That Bridgeport WILL come out one way or another...

[Zaxxn]

So, somehow this Bridgeport came into my life. Wasn't in the budget for another year or two originally, but the seller made it fit this year's budget, and in the mint condition it was I couldn't resist. I mean, how often do you see a dealer maintained (documented), all white BP with table and ways that look almost new? From what I gather, it was sitting unused for a while though. Seems to be a mid/late 80's model most likely. It's a regular J-Head, but that's ok. For the price and condition I definitely deal with belt changes. She runs quiet and smooth.

Obviously there is always a "gotcha". As with everything. Nothing isn't too good to be true In this case, the person's shop (and a nice shop it is!) is in the basement. Yup. Luckily there is a hatchway to the outside of the house. And more luckily, one of my best friends owns a towing and recovery company. So, I do have access to all kinds of equipment/trucks/talent.

I read a lot of threads on here and on the other regular suspects (machinist forums, etc.), but most of them deal with getting machines INTO basement shops, not out of them. But with a lot of information from these threads, here is my plan:

Heading there with a roll back flatbed and a boom wrecker. It's about a 40 mile trip one way. Bringing slings, chains, wood, chainfalls, come-a-longs, pallet jack, lifting eye for the BP, etc.

Take off the table, all hand wheels and other easy stuff, swivel the head 180 around, block of wood to stabilize the head to the knee, and use the pallet jack to move the BP to the stairs in the hatchway. I attached a masterpiece of art to illustrate. Basically build a little half crate on the side of the BP, back the wrecker up to the hatchway, sling the BP as in the manual to the wrecker's hook and attach a chain fall or come-a-long for a more controlled descent of the BP into the diagonal position as the wrecker begins to pull. Once the BP's wooden "crate/sled" is laying on the wood covering the stairs, the wrecker should be able to back up some while booming/winching in and then yank the BP out of the hole, bring it over to the tilted bed roll back, and we'll winch it up and strap it there for transport.

So, that's the plan. And yes, those things do weigh 2,000lbs, so no helpers in reach of a mishap obviously. Unloading will happen at my shop with the forklift.

Since I never transported or plucked one of these things out of a basement, any ideas to do this better? Anything glaringly obvious I am thinking about totally wrong here? I have to admit I am mulling over this non-stop ever since striking this deal, and this seemed the best solution so far, considering that I have access to the equipment as described (and other stuff, if needed!).

Thanks already in advance for your help and thoughts, everyone!
--Zax

 

[OneOfEm]

Your friend should be able to easily pull it out with the winch on the wrecker assuming that the stairs and your sled can handle the weight.

It's probably more like 1,200 lbs, for what it's worth.

 

[BillK]

How about taking the head off and moving it separately ? That way its not so top heavy ?

 

[BuffettFan]

Pretty easy to separate the head from the column if weight is an issue getting it out.

I've moved some big stuff out of tight places over the years.
If someone got it in there, it will come out!
Good luck and be safe.

Edit: Looks like Bill and I are on the same page.

 

[Zaxxn]

How about taking the head off and moving it separately ? That way its not so top heavy ?

I was certainly thinking about that, but when I saw how much lower the machine is with the head turned 180 degrees I thought it won't be that top heavy anymore. Not sure what it entails to re-attach the head and tram everything and such...never really worked on a BP. They aren't really that popular back home ;-)

 

[Zaxxn]

Your friend should be able to easily pull it out with the winch on the wrecker assuming that the stairs and your sled can handle the weight.

It's probably more like 1,200 lbs, for what it's worth.

Oh weird! I always thought the machine (It's a Series 1) was about 2,000, minus the 250lbs of the table. Either way, we're grabbing one of the bigger International wreckers, so it shouldn't be a problem lifting the weight.

 

[ez-duzit]

How about taking the head off...?

That should be #1 consideration.

 

[Zaxxn]

Pretty easy to separate the head from the column if weight is an issue getting it out.

