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Help! Finalizing Epoxy Order.

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Nch209

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Dec 7, 2009
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Northern Virgina
Hello All!

I've been lurking here, as I made the huge mistake of using Behr water based on our aprox 500sq garage. I've been removing the paint for the past week, and got it etched well and now need to order epoxy...

While very subjective, do any of the following options seem better than another? Any opinions on what I should do?

Options-
1. Thebeancounter option- performance epoxy. 5/5 base and 5gal
clear. This option will allow for THICK coverage, and material left over, and at $450, a great deal. But is too thick not a good thing, and the clear seems to be a 1 part that's not uv protectant? Sun isn't a problem, but is a 2 part better?

2. Epoxy- coat option. Buy one full kit, and one full clear two part kit. I'm worried about propery coverage, and don't want to run short. Seems like a good option, but the "curb" around the perimeter is going to
use a good bit I think.

3. Wolverine 1101, 2254,1184 kit. Seems like a quality kit, but comes
with a premium price. You get what you pay for, but I'm in need to keep a budget. Had I not went the behr route- this would a top choice.

I want a nice garage, within a decent budget, that I don't regret n the future. I've read pages upon pages here all helped greatly, but this is my last effort not to miss the boat!

Great board, and thanks In advance for reading/posting!

Thanks
Nate
 
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Kingham

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Austin Texas
well... you learned what product not to use on the floor and how much extra has it really cost you going the cheap route.. I hope others can learn from you before it cost them all that extra time, money and sweat equity.

Option 1: will work and you can cut the product down a little by 10% to thin it down a little. you can also mix up smaller batches to use what you need.

Option 2. sorry.. as much as you want to believe... one kit of epoxy coat will not cover 500 sq/ft.. you need 2 kits of each to make sure you have enough to cover your square footage

Option 3. yep... you get what you pay for... good chemicals are not cheap.

best of luck with your decision....
 
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Nch209

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Northern Virgina
Thanks! Still making up my mind- some phone calls are in order, then I will snap some pics!

I WISH I had found this place years ago! That water based stuff is for the birds...

Thanks!
Nate
 
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TheBanker

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Franklin, Tn
I used epoxy-coat too and like their product. I had 480 sq ft and ran a little short due to the risers and such and the way i put it down. If I were you, I would price one plus a half kit and put it all down. It can't be to thick. The clear you can problably do one kit unless you want it really thick too. The clear seems to go further. If you can afford it, wolvierene looks to be a really good product.
 
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AlphaGarage

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Every Garage, AnyTown, USA
There are a couple of factors that makes it difficult to compare systems. First of course is the quality of the product, there you just need to do your research, but even if you assume all epoxies are equal (not close to reality - no more than every automobile model - from Kia to Aston Martin - being the same) it's tough to get a handle on some basic specifics, like quantities included in your order - and what that translates to on your floor when it's all cured.

With most coating systems it's safe to say that generally a thicker coat will outperform a thinner coat. Thicker hides more blemishes and irregularities, and more critically a thicker coating will handle wear and impact better.

The final thickness of a coating system is pretty easy to figure out given a few facts; how much material is included, the % solids in the material, and the square footage to be covered (waste at 10% is pretty much even across the board).

The problem is that with a lot of kits it's not always easy to figure out how much material you're getting and what the solids content is. The MSDS will usually have the solids data. And sometimes you need to do a bit more digging to find all that info.

Also, if a kit can coat "up to 600 square feet," that same kit could coat up to 1,200; it would just be half as thin. Clearly without knowing the manufacturer's recommended dry film thickness (DFT), the exact quantity of materials in the kit, and the solids contents of those materials, it's difficult to zero in on exactly what you'll end up with when all is said and done. And without that data it's almost impossible to compare different systems.

I would write "Hope that helps..." but I'm guessing it probably didn't - sorry about that!
 
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gabeancounter

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east bumble
The kit is 5 gallons base color and 5 gallons clear with 5 gal hardner. Both are the exact same epoxy 2part. The EXTRA clear coat I was thinking about adding was an additional UV protectant. i did not use it.

I suggest you save a gallon out of each container as a touch up kit. Then apply the rest. Should give u 40mil floor. Nothing close to a kia.
 
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texas-saluki

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Mar 14, 2010
Messages
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is it too thick or too thin, how to know?

AlphaGarage said:
if a kit can coat "up to 600 square feet," that same kit could coat up to 1,200; it would just be half as thin. Clearly without knowing the manufacturer's recommended dry film thickness (DFT), the exact quantity of materials in the kit, and the solids contents of those materials, it's difficult to zero in on exactly what you'll end up with when all is said and done. And without that data it's almost impossible to compare different systems.
Click to expand...

