Let me just put this out there
- Thread starter elidas
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Henricogolfer
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wrenchguy
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Well there you go parker guys!!!
DD T/A
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Interesting show piece, but without provenance $25k is ludicrous for a wooden display vise
paulsomlo
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I'd go $25, and even that's too much for a piece of firewood. Go back on the last day - if it's still there, they'll take $20 for it.
crguy
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Lowballers are so funny..............
woody 73
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It really belongs in a tool museum, but the odds of that happening are very slim indeed.
txlonghorn1989
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I just posted this vise model the the vises thread. I'm really curious to know what different GJ'ers would be willing to pay for it.
DD T/A
Well-known member
You can't possibly think that someone would be stupid enough to pay anything more than $3-500 for that?
At least those bogus overpriced glass gas pumps and gas station signs did an actual real job for 20-30 years before they were left forgotten, then some rich fool payed to put them in a fake garage...
But this? It's trash,(unless you're a kid who grew up around that factory and remember playing with it when you were 11 and now you've made a fortune, are retired, and need something to waste your money on before your greedy @ss children fight over your money for years in court)
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va.grouseman
Well-known member
The Pickers would probably go $250.00 if it was in a pile of junk and the provenance was established.
3baygarage
Well-known member
Pretty darn cool, but at new car price, good luck to them.
I bet lots of members are happy to see it posted.
I bet lots of members are happy to see it posted.
pelletman
Well-known member
I don't think $500 to 1000 would be unreasonable
SweetD
Well-known member
If it is a salesman's sample or some other OEM model from the factory it is a collectible for sure and could command a couple grand I would think. But $25k that guy is sniffing glue.
3baygarage
Well-known member
Same here. Or maybe even several grand, sitting in a shop or on Ebay. That is if it has ties to the factory. It’s hard to put a price on such a thing.
I think Mike and Frank would go a bit higher. From what I've seen maybe a $1000. Remember their mantra, "Where you gonna find another one?" Or the proverbial, "The time to buy it is if you've never seen it before" (or something to that effect).
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Absolutely! I am frankly dumbfounded by some of the other reactions. I agree that $25,000 is ambitious, but models, samples, marketing doodads and complimentary gifts, and anything associated with collectible products are highly desirable for their historical and show value! It was probably the centerpiece of Parker's display at trade fairs and I can definitely see a serious Parker collector springing for several $K for it. What serious Parker collector would not want their hundreds of Parker vises sitting on shelves surrounding that thing in the middle of their Parker room? Not to put too fine a personal point on it - but if that was a 5 foot tall Blackhawk jack made out of wood, or an 8 foot long Snap-on 71-N ratchet made out of wood, etc etc, I could name a few collectors here who would be vying for it. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, tools have a collectible value beyond only the utilitarian, and so does all their merchandising accourtements.
ssdave
Banned
.....
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DD T/A
Well-known member
A lot more people can identify with Snap On than the company that built this vise thing.
Identifyability is literally what collectability is built on.
I'm not arguing this thing has no value, just that it has very little value.
Identifyability is literally what collectability is built on.
I'm not arguing this thing has no value, just that it has very little value.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I wasn't arguing with you or anyone else, DD T/A, just registering my surprise, which you may have just partially alleviated.
Obscurity is a two-edged sword in collectibles. Sometimes having something that nobody else has, even by brand, a OOAK, or a FOAK, is a good thing. And sometimes an item is too unknown to demand high value. (To use myself as a recent example, I talked an eBay seller down from $950 to $250 using that exact argument for the Eames Automobile Socket Wrench Set linked here. Exquisite and **** as hell, and valued fairly high because it was so rare, but only worth a grand if it was a more popular name and rare.) So, I agree with your reasoning.
But that's not the case here. If you don't recognize the reverence and cachet that the name Charles Parker has among vise collectors and aficionados (akin to Mossberg in terms of place and history compared to Snap-on in the hand tools sector), it helps explain your opinion.
