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The VISES of Garage Journal

tombell572

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,038
Location
Sea Cliff, NY & Portland, OR
Woodreaux, that stand could have been for an old cold rivet, eyelet or grommet machine.The hole at the base would have housed a pivot for a foot pedal. I have a Stimpson stand I use for a grinder that is very similar.

Tom B.
 
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sakurama

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
1,458
Location
Portland - the cool one.
I'm reposting this from my Moto Mecca thread in case it is useful to someone here. I've spent many hours looking through this epic thread so I wanted to give back a little since my solutions might help someone. I may also post it separately so it can be found easier. Not a real "restoration" but I did manage to fix a vise that has bugged me for a while.

So the other day a friend called me. His restaurant is closed and of course he's worried and trying to make sense of what's going to happen. I generally take my calls in the shop and for once, with the buffer done, the bench was empty. I'm not good at just sitting still and while we chatted I fiddled with the vise (a Chas Parker No. 973) which has never had a functional rotation lock and has always bugged me. I was curious and assumed it was because one of the two locking bolts had broken...

i-Dn4McCX-X2.jpg


This happened over the course of our phone call.

What I learned is that the vise doesn't have two locking bolts like my Wilton - it has a single one and a drum brake type expanding set up. It was filthy and covered in grease. I figured I'd give a good clean and getting rid of the grease would fix the locking mechanism.

i-t7CxgMR-X2.jpg


It spent about 4 hours in the ultrasonic and I changed the cleaner twice. Now, with all the grease gone and the inside clean and dry the lock worked even worse.

Great, I just made an annoying vise worse and more useless.

i-S2XMbVT-X2.jpg


I chucked up the base in the 4 jaw and cleaned up the casting inside as all surfaces of the this vise are super rough and raw castings.

i-RTBBQ5V-X2.jpg


I didn't go for a super smooth finish - I just wanted it to be even. Now the vise had absolutely zero lock no matter how tight I locked it. Wow, I'm still going backwards. I contemplated throwing it away and just mounting the great Wilton that I've owned forever but never use because it's not bolted to the table.

That's what I should have done.

i-CWBxtxt-X2.jpg


Instead I then sanded down the shoes so that they'd be smoother. Again, it made things worse.

i-S29TddN-X2.jpg


Finally I realized that the cam plate was bottoming so I removed some material from that and then smoothed the faces on the shoes and cam. It started to work again. I bolted it all together and it actually now worked pretty good.

i-gkwQmwP-X2.jpg


Gee, maybe this isn't a lost cause after all.

i-FQR9GV4-X2.jpg


I was considering just putting it back together but, it was clean and apart and it won't be that way again. So I put the body in the bead blasting cabinet for a quick clean up.

i-M3FnF9T-X2.jpg


Then I looked for unoffensive paint that I wouldn't have to prime and was close enough to empty that I could use it and throw away the can freeing up space. Turned out Hammerite dark gray was the winner.

i-HfNMxS4-X2.jpg


At that point I was going to just put it together but someone on IG sent me a photo of the same vise they'd restored and it looked nice. I couldn't clean up the vise screw unless I cut off the bent handle...

i-2s6m26x-X2.jpg


I bored the hole out to half inch and cleaned up the screw. I didn't have any 1/2" rod except for stainless which wouldn't be strong enough. I found an old vise handle that was 5/8" and turned that down.

i-zz3ZR8P-X2.jpg


Then the slop bothered me so I made a bronze washer to take up that space, some end caps for the handle and at that point I decided to grind down the tops of the vise jaws as they weren't level.

i-KFzW8Z2-X2.jpg


I didn't take a "before" photo because I didn't mean to do this. I never liked this vise but it came with the table and because it was there I've used it. Trying to refinish this vise without a vise to hold things in - wow, that was really hard. You take vises for granted.

i-W4VCzMB-X2.jpg


i-rsKnh6C-X2.jpg


i-rzFfJS4-X2.jpg


i-QBdg9pt-X2.jpg


i-frbBZQt-X2.jpg


This isn't really any kind of "restoration" but more of a fixing a broken vise thing and while you're in there you might as well put some paint on it so it doesn't rust. I didn't dress any of the casting imperfections or do anything other than put two coats of Hammerite on it. And it got two coats because that's when the can ran out.