Fred, I am still lurking around and I have a question on this... how do you apply the material thicker in a single coat or is this a Multi coat statement? I would think (maybe incorrectly) that the material could only go on at the thickness it was designed to unless you spread it too thin maybe by over working it?? :confused: If there is another "educational" thread that I missed please let me know :)
 
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Nch209

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Almost have my mind made up- one little snag to figure out... I'll let you all know what I decide and why I decided sometime tommorow evening. Great info- and many good points!

Thanks!
Nate
 
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AlphaGarage

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texas-saluki said:
Fred, I am still lurking around and I have a question on this... how do you apply the material thicker in a single coat or is this a Multi coat statement? I would think (maybe incorrectly) that the material could only go on at the thickness it was designed to unless you spread it too thin maybe by over working it??
Click to expand...

First off - welcome to the forum! You pose a good question, but I’m going to respond with a not so good answer… For application instructions to a specific product you should check with the manufacturer or distributor.

Sounds like, and is, a cop out, but it's really the best answer. There are several different classes of floor coatings, and they have different application recommendations.

For example, with our system there are 3 layers: a primer, a body coat, and a clear coat. Our primer coat is BondTite 1101, a 100% solids, 2 part epoxy, we recommend it be applied at 5 mils. Now you could apply it 10, 15, 20 mils thick, won't hurt anything, will actually be better than just 5 mils, but no reason to go that thick for the primer. Better to take that extra money and apply it to the body coat.

Our body coat would be LiquaTile 1184, another 100% solids, 2 part epoxy; it's spec'd at 12 mils thick. Now if you have a very punishing environment, one with lots of heavy things being dragged and dropped, this is the coat you'd want to go thicker with. Some industrial settings require a single layer to be 100 mils thick, or more. Now at some thickness there are more cost effective solutions - but the point is there's no harm in applying the LiquaTile 1184 thicker – way thicker. However that’s not the case with every coating...

One being our clear coat - EnduraShield 2254. You don't want to apply it too thick because put down over 8 mils wet there's a chance that as the EnduraShield cures small bubbles will form in the clear coat. Although the bubbles won't affect the durability, they certainly won't look good in your brand new floor. So if you want the benefits of more clear coat it’d be best to build up that thickness by laying down multiple coats, none exceeding 8 mils wet.

With some other materials applying them too thick will negatively affect the durability, or in some cases prevent them from ever fully curing at all - not good.

On the other end of the scale it’s also possible to apply a coating too thin and affect its performance. Besides wearing down prematurely you risk not fully covering imperfections and having existing colors or stains show through.

Now then, if you want a thicker coat than the minimum recommendation, and there’s no problem with building it thicker, is it better to use multiple thin coats or put down one thick one? That can depend a bit on what the specifics are. If the substrate has a rough texture, and you want to smooth it out, and you have enough material, your best bet is to go with a single thick coating. But if you’re not sure you have enough material to flood the substrate, or you want to retain some of the texture, generally multiple thin coats are a better way to go.

My examples used Wolverine Coatings Corporation floor coating products because I’m familiar with them, but most all coating products have a recommended minimum thickness, and frequently a maximum thickness as well. So while working with floor coatings more often than not thicker is better, do not assume that’s the case every time. It bears repeating - For application instructions to a specific product you should always check with the manufacturer or distributor.
 
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Nch209

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Well I placed my order today. For my needs, the "bean counter special"
suited best. The only bump in the road was having to ship it to a business, but a buddy of mine got that figured out! I've been reading tons of info about epoxys, and in the end PE fit the bill.

This forum is full of info, and a great resource- so glad I found it. Now time to order flakes and misc items for the install...

Pics to come later...
Thanks
Nate
 
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rugerlady

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Michigan
Nate,
Thanks for the order. Let me know if you have any questions. I will help with anything I can. If you need any help with flakes and tools, there are a couple people that ordered off ebay. They may be able to help you.
 
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TheBanker

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Franklin, Tn
yes off of ebay but it is a company called norkad which is related to color chips. search ebay for overages on color combos or you can get bulk orders at great prices too with any colors you want. they have the "good" spike shoes for 19 bucks also.
 
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rugerlady

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TheBanker said:
yes off of ebay but it is a company called norkad which is related to color chips. search ebay for overages on color combos or you can get bulk orders at great prices too with any colors you want. they have the "good" spike shoes for 19 bucks also.
Click to expand...

I thought it was you that had that info...thanks for posting it for him :beer:
 
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Nch209

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Dec 7, 2009
Messages
349
Location
Northern Virgina
I order from that eBay company too! Been watching their flake auctions for a while, and order via phone yesterday. Both them and PE were GREAT to deal
with.
 
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