Quality tools are worth the money.

[ovilla]

As I get older I’ve just noticed that I have less and less tolerance to working with cheap tools, especially common tools that get used a lot. I started with a craftsman 99 piece mechanics set (which I still have) but then slowly went to mostly snap-on and other top pick specific tools and machinery. I work in IT but I wrench just about every weekend on my cars and help a lot of friends too. I find it therapeutic to wrench/tinker and nice tools just add to the experience. I don’t mind working through rust, grease, and oily cars but the last thing I want to do is deal with inferior tools. I just won’t tolerate it anymore. I’d much rather not even work on a car and just take it to a shop. Life’s just too short to be adding unnecessary tool drama to a project. Buy once, cry once! Also, they’re tools so clean them after each use, but don’t be a tool polisher and don’t worry about a scratch.


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[2ndGearRubber]

It took me a LOT of years (way too many) to realize that paying $80 for a tablesaw blade made way more sense than paying $15 or $20.

I can't tell you how many times I've learned this lesson.

As I get older I’ve just noticed that I have less and less tolerance to working with cheap tools, especially common tools that get used a lot. I started with a craftsman 99 piece mechanics set (which I still have) but then slowly went to mostly snap-on and other top pick specific tools and machinery. I work in IT but I wrench just about every weekend on my cars and help a lot of friends too. I find it therapeutic to wrench/tinker and nice tools just add to the experience. I don’t mind working through rust, grease, and oily cars but the last thing I want to do is deal with inferior tools. I just won’t tolerate it anymore. I’d much rather not even work on a car and just take it to a shop. Life’s just too short to be adding unnecessary tool drama to a project. Buy once, cry once! Also, they’re tools so clean them after each use, but don’t be a tool polisher and don’t worry about a scratch.


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I'm too lazy to suffer any more than necessary in a project or at work. I don't have time for crappy drill bits, cheap-o adjustable wrenches, or pliers that just round things.

As others have said; the market has flourished with lots of good quality tools for what I consider pretty cheap pricing. Even moving to "great" quality can be done for a relatively low cost IF you're using the tools with any frequency. The guy assembling a patio table doesn't need Wright-grip wrenches for the job he does once a decade and could probably accomplish using pliers.

 

[Noworries]

a "lesser" tool will not cover your needs when you try to access that bolt on the rear caliper

up until you need strength and a small profile for access, you're golden

So am i to understand no tool other than a high dollar American made tool will workn on said bolt?? Seriously that is what you are saying??

 

[joel63]

I can't tell you how many times I've learned this lesson.



Can't remember where I saw this: "The choice of better mechanics". Or this,

"....there is a difference"



I'm too lazy to suffer any more than necessary in a project or at work. I don't have time for crappy drill bits, cheap-o adjustable wrenches, or pliers that just round things.

As others have said; the market has flourished with lots of good quality tools for what I consider pretty cheap pricing. Even moving to "great" quality can be done for a relatively low cost IF you're using the tools with any frequency. The guy assembling a patio table doesn't need Wright-grip wrenches for the job he does once a decade and could probably accomplish using pliers.

Oh yes he does!

 

[richfinn]

So am i to understand no tool other than a high dollar American made tool will workn on said bolt?? Seriously that is what you are saying??

German or Japanese would work

 

[Mr_B]

As a DIYer, my tools span across the spectrum: professional grade (Snap-on and Matco ratchets) to mid-range Taiwan (Blue-Point chrome sockets, Tekton flex wrenches) to budget Chinese (HF Doyle pliers, Craftsman impact sockets).

Doyle are sourced from taiwan and half decent with design influenced by MAC pliers and certainly good value for HF prices with a coupon and QC'ing best from the display bunch.
They pretty much as good as truck lower line china pliers sets and have usable warranty, main issue is not a great range .

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I've given two examples of imported tools that are quality, one Chinese the other Taiwanese? It wasn't always like this . The Mastercraft Maximums are nicer wrenches than the made in USA Thorsens of my youth. They are also nicer than my pawn shop found Snap-ons of that era ,too.

 

[visionguru]

There are many obvious benefits to well made, well designed tools. But, their is a new generation that is used to buying cheap China product, most new products they grew up owning were from China. This crowd will defend the HF China tool to the bitter end.

Sounds political on a largely economical issue. When I was a poor college student, I had almost always bought cheap tools to get things done, the quality, fit, and longevity of the tool or COO was never a priority, price was.

People with limited resources, people with money to play with things, and people rely on tools for a living certainly have different perspective on tools.