I've moved some big stuff out of tight places over the years.
If someone got it in there, it will come out!
Good luck and be safe.

Edit: Looks like Bill and I are on the same page.

Hahaha, yes, you are, and I will definitely do so if I have to. Rather safe than sorry, always! Thank you!

 

[matt_i]

Imo, take head off. Table off if you need the width reduction.

I would support any stairway, vertically, at 2 points so you have a total of 4 supports, the two ends and the 4 columns. There is going to be a very definite side-load on the staircase, so imo it would also be prudent to brace it against concrete horizontally as well depending on the configuration but I'm guessing its close to an exterior wall.

Dragging it up an incline is entirely possible, you need a balance of managing the weight and also the friction. In your sketch attaching to the very top would be a bad idea, it needs to be slung low nearer the base. I think you mentioned using a lever chain hoist as an adjustable part of a linkage, that sounds good. Ideally the horizontal pull would take place in a sideways "Y" configuration balanced between the top of the column and right above the wide base with the lever chain hoist being able to manage the length of one of those individual lines for excellent stability going up.

Be really careful once the pull starts, someone is going to be basically trapped in the basement unless there's a secondary access. They need to stay out of the "return path" at all times until its completed.

Some consideration needs to take place for any "finished floors" that the mill could traverse on its way out of the building.

Always good to take extra pieces of multi-layer cardboard, old jeans or old bathmats to cushion slings against sharp machined edges and on painted surfaces.

On your "sled" a lower leading-edge with a definite 45 degree chamfer would be very beneficial to keep it from digging in. Its possible that bent-sheetmetal could suffice but usually its easier to use a handplane/circular saw/surform plane/etc to dress the wood. So along those lines some carpentry tools like impact driver/torx screws/structural screws/circular saw/framing lumber/cribbing is always in my kit when I go on a rigging job. Other possibly useful items are crowbar, pry bar, anchor shackles, the machine can easily be lifted high enough from the floor to pallet jack height if you have an assortment of 3/8", 3/4" and 1-1/2" blocks. Just start at one corner and pry up to install a 3/8" block. Repeat until all 4 corners are at same height, now go around replacing the 3/8" with 3/4", goto 1-1/8" next and 1-1/2....keep going until you have 3-1/2 and the pallet jack will roll right underneath. You need some fulcrum stack changes as you go but a typical carpenter's crowbar can get the job done although I also have different lengths of pinch & point bars.

A little bit of dish soap would also be beneficial to reduce friction between wooden parts but its a yin & yang situation of also reducing braking resistance if the pull has to pause for any reason.

Best of luck, hope all goes well, extra preparation and supplies always save the day.

 

[Dustball]

Definitely check to make sure the stairs are strong enough.

 

[Zaxxn]

OH!

I forgot to mention that small detail - the stairs are concrete!

 

[rsanter]

Do,you have a folding cherry picker?
If not get one.

Remove the head
Remove the turret
Remove the table

Move the knee down to its lowers setting.

Move each piece out separate.
Reassemble at home

Easy

 

[Ecosta777]

If the sled is the only option, make sure you pull it out backwards - with the back of the column facing up the stairs. That way all the weight is up front and there's no risk of it spinning around on its way up

Definitely consider removing the head and ram, it will make it much less topheavy, and weigh less. Make sure to lower the knee as much as possible to reduce the center of gravity as well.

 

[Bretny]

Take the head off and possibly the table. Then lay it on it's back on a wood sled or something and winch it out. They can be very top heavy even without the head.

 

[PugetDude]

OH!

I forgot to mention that small detail - the stairs are concrete!

Congratulations, sounds like a really nice mill. We're going to need to see pics- of the move and the install.

Now, yank it out of there like a bad tooth and start making chips!

