Snobbish tools mystery buster

[qqzj]

There really isn't a lot of solid evidence anywhere that those expensive tools are better than those sold in big box stores and over at Amazon. Backdrag is one of those excuses often brought up before. But this video shows the difference is super small with harbor freight winning!

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[classic70]

Having owning many of the ratchets tested, my f80 snap on is broke in with lube has less back drag than my Pittsburgh pro 3/8 that came in first in his test. Just my opinion. Lubed 84t gearwrench is also better than Pittsburgh pro. Those 72t Taiwan ratchets with lube are a great value no doubt.


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[Ralf11]

We could never get the Harbor Freight trucks to come by at the shop where I worked...

 

[Skin]

If you step on a truck and play with 5 different ratchets of the exact same type some will feel better than others. The tolerances arent tight enough for exact repeatability.

If you really care enough a couple minutes fast break in with a drill works pretty well too.

 

[1982fxr]

There really isn't a lot of solid evidence anywhere that those expensive tools are better than those sold in big box stores and over at Amazon. Backdrag is one of those excuses often brought up before. But this video shows the difference is super small with harbor freight winning!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

This is most excellent news!

The most amazing thing about hf, to me, is how they make the best tools that constantly win! in both price and performance yet have built and maintain! a reputation as a store that sells mostly imported junk.

That's a really amazing! accomplishment.

 

[Ralf11]

I do like the video. Backdrag is only one factor, but good to see it measured.

The other thing is whether a difference of, say, 8 vs. 4 makes a difference in rotating the fastener when you want it to stay still on the backstroke.

Somebody put together a spreadsheet of backdrag, failure strength, etc. - that's what you need.

 

[mc4life27]

never seen a harbor freight tool truck

 

[TheLawnRanger]

Coming up next on Man TV, it's Biff Toolson as Snob Tool Mystery Buster.

 

[ChefRex]

I'm a pro mechanic, I buy pro tools from the pro truck that backs their product, American made I might add.
I don't need any more tools for the most part but I do enjoy my tools and I'll but a tool that I think is cool or will make the job go a little faster/smoother.
I'm in a new shop after 25+ year in my last, suddenly the young guys are coming on the truck with me and spending $$ after their HF tools keep failing.
YMMV.

 

[JBH]

If you step on a truck and play with 5 different ratchets of the exact same type some will feel better than others. The tolerances arent tight enough for exact repeatability.

That shouldn’t be the case. That’s crappy production standards, unacceptable at a quarter the white van price.

As for the video, did he test anything good? I don’t see any Koken, Stahlwille, Gedore, etc. Even Proto? In the screen shot I just see HF and white van stuff.

 

[Ralf11]

Maybe post a picture of you using it on your facebook page, along with what you had for dinner.

I kinda like the idea of ratcheting up my dinner - say, BBQ

 

[Bsmb62519]

There really isn't a lot of solid evidence anywhere that those expensive tools are better than those sold in big box stores and over at Amazon. Backdrag is one of those excuses often brought up before. But this video shows the difference is super small with harbor freight winning!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

How else are tool snobs supposed to feel superior if they dont brag about only having certain color snapons? Personally Im more impressed by the quality of someones work than I am the tools they did it with. Generally the better the mechanic the less concerned they are with the "snapon" image. Ive seen lots of bragadocious "Im a car guys" with an amazing array of full snap on cabinets, that never turned a wrench on their "classic". Theres a lot of wannabes with cash or credit that feel the need to project a bigger "tool" I mean image.

 

[Ralf11]

Which brand of ratchets most closely resembles a Jeep Wrangler with over 100K miles?

 

[ChefRex]

Which brand of ratchets most closely resembles a Jeep Wrangler with over 100K miles?

I have resisted that thread, now I may look, damn you to hell!

 

[pi_guy]

I smell bait.

Bunker but you never see birds over bunker just other schools of bait.
Bunker would be the Harbor Freight of the bait world....

