Show Your Vintage Knife

[gpw_42]

After a discussion with Lugz on the 2020 Garage Sale Thread, here's a place to show off your vintage knife. Type of knife is not significant (fixed blade, folding blade, civilian/military, etc.), just that it's vintage.

Some starters:

World War 1 Signal Corps Pocket Knives and a modified World War 2 era TL-29 (attempt to make a clip point from the issue drop point). The TL-29 was also a Signal Corps knife, which other branches copied.


World War 2 Army issue (USA) and post-war civilian utility knives. I bought the civilian knife in 2017 with shrunken celluloid scales and installed jigged bone replacements.

 

[gpw_42]

Some fixed blade knives. A WESTERN/BOULDER, COLO./PAT No. 1957479 with a copper wire wrapped handle and a Soffe /SOLINGEN/GERMANY, surely from the 50s, before the Berlin Wall went up.

The patent was approved in 1934 and shows details of the tang construction. Note that it is not a full tang knife.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/fd/68/f5/2690b05985d6e1/US1967479.pdf

 

[Shiftless]

Re: Show Your Vintage Knife

This one might be considered vintage by some people. Buck 112 folding hunter. It was manufactured in the 1970’s
The original blade had a broken tip when I found it mixed in with a bunch of dirty tools in a rollaway cabinet I bought from a Craigslist guy.
I sent it in to Buck and they cleaned it up and put in a new blade at no charge. All I paid was one way shipping.
It is now my EDC.

 

[gpw_42]

Shiftless, that's a great experience with Buck!

I have one of those knives which is also 70s vintage, which I bought off ePay years ago. The newer ones (starting in the 80s, IIRC) have 4 brass pins, where yours has 3.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is my US Army marked Kabar that resides in my GMTK.
-Don

 

[exmaxima1]

I got these knives from my parents years ago. The Marbles sheath knife is from the late '20s/early 30's. I replaced the original stacked leather handle with phenolic LE. The long folder is a Shrade "sausage" knife that my mother got when she worked at a meat packing company, circa late '40s.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for starting this, Steve. Hard to believe we haven't had one before. I've always enjoyed the axe thread, and I already have a good feeling about this one!

A WESTERN/BOULDER, COLO./PAT No. 1957479 with a copper wire wrapped handle...

Love the handle. Is that factory!? Or a PO save job?

I got these knives from my parents years ago. The Marbles sheath knife is from the late '20s/early 30's. I replaced the original stacked leather handle with phenolic LE. The long folder is a Schrade "sausage" knife that my mother got when she worked at a meat packing company, circa late '40s.

Two beauts. What is the handle of the "sausage" knife made out of?

 

[Shiftless]

What is the handle of the "sausage" knife made out of?

My guess just from looking at the pic is celluloid.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Some of you have seen this one before.

It's a testament to how much I like it - for its shape, edge, and especially for its weight - that it's the handiest for me to start off with. The handle is made of lead, which is impervious to oxidation, for one thing, and also makes for a steady, solid stroke.

It was the subject of some debate when I posted it previously.

You’ll notice that the marking on the blade reads "MARVEL", "HIGH-SPEED-EDGE-PATENTED", and "ARMSTRONG-BLUM MFG. CO".

Armstrong-Blum made all kinds of machinery, mainly cutting (grinders, cutters, shears, etc), since at least 1891, and they were supplying power hacksaws to the Army during WWII.

The prevailing theory, promulgated by RTM and Farmer J., is that someone made this by hand out of an old power hacksaw blade. It is 1/16" inch thick at the spine and 1" wide at the "ricasso“, which matches a size I found in a table of blades in a 1948 Armstrong-Blum catalog on vintagemachinery.org listing the dimensions and the TPI for various blades. That same catalog also included this illustration, which I marked-up with the blue dotted lines, to show how it does lend much credence to the homemade argument.

Someone else insisted that Armstrong-Blum also made HSS fixed blade knives, but I have not been able to confirm that in catalogs or ads.

Either way, it’s a keeper.

My knife stowage habits exceed my organizational skills and memory, so I will get to other knives in my very modest collection in due time.

 

[3baygarage]

I don’t collect knives per say, but have created a small collection over the years from buying them cheap when I see them at sales or auctions. Mostly pocket knives, and some military or hunting.


This was a special find. $2 at an estate sale years back.

USN KA-BAR MK2

The story is, I went to an advertised estate sale in the next neighborhood over. There was squat for tools in the basement, and I was just about to leave empty handed. Headed upstairs to the second floor, then back down to the first. There was nothing interesting in the house at all, but it was a very nicely taken care of home, with lots of work on the rooms inside.

