alpinewhite
Well-known member
Tarragon Green
Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT The 12-Gauge Garage
- Thread starter Jack Olsen
- Start date
Workspaces sized between 265 and 485 squarefeet.
Tarragon Green
OP
Yes, Tarragon is a Sears Weatherbeater color. I'm not a huge fan of Weatherbeater paint, but a lot of other places can match it with that name.
I hope everyone is getting through the pandemic safely. I realized this week that this was the seven-year anniversary of the deck and pergola I built for my back yard. Looking at the pictures, I decided to put together a little slide show. I'm happy to report it's still sitting flat and the shade structure has held up well for the seven years. It amazes me I was able to put together enough time to get through it, in retrospective. But the slideshow reminds me of how many different sections the project got divided into.
I hope everyone is getting through the pandemic safely. I realized this week that this was the seven-year anniversary of the deck and pergola I built for my back yard. Looking at the pictures, I decided to put together a little slide show. I'm happy to report it's still sitting flat and the shade structure has held up well for the seven years. It amazes me I was able to put together enough time to get through it, in retrospective. But the slideshow reminds me of how many different sections the project got divided into.
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Jack, I remember the project well but it's hard to believe it has been seven years. By now I expect Max can reach the bottom edge of the shade structure.
OP
How to test a deck
Seven years ago, I built a deck for my back yard.
This year we faced an uncertain summer for the kids. The camps we've sent them to were not planning to open. The pool down the street is closed.
So, looking at a stir-crazy summer, we decided to get a little water slide for the front yard. The kids liked it so much, we came up with a crazier idea: an above ground pool for the summer.
We have no room to put an above ground pool. It wouldn't fit in the front yard, and it wouldn't be legal there. My wife came up with the idea of putting it on the back deck. I told her that a swimming pool weighs a lot more than people think.
She said the deck I'd built was strong enough for anything. The gears in my head started turning.
So how much does a pool weigh? Well, a 48"-deep 15' diameter pool holds 4,646 gallons of water. A gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds.
So, we're looking at a little more than 38,000 pounds.
My deck is a floating design. It sits on 52 concrete feet. It's pretty simple. Now, it's stupid to put a pool on any deck -- they're usually built for something like 40-50 pounds of load per square foot. So no one should try this.
But I'll admit: I did.
My biggest concern was the whole thing sinking down into the dirt. So I put reference marks at all four corners before I started filling the thing.
Now I can see if there's any downward migration.
So far, it's still flat. No movement. My worst-case-scenario plan would be jacking it up into the air to re-level the feet for the thing. But the worst-case hasn't happened yet.
For heat, I picked up a second-hand 186,000-BTU tankless water heater. I'd plumbed a one-inch gas line for the fireplace on the deck. Now I've repurposed it for the heater. So far, it's worked. (We'll see what my next gas bill looks like.)
The plan is to only keep this thing until the end of the summer, or if the kids stop using it. I miss the quiet and the space the deck used to provide for relaxing. But there's something nice about getting the kids out of the house and being able to keep an eye on them through the security camera that's back there. The house is very quiet when they're swimming. Just like the deck used to be.
It ain't classy. It ain't fancy. The kids love it.
All the 120v near it is disconnected.
This weekend, I'm finishing up a deck on the deck, to make getting in and out less awkward.
Here's the heating setup.
Seven years ago, I built a deck for my back yard.
This year we faced an uncertain summer for the kids. The camps we've sent them to were not planning to open. The pool down the street is closed.
So, looking at a stir-crazy summer, we decided to get a little water slide for the front yard. The kids liked it so much, we came up with a crazier idea: an above ground pool for the summer.
We have no room to put an above ground pool. It wouldn't fit in the front yard, and it wouldn't be legal there. My wife came up with the idea of putting it on the back deck. I told her that a swimming pool weighs a lot more than people think.
She said the deck I'd built was strong enough for anything. The gears in my head started turning.
So how much does a pool weigh? Well, a 48"-deep 15' diameter pool holds 4,646 gallons of water. A gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds.
So, we're looking at a little more than 38,000 pounds.
