The VISES of Garage Journal

[Fred Knox]

I thought you might like to see my American Scale 79 vise. It is in excellent condition, with 6" jaws, opens 9 ½” and weighs 170 lbs. It is 25 ½" long, 14" tall and 10" wide at base (16" handle). I included a baby (Wilton) in the last photo for size reference.

I do have one question for you GJ OG’s. The swivel jaw pin at the top is original, but it is stuck. The previous owner tells me he coated the vise with something to inhibit rust (BLO?) but does not remember exactly what it was. I think it may be the cause of the problem. I have tried dripping in turpentine around the swivel pin and so far, have just used hand pressure and light taps with a brass hammer (I don’t want to mar the pin if possible), but to no avail. Has anyone encountered this problem before and what should I try? Many Thanks.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Fred,

Thanks for sharing that beauty!! I had a stuck and broken off pin in my Hollands swivel jaw. I found on here that some used a "screw jack" made from a thread coupler and two bolts. It worked for me but be careful! I soaked that pin with oil and heated it to no avail. With the screw jack I kept going until that thing shot out like a bullet. It hit the open garage door 9ft above and put a dent in it. I'd be missing teeth at best if my face was over the top of it.

good luck!

 

[va.grouseman]

Mr. W, you have to treat those pins like we use to do on a dynamite blast.---We would place a 1/2 ton woven matt of 1'' cable over the blast hole.---Really cut down on the damage to local barns and houses.---Same principle with the runaway pin.---And after 50+ years of just setting in there those things seem to take on the nature of a broken bone that has knit back together, they're not 2 entities anymore but 1.---And it appears they want to be left that way.

 

[mikeswrenches]

Fred, the easiest way is to remove the dynamic jaw, remove the swivel base, get a punch or bolt, or any other piece of rod, put it through the swivel bolt hole in the bottom of static jaw tower, locate the swivel jaw pin hole and drive it out. Make sure you do this on something real solid...like your driveway. Make sure the top of the swivel jaw pin isn’t resting on any thing, then hit your punch with a big hammer. If everything is good and solid it should only take a couple hammer blows.

Make sure to support the swivel jaw when you do this. You want to make sure all the force goes into the stuck pin. I’ve done it using a socket on a hardwood block or two. This allows you to get everything reasonably level, the socket both contains the pin when it comes loose and supports the swivel jaw. Plan B is to turn it right side up, warm the area around the pin with a torch, turn it back over and hit with the hammer again.

Good luck!

 

[phy6]

New here and I have a small collection. I’ve also got a Reed 3C that I’m looking for a base for.

Beautiful !! What gray paint did you use?

 

[Fred Knox]

Thanks Mr. Wonderful and mikeswrenches. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Fred,

It took me months working on it a little at a time (no exaggeration) to free up a pin on a Parker swivel jaw I have. Like Mr. W, I tried heat and penetrating oil and light taps. Wouldn't budge. It was a tiny vise so I couldn't punch it out or screw jack it out from the inside even if I removed the nut. I finally got some movement in the entire swivel jaw itself by soaking the vise in a tub of Evaporust for a few weeks and by driving feeler gauge blades in the seam between the body of the vise and the swivel jaw on either side, which had a wedging/lifting action on the jaw, which in turn had a wedging/lifting action on the pin. But I have a CAUTION: Are those the ends of a retaining pin I see on either side of the swivel jaw? If so, that will keep the swivel jaw in place regardless of the pin. You will want to remove that before trying to pry it up. You may want to double-check with someone else who owns an American Scale 79 vise.

 

[RoninB4]

To Fred Knox:
Tapered pins/shafts/bodies have been used throughout the machine tool world for a long time both for positional accuracy and the ability to hold two components together. Even shiny new components have this interesting ability to "lock" together and can take far more than a couple of light taps to separate.

I appreciate your desire to avoid deforming the taper pin but the age of your vise likely means oxidation has likely welded the pin to the vise. You can try flipping the vise upside down and filling the hole (if possible) with penetrating oil. An old injection mold was dragged out of storage and would NOT separate despite the best efforts of all the moldmakers accustomed to this problem. It was going to be thrown out (expensive to replace) and the foreman asked for a last try. He soaked the sliding parts in Kroil (brand name) for at least two weeks, attempting a split every two days. It did separate after a couple of weeks, it just takes time with repeated efforts.

Extractors- I've used/made more than a few constant force types. For tapers they always work better if a nominal load is put on them and a shock is applied by a good thump from a hammer. Instructions on a commercial puller stated this and I've used this method ever since. Use brass or aluminum for a drift pin that's as large as you can get into the small end of the hole, either should not deform the pin if the diameter is nearly the same size. If a couple of solid hits with a 4 pound hammer won't free it up then re-oil and try again in a couple of days because it just not ready. It's important to keep the hole topped up with oil.