But rarity or scarcity is the other element of collectibility you're missing in your definition, and they are inextricable. Someone alluded to it upthread paraphrasing the guys on "American Pickers". Have you seen one before? In this case, that answer is obvious. It's what makes the piece interesting. And again, I would agree that if it was from a lesser known or obscure brand, or not branded at all, the value goes way down despite it being so unique.
What we have here is a giant wooden model of a vise used by a venerated giant among vise makers as a display at two World's Fairs.
That's why I respectfully agree with the ka-chingers.
Obscurity is a two-edged sword in collectibles. Sometimes having something that nobody else has, even by brand, a OOAK, or a FOAK, is a good thing. And sometimes an item is too unknown to demand high value. (To use myself as a recent example, I talked an eBay seller down from $950 to $250 using that exact argument for the Eames Automobile Socket Wrench Set linked here. Exquisite and **** as hell, and valued fairly high because it was so rare, but only worth a grand if it was a more popular name and rare.) So, I agree with your reasoning.
But that's not the case here. If you don't recognize the reverence and cachet that the name Charles Parker has among vise collectors and aficionados (akin to Mossberg in terms of place and history compared to Snap-on in the hand tools sector), it helps explain your opinion.
But rarity or scarcity is the other element of collectibility you're missing in your definition, and they are inextricable. Someone alluded to it upthread paraphrasing the guys on "American Pickers". Have you seen one before? In this case, that answer is obvious. It's what makes the piece interesting. And again, I would agree that if it was from a lesser known or obscure brand, or not branded at all, the value goes way down despite it being so unique.
What we have here is a giant wooden model of a vise used by a venerated giant among vise makers as a display at two World's Fairs.
That's why I respectfully agree with the ka-chingers.
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If provenance to two World's Fairs, that opens up another line of collectors.
I would not be surprised at a couple of grand.
I've dealt with a number of collector fields in my day, not just tools. I have a number of general observations.
For one, Lugz is right about the OOAK. I've seen that phenomenon on numerous occasions. Another aspect of this is that just because it's rare does not make it valuable.
Collector communities tend to look at things as if the four walls surrounding their particular field defines the known universe. What I mean is, when looking at the 'forest' overview (as opposed to down in the trees). the communities are much smaller when compared to the general population than many such members imagine. For an item to have exceptional value, it has to appeal to a wide general audience. A giant wooden vise does not have a general appeal--even in this group, there's a diversity of perceived value from thousands to junk. That does not bode well for an astronomical figure in the tens of thousands.
Looking at wikipedia, which anyone can do, the Charles Parker Co. was a huge conglomerate producing a wide variety of products. One of these is art brass, for which it is well known and still highly regarded. The point is that its artistic designs and innovations are what would be featured in a World's Fair or Exhibition. Exhibits showcased exceptional art and innovation. I doubt vises. The item in question is a very conventional-looking vise without any particular artistic or obvious visually innovative distinction. When I think of world's fairs and what is exhibited there, of all the products Parker was known for, I can't imagine they would use this vise as a showpiece display. I bet the seller looked on wiki too and saw the company itself was in two world's fairs. So the vise must have been there too, right? I doubt it--a lot. Here's where that collector field-centric thinking comes in. It's a vise, that's our thing, it must have been at the world's fair. General population thinking...not. It may have been displayed in the sales room or front office of the division that made the vises, and then taken out occasionally to trade shows. But a WORLD'S FAIR? Seller was blowing smoke based on what he found on wiki. Even if it was in a world's fair (not), so what? You see on antiques roadshow all the time how a common item that happened to be in a famous person's house does little to make it valuable.
It's been my experience that a primary consideration of tool collectors is that the item could actually be used for its purpose. Doesn't matter if it is ever used, but the consideration is that it still could be used if one chose. A device that performs a function, especially a mechanical one, in any collector field, must have that quality to command top dollar. Unless, of course, it's a hand forged tool that can be proved came from Washington's carriage house. But there's that general appeal again.