I will say that the longer handle with no slop in it is really nice. The brake now locks the vise but not nearly as well as the Wilton. I think I may rotate the table 90 degrees and drill and tap the corner so that the Wilton is in this spot and this vise is to my left. If I ever need to clamp something long I'll have two (different which will annoy me) vises in line with each other.

So, that was an accidental mission creep due to a phone call. But that vise is now not annoying me and is functionally improved.

Gregor
 

Smitty

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
2,409
Location
USA
Great job getting that vise back up and running and your photography skills are on point.
 
Last edited:

Productbob

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Messages
414
Location
ny
Sak sounds like pulling a thread from a sweater, just doesn't stop coming. Well done getting through the issues and make it a fully functioning vise
 

LNKMK8

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
1,192
Location
Overland Park, KS
Finished up this York 150 today... was really in rough shape when I bought.
 

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Outlawmws

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
39,310
Location
The Badlands
SAk That came out great!

But you need to do one more thing, and you will love this fix:

The friction screw, spring and button are missing from the center of the main screw. make up a slotted screw, not too long, then a brass button. find a spring that fits, and trim to length so the button is riding on the handle.

What this does is provide enough friction so you can position the handle centered and one finger the vise open or closed. it is SO much faster!

I fixed my 974 a year or so ago, and I've been kicking myself ever since for not doing it 35 years ago!
 

bagged89s10

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
4,607
Location
CT
I just about finished this 1950 Chicago Wilton. Does anyone have a sage green wilton with painted lettering? I’m debating wether to paint the letters or not. I have a lot of hand file work and time painting this one and don’t want to have to repaint if I don’t like the color of the lettering. After all the filing, I primed with etching primer to make sure the smooth areas got good paint adhesion. Then sprayed filler primer and baked at 200F for 1 hour. Sanded with 400grit before 2 thin coats of Rustoleum Satin sage. baked at 200F for an hour. sanded with 400 grit to correct a few dust and sand marks. one last coat of sage green and baked again at 200F for an hour. New jaws from autopts. I still have to make swivel lock handles. I might do a little work on the spindle nose and handle.


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M635_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
4,336
Location
NC
I'm reposting this from my Moto Mecca thread in case it is useful to someone here. I've spent many hours looking through this epic thread so I wanted to give back a little since my solutions might help someone. I may also post it separately so it can be found easier. Not a real "restoration" but I did manage to fix a vise that has bugged me for a while.

So the other day a friend called me. His restaurant is closed and of course he's worried and trying to make sense of what's going to happen. I generally take my calls in the shop and for once, with the buffer done, the bench was empty. I'm not good at just sitting still and while we chatted I fiddled with the vise (a Chas Parker No. 973) which has never had a functional rotation lock and has always bugged me. I was curious and assumed it was because one of the two locking bolts had broken...

i-Dn4McCX-X2.jpg


This happened over the course of our phone call.

What I learned is that the vise doesn't have two locking bolts like my Wilton - it has a single one and a drum brake type expanding set up. It was filthy and covered in grease. I figured I'd give a good clean and getting rid of the grease would fix the locking mechanism.

i-t7CxgMR-X2.jpg


It spent about 4 hours in the ultrasonic and I changed the cleaner twice. Now, with all the grease gone and the inside clean and dry the lock worked even worse.

Great, I just made an annoying vise worse and more useless.

i-S2XMbVT-X2.jpg


I chucked up the base in the 4 jaw and cleaned up the casting inside as all surfaces of the this vise are super rough and raw castings.

i-RTBBQ5V-X2.jpg


I didn't go for a super smooth finish - I just wanted it to be even. Now the vise had absolutely zero lock no matter how tight I locked it. Wow, I'm still going backwards. I contemplated throwing it away and just mounting the great Wilton that I've owned forever but never use because it's not bolted to the table.

