should.

if you might not have a drag link to remove the swivel's base i ground off a side of a big washer and used an eye bolt to hold it so i could get a little leverage on one of my vises. or some guys make a tool out of scrap if you have some welding skills.

holding the ground off washer in monkey or crescent wrench might work too.

Well, good news and bad news. The good, the base fully swivels. The bad is I cannot get that dang big bolt to budge using the washer method. I'm going to need to get a drag link and use an impact wrench...

 

[drivesitfar]

Javie: some of those bolts are not on very tight and others are rusted in place or cranked on. sorry the washer idea didn't work and hope you didn't round off the slot.

some of us use Kroil to spray in the threads and others try heat. the welders seem to make any tool they need so some pretty creative drag link type tools have been made. I actually might own 20 drag link sockets, but since I had a bunch of my tools in boxes and in another location that's when I used the washer type drag link.

some other welders weld on a nut on the bottom of that huge screw so they can get a regular wrench or crescent wrench to turn it.

good luck and glad to hear you have full 360 access. i'm guessing maybe something was stuck or out of place?

Bagged: when I got my iphone 8+ a couple years ago i thought that camera was pretty good, but your Iphone Xs takes it up a huge notch. are you still using that little smoker to bake on BLO or is that just in the cold months?

 

[bagged89s10]

Javie: some of those bolts are not on very tight and others are rusted in place or cranked on. sorry the washer idea didn't work and hope you didn't round off the slot.

some of us use Kroil to spray in the threads and others try heat. the welders seem to make any tool they need so some pretty creative drag link type tools have been made. I actually might own 20 drag link sockets, but since I had a bunch of my tools in boxes and in another location that's when I used the washer type drag link.

some other welders weld on a nut on the bottom of that huge screw so they can get a regular wrench or crescent wrench to turn it.

good luck and glad to hear you have full 360 access. i'm guessing maybe something was stuck or out of place?

Bagged: when I got my iphone 8+ a couple years ago i thought that camera was pretty good, but your Iphone Xs takes it up a huge notch. are you still using that little smoker to bake on BLO or is that just in the cold months?

I haven’t used blo in a while. the last 2 vises I restored with sculpt nouveau black oil which does not recommend baking or using heat to cure. It just takes a few days to cure and then I spray with their clear guard clear coat. it’s one of my favorite finishes.

 

[jtolbert]

So I figured I should update the story of my dad's very-old vise I started working on years ago. I build a nice electrolysis tank, but my dad was never hot on the idea of putting in more time on the old girl...He finally relented after months of pestering. I'll save you all the gory details, but pics of the de-rusted-and-paste-waxed vise are attached. It looks much nicer without all the surface rust. Dad is quite happy with the cleaned-and-waxed vise, too.

My Paramo No.5 is next up. I've decided that powder coating that thing would be a tremendous waste of electricity, cause the powder won't be as durable as a decent epoxy paint...So I'm going to get started on that soon. However, how do we all feel about sand-blasting vise parts? I can run the vise through my e-tank to get rid of most of the corrosion, but I'm thinking about blasting all the painted surfaces anyway for an even texture and better paint adhesion. Is that a Bad Idea for any particular reason? Thanks!

 

[javie]

I haven’t used blo in a while. the last 2 vises I restored with sculpt nouveau black oil which does not recommend baking or using heat to cure. It just takes a few days to cure and then I spray with their clear guard clear coat. it’s one of my favorite finishes.

Pics of the finish with the Sculpt product?

 

[bagged89s10]

the above lewis no 10 vise. Here are. edit and after pictures.

Right after evaporust.


After one coat of black metal oil.


after the second coat of black metal oil. I tried my best to file/sand off any finish on the lettering after I let this dry for a few days.


I let it dry for about 5 days and then sprayed 2 coats if clear guard clear coat.

this is after it dried.

 

[ganymede]

Well, good news and bad news. The good, the base fully swivels. The bad is I cannot get that dang big bolt to budge using the washer method. I'm going to need to get a drag link and use an impact wrench...

Dont forget to first remove the little set screw on the side of the main body.

 

[va.grouseman]

That is a beauty Bagged.---You didn't rush it and it payed off.

 

[drivesitfar]

Bagged: thanks for showing me (us) another option to BLO and it looks like it does look pretty nice.

Gany: set screw on the main swivel screw on an old ATHOL? not sure i follow cause I didn't know there was one there. or maybe you thought Javie was working on a REED that has the set screw holding the split nut in place?

