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Electrical panel Working Space / Access

gamp945

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Hi all,

I understand that code requires a certain working space around the panel (as the first attached image shows).

But I'm unclear if it would be a code violation to have other electrical appliances mounted on the wall within the working area. Clearly something like shelving would be a code violation, but what about an electrical appliance that is almost flush with the wall?

In my case, I would like to mount a small through-wall ventilation fan in the same stud bay. This means that the fan would be located within the working space area shown in the first image (above the panel but less than 6.5 feet; it cannot be installed any higher). This fan's inside grille would protrude from the wall about 2.5" (image attached). Would installing the fan in this area be a code violation?

Thanks for reading!
 

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Terry D

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In my opinion, it would be fine to install the fan there as long as there would be no wires coming up from the panel blocking it
 
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gamp945

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Thanks, Terry. The romex to power the fan would run inside the wall cavity from the panel up to the fan.
 

yatg

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Don't think so. Just because the fan is electrical doesn't mean its "associated with the electrical installation" which would be allowed in the working space. Not only is your fan location in the working space, its also in the dedicated space. This is the space directly above and below the panel footprint.

NEC 2017 110.26(E)(1)
(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width
and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a
height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural
ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical
installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or
other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be
located in this zone.
 
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gamp945

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yatg: thanks a lot. Based on your post a ventilation fan is definitely not allowed in the same stud bay. You saved me from making a big mistake!

What about installing it in the adjacent stud bay? That would be in the working space but not in the dedicated space.
 

yatg

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You're not supposed to have anything in the working space that isn't related to the electrical installation.

The panel doesn't need to be centered in the working space. You can mount the fan to the left or right of the panel so long as the panel is somewhere in that working space "box", 30" wide, 3' in front.
 
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gamp945

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Got it - I'll just have to figure out a location for the fan that makes sense that isn't in the panel's working space. Thanks again.

A related question: is having an electrical outlet in the panel's working space considered a code violation, or could that be considered part of the electrical installation?
 

Brandon_oma#692

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Got it - I'll just have to figure out a location for the fan that makes sense that isn't in the panel's working space. Thanks again.

A related question: is having an electrical outlet in the panel's working space considered a code violation, or could that be considered part of the electrical installation?

Great question. I did that on both sub panels in my garage. It made sense to me for my needs but now I am wondering if it is a violation.
 

Terry D

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I think you guys are thinking to hard on this. there is nothing wrong with a receptacle being there. I still think the fan is ok also. This is meant for foreign equipment other than electric. Piping for gas , water , air ducts, etc. What about 2 panels that are right next to each other. What about timers and contactors above a panel or nippled to it. Now don't get me wrong, mounting some kind of huge electrical cabinet next to or below or above the panel that would interfere with the maintenance or service of that panel would be a violation.
 
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CJ7VFR

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Like Terry D said, I thought the code was meant for keeping the area clear so the electrical panel could be worked on and accessed easily for repairs, replacements and basic maintenance? Such as being able to fully open the panel door, or to remove the entire front of the panel and be able to place it easily on the floor in the access area.

You don't want stuff in the way so that an electrician, inspector or similar person can get to the panel without tripping over things, or having to remove things from the area. We went thru this a lot at work. People would constantly put things like a copy machine or stack things up on the floor right in front of electrical panels all over the facility.

We were constantly getting notices to remove the items or we would be in violation of the NEC code for accessing the electrical panel.

But at the same time there was never any notices about light switches, receptacles, HVAC in wall vents, or anything else that was in the wall in the described panel access area that would inhibit the access and maintenance to the panels.

Jim
 
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gamp945

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I think you guys are thinking to hard on this. there is nothing wrong with a receptacle being there. I still think the fan is ok also. This is meant for foreign equipment other than electric. Piping for gas , water , air ducts, etc. What about 2 panels that are right next to each other. What about timers and contactors above a panel or nippled to it. Now don't get me wrong, mounting some kind of huge electrical cabinet next to or below or above the panel that would interfere with the maintenance or service of that panel would be a violation.

The through-wall fan does have a short air duct - does that make it more of an electrical equipment item or foreign equipment? I wonder if part of the reason for this part of the code is to prevent ducting or piping from potentially dripping water or condensation on top of the electrical panel?
 
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alfredeneuman

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NEC 2017 110.26(E)(1)
(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width
and depth of the equipment
and extending from the floor to a
height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural
ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical
installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or
other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be
located in this zone.

That does not include the whole workspace, just the equipment itself

If you look further down the page>>
(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space required by 110.26(E)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.
 