 

[joshmodelskidoo]

I will say i do enjoy and buy hf tools. They do have there gems and they are pretty cheap on prices but on some things i can go to menards and get the same thing cheaper. I have also had good and junk from hf. A few months ago I upgraded my Pittsburgh pro flex heads to Carlyle because after a few months the heads got all floppy and those Carlyle are locking flex heads and cost probably tripple what the fr ratchets cost. I used a brand new off brand drill similar to what hf carries and smoked it on its first use. I was also looking for a more powerful cordless impact wrench and chose dewalt because at the time it was $20 more than the earthquake for similar specs but a ton better warranty and tool selection. I don’t understand why the have there own brands and therrs like 100 different brands. Menards has toolshop and masterforce as there 2 house brands. Toolshop as the cheap stuff and masterforce as the good decent stuff

 

[Rabid Badger]

There are some cranky people in here.

Yes, that 72-tooth mechanism in the HF ratchets has absurdly low backdrag. It's also not as strong as other designs due to the relatively low number of small teeth engaged by the pawl. I have a couple of the butter knife style Tektons with the exact same mechanism that I keep for situations when I need the lowest possible backdrag, but they aren't the first ratchets I reach for.

 

[3 at 8]

It goes round and round and round still after all these years. lol

 

[WittHay]

Isnt that video about measuring which ratchets have the weakest springs.

What I gather is that the US made brands have stronger springs so the ratchet lasts longer and has less chance of slipping. A lot of import brands feel great when new but may fail quicker because of the weaker springs

Or this thread could be about that the OP doesnt like people who buy tools from local small businessman and prefer that everybody buys tools from one of 2 US billionaires.

 

[3baygarage]

Snap On = 100 years of quality and innovation.

Harbor Freight= A smell that you won’t forget for 100 years.


Snap On = Provided tools that were used by the military throughout wars, and then some.

Harbor Freight = Provides clipper coupons that people fight over, for items that wouldn’t survive a hike.


Snap On = Introduced the interchangeable socket set.

Harbor Freight = Gave us the rainbow socket set.

 

[Fedwrench]

That's 12 minutes of my life that I won't get back I did learn about inch ounces though

I still say that back drag in itself, is a problem for people that spend more time polishing their tools than using them. If you're worried about back drag, get a cordless ratchet.

You have to actually use the ratchet routinely for it to break in and smooth out.

As for tool snobs, you're ******* up a rope if you think you will ever change anyone's perception on tools here. The people that swear by harbor Freight or cheap tools will never see the reward or value in a tool truck brand. Conversely, the loyal tool truck brand users will always feel that, anything less is worthless.
Sandwiched in between those groups are the flag wavers. Half of those refuse to buy any tool not made in the USA despite how good it is. The second group of flag wavers are less passionate but, favor the European brands but, have been conflicted lately as many European brands are sourcing from Taiwan now

The bottom line as I've said before, is get whatever tools you like and can afford but, don't tell me my choice is wrong simply because you don't like the tools I use.What works for you might not work for me and vice versa.

 

[egdede]

We could never get the Harbor Freight trucks to come by at the shop where I worked...

LOL!!! Thats fukn classic. You know if harbor freight ran a truck...they would put snapon out of business. God i love that..harbor freight truck

They'd need more trucks than Amazon to keep the warranty replacements flowing.

Sometimes I prefer more back drag, and sometimes less.
I use my old-school Proto pear-heads when I want less.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Neat. I guess this guy ran out of stuff to do with his foot-pound-o-meter and got a new toy to play with for measuring things he does not understand.... didja see his goofy extension video?

The guy's work bench is 50% fixtures used to break ratchets.... and 50% broken ratchets.

Plus, a guy called Client Graphics can't produce a graph? It's literally in the name!

-Ryan

 

[Ralf11]

maybe he has more than one workbench?

do you have any specific criticisms of his test? I can think of one - sample size.