JT: if you are planning on painting your vise I think sandblasting might actually be better and just be careful cause it will take some material off your old vise pretty quickly. My big Reed 4c was sandblasted prior to having about 3 light coats of BLO applied to it cause the member that owned it was planning on painting it until he sold it to me and I asked him to just wipe on BLO.

I have a few ideas and just wondering if you know who made the vise that you posted?

 

[jtolbert]

JT: if you are planning on painting your vise I think sandblasting might actually be better and just be careful cause it will take some material off your old vise pretty quickly. My big Reed 4c was sandblasted prior to having about 3 light coats of BLO applied to it cause the member that owned it was planning on painting it until he sold it to me and I asked him to just wipe on BLO.

I have a few ideas and just wondering if you know who made the vise that you posted?

Thanks; I'll probably blast it. I run fairly fine media---100/120 garnet---so it won't remove too much material. I'll mask off all the important contact areas anyway.

As far as who made the vise, there were some thoughts around page 258 or so that Prentiss was the manufacturer---by you, strangely enough!---but it was never conclusively determined. It's definitely old, probably pre-1920, but it has no maker marks anywhere.

 

[ganymede]

Gany: set screw on the main swivel screw on an old ATHOL? not sure i follow cause I didn't know there was one there. or maybe you thought Javie was working on a REED that has the set screw holding the split nut in...?

On a couple of Athol vises I've owned the shoulder screw under the main casting is locked in place by a set screw that goes in the side of the body of the vise.

 

[drivesitfar]

Gany: good to know and do you happen to have any pictures you can post of your Athol (or another one) and that set screw?

JT: since i have my posts per page set on 100 posts so I can read thru long or fast moving threads maybe putting up the post # would be better if you know where to find other pics on your old vise.

Since Prentiss made vises for a lot of companies they made a lot of vises without any name on the vise and those companies had boxes or maybe stickers with their names on them so I might have been leaning to them making your vise. that said that handle looks a bit beefier than what Prentiss made. if i recall correctly Prentiss made removable jaws in the late 1910's and since those are cast in jaws maybe your vise is a bit older than that. any #'s or letters on any parts of the vise?

good luck sandblasting and let us know how you like the results.

 

[Rlapointe87]

Need help identifying one I found online locally for sale I dont see a name on it just what looks like 150 stamped on one side. Looks like a york bullet but I dont see where it says york any help identifying would be appreciated thanks

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[drivesitfar]

RLA: i've yet to find a York vise to buy around here that was reasonable or not sold quickly so I can't say for sure, but that looks like a York or a good older copy of one. the handles look nice so maybe a Taiwan copy of a York?

the 150 should make it a 6 inch wide jaw which you might already have known.

if it wasn't too spendy I'd buy it if that helps.

 

[javie]

On a couple of Athol vises I've owned the shoulder screw under the main casting is locked in place by a set screw that goes in the side of the body of the vise.

Thanks for the reminder ganymede, I researched the disassembly elsewhere, too, and noted the set screw - which is really a substantial 3/8-in bolt with a flat screwdriver slot. I removed it prior to attempting to loosen the very large bolt holding the base on. I'm getting some Kroil today as the WD-40 rust breaker isn't 'breaking' much...

 

[jtolbert]

JT: since i have my posts per page set on 100 posts so I can read thru long or fast moving threads maybe putting up the post # would be better if you know where to find other pics on your old vise.

Since Prentiss made vises for a lot of companies they made a lot of vises without any name on the vise and those companies had boxes or maybe stickers with their names on them so I might have been leaning to them making your vise. that said that handle looks a bit beefier than what Prentiss made. if i recall correctly Prentiss made removable jaws in the late 1910's and since those are cast in jaws maybe your vise is a bit older than that. any #'s or letters on any parts of the vise?

good luck sandblasting and let us know how you like the results.

Sorry, spacing out. Posts https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6854901&postcount=5159 and https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6857415&postcount=5175. Rock Island was another one that some folks suggested for a manufacturer.

 

[Rlapointe87]

RLA: i've yet to find a York vise to buy around here that was reasonable or not sold quickly so I can't say for sure, but that looks like a York or a good older copy of one. the handles look nice so maybe a Taiwan copy of a York?



the 150 should make it a 6 inch wide jaw which you might already have known.



if it wasn't too spendy I'd buy it if that helps.

They want 50 not sure I'm in love enough.. if it was indeed a York I'd be all over it

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[ganymede]

Gany: good to know and do you happen to have any pictures you can post of your Athol (or another one) and that set screw..
.

