How to mate to nonstandard brass pipe?

[benzor]

Hi Everyone!

It is a great time to be doing projects.

I'm trying to run a new water line, so I can wash the cars outside of the garage. We have an existing brass pipe, but it is full of pinholes. I need to reuse the location where the pipe goes through the foundation, so I'm trying to mate up to the stub of the old pipework with a 1/2in PEX I've run.

Here's the rub.

The old brass pipe is not 5/8 or 3/4 standard sizes. I've tried compression fittings for both, and 5/8 is too small and 3/4 is too loose.

The pipe measures 0.773in OD and 0.601 ID (which is closest to 19/32 and 25/32). It is threaded at 20TPI, but I'm imagining that it will be easier to cut threads off and mate to the cut section.

Is there a plumbing technology that doesn't require an exact fit, something like a "crimp on" fitting ?

Your thoughts appreciated.

 

[twistedstang]

You sure it isnt 1/2" NPT? Std pipe sizes are nominal, not OD. The compression fittings may be refrigeration sizes for copper tubing and not NPT

 

[NUTTSGT]

You're using brass compression fittings ? That pipe should be NPT, national pipe thread. They are different.


EDIT: Twisted and I were typing at the same time.

 

[pancho400cid]

As said...

The nominal size of standard schedule pipe does not match any physical dimension on the pipe (until you get to 14 inch - when the OD matches the nominal size).

1/2" schedule 40 pipe = .840" OD, .622" ID
3/4" schedule 40 pipe = 1.050" OD, .824" ID
1" schedule 40 pipe = 1.315" OD, 1.049" ID

Compression fittings are for tubing where the OD can be specified as the nominal size (i.e. 1/2" OD tubing has a .500" OD within manufacturing tolerances and would work with 1/2" compression fittings).

...

 

[bob15]

Looks like pipe thread, but your OD and thread pitch (20 TPI) do not match any NPT threads

 

[Wrench97]

Old brass pipe could also be fine thread, I grew up in a 1800's farm house that had fine thread brass/bronze pipe it was a pita until it was finally replumbed.
Does the 1/2" copper slide inside it? We had many repairs that were done that way.
If you see stains at the end of the brass near the fittings don't touch the pipe unless you prepared to start replacing it........................

 

[twistedstang]

1/2" copper is 5/8 OD and shouldnt fit inside of it. 1/2" OD copper tubing is a refrigeration size and shouldnt be used for plumbing.

My money is still on 1/2" npt threaded joints

 

[The Cobbler]

agree It looks like NP threads , whatever it is, it was $$$$

 

[BD1]

1/2" copper is 5/8 OD and shouldnt fit inside of it. 1/2" OD copper tubing is a refrigeration size and shouldnt be used for plumbing.

My money is still on 1/2" npt threaded joints

Say what ?? Why can't you use it for plumbing ? Copper is copper. Refrigeration tubing is cleaned and some have a nitrogen charge. It can be used for plumbing and it's used for natural gas and propane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You sure it isnt 1/2" NPT? Std pipe sizes are nominal, not OD. The compression fittings may be refrigeration sizes for copper tubing and not NPT

X2 on the refrigeration tubing being measured OD, but just FYI, compression fittings aren't used in refrigeration/HVAC.

If the origin tubing is really brass, I'd braze some sort of fitting to adapt to the pex.

Tommy

 

[59 wagon man]

it is called tp brass pipe i believe . its a little thicker then copper old time stuff fittings were usually brased. grew up repairing it in brooklyn ny

 

[sberry]

I would knock it right out. Put in new. Actually a 1/2 tubing would go thru, drill it up a little and 5/8 would.

 

[matt_i]

Buy the time you scrap all that brass you could probably pay for PEX and get a bite to eat too. I'm with tearing it out and replacing with standard, especially if a part of it is already compromised and leaking thru the sidewall that says to me that the rest can't be far behind.