This item is NOT a tool. It is NOT a vise. It is a piece of advertising. As such, one must look at it outside the four walls of tool collecting for it to have any chance at huge dollars. Other than its size, and outside the eyes of the tool collector, it have very little artistic or visual appeal as advertising. Heck, the company name is even just stenciled on the thing, it's not even hand-lettered--if the name is its claim to fame, who knows who even stenciled the name on there? If it were the company that did this stenciling--a company known for its art in metal--they were certainly not prepping it for a world's fair (chuckles). Visually--and outside the eyes of a vise lover--it's actually a pretty lame piece of advertising, almost ugly.
Now comes the next problem. How do you display it? Collectible advertising needs to be displayed to have high value. Who's going to display this thing in a collection of advertising, where it takes up so much floor space, has to be walked around, and blocks the view of whatever's behind it? Maybe a classic car for sure, but tie the display area real estate up on a wooden vise? Real vises are easy to display. So one real factor of value is in the question, "where am I going to display this?" This is why signs are so hot. They're visually appealing, artistic, colorful, reminds folks of days gone by, and....can easily be hung on a wall where it's out of the way while being displayed prominently in all its glory. This vise conjures feelings of what nostalgia? A vise?
None of this is to say it doesn't have value. Of course it does. But when you're talking stratospheric numbers, all the above play into the appraisal formula. It must have a wide appeal to command such numbers. So that someone walking off the street would say from a visually appealing perspective, "Wow, look at how wonderful that is" instead of "what the hell is that thing?" I think it's real-world value is somewhere under $1000. Maybe in an auction with the right buyers present and bidding against one another, I still don't see it reaching even $2000 on a good day.
For one, Lugz is right about the OOAK. I've seen that phenomenon on numerous occasions. Another aspect of this is that just because it's rare does not make it valuable.
Collector communities tend to look at things as if the four walls surrounding their particular field defines the known universe. What I mean is, when looking at the 'forest' overview (as opposed to down in the trees). the communities are much smaller when compared to the general population than many such members imagine. For an item to have exceptional value, it has to appeal to a wide general audience. A giant wooden vise does not have a general appeal--even in this group, there's a diversity of perceived value from thousands to junk. That does not bode well for an astronomical figure in the tens of thousands.
Looking at wikipedia, which anyone can do, the Charles Parker Co. was a huge conglomerate producing a wide variety of products. One of these is art brass, for which it is well known and still highly regarded. The point is that its artistic designs and innovations are what would be featured in a World's Fair or Exhibition. Exhibits showcased exceptional art and innovation. I doubt vises. The item in question is a very conventional-looking vise without any particular artistic or obvious visually innovative distinction. When I think of world's fairs and what is exhibited there, of all the products Parker was known for, I can't imagine they would use this vise as a showpiece display. I bet the seller looked on wiki too and saw the company itself was in two world's fairs. So the vise must have been there too, right? I doubt it--a lot. Here's where that collector field-centric thinking comes in. It's a vise, that's our thing, it must have been at the world's fair. General population thinking...not. It may have been displayed in the sales room or front office of the division that made the vises, and then taken out occasionally to trade shows. But a WORLD'S FAIR? Seller was blowing smoke based on what he found on wiki. Even if it was in a world's fair (not), so what? You see on antiques roadshow all the time how a common item that happened to be in a famous person's house does little to make it valuable.
It's been my experience that a primary consideration of tool collectors is that the item could actually be used for its purpose. Doesn't matter if it is ever used, but the consideration is that it still could be used if one chose. A device that performs a function, especially a mechanical one, in any collector field, must have that quality to command top dollar. Unless, of course, it's a hand forged tool that can be proved came from Washington's carriage house. But there's that general appeal again.