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larry4406

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I have had to move hvac duct work out of the dedicated space vertical projection above the electric panel on one of our house types.
 

yatg

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If you look further down the page>>

If you look further up this page
This means that the fan would be located within the working space area shown in the first image (above the panel but less than 6.5 feet; it cannot be installed any higher).

yatg said:
In the unlikely case his fan intake is 6" or less, he can mount it above the 6' mark and below his 6.5 foot limit.
Nope, can't do this either. See below.
 
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Terry D

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The through-wall fan does have a short air duct - does that make it more of an electrical equipment item or foreign equipment? I wonder if part of the reason for this part of the code is to prevent ducting or piping from potentially dripping water or condensation on top of the electrical panel?
Im still saying the fan is fine. It is only protruding 2.5 inches out past the wall per your picture

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app
 

alfredeneuman

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If you look further up this page
In the unlikely case his fan intake is 6" or less, he can mount it above the 6' mark and below his 6.5 foot limit.
It still doesn't include the whole workspace as you would lead us to believe:bounce:
Just the panel itself
 

yatg

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It still doesn't include the whole workspace as you would lead us to believe:bounce:
Just the panel itself

There's two rules at play, working space 110.26(A) and dedicated equipment space 110.26(E). As it turns out, they don't overlap.

TLDR. If you don't want to be questioned about it, don't put anything non electrical related on the wall in the working space area from floor to ceiling.

Here's what the NEC says about working space:
110.26(A)
(1) Depth of Working Space. The depth of the working space
in the direction of live parts shall not be less than that specified
in Table 110.26(A)(1) unless the requirements of
110.26(A)(1)(a), (A)(1)(b), or (A)(1)(c) are met. Distances
shall be measured from the exposed live parts or from the
enclosure or opening
if the live parts are enclosed.

(2) Width of Working Space. The width of the working space
in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width of the
equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater. In all
cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree opening
of equipment doors or hinged panels.

(3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be clear
and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to a height of
2.0 m (6-1∕2 ft) or the height of the equipment, whichever is
greater. Within the height requirements of this section, other
equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and
is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be
permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the
front of the electrical equipment.


I'm saying "panel" here instead of "electrical equipment" because that's where these questions typically come up.

(1) says working space depth is measured from the front of the panel.
(3) says the working space must be clear. I interpret that as nothing should be in the working space. If there's something in the NEC that says otherwise, let me know where.
(3) also implies other electrical equipment may be in the working space, and that it can come into the working space up to 6" if its above or below the panel, but can't come into the working space if its mounted to the sides?

If the panel is surface mounted, (1) says the working space starts at the front of the panel. Implies you can put non-electrical stuff on the wall as long as that stuff doesn't stick out past the front of the panel, typically 3-1/2".

If the panel is flush mounted, (1) still says the working space starts at the front of the panel, which would be the wall. You can't put any non electrical stuff on the wall since it would be in the working space.

110.26(E) Dedicated Equipment Space
(1) Indoor. Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26(E)
(1)(a) through (E)(1)(d).
(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width
and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a
height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural
ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical
installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or
other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be
located in this zone.


For example, if a typical panel is surface mounted, there's a 3-1/2" x 14" column from the floor to ceiling that's the dedicated space.

If the panel is flush mounted, the dedicated space is in the wall.

Only items related to the electrical system are allowed in the dedicated space. For example, a welder receptacle off the bottom of a surface mount panel.

(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space
required by 110.26(E)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain
foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid
damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks,
or breaks in such foreign systems


If you happen to have really tall walls, the dedicated space ends 6' ABOVE the top of the panel and you'd be OK putting stuff way up there.

Back to the OP's original question, since you said you want to mount the fan above the panel and IN THE SAME STUD BAY you can't do it. Has nothing to do with working space, but you'd be in the dedicated space.
 

alfredeneuman

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You're not supposed to have anything in the working space that isn't related to the electrical installation.
:confused:
Back to the OP's original question, since you said you want to mount the fan above the panel and IN THE SAME STUD BAY you can't do it.
The cite I gave does not exclude the same stud bay ;) I don't know why you surmised that you can't do it
 
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nadogail

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IMHO, if the fan in any way impedes access to the panel than I think it would be a problem. On the other hand; if the fan is not in the way of getting to the panel then again IMHO it would not be a problem.

My advice is guaranteed to be worth exactly what you pay for it and any requests for refund must be accompanied by a receipt for the payment.
 
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gamp945

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Wow, this part of the written code seems clear as mud to me :confused:

@yatg: your explanation of the code seems pretty clear that my fan cannot be in the dedicated space, meaning above or below the panel.

However, I'm less sure about whether or not the fan can be in the working space. I'm tempted to put the fan in the adjacent stud bay which would be outside of the dedicated space, but still within the working space. For space reasons, I'd strongly prefer not to move it over two stud bays, even though that would clearly be outside of the working space.

Any other thoughts on this installation issue?
 
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