My deck is a floating design. It sits on 52 concrete feet. It's pretty simple. Now, it's stupid to put a pool on any deck -- they're usually built for something like 40-50 pounds of load per square foot. So no one should try this.
But I'll admit: I did.
My biggest concern was the whole thing sinking down into the dirt. So I put reference marks at all four corners before I started filling the thing.
Now I can see if there's any downward migration.
So far, it's still flat. No movement. My worst-case-scenario plan would be jacking it up into the air to re-level the feet for the thing. But the worst-case hasn't happened yet.
For heat, I picked up a second-hand 186,000-BTU tankless water heater. I'd plumbed a one-inch gas line for the fireplace on the deck. Now I've repurposed it for the heater. So far, it's worked. (We'll see what my next gas bill looks like.)
The plan is to only keep this thing until the end of the summer, or if the kids stop using it. I miss the quiet and the space the deck used to provide for relaxing. But there's something nice about getting the kids out of the house and being able to keep an eye on them through the security camera that's back there. The house is very quiet when they're swimming. Just like the deck used to be.
It ain't classy. It ain't fancy. The kids love it.
All the 120v near it is disconnected.
This weekend, I'm finishing up a deck on the deck, to make getting in and out less awkward.
Here's the heating setup.
jchetty
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
Very impressive. I personally love how it is enclosed. Awesome work as usual.
Very impressive. I personally love how it is enclosed. Awesome work as usual.
like2wheel
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
I love it.
And heat!
Not sure you're gonna get away with loosing it after 1 summer, that little girl looks soooooo happy.
I love it.
And heat!
Not sure you're gonna get away with loosing it after 1 summer, that little girl looks soooooo happy.
619DioFan
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
A heated pool in cali ?
A heated pool in cali ?
ChevyEFI
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
We already had a pool. We did however, upgrade trampolines this year, for kid energy consumption. You made a great investment in kid happiness.
Sun adds a lot of heat. They have a shade. Also, I suspect since Jack seems to plan ahead, he's not really taking it down after summer.
But seriously, for sun-exposed pools, the difference in use of a pool here is 2 months if the pool is on the north of the house and shaded, compared to a pool on the south of a house.
We already had a pool. We did however, upgrade trampolines this year, for kid energy consumption. You made a great investment in kid happiness.
Sun adds a lot of heat. They have a shade. Also, I suspect since Jack seems to plan ahead, he's not really taking it down after summer.
But seriously, for sun-exposed pools, the difference in use of a pool here is 2 months if the pool is on the north of the house and shaded, compared to a pool on the south of a house.
Re: How to test a deck
I calculate north of 44000 lbs, and right around 250 lbs per square foot, which seems pretty high. Consider a loaded 18-wheeler is nearly double that weight, and I'm sure has much less contact area at the tires, so it's not the sinking I would be worried about. However, I would be concerned about the sheathing and beams.
I calculate north of 44000 lbs, and right around 250 lbs per square foot, which seems pretty high. Consider a loaded 18-wheeler is nearly double that weight, and I'm sure has much less contact area at the tires, so it's not the sinking I would be worried about. However, I would be concerned about the sheathing and beams.
acer66
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
Not sure about a heated pool but I loved to get into a hot jacuzzi after a bicycle or motorcycle ride
in a socal winter when I lived in LA.
OP, looks great and the enclosure is a pretty cool and a smart move.
Not sure about a heated pool but I loved to get into a hot jacuzzi after a bicycle or motorcycle ride
in a socal winter when I lived in LA.
OP, looks great and the enclosure is a pretty cool and a smart move.
TractorJeff
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
Did you figure in the 52 concrete feet pads that the 250lbs / sqft is sitting on?
Did you figure in the 52 concrete feet pads that the 250lbs / sqft is sitting on?
Re: How to test a deck
If that thing springs a leak or collapses, how how much of that water is going to flood the house Jack ?
If that thing springs a leak or collapses, how how much of that water is going to flood the house Jack ?
sberry
Banned
Re: How to test a deck
Get Al's mom to sit on it for a test.
Get Al's mom to sit on it for a test.