View media item 103412

Thanks for the reminder ganymede, I researched the disassembly elsewhere, too, and noted the set screw - which is really a substantial 3/8-in bolt with a flat screwdriver slot. I removed it prior to attempting to loosen the very large bolt holding the base on. I'm getting some Kroil today as the WD-40 rust breaker isn't 'breaking' much...

Glad you are doing it the right way.
Its awful for the threads if you dont know or forget like I did.

 

[Billy182]

Hey folks,

Question regarding my Reed 403 1/2 A.
Unfortunately it’s missing the tapered steel pin for the swivel jaw, and I was wondering if anyone knew of a source where I could find one, or anyone has made these on a lathe?

Other than that, does anyone know original paint colors for these?

 

[Woodreaux]

Looking for some opinions. This is my grandfather's Reed 205. Maybe my great grandfather's even. Its welded to a table in the barn of the old dairy.

Question is whether it's even worth considering repairing it. I haven't done a thorough inspection, but at the very least, it's got a cracked slide and it's welded to the table. Nothing else obvious, except a handle that looks like an S.

My grandfather wasn't known for being gentle to tools.

I'm inclined to leave it alone.

What do you all think?

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Shiftless]

That’s a tough call.

Does ANYBODY here have a vise from their great grandfather? I sure don’t.

Personally, I wouldn’t scrap it but keep it in its current condition as a reminder of his hard work that put food on the table.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I'm gonna have to agree with shiftless here. I hate vises on shelves, but I'd probably torch the plate off the table and set that one up for display. Or honor him by continuing to use it for the dirty work. Can't hurt it much worse.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I am going to vote to refurbish. There are examples on here of repaired slides and handles. I have done both as well as cutting a welded base off of a plate. Take your time and look at the info here. I wish I had a heirloom vise. If I had a vise that belonged to my grandfather I would pull out all the stops to get it at least functional again.

good luck!

 

[mikeinri]

Hey guys,

Picked up what I assume is my Grandfather's (RIP) old vise over the weekend.

It's a Desmond Stephan Simplex Utility 100, looks to be in decent shape (other than some holes and grooves in the jaw, and an odd hole toward the rear of the anvil).

It's missing its swivel base, anyone know where I can get one?

Mike

 

[Shiftless]

I don’t have a base for that vise, but I congratulate you on obtaining your grandfathers vise.

The hole in the back is factory. There is a parting tool that drops into that hole that theoretically can be used for metal working. Many GJ guys will join me in warning anybody against pounding on the rear portion of a vise. It might be referred to as an anvil but it certainly isn’t an anvil.
If you need an anvil, get an anvil. If that’s not in the budget, do like a lot of us do and get a short length of railroad track.

Here is a shot I found on the web of a Wilton Shop King with that tool installed.

 

[Woodreaux]

That’s a tough call.

Does ANYBODY here have a vise from their great grandfather? I sure don’t.

Personally, I wouldn’t scrap it but keep it in its current condition as a reminder of his hard work that put food on the table.

Thanks to all for the input.

Being the sentimental type, I certainly won't scrap it. As pointed out, I can't make it worse by use or attempts at repair. At the very least, a monument to his work at you all have said. I might even try to do some restoration work without removing it from the table. Not sure about that.

Papaw was born in 1900 and died in 1998. He bought the farm around 1923 and worked on it for 70+ years . Still tinkering in his 90s. It's possible the vise was bought by my grandfather (also called papaw...) who was born around 1935 and had a gravel trucking company, but I suspect it predates him.



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[javie]

Dont forget to first remove the little set screw on the side of the main body.

Okay, the Athol 624 is apart and I just got a 5-gal bucket of Evapo-Rust. I've seen lots of advice on what to do after Evapo-Rust elsewhere (e.g., 1) degreaser and then acetone or brake cleaner, 2) wash with detergent then WD-40, 3) brake cleaner then etching primer/paint) what is the consensus on moving from the Evapo-Rust to a finished product? I like the look of the Sculpt oil, boiled linseed oil seems to be an option - or just a good penetrating oil and no paint whatsoever. The finish I like best is this one on a USA-made Craftsman, which was done with alot of sanding/polishing and then Rustoleum High Performance Clear. I will be using the vice, so it isn't going to be a showpiece or anything.

 

[Shiftless]

I like to degrease BEFORE de rusting. Lately I’ve been soaking vise parts in undiluted simple green. Warm it up in an old crock pot if possible. After a good long soak, I take the parts outside and use a light duty pressure washer to blast away old dirt and grease. From there you can blow off the water and dip parts into the Evaporust.