 

[Cryptic1911]

Oh weird! I always thought the machine (It's a Series 1) was about 2,000, minus the 250lbs of the table. Either way, we're grabbing one of the bigger International wreckers, so it shouldn't be a problem lifting the weight.

a series 1 j head machine is around 2000lbs

 

[Cryptic1911]

and make sure you take pics of this adventure lol

 

[ddawg16]

I would strap a sheet of plywood to it's back so you can slide it up.

The head is going to be heavy. If you can get it off....better...less chance of it getting damaged. And it will make it easier to get into your shop.

I hope you have plenty of beer for your friends.

 

[bczygan]

Remove head.

Remove arm.

Remove table.

Remove knee.

Slide small pieces up a ramp in a tray.

Slide base up alone.

Etc.

Bill

 

[FishingMan]

Base with knee on.head off.table off weighs 1400lbs . I weighed mine when it was apart

 

[Zaxxn]

I could certainly take it all apart, I don't think it's a crazy amount of work to do so, but what's involved in putting it all back together though? I mean, in a way that preserves some of that beautiful accuracy the mill seems to have right now?

And, I most definitely will take pictures...there are a few more goodies following me home from this trip

As for unloading it at my shop, I am not that worried. I've got plenty of ceiling height, 12' high bay doors and a hefty forklift available. Another reason why I would prefer to leave together at least below the head - most people that move BPs (not out of basements obviously! LOL!) grab them with some wood blocks on the forks right on the turret, which I was planning to do too to get it off the truck and into it's new home.

The reason why I figured to pull it up on it's side rather than the back was because I figured the side of the foot is longer and it would be more stable that way around. (And it would only be pulled/slid up until there is enough clearance to yank it upright out of the hole with the wrecker, which isn't too far actually! Probably would make good sense to tie a rope on a side of the machine to prevent it from spinning from afar though!)

Oh, and definitely plenty of beer for afterwards for everyone, along with most likely a smoker full of meat

 

[rct]

Although not DIY friendly, have you priced having an industrial rigger move it? Yes it will cost more than a friends wrecker, but they are professional machine movers with all the equipment and will shift responsibility for damage from you to them. You worked hard to find a clean machine, don't wreck it in the move. Just a thought to explore. It's been a long time since I messed around any machine tools, but my father once had a business selling machine tools and we often had trade-in's around the garage. A few small ones we moved, but if it was worth any money, like Bridgeports, always a pro rigger with the flatbed, forklift, rollers and straps. Good luck and enjoy your new tool!

 

[bradpac]

Cement stairs, adequate equipment. I would only remove the bare mimimum and pluck that sucker out of there.

Put it on a wood skid with a bit of blocking and it should slide right up the stairs just fine.

 

[Graham08]

I'm in the minimal disassembly camp since you have access to equipment. Before you go picking it up by the ram, make sure the bolts are tight that secure the turret and make sure the ram is locked. Sometimes the last guy that moved it leaves them loose.

There is actually quite a bit of information about this on the rigging and material handling forum at Practical Machinist.

 

[tarmy]

Get a bid from a safe moving company...they have motorized stair climbers that can easily handle that load. You may need to build a crate for it for them to grab it. They charged me by the number of stairs...

 

[Joebass]

I'd leave the head on, tilt it upside down, sling under the ram, and forget your sled. Use some 2x12s and a sheet of 16 ga steel as a ramp up the stairs. Ive moved a few, also some lathes out of a basement. To transport we always lower the knee, and flip the head.

 

[Zaxxn]

This is why I love this forum. Thank you so much for all the info so far. Lots to think about, albeit, not much time to do so, because it needs to come out next weekend, the house it's in right now is being sold...

So, on a good note, it seems that my thinking wasn't TOTALLY off base and this seems something that in some variation might actually be possible.
I think the biggest part I am still a little weary about is tipping the BP over so it lays on it's back/side/etc for the small slide up the covered stairs until we can pluck it straight out. But maybe this thought of slowly releasing the come-a-long/chainfall/etc while the wrecker pulls the mill onto it's side/back/etc might be just the ticket. That way no one needs to be close to the machine in that moment.