That's what I should have done.

i-CWBxtxt-X2.jpg


Instead I then sanded down the shoes so that they'd be smoother. Again, it made things worse.

i-S29TddN-X2.jpg


Finally I realized that the cam plate was bottoming so I removed some material from that and then smoothed the faces on the shoes and cam. It started to work again. I bolted it all together and it actually now worked pretty good.

i-gkwQmwP-X2.jpg


Gee, maybe this isn't a lost cause after all.

i-FQR9GV4-X2.jpg


I was considering just putting it back together but, it was clean and apart and it won't be that way again. So I put the body in the bead blasting cabinet for a quick clean up.

i-M3FnF9T-X2.jpg


Then I looked for unoffensive paint that I wouldn't have to prime and was close enough to empty that I could use it and throw away the can freeing up space. Turned out Hammerite dark gray was the winner.

i-HfNMxS4-X2.jpg


At that point I was going to just put it together but someone on IG sent me a photo of the same vise they'd restored and it looked nice. I couldn't clean up the vise screw unless I cut off the bent handle...

i-2s6m26x-X2.jpg


I bored the hole out to half inch and cleaned up the screw. I didn't have any 1/2" rod except for stainless which wouldn't be strong enough. I found an old vise handle that was 5/8" and turned that down.

i-zz3ZR8P-X2.jpg


Then the slop bothered me so I made a bronze washer to take up that space, some end caps for the handle and at that point I decided to grind down the tops of the vise jaws as they weren't level.

i-KFzW8Z2-X2.jpg


I didn't take a "before" photo because I didn't mean to do this. I never liked this vise but it came with the table and because it was there I've used it. Trying to refinish this vise without a vise to hold things in - wow, that was really hard. You take vises for granted.

i-W4VCzMB-X2.jpg


i-rsKnh6C-X2.jpg


i-rzFfJS4-X2.jpg


i-QBdg9pt-X2.jpg


i-frbBZQt-X2.jpg


This isn't really any kind of "restoration" but more of a fixing a broken vise thing and while you're in there you might as well put some paint on it so it doesn't rust. I didn't dress any of the casting imperfections or do anything other than put two coats of Hammerite on it. And it got two coats because that's when the can ran out.

I will say that the longer handle with no slop in it is really nice. The brake now locks the vise but not nearly as well as the Wilton. I think I may rotate the table 90 degrees and drill and tap the corner so that the Wilton is in this spot and this vise is to my left. If I ever need to clamp something long I'll have two (different which will annoy me) vises in line with each other.

So, that was an accidental mission creep due to a phone call. But that vise is now not annoying me and is functionally improved.

Gregor

I wish that everyone in the world had a friend like you.
 

davethorik

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
4,992
Location
Norka, Ohio
This vise had caught my attention months ago, somewhat local but too much $$. It was on Craigslist and offer up/Letgo, then ****. Gone. Figured it sold.

Fast forward to last week, found it again for a lower price on fb marketplace. I still thought it a bit high, so I shot seller a fair offer and he accepted.

Prentiss no. 19-1/2, 4" jaw swivel jaw swivel base. Opens 5" and 47 lbs. Original except taper pin, and a spare with a cross bar, both very well made. One sweetie of a little vise, loads of patina. Very tight, zero backlash in the screw. Swivel base works very well. No breaks or cracks.

Also this is the 1st time I've ever bought a swivel jaw that wasn't stuck, so there is that.
 

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KMScott

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
4,643
Location
Daufuskie Island, South Carolina
Nice job Gregor . Yep that's how you restore these old Parkers. I don't know why they didn't clean up their castings from the factory. I've done a few and seen your same issues. Great to see old Parkers back in working order again.