This particular sale was being put on by the realtor of the house, and his wife, I think.

I ran into this old timer named Frank who was there shopping, nice old guy, who used to work for an actual estate sale company selling the tools.

The only customers were Frank, myself, and a woman.

I believe the woman asked if anything was for sale in the garage. Frank and I were all over that idea, as the realtor happily led the three of us out back to the garage. He opened the door for us, and it didn’t take long before I was disappointed. Nothing in tools. Maybe some garden stuff, an old hacksaw.

Well, I looked all around the bench area anyway, and eventually moved this old rectangular fruit bushel. There was the knife underneath!

I think Frank about had a heart attack, and the lady shopper was staring hard as the realtor sold it to me for $2 after a brief negotiation. I remember saying something like “The blade isn’t very sharp”. Not sure if I even noticed the cracked scabbard at that point. Lucky for me it wasn’t an estate sale company (because I’ve found other hidden treasures and it rarely turns out well). The realtor only cared about that main thing, the house. Otherwise I wouldn’t have been leaving with that knife, not at that price anyway.

All seriousness though, I didn’t even know what I’d found, but knew it had to be something darn good.

 

[Shiftless]

3Bay:

“not very sharp...” That might very well be the original factory edge! All the more valuable.

You “negotiated” down to two dollars? I would have been grinning all the way back to my car at ten times that price.

You ****!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Classic "steal," 3bay. I just don't understand people like that realtor, or vendors and sellers at flea markets, etc, sometimes, and I refuse to have sympathy for them. Even if you don't know anything about knives, let alone fighting knives, let alone famous WWII fighting knives, who in their right mind with any smidge of worldly experience would come up with a value of $2 for a knife of that size and substance? Sheesh.

 

[Packard V8]

Made by a blacksmith in Spokane, WA about 125 years ago.

jack vines

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Those are some serious choppers with some serious character, Jack.

 

[lolaetype]

When I was a teenager I used to buy Civil War items (they were cheap then) mainly from a dealer in Scottsdale, Arizona. Here is a battlefield found folding knife. I was surprised to find folding style pocket knives were around then and in fact are a very old concept.

It doesn't look like much, but what can you expect from something that laid outside for close to 100 years.

For more recent stuff I have a 5-1/2" Buck sheath knife I got in 1963 and a USN Pilot's survival knife my buddies in the squadron parafloft gave me. Looks like the one pictured.

 

[Catfishdan]

Here’s a few I have that were given to me by family. My dad gave me the Kabar folder when I was around six. I carried it for years before I retired it. The little gold dress knife belonged to my grandfather who died before I was born. I carry it on the rare occasions I wear dress clothes.

 

[Catfishdan]

And a pair of fixed blades. The first belonged to my grandpa on my dads side. It was his fishing knife. It’s a Marbles woodcraft I believe. The second is a Schrade Sharpfinger my Dads buddy gave me when I was a kid. I carried it on lots of Cub Scout camp outs. Dads buddy was kind of a biker type, and later I read in a Sonny Barger book that this model was a favorite of Hell’s Angels for stabbing. Interesting...

 

[exmaxima1]

My guess just from looking at the pic is celluloid.

I looked at it very closely and that would be my guess as well.

 

[d42jeep]

I started looking for knives for my GMTK. The first ones I found were TL-29 knives which were actually Signal Corps designations. I eventually found some US Army marked knives, which were quite rare. I ended up putting the TL-29 knives in Signal Corps pouches.
-Don

 

[gpw_42]

Thanks all, for the numerous contributions to this (new) thread. I like seeing the variety of different vintage knives we have in our stashes. Lugz, thanks for the encouragement to start this thread.

Don posting his US ARMY marked knives shows the depth of his collection (as if he needs an introduction). IIRC, last year there were only about 14 of those knives known among GMTK collectors worldwide. Undoubtedly, there were 10s of thousands made for Uncle Sam during WW2, but finding them today is difficult, at best.

Thanks for starting this, Steve. Hard to believe we haven't had one before. I've always enjoyed the axe thread, and I already have a good feeling about this one!

Love the handle. Is that factory!? Or a PO save job?

Pretty sure it's a "save job." Found it in a local thrift shop, and that wrapped copper sorta spoke to me - I was thinking about you when I grabbed it. Seems the copper wire has some kind of (decomposing) covering on it. I need to look up the knife and find out what the grip originally looked like.