I don't care if he doesn't work for the metrology dept. at hp or intel.

Backdrag is one factor that matters sometimes. He measured it. That's a public service.

I still wonder if going from say 8 to 4 would make much of a difference in practice....

and BTW, almost all my ratchets are Snappy - one of my covid projects is to re-lube all of them, maybe even the Dual-80s

as to flag waving in the other post above: you forgot the disciples of the high-end Japanese ratchets - maybe I'll join if Palmac ever gets my shipment out the door...

 

[ajchien]

Now I wonder how many inch-ounces of torque my fingers can produce when spinning off a bolt.

About the only time I’ve complained about backdrag are the times that the backdrag stops spinning the bolt and you get this back and forth motion of going nowhere ... but the bolt is still too freaking tight for my fingers to spin off. The solution for me was a thumb wheel adapter.

I think it used to be a more common problem for me 10 years ago, but in today’s age of cordless ratchets, I don’t recall whining about backdrag in a long time.

 

[Skin]

I still say that back drag in itself, is a problem for people that spend more time polishing their tools than using them. If you're worried about back drag, get a cordless ratchet.

Back drag and the amount of play in the gearing before the next tooth clicks are more tangible than arguing over what 80 or 100 teeth gets you over a 60 tooth count ratchet.

There can be instances where both work against you so you lose some swing arc in confined spaces. Its one of the reasons I like quick release since you can hold pressure directly on the anvil from the button and get maximum swing arc. Pretty sure Koken even publishes a spec as part of their marketing which you really dont see from other manufacturers.

edit-Koken does indeed in their Zeal marketing. They rate their ratchets for 1.9 newton centimeters of resistance which is about 2.7 ounce inches.

 

[Ralf11]

somebody send that guy one of your Koken ratchets - see if it meets spec

 

[measuredtwice]

as to flag waving in the other post above: you forgot the disciples of the high-end Japanese ratchets - maybe I'll join if Palmac ever gets my shipment out the door...

He also left out the Taiwan/China “flag wavers” and the haters... I guess the haters are "flag burners".

“Taiwan flag wavers” often fail to realize they are flag wavers. Typically, they claim they don’t care about COO but Taiwan tools are the only thing they post and they are as protective of them as a momma bear with cubs.

“American flag burners” don’t enjoy their imports without putting down domestic tools and the people who buy them. Since they feed off the anger they incite, they are trolls. Opposition to flag burning is often called “flag waving”.

That's 12 minutes of my life that I won't get back I did learn about inch ounces though

I still say that back drag in itself, is a problem for people that spend more time polishing their tools than using them. If you're worried about back drag, get a cordless ratchet.

You have to actually use the ratchet routinely for it to break in and smooth out.

As for tool snobs, you're ******* up a rope if you think you will ever change anyone's perception on tools here. The people that swear by harbor Freight or cheap tools will never see the reward or value in a tool truck brand. Conversely, the loyal tool truck brand users will always feel that, anything less is worthless.
Sandwiched in between those groups are the flag wavers. Half of those refuse to buy any tool not made in the USA despite how good it is. The second group of flag wavers are less passionate but, favor the European brands but, have been conflicted lately as many European brands are sourcing from Taiwan now

The bottom line as I've said before, is get whatever tools you like and can afford but, don't tell me my choice is wrong simply because you don't like the tools I use.What works for you might not work for me and vice versa.

You stoked the fire a bit. Haha. I don't think that was your intention but I do think that some post insults like "snob" to get a bigger response to their posts. I think a lot of "flag burning" is also to get a bigger response. People respond more to the insults than to a photo of a $30 ratchet or a video about back drag. If the OP had just posted a title like "video compares ratchet back drag" instead of insulting people by calling them "snobs", then this topic would have generated less replies. The insults are trolling.

This forum is about tools, not people’s opinions about each other.