Jeepster04
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 3,097
Re: How to test a deck
Im highly curious, why did you use so many concrete pads? Its great that you did since you put a pool on it, but I've never seen someone build a deck so above and beyond.
Im highly curious, why did you use so many concrete pads? Its great that you did since you put a pool on it, but I've never seen someone build a deck so above and beyond.
OP
Re: How to test a deck
I'll be the first to offer up that I am not an expert on this. What I've thought about the most is what a failure would look like -- is there anything outside of the thing sinking in an uneven way. The load is somewhat dynamic, but it's also distributed in a very uniform way; a 100% contact patch. I think a failure of a joist or joists would be a worst-case scenario. Even then, I don't imagine that would lead to a catastrophic failure of the liner or structure. (But of course I could be wrong about that.)
The decking material reduces the likelihood of that, since it's inch-thick hardwood and is one of those Brazilian 'iron wood' species that is so dense it sinks in water and dulls the blades you cut it with faster than aluminum. If the decking were just treated fir, I'd be concerned. But this stuff is the strongest part of the structure, I think.
My uneducated gut tells me the most likely problems would be a localized depression/sinking around one or a few of the concrete footings -- which would be apparent in the irregularity it would create in the bottom of the pool. Or the whole deck could lean/sink in one direction, which (assuming it's gradual) would be detectable because the whole thing functions like a level, since there is a pattern on the liner that is consistent all the way around.
So far, the decking has stayed flat and there is no lean. But we'll see how the summer goes.
The deck is below the level of the house by about a foot, and there is no basement underneath to flood. Then again, if the thing burst open suddenly, twenty tons of water is a lot to deal with. I'm not saying the bedroom rug would stay dry.
I hadn't done anything like it before, so I was figuring it out as I went along. For seven years now, it's stayed flat.
I appreciate all the input. I know there's a part of me that isn't as cautious as it should be. Perspective from outsiders keeps me (somewhat) in check.
I'll be the first to offer up that I am not an expert on this. What I've thought about the most is what a failure would look like -- is there anything outside of the thing sinking in an uneven way. The load is somewhat dynamic, but it's also distributed in a very uniform way; a 100% contact patch. I think a failure of a joist or joists would be a worst-case scenario. Even then, I don't imagine that would lead to a catastrophic failure of the liner or structure. (But of course I could be wrong about that.)
The decking material reduces the likelihood of that, since it's inch-thick hardwood and is one of those Brazilian 'iron wood' species that is so dense it sinks in water and dulls the blades you cut it with faster than aluminum. If the decking were just treated fir, I'd be concerned. But this stuff is the strongest part of the structure, I think.
My uneducated gut tells me the most likely problems would be a localized depression/sinking around one or a few of the concrete footings -- which would be apparent in the irregularity it would create in the bottom of the pool. Or the whole deck could lean/sink in one direction, which (assuming it's gradual) would be detectable because the whole thing functions like a level, since there is a pattern on the liner that is consistent all the way around.
So far, the decking has stayed flat and there is no lean. But we'll see how the summer goes.
The deck is below the level of the house by about a foot, and there is no basement underneath to flood. Then again, if the thing burst open suddenly, twenty tons of water is a lot to deal with. I'm not saying the bedroom rug would stay dry.
I hadn't done anything like it before, so I was figuring it out as I went along. For seven years now, it's stayed flat.
I appreciate all the input. I know there's a part of me that isn't as cautious as it should be. Perspective from outsiders keeps me (somewhat) in check.
txvwnut
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
Jack I think you’ve taken redneck to a whole nuther level.
Jack I think you’ve taken redneck to a whole nuther level.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Re: How to test a deck
that's awesome. great job Jack.
we all need to improvise a bit during this mess. you made a great place for the kids to have a lot of fun.
that's awesome. great job Jack.
we all need to improvise a bit during this mess. you made a great place for the kids to have a lot of fun.
Re: How to test a deck
Did you read my post? There's stuff between the concrete and the pool that isn't concrete. That's the stuff I'm worried about, specifically buckling. Having unobtanium decking is surely going a long way with this.