 

[Provincial]

That covered wire on the handle may be Magnet Wire, which has a dark reddish enamel color. It is for making electromagnets, like armatures and field coils. The coating is pretty flexible to allow for bending it in curves. I can see why it was chosen for making a wrapping, since it would not decay as fast as uncoated copper.

Probably wrapped by someone in an electric motor repair shop!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Found it in a local thrift shop, and that wrapped copper sorta spoke to me - I was thinking about you when I grabbed it.

I can see why - on both points! It's an awesome knife.

Probably wrapped by someone in an electric motor repair shop!

Yup. Picturing some old geezer sitting on a stool next to a reticulating lamp, a magnifier, and a bench covered in magnetoes and dynos, with all kinds of guys (like me!) in a 60 mile radius patiently waiting for them to be restored at $300 a clip!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I eventually found some US Army marked knives, which were quite rare.

Indeed!

IIRC, last year there were only about 14 of those knives known among GMTK collectors worldwide.

Interesting. I didn't know anyone attempted to put a number on it.

Undoubtedly, there were 10s of thousands made for Uncle Sam during WW2, but finding them today is difficult, at best.

Statistically, ~157,000 GMTK's got sent to the ETO by late 1944, and all of them that got shipped after September 1942 (when the Ordnance Dept took over and re-defined the Motor Vehicle Mechanics Tool-Set) included a 41-K-370. I've never seen any figures for the Pacific, but it was a much smaller number. So, apparently ~156,986 are still out there somewhere.

Here are the wartime Army electrician’s knives I still have hanging around.

The knife at the bottom is a TL-29 made by Camillus for the Signal Corps.

The next knife up is a 41-K-370 made by PAL Blade Company in Holyoke, Massachusetts for the QMC and the Ordnance Dept. It's the only one of the four without brass liners.

The second knife from the top is also a PAL Blade 41-K-370 with a very faint “U.S. ARMY” marking (all that remains is parts of the “S.”, parts of the “R.”, and the entire “Y”), rubbed out with use and age.

PAL and Union Cutlery (Ka-Bar is the brand) were making electrician's knives for the QMC and Ordnance Dept for 41-K-370 supply, as opposed to the Signal Corps for Signal Corps supply, hence the "U.S. ARMY“ marking rather than the “TL-29” marking on handles and/or tangs, as Don alluded to.

Sadly, and oddly, you won’t find this information in any knife book (Silvey, Price, Trzaska, etc) or any knife site, except for a few forums where I have queried the experts and shared my research. In every sense, from their construction to their use, these knives should be thought of as 41-K-370 knives, not TL-29’s, and I got Frank Trzaska to agree with me, but I’m afraid I agree with him that despite the historical facts the “TL-29” name will forever be inextricably associated with any and all two-blade military electrician’s knives, Signal Corps or other. And it has to be said, the Federal Standard Stock Catalog did copy the Signal Corps spec, although they are slightly shorter.

Exacerbating the issue is Camillus. Records show that Camillus did sell some 'TL-29'-marked electrician's knives right off of their production line to the “Army” (probably Ordnance Dept), “Engineers” (undoubtedly the Corps of Engineers), and “QMC” (self-explanatory) as 41-K-370 spec knives, before the contracts with PAL and Union were let. They were never intended for the Signal Corps and their "TL-29" marking is strictly an interesting artifact of their production process and customer (ORD, Engineers, QMC) efficiency.

You can read my study, with documents and back-up, here.

The knife at the top is a mystery to me. It’s a Robeson. No bail. I don’t believe it’s a legit 41-K-370/GMTK knife. I believe it's a one-off.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Some closer-ups of the two PAL's and the Robeson...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

These four-blade stainless steel beauties, called "MIL-K" or "G.P." knives, usually, are my favorite pocket knives.

Grown men argue about what knife is the best pocket knife (and have done so right here on GJ on the General Discussion board, linked here - a good knife thread in its own right) and, unscientifically, the Swiss Army knife always seems to get the lion's share of the nostalgic vote. I can see why. It's been a popular gift choice for a boy or young man for a long time.

But I'm not sure why the MIL-K's aren't more popular with guys my age. They were ubiquitous throughout the Vietnam era. A 1963 Camillus was my first knife. And I still have it. It was a gift from my great aunt, who was a W.A.C. in WWII, and a lifer, retiring as a Master Sergeant in 1973. I've found several others since then, but none as old as the one my aunt gave me.