Nice Wilton Baggs.
 

bagged89s10

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
4,607
Location
CT
Nice job Gregor . Yep that's how you restore these old Parkers. I don't know why they didn't clean up their castings from the factory. I've done a few and seen your same issues. Great to see old Parkers back in working order again.

Nice Wilton Baggs.


thanks kevin.
 

dct55

Active member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
41
I just came across a Samson branded Rock Island vise, in nice shape. Samson was the Sears brand before Craftsman. It's got several layers of old red paint, and I wondered if anyone knows what the original color was?
 

rusty65

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
2,279
Location
Pekin,IL
I just came across a Samson branded Rock Island vise, in nice shape. Samson was the Sears brand before Craftsman. It's got several layers of old red paint, and I wondered if anyone knows what the original color was?


Should be no gloss black.

a53c014ba1e5e71f939444da75d6e9cb.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Outlawmws

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
39,310
Location
The Badlands
I just came across a Samson branded Rock Island vise, in nice shape. Samson was the Sears brand before Craftsman. It's got several layers of old red paint, and I wondered if anyone knows what the original color was?

Nothing in the 1925 catalog on color, but I DID just notice it said *NOT MALLEABLE - Star, bold, and all! - So a hint not to abuse it!
 

Fierljeppen

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
1,159
I just came across a Samson branded Rock Island vise, in nice shape. Samson was the Sears brand before Craftsman. It's got several layers of old red paint, and I wondered if anyone knows what the original color was?

Should be no gloss black.

"No gloss black" sounds a lot more interesting than "dull black finish".

attachment.php

attachment.php
 

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sakurama

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
1,458
Location
Portland - the cool one.
SAk That came out great!

But you need to do one more thing, and you will love this fix:

The friction screw, spring and button are missing from the center of the main screw. make up a slotted screw, not too long, then a brass button. find a spring that fits, and trim to length so the button is riding on the handle.

What this does is provide enough friction so you can position the handle centered and one finger the vise open or closed. it is SO much faster!

I fixed my 974 a year or so ago, and I've been kicking myself ever since for not doing it 35 years ago!

I reamed the screw nose to 1/2” and then machined the handle to a couple thou under so that the handle can slide but it will pretty much stay where you put it as there’s enough friction there. That said I’ll make up a screw for that but I have yet to see one to copy.

Gregor
 

Smitty

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
2,409
Location
USA
This vise had caught my attention months ago, somewhat local but too much $$. It was on Craigslist and offer up/Letgo, then ****. Gone. Figured it sold.

Fast forward to last week, found it again for a lower price on fb marketplace. I still thought it a bit high, so I shot seller a fair offer and he accepted.

Prentiss no. 19-1/2, 4" jaw swivel jaw swivel base. Opens 5" and 47 lbs. Original except taper pin, and a spare with a cross bar, both very well made. One sweetie of a little vise, loads of patina. Very tight, zero backlash in the screw. Swivel base works very well. No breaks or cracks.

Also this is the 1st time I've ever bought a swivel jaw that wasn't stuck, so there is that.
Dave, that Prentiss is in beautiful shape and that alternate pin design is really cool. Nice find.
 

Vise

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
575
Location
NE
Figured you guys would appreciate this. Picked up a 725 lb Railroad stand, used in the old railroad shops and prominently featured in that old “flying train” picture (below). Best of all, the original bolt pattern on the stand perfectly matches my Prentiss 58. I have no doubt a Prentiss 58 was mounted on this stand back in the railroad shop, which is a relief, as it makes my decision easy: no choice but to mount the 58 on it. Between the 725lb stand and the 276lb vise, this set up is over 1,000 pounds.