The type of wrecker we're using won't have an issue pulling 2,000lbs straight out of the hole. They are used for larger box trucks, etc., no need to drag the 40 ton rotator up there I think.

Also, don't think I am ignoring the recommendations about a professional equipment moving company, I just don't think I have the time nor the budget for that, especially considering that it would be a 40 mile haul as well. I am however trying to be as careful as possible, first and foremost for the sake of everyone helping, and also because I'd like to treat that mill like it seems it has always been treated.

Again, thanks for all the input so far - keep it coming, I am sure I can learn plenty still from all of you!

--Zax

 

[tarmy]

This is why I love this forum. Thank you so much for all the info so far. Lots to think about, albeit, not much time to do so, because it needs to come out next weekend, the house it's in right now is being sold...

So, on a good note, it seems that my thinking wasn't TOTALLY off base and this seems something that in some variation might actually be possible.
I think the biggest part I am still a little weary about is tipping the BP over so it lays on it's back/side/etc for the small slide up the covered stairs until we can pluck it straight out. But maybe this thought of slowly releasing the come-a-long/chainfall/etc while the wrecker pulls the mill onto it's side/back/etc might be just the ticket. That way no one needs to be close to the machine in that moment.

The type of wrecker we're using won't have an issue pulling 2,000lbs straight out of the hole. They are used for larger box trucks, etc., no need to drag the 40 ton rotator up there I think.

Also, don't think I am ignoring the recommendations about a professional equipment moving company, I just don't think I have the time nor the budget for that, especially considering that it would be a 40 mile haul as well. I am however trying to be as careful as possible, first and foremost for the sake of everyone helping, and also because I'd like to treat that mill like it seems it has always been treated.

Again, thanks for all the input so far - keep it coming, I am sure I can learn plenty still from all of you!

--Zax

I was suggesting a professional to get it out of the hole...you have access to tools/equipment to move it...just pay to get it on a pallet or base you make out of the basement. Pluck it from their and off you go...

Good luck OP...lots of pics of the move...and when you get it set up.

 

[PWC Repair]

Your friend should be able to easily pull it out with the winch on the wrecker assuming that the stairs and your sled can handle the weight.

It's probably more like 1,200 lbs, for what it's worth.

Actually a Series 1 "J" head with 42x9 table......base weight 1988# Straight out of the manual.

 

[PugetDude]

Also, don't think I am ignoring the recommendations about a professional equipment moving company, I just don't think I have the time nor the budget for that, especially considering that it would be a 40 mile haul as well. I am however trying to be as careful as possible, first and foremost for the sake of everyone helping, and also because I'd like to treat that mill like it seems it has always been treated.

Again, thanks for all the input so far - keep it coming, I am sure I can learn plenty still from all of you!

--Zax

You're focused on the loading end of the process- what does the unload/placing look like? Might be cheaper and safer in the long run to have a pro do it.

 

[nadogail]

Tell Murphy that he is not welcome to come to the meeting.

 

[matt_i]

Remove head.

Remove arm.

Remove table.

Remove knee.

Slide small pieces up a ramp in a tray.

Slide base up alone.

Etc.

Bill

I don't think you've done this before yourself otherwise you wouldn't recommend it. Pulling the knee involves removing the gib, remove attachment to raising screw and then lift in a straight line vertically up around 4 feet so it clears the Z- dovetails on the column and doesn't clunk into them or bind. Great when you have several feet of travel and an overhead hoist plus the time to shop-build a rigging device so it lifts thru the center of mass so it remains aligned, not great inside of a basement when the goal is a 1 day job.

I think you'll have to cut some underside cleats so the slideway/ramps don't start sliding themselves on the concrete. Would be ideal to also use this to attach ramps together going side-to-side.

The column-up-first is most stable as mentioned but will require some careful inching (pry up, pull 1" forward, pry up, pull 1" forward, etc) to get the heavy weight of the column pre-tilted and parallel with the inclined plane. Simply relying on the winch-pull to do that sounds like trouble. Tilting the column backwards would be easier to get started but less stable.