 

[Cgw1984]

I'm a pro mechanic, I buy pro tools from the pro truck that backs their product, American made I might add.
I don't need any more tools for the most part but I do enjoy my tools and I'll but a tool that I think is cool or will make the job go a little faster/smoother.
I'm in a new shop after 25+ year in my last, suddenly the young guys are coming on the truck with me and spending $$ after their HF tools keep failing.
YMMV.

My milage most def. Varied from that opinion. Hf mainline ratchets and sockets have been most def. Reliable for me and many others. This is clearly a troll thread, but the garbage "buy us no matter if its actually better or not" is a garbage policy as well. Ive got many tools (including a decent amount of snap on stuff) and my work supplies us snap on tools. Its good stuff. But i find myself reaching for whichever ratchet in the correct size thats nearest me. Ive never been disappointed to grab an hf ratchet over one of my s-o.

 

[Cgw1984]

They'd need more trucks than Amazon to keep the warranty replacements flowing.

Sometimes I prefer more back drag, and sometimes less.
I use my old-school Proto pear-heads when I want less.

Care to back that claim up with any actual data or we just doin the whole "hf is junkz cuz my buddys dogs sisters owners grandpa said so"? You know.. unbiased reviews, long term usage, scientific metallurgy tests, etc? No? Bueller...bueller?

Neat. I guess this guy ran out of stuff to do with his foot-pound-o-meter and got a new toy to play with for measuring things he does not understand.... didja see his goofy extension video?

The guy's work bench is 50% fixtures used to break ratchets.... and 50% broken ratchets.

Plus, a guy called Client Graphics can't produce a graph? It's literally in the name!

-Ryan

I watch these for background noise, but dont put much stock into any of the youtube talking heads.

This forum is about tools, not people’s opinions about each other.

Thats what it should be about. But it seems more like a back and forth between "professional mechanics" who seem to get off talking about how much debt theyre into while they "support americans" by buying exceedingly marked up tools from the local sales slimeball, and convincing each other its totally cool to have to buy more **** from said slimeball in hopes of getting said slimeball to actually provide the warranty s-o is so proud of.

The other side is the "home gamer" who takes great joy in telling the first group that they got "just as gud" for $7.99 with a SUPERCOUPON. They try so hard to convince themselves and others that hf is the "best value" in tools, regardless of the fact the tools are often dubious in capability. They also seem to rake great joy in bragging about how they only had to stop in the middle of the project 3 times while running to exchange oddly broken tools (note: seems hf is nownrequiring receipt for many returns)

Both sides ****. Find the best tool for the job. The name stamped on it is secondary, and bolts dont know the difference between chinese and us steel. Also, fun fact: hf employs more us citizens un the us than snap on does

I think some people just need to argue. Id rather be kind.

 

[lardy1]

For the life of me, I can never understand why anyone would give a flying **** what brand of tools anyone else uses. Good grief.

 

[VolvoRyan]

For the life of me, I can never understand why anyone would give a flying **** what brand of tools anyone else uses. Good grief.

For some reason there's a HF vs tool truck brand thing that rages all over the internet. Clearly, here too. I don't understand it.

-Ryan

 

[CR888]

There really isn't a lot of solid evidence anywhere that those expensive tools are better than those sold in big box stores and over at Amazon. Backdrag is one of those excuses often brought up before. But this video shows the difference is super small with harbor freight winning!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

I'm just glad we have you here to inform us on what exactly quality tools are. Thank you for your wealth of knowledge & experience.

 

[Ralf11]

Brand names are important when they stand for something.

Witness the zeal that corps. show to buy a brand and keep it. Or you can trade on the good reputation your brand has, until it is all gone. Consider Cadillac, the std. of the world from the 1930s to its near demise in the 19070s-80s.

The problem is to be sure of what the brand stands for, and if it still does. Snappy gets you a tool that is well engineered and reliable in hard day to day use, and a super warranty. Everybody chases Snap On ratchet technology, which is a good thing for the user.