 

[richfinn]

The point is you dont have to buy expensive USA tools to get good quality

You also dont need to shop at HF to get good value

There is a middle ground where you can buy Snap-On "quality" at HF prices (or close enough)

 

[Wakefield]

I suspect Harbor Freight doesn't have anything to compare with a Snap On double jointed spark plug getter or the wrench with an extra thick open end and flare nut end at opposite ends,I understand that the regular flare nut wrenches are pretty well respected also
(Wright may be a pretty good flare nut wrench)
recently educated here (thank you Bob) about the superiority of Snap On hex bit driver socket in 3/8"s drive over another brand
Snap On fan boy here but I only have a smattering of their tools-have various other brands mostly including some ole' sharp cornered Craftsman

 

[Wakefield]

German or Japanese would work

Nepros?

 

[Jmo371]

I suspect Harbor Freight doesn't have anything to compare with a Snap On double jointed spark plug getter or the wrench with an extra thick open end and flare nut end at opposite ends,I understand that the regular flare nut wrenches are pretty well respected also
(Wright may be a pretty good flare nut wrench)
recently educated here (thank you Bob) about the superiority of Snap On hex bit driver socket in 3/8"s drive over another brand
Snap On fan boy here but I only have a smattering of their tools-have various other brands mostly including some ole' sharp cornered Craftsman

The nice thing is you can get individual specialty tools from SO or Mac or whoever....I would argue that spending SO money on largely generic(say a 3/8 chrome socket set for arguments sake) as a DIY guy is foolish, it is absolutely diminishing returns ONCE you get to the middle of the road level.

I do agree that nobody should be buying garbage, cheap as you can buy tools.

 

[Ralf11]

So am i to understand no tool other than a high dollar American made tool will workn on said bolt?? Seriously that is what you are saying??

of course not - re-read my post and tell me where I mentioned ANY country

 

[richfinn]

Nepros?

Sure, I dont have any Nepros but they look like a quality product and I haven't read any bad reviews on GJ

They might even be a bit too fancy for me!!!

I really like Ko-ken for quality and range and very good pricing (in the UK at least)

I also buy a bit of European stuff like Facom/Beta and waiting for some Stahlwille to arrive

I have a fair amount of Snap-On/MAC and a little SK and they are nice tools if a little pricey over here

 

[Noworries]

of course not - re-read my post and tell me where I mentioned ANY country

Please excuse my presumption I had just assumed that "quality" was referencing snapon, mac, proto and various other high dollar made in USA tools and "lesser" in the same context clearly refered to inexpensive import brands. Were I inaccurate in said assumptions I meant no offense. Please allow me to rephrase.. So am i to understand no tool other than a high dollar tool made any where on this planet (sorry Mars, Venus.. Uranus) will work on said bolt?? Seriously that is what you are saying??

 

[Ralf11]

you seem worried

 

[brownbagg]

i like great neck, proto, stanley, i have heard about good wrench, but have never seen one

 

[ChefRex]

I love my tools, I have every thing I need but if something will make my life easier or I think it's cool I buy it. YMMV.

 

[cherrybomb]

I had a feeling this thread might go in this direction.Seems to be no middle ground.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

i like great neck, proto, stanley, i have heard about good wrench, but have never seen one

Oh you mean GM Goodwrench? They are sold at O’Riley auto parts they are pretty good quality I have them in some of my sets as a fill in for sizes not included in the set even had a coworker use one on an impact and it held up with not a scratch on it.


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[richfinn]

Please excuse my presumption I had just assumed that "quality" was referencing snapon, mac, proto and various other high dollar made in USA tools and "lesser" in the same context clearly refered to inexpensive import brands. Were I inaccurate in said assumptions I meant no offense. Please allow me to rephrase.. So am i to understand no tool other than a high dollar tool made any where on this planet (sorry Mars, Venus.. Uranus) will work on said bolt?? Seriously that is what you are saying??

"Middle ground", look to Europe and Japan

USA quality with industrial finishes (generally) and reality pricing

When people talk quality its about strength/design features and how a tool wears over time, finish isn't a deal breaker for me.

 

[Ralf11]

I was just looking at some small Hazet box end offset wrenches I bought.

They are fine (but no Flank Drive of course), but don't have that snappy polish on the finish.

I don't care. I like a satin finish anyway - it prevent glare when I open up the toolbox...

 

[kmacht]

Tools are like cars. A toyota will get you from point A to B but a porsche will make the drive more pleasurable. A tool from harbor freight will get the job done but a quality tool will be easier to use. Pick the one that fits your mission and budget. There is no wrong choice.