Its also somewhat of an issue when the peak is crested, there's going to be an inevitable tip point where its going to want to clunk over from incline to level and so managing that with inching and trying to manually tip where its mostly balanced without getting feet smashed is important.

I believe he has a forklift in his shop to unload.

Pro riggers is probably a $1500-2000 job. If you don't believe me, call for some quotes. Their prices nix a lot of deals for manual machines, for a $250k machining center its not so bad.

 

[MushCreek]

Bear in mind that the stairs are (or should be) closer to horizontal than vertical. The stairs in our house work out to about 35 degrees off of the horizontal. I would remove the ram and turret (4 bolts), lower the table and move it all the way into the column, and wrap a sling around the base behind the knee screw, and pull it up with that. Don't lay it down; keep it 'upright'. Pull it up the ramp backwards. With the strap around it, it shouldn't be able to tip. Getting it started up on to the ramp will be the hard part; perhaps use pry bars, plus have the winch pull on it until it starts up the ramp. Secure a couple wood blocks in between steps to keep the ramp from sliding. Once you start pulling, it will be more inclined to move UP, rather than down due to the friction of the sliding machine.

I had a B'Port delivered by a rigger on a rollback. It was fully assembled; he didn't even tilt the head down or upside-down. He raised the rollback quite high and just let the thing slide down the incline, controlling the descent with the winch. It scared the **** outta me, but he was an insured pro, and unloaded it without incident.

It would be interesting and useful to be able to see the actual center of gravity of a fully assembled B'Port, and one with the turret and ram removed. Then you would know the exact tipping point.

 

[bugnut]

A lot of good suggestions and I am inclined to go with mushcreeks, I would reduce the contact surface by placing pipe or 1x's under the piece coming up the stairs. Also I would advise to insure that it is in some sort of track so it could not go sideways only up and down. Might be as simple as a couple 2x's hanging on each side of the stairs but I would insure it can't get off the stairs.

 

[Dustball]

Its also somewhat of an issue when the peak is crested, there's going to be an inevitable tip point where its going to want to clunk over from incline to level and so managing that with inching and trying to manually tip where its mostly balanced without getting feet smashed is important.

Very good point here. When dragging the mill up the stairs- once it reaches the top, it'll want to fall over and lay flat on the floor. You'll need a plan for the top of the stairs.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

After moving one a year ago, I would remove the two bolts holding the motor on, remove motor, then remove the 4 bolts holding the quill head and remove that. Neither are two heavy for a single guy to pull, but once they are off it makes moving it a hell of a lot easier as its no longer as top heavy. Plus you are way less likely to damage anything sensitive that way.

 

[jmarkwolf]

Take pics and/or videos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[csp]

You're focused on the loading end of the process- what does the unload/placing look like? Might be cheaper and safer in the long run to have a pro do it.

He's already stated the unload scenario. Tall doors, lots of access and a forklift are already there.

 

[Zaxxn]

Very good point here. When dragging the mill up the stairs- once it reaches the top, it'll want to fall over and lay flat on the floor. You'll need a plan for the top of the stairs.

The boom is tall enough to basically leave the mill dangling after plugging it out of the "hole". So it basically will just hang on the hook once it clears the stairs, but otherwise definitely food for thought!

 

[Zaxxn]

A lot of good suggestions and I am inclined to go with mushcreeks, I would reduce the contact surface by placing pipe or 1x's under the piece coming up the stairs. Also I would advise to insure that it is in some sort of track so it could not go sideways only up and down. Might be as simple as a couple 2x's hanging on each side of the stairs but I would insure it can't get off the stairs.

Yes, I think reducing drag will be essential for the first foot or two up the "ramp". Once it gets over that, the force will be more and more vertically upwards and should be less of an issue I am thinking as by extending the boom/reversing the truck while winching in the angle will change until we can pluck it straight up.