Here’s some more video of the stand and vise, if you’re interested:

824d771f9c6cd99f27cddc40948b1b78.jpg
edee25929ce1e108575bff2d46d62b4a.jpg
ef5b10faa1145049001710c302707074.jpg
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fa85ccb8472a056fca5fa76b2e6baefc.jpg
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va.grouseman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
4,965
Location
Southern-Central VA.
Picked up this little Simplex 100 recently.---I saw where Mikeinri inherited his Grandfathers 100 back on page 3964, then a couple of days latter this one popped up on eBay..---I didn't really want one of these little homeowners hobby vises but this one was made in Woonsocket R.I..---It's only the second one from Woonsocket that I've ever had a chance to buy.---I wished that the Birtman Electric Co. had of bought Desmond Stevens at the same time they bought Rock Island, then my little 100 might have read, R.I. made in R.I. depending on how they mixed it up.---Now that would have really been a collector.---I always pick up the Woonsockets because they seem to be on the same level of scarcity as the Wilton Auroras.
 

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Vise

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
575
Location
NE
Shift, Outlaw, KMS - Thanks guys! Feel lucky to have it. And KMS, your jaws feature prominently on the 58, so thank you! Are you going to build a railroad stand for yours?
 

cstmg8

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
518
Location
Pickerington, oh
Does anyone recognize this vise? Hoping to figure out if it's reputable and worth $125. I can't see a maker in any pics.38cf2999136f0e19e3c642dc24e09433.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Outlawmws

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
39,310
Location
The Badlands
I know its a machinist vise (You probably do also), The brand doesn't jump out to me. What width are the jaws? I'm guessing either 6 or 8" ?

I'd hazard a guess that is of WWII vintage? Not as popular as the newest M vises have angle lock or some equivalent for a better more precise grip.

If it happened to be a 4" wide it would have good demand with the Clausing 85XX crowd
 

Mohawk Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
5,068
Location
SoCal
Those old mill vises never caught me any money... I pass on them now (unless some crazy obscure wanted item).

And it's old technology that does not have the angle lock like Kurt and every new Chinese vise has. The exposed screw is no good.

But like Outlaw said the 4-inch ones have demand. On the used market a 4in goes for ding near twice as much as a 6in Kurt. Just because there's fewer of them out there. Almost every single machine shop in the world uses a 6in all day everyday.
 

Smitty

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
2,409
Location
USA
Vise
Congrats on locking up that stand they don’t come up ferry often. I really like the restoration you did on the 58, the color looks great. What a pairing.
 

KMScott

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
4,643
Location
Daufuskie Island, South Carolina
Shift, Outlaw, KMS - Thanks guys! Feel lucky to have it. And KMS, your jaws feature prominently on the 58, so thank you! Are you going to build a railroad stand for yours?

Not now but I also had a drawing of one that Alexander in Texas helped me with. The steel is not cheap to buy.

Guys I sold my business and setting up a new shop outside Golden CO. In the next 2 months replaceable jaws for the Prentiss's and other models will be available again. I will be training a Machinist to build jaws and vise parts. She is a old friend and happy for the new owners and Mary the new jaw maker.
 

Vise

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
575
Location
NE
Thanks, Smitty. First one I’ve seen come up for sale, so I had to grab it.

Congrats KMS! Looking forward to working with the new business owner!
 

KMScott

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
4,643
Location
Daufuskie Island, South Carolina
Great news Dr. Scott! She needs to join GJ and get introduced around!

I can't speak for her, she is not a vise collector or fan. I'll show her the social vise sites and see if she is interested in contributing.

This job is so perfect for her, she has been making chips since 2005 but this is a mans world, I can only imagine what she has had to put up with. She will have her own shop, all hers with great owners.
 

KMScott

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
4,643
Location
Daufuskie Island, South Carolina
That was what I thought of too Outlaw. Another Carla. I have worked with hundred's of Machinist's and Toolmakers but never with a Woman. Carla knew her stuff and was a great writer. I miss her contributions. I took Mary's job in 2005, she was the machinist that built parts for a Video Accessory Company. They were growing and needed a Toolmaker to design and build new fixturing and pour molds. Now it has gone full circle and she is taking my position.
 
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