What's the spacing of the joists?
Did you figure in the 52 concrete feet pads that the 250lbs / sqft is sitting on?
Did you read my post? There's stuff between the concrete and the pool that isn't concrete. That's the stuff I'm worried about, specifically buckling. Having unobtanium decking is surely going a long way with this.
What's the spacing of the joists?
mrodgers
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
The gray liner ones are much thicker liners. They are closer to a standard above ground pool liner.
It's not the deck failing that is the main problem with how it reacts to the house. It's a LOT of weight pushing out on the liner and, did you give your girl a nice rock when you got hitched? The blue Intex are pretty thin. Make sure the girls take off their rings. Scratch and maybe penetrate the side of the liner in the vertical direction with something and it will split straight up like the legs of a **** star. That is the catastrophic failure of worry. It happens on the side facing the house, that's a 5000 gallon wall of water hitting your house.
The gray liner ones are much thicker liners. They are closer to a standard above ground pool liner.
Re: How to test a deck
That was my first thought..............
This as a small one.......
That was my first thought..............
This as a small one.......
OP
Re: How to test a deck
I'll admit didn't give a lot of thought to a failure of the liner. This is season one (of one) with a reasonably significant reduction in UV (because of the shade fabric) and a perfectly level base. That seems like a fairly gentle test of the liner.
But I'll acknowledge, it's within 6' of the house, which reduces the safety margin if there's a manufacturing flaw that produces a catastrophic failure.
I wonder: am I so far gone that this project would be an insult to rednecks?
I'll admit didn't give a lot of thought to a failure of the liner. This is season one (of one) with a reasonably significant reduction in UV (because of the shade fabric) and a perfectly level base. That seems like a fairly gentle test of the liner.
But I'll acknowledge, it's within 6' of the house, which reduces the safety margin if there's a manufacturing flaw that produces a catastrophic failure.
I wonder: am I so far gone that this project would be an insult to rednecks?
ford33
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
I would make an opening available for all that water to exit the area quickly. You don't want to trap the water against the house should the pool burst so having a path of least resistance for the water to travel would be a good idea.
I would make an opening available for all that water to exit the area quickly. You don't want to trap the water against the house should the pool burst so having a path of least resistance for the water to travel would be a good idea.
Re: How to test a deck
Keep us posted on the deck success/failure...
The only thing that may be worth considering is the vent stack on that heater...close to house (wood) and is potentially pushing fumes in to the eve vents. You don’t have a photo above it...your call...
Otherwise
Keep us posted on the deck success/failure...
The only thing that may be worth considering is the vent stack on that heater...close to house (wood) and is potentially pushing fumes in to the eve vents. You don’t have a photo above it...your call...
Otherwise
Re: How to test a deck
I'll vouch for your honorary redneck card.
APPROVED!!
I wonder: am I so far gone that this project would be an insult to rednecks?
I'll vouch for your honorary redneck card.
APPROVED!!
OP
mrodgers
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
It's too pretty. You're missing electrical cords on a floaty in the middle of the pool to run the radio and heater. The covering of your porch should be a just a standard blue tarp. If you've built any steps leading up to the porch, remove them and replace them with standard concrete block.
That should do it for now. Then you can take the redneck status
I wonder: am I so far gone that this project would be an insult to rednecks?
It's too pretty. You're missing electrical cords on a floaty in the middle of the pool to run the radio and heater. The covering of your porch should be a just a standard blue tarp. If you've built any steps leading up to the porch, remove them and replace them with standard concrete block.
That should do it for now. Then you can take the redneck status
sberry
Banned
Re: How to test a deck
I agree that it's not redneck. The horse water tank in the wash bay with the hot pressure washer hose in it for a hot tub was a pic I missed. I got a pic of the girl,,, not of the tub.
I agree that it's not redneck. The horse water tank in the wash bay with the hot pressure washer hose in it for a hot tub was a pic I missed. I got a pic of the girl,,, not of the tub.
OP
Re: How to test a deck
It's true, I disconnected the electrical up above, and there's GFCI for the remaining outlets. And the kids painted the platform we made for getting in and out. So, it's still an odd-looking structure, but it's not as ugly as it could have been.