This item is NOT a tool. It is NOT a vise. It is a piece of advertising. As such, one must look at it outside the four walls of tool collecting for it to have any chance at huge dollars. Other than its size, and outside the eyes of the tool collector, it have very little artistic or visual appeal as advertising. Heck, the company name is even just stenciled on the thing, it's not even hand-lettered--if the name is its claim to fame, who knows who even stenciled the name on there? If it were the company that did this stenciling--a company known for its art in metal--they were certainly not prepping it for a world's fair (chuckles). Visually--and outside the eyes of a vise lover--it's actually a pretty lame piece of advertising, almost ugly.
Now comes the next problem. How do you display it? Collectible advertising needs to be displayed to have high value. Who's going to display this thing in a collection of advertising, where it takes up so much floor space, has to be walked around, and blocks the view of whatever's behind it? Maybe a classic car for sure, but tie the display area real estate up on a wooden vise? Real vises are easy to display. So one real factor of value is in the question, "where am I going to display this?" This is why signs are so hot. They're visually appealing, artistic, colorful, reminds folks of days gone by, and....can easily be hung on a wall where it's out of the way while being displayed prominently in all its glory. This vise conjures feelings of what nostalgia? A vise?
None of this is to say it doesn't have value. Of course it does. But when you're talking stratospheric numbers, all the above play into the appraisal formula. It must have a wide appeal to command such numbers. So that someone walking off the street would say from a visually appealing perspective, "Wow, look at how wonderful that is" instead of "what the hell is that thing?" I think it's real-world value is somewhere under $1000. Maybe in an auction with the right buyers present and bidding against one another, I still don't see it reaching even $2000 on a good day.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Welcome to the couple grand club, leg! (Even if it were any of the umpteen other smaller industrial and trade expos all these mfgrs went to in the heyday. NYC hosted one annually. Someone posted a photo of Plomb's display at one of them in the 30's and it looked like a 3-ring circus!
) There are vise collectors in the 100+ club on this site who drop $3,000 PER YEAR on vises - I think that kind of collector would go that large for the bragging rights alone. If it were a Prentiss, I know one GJ'er I am pals with on the other coast who I BET would have me driving up there to get it! And what an awesome sight it would be parked smack dab in the middle of his 'vise room' (yes, an entire room for displaying vises on white wall to wall bookshelves). It looks heavy enough to set a bottle of white oak single malt from the Isle of Islay and a few glasses for toasting on top of it!
Dumber than lumber
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Maybe he could trade a Baby Grand for it? LOL
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
It's a shame this thread was started with this particular title. Someone would have to click through just to see what it's all about. Some won't just because of the kinds of threads one can sometimes find behind such ambiguous titles. If it read 'giant vise' or something like that, you'd have a lot more of the vise guys looking at it.
I think this object needs to be posted in the Vises of Garage Journal thread to get a more engaged opinion.
As for whether certain vise collectors would buy it, of course they would. It's how much someone would pay that is the question. The seller would first have to abandon his dream state, then have to go through some work to put it together with the right buyer. You'd find out what it would actually sell for if it went to auction (which it just might, since the seller would otherwise need to find a place to store it in the interim which not only protects it but also provided sufficient space and lighting for it to be examined--all these real-world elements play a factor beyond looking at a photo and appraising it from that). No one's going to go super-high unless they have to and want it bad enough. Considering how few collectors would actually have a place to put it (which helps separate the real buyers from the wishers), and wants a Parker advertising piece to take that space, that's not much competition, which reduces value. Sure, there's hoarders out there wo will stuff something into any available storage they have, but they don't pay anywhere near retail (whatever that might be here) for anything. The fewer genuine potential buyers, the less someone would have to pay for it. There's no disputing there's a 'white elephant' dimension to this object, the question being how much.