If HF can do as well for less $$ then good for them.

As for "American" that's fine but you may be buying a tool made in the USA from foreign steel.

Then there is the break down on countries of origin. US, but do we include our NATO allies? Germany - France usually coordinates with NATO, so now we have 3 or 4 brands. Japan is an ally so add a couple there. Then there is Taiwan - want to send a message to the Chinese Party? Buy Taiwan.

I have friends and colleagues in all those countries so am happy to support them and their country, not just ours.

 

[nadogail]

For the life of me, I can never understand why anyone would give a flying **** what brand of tools anyone else uses. Good grief.

If the Harbor Freight Truck ever comes to my workshop, I will sign up for the Harbor Freight Credit Card.

 

[WittHay]

Dont know why people use words like snobbish or slime ball. When i buy a ratchet from Jim the Mac or Snap-on guy, I am supporting US manufacturing and a local businessman who makes above minimum wage who in turn supports more local businesses. If i have a problem with a ratchet at any time he fixes it.

I cant buy tools from Eric the owner of HF, because the borders are closed. Even if they were open, supporting minimum wage workers and Communist Chinese manufacturing at a US discount store is not my thing

Buying a US made SK ratchet from Jeff the owner of Amazon is more complicated. He has a very poor warranty. After a certain period , I have to learn how to be a tool shipper and get in contact with a manufacturer in another country and somehow get that ratchet fixed. Unlike Jim the tool truck guy , Jeff takes no responsibility for the products he sells after a certain period.

Also Jeff does not deliver directly to the public. He employs people who work for subcontractors who work for a subsidiary of one of his company's. These drivers along with the midnight warehouse workers make minimum wage or a little above and are basically working poor. They are not part of the middle class which is a must for a decent economy

These are my reason why I go to Canadian Tire for a import ratchet and to a tool truck for a US made ratchet. We also have tool stores that sell Proto and Gray stuff and warranty is no problem. So no need for Amazon or HF

 

[Tallpilot]

Dont know why people use words like snobbish or slime ball. When i buy a ratchet from Jim the Mac or Snap-on guy, I am supporting US manufacturing and a local businessman who makes above minimum wage who in turn supports more local businesses. If i have a problem with a ratchet at any time he fixes it.

I cant buy tools from Eric the owner of HF, because the borders are closed. Even if they were open, supporting minimum wage workers and Communist Chinese manufacturing at a US discount store is not my thing

Buying a US made SK ratchet from Jeff the owner of Amazon is more complicated. He has a very poor warranty. After a certain period , I have to learn how to be a tool shipper and get in contact with a manufacturer in another country and somehow get that ratchet fixed. Unlike Jim the tool truck guy , Jeff takes no responsibility for the products he sells after a certain period.

Also Jeff does not deliver directly to the public. He employs people who work for subcontractors who work for a subsidiary of one of his company's. These drivers along with the midnight warehouse workers make minimum wage or a little above and are basically working poor. They are not part of the middle class which is a must for a decent economy

These are my reason why I go to Canadian Tire for a import ratchet and to a tool truck for a US made ratchet. We also have tool stores that sell Proto and Gray stuff and warranty is no problem. So no need for Amazon or HF

Very rational post. The name calling is ridiculous. Plus it is silly to worry about what another guy does with his money.

The ramifications of hollowing out the middle class are going to be felt for a long time and now exacerbated by the current calamity.

 

[logical]

We could never get the Harbor Freight trucks to come by at the shop where I worked...

And if it suddenly showed up?

Sent from my garage.

 

[ChefRex]

And if it suddenly showed up?

Sent from my garage.

I would laugh at him/her/it.

 

[Ralf11]

And if it suddenly showed up?

Sent from my garage.

if a Harbor Freight tool truck drove by, I'd think I was in an alternate reality

they seem to be trying to grow their brand and add quality, so maybe they'll try to move in on the truck market

but it's hard to get branded as low quality and then move up