The part that I was happy about was that I got to use up the gray paint I had initially chosen for the fencing around the deck, but then decided to replace with a slightly-different gray. I've been hoping to find a use for that paint for 7 years.
I was surprised at how willing to help the kids were. Being stuck at home has maybe had some benefits.
Same cordless tools, same boy, seven years back.
It's true, I disconnected the electrical up above, and there's GFCI for the remaining outlets. And the kids painted the platform we made for getting in and out. So, it's still an odd-looking structure, but it's not as ugly as it could have been.
The part that I was happy about was that I got to use up the gray paint I had initially chosen for the fencing around the deck, but then decided to replace with a slightly-different gray. I've been hoping to find a use for that paint for 7 years.
I was surprised at how willing to help the kids were. Being stuck at home has maybe had some benefits.
Same cordless tools, same boy, seven years back.
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Dragfluid
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Re: How to test a deck
Now you're just showing off.
Very nice job! I agree that having the enclosure should help keep the UV off of the liner.
Lucky kids!
Now you're just showing off.
Very nice job! I agree that having the enclosure should help keep the UV off of the liner.
Lucky kids!
Fordguy1964
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
One thing I didn't see mentioned is the chlorinated air inside the somewhat enclosed space. My company builds HVAC ductwork and any ductwork that goes inside of a pool area is constructed of PVC coated steel and is completely sealed inside and out to prevent any of that air getting to the metal. Anything in that area made of steel and not well protected will not have a long life cycle after this.
That said, that is a really cool setup. Your kids will remember that for a long time to come.
One thing I didn't see mentioned is the chlorinated air inside the somewhat enclosed space. My company builds HVAC ductwork and any ductwork that goes inside of a pool area is constructed of PVC coated steel and is completely sealed inside and out to prevent any of that air getting to the metal. Anything in that area made of steel and not well protected will not have a long life cycle after this.
That said, that is a really cool setup. Your kids will remember that for a long time to come.
Re: How to test a deck
Did you get hosed on the pool? Our 10+ year old pool finally threw in the towel last year and we figured we would get one just prior to spring but everything is more expensive than we we have seen in the past. Thinking most are made in China so there is a shortage on them now.
Did you get hosed on the pool? Our 10+ year old pool finally threw in the towel last year and we figured we would get one just prior to spring but everything is more expensive than we we have seen in the past. Thinking most are made in China so there is a shortage on them now.
OP
Re: How to test a deck
Yes I did.
I think it's a combination of fewer shipments coming over and increased demand. At least where we live, most summer programs (and local pools) are closed. So a pool that would have cost $350 cost me $750. Some increases are even larger.
Yes I did.
I think it's a combination of fewer shipments coming over and increased demand. At least where we live, most summer programs (and local pools) are closed. So a pool that would have cost $350 cost me $750. Some increases are even larger.
Krash Kadillak
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
Suggestion:
Read your homeowner's insurance policy in regard to pools. Might be some exclusionary wording there in regards to pools, unless you specifically get it covered in the policy.
Suggestion:
Read your homeowner's insurance policy in regard to pools. Might be some exclusionary wording there in regards to pools, unless you specifically get it covered in the policy.
mrodgers
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
The pool built to code? It's an inexpensive seasonal pool meant to be taken down every year. For what they are, they are awesome.
bczygan
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
2 ways to test a structure.
1. Do the engineering calculations.
2. Load it to failure.
Jack, I see you decided to try the second one.
Actually, one way to check, is to measure the deflection in the middle of one of the joists under the pool. If it is less than 1/240th of the span, you're OK.
Bill
2 ways to test a structure.
1. Do the engineering calculations.
2. Load it to failure.
Jack, I see you decided to try the second one.
Actually, one way to check, is to measure the deflection in the middle of one of the joists under the pool. If it is less than 1/240th of the span, you're OK.
Bill
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Re: How to test a deck
Very cool ! Being built on pier blocks, I don't think you will have an issue.
Very cool ! Being built on pier blocks, I don't think you will have an issue.