vintage Sioux model 620 valve grinder questions

[LeakyCanoe]

hi all, long time lurker here and into vintage metal working machines and tooling.

I have come to own this as part of a larger shop machine deal and am having trouble sorting out if I have the complete machine or not. As you can see it is a vintage Sioux model 620, which I understand you grind "dry" (the later models had built-in provisions for coolant), although I have read that some owners have customized theirs with a simple add-on coolant pump system. If anyone has any further detail on that I would welcome that.

I am also trying to see if the machine is complete or not insofar as key tooling and accessories is concerned. It should because I know it was functonal before I got it but I may have missed getting the complete unit when the move out came. DAMHIKT, but I am also missing a key piece of a taper attachment that goes with a Southbend Heavy 10 so I am now nervous about all the odds and ends that comprise a complete machine like this.

I have what looks like 2 fixtures that come with it as well as one spare mandrel/spindle (?). I'd really love to find an old brochure or accessories/parts list to see what all came with this back in the day. If anyone has a scan of something like that I'd sure be grateful to secure a copy. Sioux had a lot of different models and it's proving to be harder to research online than I would have hoped.

Also coming with the machine was what I believe to be a similar era Sioux valve facing grinder (in the box with all the grinding bits). I'm looking for any extra detail on that as well. I don't rebuild engines so once I sort out what I have here I'll likely do some further research as to values and then be looking to move these along to a good home. Would I be better off to keep the 2 machines together or attempt to sell them separately when that time comes - thoughts ?

Many thanks in advance !

 

[txvwnut]

The valve grinder itself looks complete with an extra chuck and what I believe is rocker arm and lifter grinding attachments. I don’t the driver for the seat grinder setup but I think I see the cord wound up in the bottom of the cabinet.

 

[LeakyCanoe]

thanks,

I will have to look up those attachments and study up some more on them.

 

[LeakyCanoe]

...and here are some better shots of the 2 fixtures that go with the Sioux 620 valve grinder.

Surely there must be someone out there who has a manual for this machine so I an see how these all tie in and relate to the overall machine functionality - no ?

 

[Provincial]

In the old days, these grinders often had special attachments to grind more than the faces of valves.

Stems were often ground (on the lifter end) to adjust valve clearances, and there were fixtures to orient the valve stem relative to the valve face.

Lifters could be ground on either end. The cam end for proper finish or relief, or the valve end for clearance or the repair the contact surface.

There were also attachments to reface the contact surface of the rocker arm.

 

[LeakyCanoe]

...and yes, there was a valve seat grinder hidden in with those other goodies at the bottom of that metal case.

Photos of it are attached, along with a couple more of the Sioux model # 1713 dressing tool fixture that was in there too. These all go with the Sioux custom carry case as shown in photo in the original post upthread.

I have no idea if this package was sold together at the initial point of sale with the valve grinding machine or not. I suspect it was not...this valve seat grinder strikes me as being newer, but I am not sure.

Also, further to my initial inquiry, when I go to sell the 2 machines would I be better off selling them individually if someone only wanted 1 of the 2, or am I setting myself up or grief if I do separate them....suggestions ?

Thanks for looking and I appreciate your insights.

 

[Schurkey]

I have a Sioux 680 valve grinder, along with Sioux items for grinding seats. I bought them together; and then added more pilots and more stones. I had to rebuild the valve-grinder (sloppy, worn, grinding grit everywhere in the mechanism.) It now works great--I can hold .0005 concentricity or better. In fact, I was grinding used valves to be more accurate than the new replacements I bought.

Given the popularity of cheap-junk Chinese valves, grinding old valves is not as popular as it once was. At this point, you're only grinding antique valves that aren't available any more; or you're a hobbyist with time to spare. Or you're grinding back-cuts on new valves for "high performance".

Seat grinding can be done with stones; IF (big IF) you use good-quality pilots and stone-holders, and the guides are in perfect condition. Otherwise, you're using 1950s technology and getting 1950s results; and that just isn't good enough any more.

For MOST folks, the seat grinder is more useful than the valve grinder. They'll just buy new valves and not **** around with freshening-up the old ones. But if you have the accessories to refurb rocker arms and lifters, that could change the story.

 

[LeakyCanoe]

Many thanks to those who have responded so far.

I'm beginning to get some of the wisdom transfer here I was hoping for in posting this thread.

 

[Schurkey]

...and here are some better shots of the 2 fixtures that go with the Sioux 620 valve grinder.

I don't recognize that equipment. But then, my valve grinder is a different model. I have the valve tip-grinding attachment, but not the rocker or lifter-grinding stuff.

Surely there must be someone out there who has a manual for this machine so I an see how these all tie in and relate to the overall machine functionality - no ?

There's a guy on eBay ( dbensavage ) selling photocopies of Sioux equipment manuals. I bought the user manual for my 680 from him. Downside is that it's a piss-poor photocopy--looks like a third-generation copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy. Unreadable in some places, and the photos are a disaster. OTOH, it was $20 and better than nothing.

 

[LeakyCanoe]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I'm now coming around to the theory that the 2 mystery fixtures belong to a different, but similar vintage tool and cutter grinding machine.

Specifically, something like an old Kwik-Way or Leblond model like these ones.

I'm doing more online digging in an effort for a positive ID...the machine shop had all 3 of these machines operational in it once upon a time.

 

[Ayrhead]

Good Afternoon. I just picked up a Sioux model 620 as well as a model 663. Did you have any luck with finding a free manual? ive been able to locate manuals to purchase so far.
Take Care
Harry

 

[Ayrhead]

Good Afternoon. I just picked up a Sioux model 620 as well as a model 663. Did you have any luck with finding a free manual? ive been able to locate manuals to purchase so far.
Take Care
Harry

Here’s a couple of pictures of my Sioux 620 and my Sioux 663. Haven’t done much with them but I did notice that the serial # on the 663 is #2 while the 620 is #22672 5 digits compared to only 1 digit. Maybe they didn’t make too many 663’s….