 

[twistedstang]

Say what ?? Why can't you use it for plumbing ? Copper is copper. Refrigeration tubing is cleaned and some have a nitrogen charge. It can be used for plumbing and it's used for natural gas and propane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you want an undersized line I guess. 1/2" OD tubing would equate to 3/8" copper plumbing.

 

[twistedstang]

X2 on the refrigeration tubing being measured OD, but just FYI, compression fittings aren't used in refrigeration/HVAC.

If the origin tubing is really brass, I'd braze some sort of fitting to adapt to the pex.

Tommy

Sorry, at work we refer to OD sized copper tubing as refrigeration tubing. You're correct.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Replace it or cut off the end and rethread it.

 

[sberry]

Buy the time you scrap all that brass you could probably pay for PEX and get a bite to eat too. I'm with tearing it out and replacing with standard, especially if a part of it is already compromised and leaking thru the sidewall that says to me that the rest can't be far behind.

This, I wouldn't want a cobble job in that space. I had it happen once, its a real problem and will outright destroy the place.

 

[benzor]

Thanks for all the replies! I'm very appreciative.

I'll try to answer questions :

- I am converting the inbound system to PEX, but need to mate to brass when it transits through foundation. I don't want the headache of drilling a new hole in foundation.
- 1/2 copper doesn't fit into ID, but that was an interesting idea!
- It is definitely a water line, not refrigeration in terms of use (but I've disconnected it). That's not to say that some plumber in the 1950s may not have accidentally use refrigeration line accidentally.
- I don't care at all about the threads - happy to cut it off
- I'm not wedded to compression fittings - that was just my first attempt. Actively looking for other ideas
- I did try a 5/8 and 3/4 sharkbite. The 3/4 was too oversized to work, the 5/8 was predictably too small.

I did some more research and someone suggested reamed fittings, looking into it.

All else fails I could try to get it out of the hole (cemented in), but trying to avoid it.

On your suggestion I'll probably take a cut off piece of pipe into a local plumbing store.

 

[Wrench97]

Does the outside of the pipe measure .625(5/8")?
https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy...MI_5SIxrCb6gIVw9SzCh1dhgfdEAQYBSABEgISE_D_BwE

 

[benzor]

Unfortunately not - outside diameter (OD) is 0.773in. I checked a couple of locations

 

[twistedstang]

Did you try unscrewing a piece and screwing a 1/2" NPT Male thread into the 90?

 

[benzor]

That's a good "idiot test" (ha!). I suspect it won't work, but will try !

 

[Wrench97]

Know anyone with a 1/2" npt pipe die? I would probably try it, but looking at the first pics you posted I have to believe once upon a time it was a standard size.
Is this city water or well?

 

[theoldwizard1]

I would knock it right out. Put in new. Actually a 1/2 tubing would go thru, drill it up a little and 5/8 would.

Sooner rather than later, the rest of that pipe will fail. PEX is the answer !

 

[driftpin]

Yes, I'm with removing it, abandon in-place or otherwise not re-using the pipe/tube in the foundation. New work for trouble-free longevity.

 

[benzor]

This is city water

 

[Wrench97]

Might be interesting to see how it's connected to the meter.
If it's the same pipe I'll bet the water dept will know what it is.

 

[59 wagon man]

tp brass use to get the adapters all the time in brooklyn to convert to nearest size copper. looks like the fittings are brazed to me

 

[twistedstang]

Agreed. That would explain the smaller OD. If you blow the pic up, it looks like a brazed adapter before the 90

 

[mike93lx]

That would be a horrible place to have a leak. I agree on removing it and replacing the whole thing. If part is already covered in pinholes, the rest isn't far behind

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd replace it all if it was mine. Even going through the foundation might be a PITA, but better now than later, like during the winter.

Replace it with PEX. That stuff is a godsend to old house remodeling.

 

[claymont]

You already got a hole in the wall drill it out bigger, say 1" - 11/4" and drill it at an angle to soften up the bend on the pex. After you're hooked up, fill the hole with silicon caulk to form a protective grommet around the pex.

 

[Aq8603]

Hi, did you ever get an answer, I just bought a 100 year old house and I have a similar problem.