I realize you may already know this but others here might not. Good luck, it will happen if you can stand the wait. Nice looking vise.

 

[Shiftless]

I struggled greatly with the taper pin extraction job on a Reed 406. Soaking in penetrating oil for weeks, hammer taps, internal jacking with 2 bolts and a coupling.
Success finally came when I took the vise down to see friend and fellow GJ member JZiggy. We dropped by his favorite hardware store and picked up a 3/8 Grade 8 bolt and a few other parts to make a puller. We drilled and tapped a hole in the top of the pin and arranged a spacer around the pin made from a short length of steel pipe to make a home made puller.
The proper socket and a 24 inch breaker bar with 2 guys pulling on it and the pin finally popped out. A few light taps and the swivel jaw then freed up.

We were inspired by this photo posted by KMScott.

 

[MayerMR]

Mayer, is your vise a 5A, if so can you add your spec's for the spreadsheet. Thanks. Wish I had one.

I'm happy to get the specs to you, Kevin

Mayer. No you have a #6 there but since yours was produced earlier it is a bolt thru the bench and not a bolt on the bench.

The #49 is a part # I believe

I must admit, I was wondering if it was a 5A, as Kevin had suggested, since it didn't have the 2" jaws. Yes, it is a through-bench model, pretty darn old. I'd love to know approximately what era it is from - you have any idea Joe? When did they switch over to the newer-style bases?

 

[Shiftless]

I’m wondering the same thing. I have a few through the bench mount swivel base vises. I always thought they were nearly 100 years old.
Did most manufacturers switch to top of the bench swivel bases around the same time?

 

[va.grouseman]

I struggled greatly with the taper pin extraction job on a Reed 406. Soaking in penetrating oil for weeks, hammer taps, internal jacking with 2 bolts and a coupling.
Success finally came when I took the vise down to see friend and fellow GJ member JZiggy. We dropped by his favorite hardware store and picked up a 3/8 Grade 8 bolt and a few other parts to make a puller. We drilled and tapped a hole in the top of the pin and arranged a spacer around the pin made from a short length of steel pipe to make a home made puller.
The proper socket and a 24 inch breaker bar with 2 guys pulling on it and the pin finally popped out. A few light taps and the swivel jaw then freed up.

We were inspired by this photo posted by KMScott.

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The only problem with your solution Shift, is Mr. Knox's one part of his quote that states ("I don’t want to mar the pin if possible"), otherwise, like you suggest, just extract the pin, weld and grind the damage off of the top of it or make another one.

 

[Shiftless]

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The only problem with your solution Shift, is Mr. Knox's one part of his quote that states ("I don’t want to mar the pin if possible"), otherwise, like you suggest, just extract the pin, weld and grind the damage off of the top of it or make another one.

Of course I too wanted to preserve what almost certainly was the original pin in undamaged condition. After all other methods failed and the vise had been sitting on my bench upside down for literally months, I had to go with drilling a hole.
I sold the vise with the threaded hole still there in the pin. Until I got rid of it, I had screwed a forged lifting eye into the hole. I figured that’s a great way to extract the pin if it got stuck again and also would serve to be able to hang the pin on a wall hook when not in use to minimize the chance of getting lost.

IMHO, Something like this eye for a taper pin grab handle fits the no nonsense feeling of a 6 inch Reed.

 

[1982fxr]

I’m wondering the same thing. I have a few through the bench mount swivel base vises. I always thought they were nearly 100 years old.
Did most manufacturers switch to top of the bench swivel bases around the same time?

General consensus on here seems to be the US companies switched styles right after WWI, lifting the style from across the pond.

 

[Outlawmws]

Based on the catalogs I've seen, I thought most had switched away from a through hole in the 20's. Parkers with swivel plates are patented from 1930 for instance.

 

[Smitty]

I finally put the old school Wilton C series set together. I really like the original designs and the tear shaped bottoms on the dynamic. C0, C1, C2 and C3



Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Shiftless]

Smitty:
That’s a very impressive line up you have there.

1982 and outlaw:
Thanks for verifying what I thought to be true. All of our through the bench mount swivel vises are close to or even past their 100th birthdays.

 

[Fred Knox]

Thanks Lugs, Ronin, Shift and VA. It sounds like I have another project for the next couple weekends, at least!

 

[Smitty]

Thanks Shift, the set has a rustic feel to it and I’m going to leave it that way.

 

[tool_scrounge]

New to the Vise world! Keep looking for local ones. Don't know if this is the place to ask the question but here goes. Local guy has this Columbian for $50. Is it worth it? I'm assuming I can get new jaws for it? Thanks

Ok vise worth about $45 in my area with good jaws. I would pass with broken jaws.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks Lugs,

You're welcome. Keep us posted on progress. And please let me know if that is a retaining pin going laterally through the swivel jaw there. I'm curious now.