Recently, I was downright shocked to learn from Steve (gpw_42), our thread host, that they were first made in 1945 by two different makers, Kingston and Stevenson. Marked on the bail, as the image in Pic 6, excerpted from Cole III that Steve kindly sent me, shows. And I've been hoping to run into one ever since. He has done a detailed research deep dive on them, which I hope he shares here eventually.

 

[gpw_42]

These four-blade stainless steel beauties, called "MIL-K" or "G.P." knives, usually, are my favorite pocket knives.

Grown men argue about what knife is the best pocket knife (and have done so right here on GJ on the General Discussion board, linked here - a good knife thread in its own right)...

Recently, I was downright shocked to learn from Steve (gpw_42), our thread host, that they were first made in 1945 by two different makers, Kingston and Stevenson...He has done a detailed research deep dive on them, which I hope he shares here eventually.

Lugz, thanks for the memory jog on the deep dive. I pulled what I have, and need to repackage it to make it coherent and pull in the details from several of the sources. Plus, I left some hanging questions for which I need to find answers before posting anything. Or maybe just leave them as a list of questions, if it's difficult to find answers. There's a surprising amount of info on these knives available on the internet, but the challenges are:
1. pulling it all together.
2. separating fact from legend from fiction.
Which I guess you're WELL aware of, given your deep dives on other topics, posted in other places.

To reinforce your point about arguing over pocket knives, my favorite is the 41-K-370 or TL-29 type. I've used a WW2 vintage Camillus as my "daily driver" for the last 18 months, because someone tried to make it a clip point, and I can't do anything to hurt it. I like the type because the steel blade is much easier than the MIL-K to quickly sharpen well. The screwdriver is longer than on the MIL-Ks, and locks open, plus I seldom find myself in need of the other tools on a MIL-K. Further, I find a surprisingly large percentage of the MIL-Ks I run across to have broken springs, particularly for the main blade, so it just flops open, and I'd hate to ruin a vintage knife using it as a daily carry.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...because someone tried to make it a clip point,

That's bizarre. For quicker stabbing of Vienna sausages?

...plus I seldom find myself in need of the other tools on a MIL-K.

Are you trying to say I drink too much?!

 

[ttpete]

Classic "steal," 3bay. I just don't understand people like that realtor, or vendors and sellers at flea markets, etc, sometimes, and I refuse to have sympathy for them. Even if you don't know anything about knives, let alone fighting knives, let alone famous WWII fighting knives, who in their right mind with any smidge of worldly experience would come up with a value of $2 for a knife of that size and substance? Sheesh.

I have one of those MK 2s that's brand new. It's made by Camillus. I also have a smaller new MK 1 with a gray plastic scabbard. Made by PAL.

 

[don long]

Here is my knife display in the party garage

2020-04-11 16.26.42 by don long, on Flickr

.

 

[Shiftless]

Looking good Don
Some serious stickers you have there.

Like everything else there, you’ve done them up first class.

I love your collection of steam whistles too. Thanks for sharing.

 

[don long]

Thanks Shiftless
Every one that stops by the party garage likes the knife display and want all the details of where the knives and arrow heads came from.

I like old steam whistles too.

 

[isb cornbinder]

As soon as I find my very old Scout knife, I will edit it in here.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Really nice. I'm always on the lookout for barristers or store cases like that. Classes up any display. Perfect for antique tools or knives.

What's the massive clip point, 4 knives from the right, Don? Biggest knife in the case.

 

[Shiftless]

Looks a little like this one.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It looks like a Bowie pattern to me, with an offset pommel.

 

[gpw_42]

That's bizarre. For quicker stabbing of Vienna sausages?

Are you trying to say I drink too much?!

The homemade clip point is visible in pic 3, post 1. Don’t know why someone modified it like that, but it made the knife cheap in an antique store. Blade is soft and sharpens without much effort, so that’s a plus.

A beer a day keeps the doc away?

 

[Levaughn]

Colonial WW2 Prov R.I. Navy Pilot Survival Knife

Barlow Folding Knife

Kutmaster Folding Knife Utica N.Y.

RH-24 PAL Knife

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Colonial WW2 Prov R.I. Navy Pilot Survival Knife

Nice! In case you don't know it, those are not easy to find - with or without the second saw blade. I had my hands on one a few years ago at a flea market but the guy did his homework and wanted more than I was willing to pay for it.

RH-24 PAL Knife

I've got a big brother.

 

[Levaughn]

Wow thanks for the information on the Colonial. I didn't know that.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Very desirable and highly treasured, and often missing the saw blade or it's broken. They were hinged on the other end. I'm sure you've noticed that the rest of the knife is virtually unbreakable. It is massive and extremely sturdy.