Some will say 'I'd pay so-and-so' for it, but what matters is where the rubber hits the road. Then it would have to be transported, which would add considerable cost into the mix and factored into its final selling price. I still think even $2000 is overly optimistic.
I think this object needs to be posted in the Vises of Garage Journal thread to get a more engaged opinion.
As for whether certain vise collectors would buy it, of course they would. It's how much someone would pay that is the question. The seller would first have to abandon his dream state, then have to go through some work to put it together with the right buyer. You'd find out what it would actually sell for if it went to auction (which it just might, since the seller would otherwise need to find a place to store it in the interim which not only protects it but also provided sufficient space and lighting for it to be examined--all these real-world elements play a factor beyond looking at a photo and appraising it from that). No one's going to go super-high unless they have to and want it bad enough. Considering how few collectors would actually have a place to put it (which helps separate the real buyers from the wishers), and wants a Parker advertising piece to take that space, that's not much competition, which reduces value. Sure, there's hoarders out there wo will stuff something into any available storage they have, but they don't pay anywhere near retail (whatever that might be here) for anything. The fewer genuine potential buyers, the less someone would have to pay for it. There's no disputing there's a 'white elephant' dimension to this object, the question being how much.
Some will say 'I'd pay so-and-so' for it, but what matters is where the rubber hits the road. Then it would have to be transported, which would add considerable cost into the mix and factored into its final selling price. I still think even $2000 is overly optimistic.
outofbounds
Well-known member
I tend to fall in the camp with Dad's Tools thinking on this. One thing that hasn't been discussed (unless I missed it) is does the display piece actually function?. I would presume that would have a lot to say about potential value. To what end was this produced? Also how many vise collectors are genuinely "deep pocket" guys? I'd think 90% of that demographic are retired pensioners who either built them, or used them everyday in their work, and that doesn't imply a ton of expendable income to reach the five figure price tags floated throughout. Just my $0.02
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Well there are good arguments on both sides of the fence concerning the Wooden Charles Parker, and I have been surprised in the past at how much some rarities have fetched and equally surprised how little some rarities have garnered.---Be it vises, wrenches, tool boxes, axes, fans, planes, clamps, cars, etc., etc..---The list of things people will collect and claim as their particular collectable niche is inexhaustible.---So I'll just play a safety and say that the Wooden CP. will fetch (WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR).
That's got to have been the largest vise in the world! Definitely Guinness material. I looked online and couldn't find any current reference to it, not even a text reference, only the photo. It would be interesting to discover its final disposition, but I'd not be the only one to suspect it was eventually chopped up and hauled away or burned. Maybe someone can contact a surviving family member to find out--they must all have some recollection of this display.Here's another one someone posted in the vise thread. For the Athol collector who has to have everything Athol related to gussie up his collection, i.e., signs, letter openers, clocks - and parade paraphernalia!
Thrumcap
Well-known member
Although Parker went to the World’s Fair in Philadelphia and Chicago, I doubt this model ever went there because it’s a modern design. They went to the Eastern States Exposition in 1971... which makes more sense.
The impractical size of this model leads me to
estimate 
a price of $400-800. The target market to me would be a Parker gun collector looking for an interesting complementary piece for his collection, kind of like people buying BMW Isettas when they’ve filled a train station with Mopar.
Thrumcap
The impractical size of this model leads me to
estimate a price of $400-800. The target market to me would be a Parker gun collector looking for an interesting complementary piece for his collection, kind of like people buying BMW Isettas when they’ve filled a train station with Mopar.Thrumcap
txlonghorn1989
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I posted it there yesterday with a link to this thread.
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davethorik
Well-known member
Vise collectors have very deep pockets, well some of them anyway. Still doesn't mean they will pay crackhead prices for a display item. If that was priced $1500 or less i bet a collector would buy it.
sai5021
Member
That's a pretty awesome wooden vise!
TailGunner3000
Well-known member
Vise collector here. If the provenance is true, I'd be in the $2000 camp for that piece.