After Evaporust, I brush away the black residue, dry thoroughly (heat gun) and then apply BLO or paint.

Penetrating oil as a final finish isn’t permanent. BLO hardens into a permanent film that discourages rust pretty well.

Another product used by many of us is Fluid Film. It is lanolin based and seems to be an excellent rust preventative. I use it on bare steel vise handles and other things around the garage like putty knives and threaded parts of clamps.

Confession: I once stripped a large vintage C clamp and applied BLO to preserve and darken the iron. Without much thinking, I coated the threads as well. You guessed it... after a few months of sitting around, when I went to use it, it was stuck. The BLO hardened between the threads.

 

[javie]

Thanks for the words of wisdom Shiftless. We're on the same page, I already did the pressure washer bit, there are places with thick paint, but I figure those are pretty much rust-free underneath. I was going to hit it with a 3M Scotch-Brite to remove paint, then Evapo-Rust. It looks like you paint or BLO right after that, so you don't mess with the acetone/denatured alcohol/brake cleaner spray down first?

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks for the words of wisdom Shiftless. We're on the same page, I already did the pressure washer bit, there are places with thick paint, but I figure those are pretty much rust-free underneath. I was going to hit it with a 3M Scotch-Brite to remove paint, then Evapo-Rust. It looks like you paint or BLO right after that, so you don't mess with the acetone/denatured alcohol/brake cleaner spray down first?

When I soak in hot simple green for hours to remove paint, followed by pressure washing, I know that there is no residual grease to interfere with paint adhering. Do a solvent wash down if you use mechanical methods to remove paint.

I don’t use hot simple green for large pieces. Like you, I use tools like wire wheels and scotch brite flap wheels to remove paint and oxidation. I also occasionally use old style chemical paint stripper. With that stuff, you definitely have to do a thorough rinse. And work outdoors. And wear proper gloves. That stuff is quite toxic. (That’s why I like Simple Green)

Spray on oven cleaner followed by pressure washing is an easy degreaser as well.

 

[drivesitfar]

Wood: your Great Grand dad's old vise looks like it's been to war and while it has some injuries if it works I'd say use it. that said do you have brazing skills or know a friend that does?

there are several good examples on this thread about repairing cracked slides cause the old guys used to use that part of a vise as an anvil and i'm guessing there are still guys and gals that do. a good piece of RR track on your bench is a much better option if an expensive anvil isn't available.

good luck and keep up posted cause it deserves a spot on a bench or stand to keep working if you have the space.

Javie: that's quite a goal to get your old vise looking like that Craftsman so hope you can. depending on the part of the world you live in during this time of year you can usually avoid rusting and just start shining after it comes out of an E tank or Evaporust. since you are planning on sanding it to a mirror shine getting it to that point and then spraying on a nice clear after you're done might work best.

keep us posted

 

[dkroth]

When I soak in hot simple green for hours to remove paint....

My nose is running and my upper respiratory system is retching just from reading this!

I bet it works great.







.

 

[Shiftless]

It does work great. Covered crock pot.

I don’t suffer any of those symptoms.

My garage is well ventilated. I wouldn’t recommend using that set up in a poorly ventilated space.

 

[ganymede]

..... I like the look of the Sculpt oil, boiled linseed oil seems to be an option - or just a good penetrating oil and no paint whatsoever. The finish I like best is this one on a USA-made Craftsman, which was done with alot of sanding/polishing and then Rustoleum High Performance Clear. I will be using the vice, so it isn't going to be a showpiece or anything.

If you're going to be using the vise then just the boiled linseed oil is probably best. The polishing looks cool but any scratches from use are going to show up more.
No matter what way though good luck and we all will love to see how it turns out.

 

[motorhead1977]

I picked up a Rock Island 573 today that I plan on restoring. I noticed a tag on the side that says Manufactured by " something Electric Company " cant read the name yet. Has anyone ever seen one before? Also, I think there date stamp is on top of the slide and this on is 6 53, I'm assuming June 1953?

 

[drivesitfar]

Shift: I was going to ask if heating up simple green had an odor with or without a lid on your crock pot while heating it up and forgot to ask.

Motor: Bertman (sp?) Electric bought Rock Island vise company I think prior to WWII but at the minute I can’t recall what year so yes tags are fairly common. That said your rock island is at least 60 years old cause they closed the vise making factory in 1957.