New wiring: 0-10v dimming wire

[yeldogt]

Contractor/electrical meeting yesterday.

My project is complex and very tight ... My guess is the best way to wire 0-10v dimmers with control wires to LED fixtures is using the quad wire. I can't really find any codes on this .... seems some run two cables .. even singles??

I don't have much room for wires and boxes .... My hope is we can get away with a lot of 14g for much of the house .. 12g is a pain w/ dimmers in crowded boxes.

The guys will do what I want obviously --

I have pulled most of the outside stuff except the code required lights at doors into a mechanical room just to eliminate the visible switches. I may try some of the wireless stuff -- but, the future compatibility is always a concern

 

[cybrdyke]

Not sure what your question is...
CD

 

[yeldogt]

What's the best way to wire -- is there a special 2 conductor wire available just for the control wires?

 

[jptbay]

Funny you should ask this. If you want armor cable look at luminary cable. It has all power and control cable in one.

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but... I feel my question is relevant to you also getting the answer you need.

I just started installing my LED high bays. I have 4 up so far. 2 on either side of the junction box on the ceiling.

I am using surface mount 14/2 AC90 armor cable for the power, and used 18/2 solid un-shielded thermostat wire for the 0-10v signal.

Problem is 2 of the lights on one side of the junction box will not shut off completely.

I'm using a Lutron Powpak wireless box. All 4 lights fully dim and go to full brightness, but when you try to shut them off, they all go dim then two shut off completely like the should, and 2 stay on at the dimmest setting.

I have read that 0-10v can be susceptible to stray voltage and interference, so I think I should rewire the 0-10V circuit with a shielded cable instead.

Any experience with this? Is shielded the way to go for 0-10v dimming circuits?

Thanks.

 

[JeepinMike]

I just used this for the wire for the dimmer - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J4E0KO8/?tag=atomicindus08-20. 3 lights connected per dimmer, completely separate from the power.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

If you're asking if there is a cable for this, then yes, southwire makes a 12/ with 16/2 mc cable.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...r-and-Control-Signal-Cable-59225901/303654307

Running the dimming wires separate with something like thermostat wire is also an option, but where I am, they would have to be separated from the line voltage throughout the installation... this mean barriers in the lights, separate boxes, etc to keep the wiring separate. Some light fixtures this is possible and some are not.

I've also wired them with line voltage rated wiring, and with that, I don't have to worry, but it also means the wiring will be 14awg or bigger.

Now, this is based off of codes where I am, and will likely be different from where you are.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[jptbay]

Funny you should ask this. If you want armor cable look at luminary cable. It has all power and control cable in one.

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but... I feel my question is relevant to you also getting the answer you need.

I just started installing my LED high bays. I have 4 up so far. 2 on either side of the junction box on the ceiling.

I am using surface mount 14/2 AC90 armor cable for the power, and used 18/2 solid un-shielded thermostat wire for the 0-10v signal.

Problem is 2 of the lights on one side of the junction box will not shut off completely.

I'm using a Lutron Powpak wireless box. All 4 lights fully dim and go to full brightness, but when you try to shut them off, they all go dim then two shut off completely like the should, and 2 stay on at the dimmest setting.

I have read that 0-10v can be susceptible to stray voltage and interference, so I think I should rewire the 0-10V circuit with a shielded cable instead.

Any experience with this? Is shielded the way to go for 0-10v dimming circuits?

Thanks.

Found this from a 0-10v best practices pdf:

Whenever any part of the control circuit (the driver, dimmer or wire used) is designed for use in a Class 2
installation, it is critical that the entire control circuit be kept separate from Class 1 line voltage wiring per
the requirements of National Electric Code section 725.136. The electrical drawings must clearly separate
Class 1 and Class 2 wiring. Separation is required because high voltage wiring may induce AC voltages on
the low voltage control wiring causing unpredictable and undesirable artifacts in the dimmed fixtures. Never
run line voltage and low voltage wiring in the same conduit and provide sufficient separation in raceway installations. The 1004 and SNAP controllers should not be used where Class 1 wiring methods are required
as they are not compatible with Class 1 drivers.
All 0-10VDC wiring should be done with shielded pair wiring with the shield grounded to earth at the
controller. The pair does not need to be twisted. We particularly recommend this when low end dimming
performance is of high importance. Unshielded analog control wiring runs can act like antennae. Radiated
emissions (from transformers, radio transmitters, motors, etc.) can be collected by the unshielded analog
control wiring and then interpreted by the driver as changes in the control voltage which will result in a
flicker effect. When the number of drivers on a particular control channel is small, the effect can be
pronounced because there is less current in the control loop than there would be with a larger number of
drivers.

 

[cybrdyke]

Funny you should ask this. If you want armor cable look at luminary cable. It has all power and control cable in one.

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but... I feel my question is relevant to you also getting the answer you need.

I just started installing my LED high bays. I have 4 up so far. 2 on either side of the junction box on the ceiling.

I am using surface mount 14/2 AC90 armor cable for the power, and used 18/2 solid un-shielded thermostat wire for the 0-10v signal.

Problem is 2 of the lights on one side of the junction box will not shut off completely.

I'm using a Lutron Powpak wireless box. All 4 lights fully dim and go to full brightness, but when you try to shut them off, they all go dim then two shut off completely like the should, and 2 stay on at the dimmest setting.

I have read that 0-10v can be susceptible to stray voltage and interference, so I think I should rewire the 0-10V circuit with a shielded cable instead.

Any experience with this? Is shielded the way to go for 0-10v dimming circuits?

Thanks.

If you turn off power to the Powpak, power to the fixture is cut off. This includes the 0-10v circuit, which is generated inside the driver. There is nothing else in the circuit that can send power to the fixtures to keep them on, even at a low level. If they are staying on, then they are getting power from somewhere. If I had to guess, I'd say it's from a shared neutral wire or something is mis-wired.
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

What's the best way to wire -- is there a special 2 conductor wire available just for the control wires?

There are specific wires, but you can use practically any wire. Try to get 16 or 18 AWG solid copper. Shielding isn't required. Twisting isn't required.
CD

 

[jptbay]

If you turn off power to the Powpak, power to the fixture is cut off. This includes the 0-10v circuit, which is generated inside the driver. There is nothing else in the circuit that can send power to the fixtures to keep them on, even at a low level. If they are staying on, then they are getting power from somewhere. If I had to guess, I'd say it's from a shared neutral wire or something is mis-wired.
CD

Thanks for the reply.

If I turn off power to the Powpak, all the lights go off. It's only when I use the remote control, or the off button on the Powpak, do the 2 lights stay on. I'm going to look at the 0-10v wiring on that side that is malfunctioning. Something must be amiss.