 

[dannyr]

1982 and outlaw:
Thanks for verifying what I thought to be true. All of our through the bench mount swivel vises are close to or even past their 100th birthdays.[/QUOTE]

And over this side of the pond we stole back the through-hole swivel for the much prized Record 74 and 75 'Auto-vices'.

 

[Shiftless]

If you need a chuckle this morning, here is a vise for sale ad.

I guess the previous user didn’t have any screws handy so just used some what... 20 penny nails?
The picture is funny enough, but add to that the asking price of $125

 

[Jayman17]

Or the fact that it is conveniently nailed to the ground. I love working at that height.

Jay

 

[Burn1]

Hi Reed experts,
Have an opportunity to purchase a Reed 1C? And not familiar with this maker.
Vice body looks to be in nice shape but the swivel base seems to be hung up. I have been able to get it to turn, but when flipped over there is a casting with hole and what looks to be some sort of cast part that pivots/rocks when I use my finger to move it. I am not in a a position to take it apart before purchasing.
Does that piece have teeth on one side which engage the outer cast ring.
Tryin to understand if the swivel base is good before buying this vise.

Anyone have a drawing or pictures of one of these reeds swivel base for a visual?
I am traveling today and on mobile phone device typing this.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Shiftless]

Yes, the swivel lock uses a piece with teeth to engage teeth on the outer ring.
Maybe it rocks because the lockdown handle is not tight. Might have some rust or ?? somewhere interfering with full tightening.
It doesn’t sound too bad. If that vise has a reasonable price tag on it, I’d buy it anyway. It looks to be in great shape. No visible signs of abuse. Reed C series vises are in my opinion the very best. That one is the later model with the split nut in front giving you adjustability for end play.

Here is a pic of the bottom of my Reed 1C

 

[Burn1]

Shiftless,
Thank you Sir.
Yes the only difference in the base on this one is the window if you will is round vs yours showing the actual teeth of that inner piece.
So it makes much more since with your picture.
Again, thank you for the quick info while I am out and about today.

 

[Burn1]

Got it apart and looks good.
The inner teeth on stud looks good as well outer ring now that it’s apart.
She needs a bath, but bringing her home.
Shiftless rocks!

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks for the kind words, Burn1.
Glad I could help out.

You bought a fantastic vise.

 

[Burn1]

Given it has 1 lock down handle, 4 base hold downs, shape of spindle nose, and split ring what might the original paint color have been? Without cleaning it up yet, could this be from the 1950's? My first Reed so would like to keep with paint color keeping with the theme.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7378835&postcount=1

Check this thread for date info.

 

[Burn1]

Great info thank you for sharing that link.

 

[Shiftless]

Mine is 12 76

I think it is still in original paint and it’s dark gray maybe with a dark greenish tinge.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

New to the Vise world! Keep looking for local ones. Don't know if this is the place to ask the question but here goes. Local guy has this Columbian for $50. Is it worth it? I'm assuming I can get new jaws for it? Thanks

Corky, Sorry no one responded. If you haven't bought the vise already I would pass. I would guess you're in an area where you have to step over vises on street corners. You can do much better with an old vintage vise for not much more money. You just need to have a little patience. That's a lightweight homeowners vise with a broken jaw to boot. If you don't know what you're looking for in terms of brands and how to tell a good vise from a not so good vise here's a good thread for you to read. It should answer most of your questions and give you tips on how to find the vise you seek. Good luck!

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447255

Edit: I missed that tool_scrounge replied. Hope the above is helpful. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

I cleaned up the Reed 104-1/2 I picked up last year at an estate sale. I'm not a vise painter. I prefer BLO and paste wax. I had asked on the vise repair thread twice with no response about whether this Reed would have had a washer between the spindle and the dynamic jaw as there was some pretty good wear on the spindle. I just put it back together as it came. Made sure there was some oil between those parts. Here's before and after.

 

[va.grouseman]

That's a with Tool--scourge and Txlonghorn.---Put that $45.00 towards a nicer USA made vise.---As Tx said, patience is the key.---There will be a vise drought then all of a sudden you're tripping over them.

 

[Outlawmws]

That's a with Tool--scourge and Txlonghorn.---Put that $45.00 towards a nicer USA made vise.---As Tx said, patience is the key.---There will be a vise drought then all of a sudden you're tripping over them.

Mostly because you keep buying them, and they are all over the floor!

That would describe a LOT of the folks on this thread!

 

[Outlawmws]

OK - VISE SIGHTING ALERT:

Current Farmer's Insurance Add on TV - the old guy is in a garage grinding (on a smart phone supposedly) and its held by:

A VINTAGE CRAFTSMAN VISE

Pretty sure it's this one (with a rust patina):

Seen watching MLB the last couple of nights...

 

[hautpot]

I finally bought my first vise. oh no what did I get myself into lmao.

 

[KIRK!]

This thread has me obsessed.