 

[CR888]

Pick the one that fits your mission and budget. There is no wrong choice.

I think the HF jack stands might be the wrong choice.

 

[Ralf11]

... A tool from harbor freight will get the job done but a quality tool will be easier to use. Pick the one that fits your mission and budget. There is no wrong choice.

I have to disagree. HF cannot match the strength and profile of some other ratchets.

When you have to get into a really tight area, you need a quality tool that won't break.

 

[sberry]

The point is you dont have to buy expensive USA tools to get good quality

You also dont need to shop at HF to get good value

There is a middle ground where you can buy Snap-On "quality" at HF prices (or close enough)

Actually the econemy end is where the value is. The fear is what drives the up sell to the middle ground. Most of it is now generic rebadge. I bet you got to spend a lot to get a screwdriver noticeable better than a current HF one. Cutting edges on econemy model pliers are hit and miss but so are better ones. Still hard to beat a standard Channelock and straight jaw Vise Grips especially considering their price point.

 

[richfinn]

Actually the econemy end is where the value is. The fear is what drives the up sell to the middle ground. Most of it is now generic rebadge. I bet you got to spend a lot to get a screwdriver noticeable better than a current HF one. Cutting edges on econemy model pliers are hit and miss but so are better ones. Still hard to beat a standard Channelock and straight jaw Vise Grips especially considering their price point.

Correct, what I'm trying to say is HF isn't the only option for good value tools, you have other better options available to spend your hard earned money and get better tools (if thats what you want to do)

I happen to like the Vice Grip 7R, it's my favorite version
Don't buy them at full RRP though!!!!

I reckon I can buy Wiha/Wera screwdrivers cheaper than HF in the UK

 

[Noworries]

I have to disagree. HF cannot match the strength and profile of some other ratchets.

When you have to get into a really tight area, you need a quality tool that won't break.

As a shopper of harbor freight i will agree with that but as i have said in other threads if your snapon ratchet that cost 150 bucks breaks at 480 ft/lbs of torque and my pittsburgh for 20 bucks breaks at 425 ft/lbs and as far as im concerned that is so far into breaker bar range its not even worth an argument , you can really say that cheapass non 'merican piece of **** is junk?? Because you CAN abuse a tool does not necessarily mean you SHOULD when you also have tools specifically designed to do the job!

 

[Kevdynamitre]

I'm not a mechanic, so my meager socket sets and wrenches are a mix of gearwrench, husky, craftsman and Allen brands. I don't trust myself to even work on my own truck, so they really get minimal use at home besides messing around with this or that. As an electrician, I keep only the size wrenches I use over and over again in my work toolcart. Anything I come across unexpectedly, I can get by with pliers or an adjustable. I have some Pittsburgh long hex sockets because they're readily available and hold up pretty well. I've broken the same husky ratcheting dogbone wrench 3 times and gotten a replacement easily each time. These tools are cheaper, but they all do what I need to do comfortably enough.

Pliers and drivers, admittedly, are another story. I pay for knipex quality because I use the things so damned much that I need to be comfortable doing so and have dependable quality. Klein makes the best, most repeatably reliable strippers and linesman pliers I've encountered, so I buy them when I need them. I spend sometimes full weeks wiring machines and terminating wires over and over again, so I've found wera drivers to be comfortable enough to do so. I'm provided with VDE wiha, and they don't slip when I'm doing sketchier stuff where I depend on them. Meters are fluke for the same reason.

Sorry for the rant, but I can understand why mechanics get dizzy with desire over tool truck brands: these are guys who depend on tools to feed their families. I personally am appalled by the prices, but I also spend $40 on pliers I need a few times a year, so it's kind of similar. It's almost a guarantee that tradesman and mechanics are going to have crippling ailments from repeat tasks with drivers or wrenches, so in my eyes it's important to find tools that are ergonomic and easy to use on a daily basis. I get pleasure out of pulling a pair of cobras out and tightening a fitting, because they're just that good at getting those tasks accomplished.

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[TuxThePenguin]

As a shopper of harbor freight i will agree with that but as i have said in other threads if your snapon ratchet that cost 150 bucks breaks at 480 ft/lbs of torque and my pittsburgh for 20 bucks breaks at 425 ft/lbs and as far as im concerned that is so far into breaker bar range its not even worth an argument , you can really say that cheapass non 'merican piece of **** is junk?? Because you CAN abuse a tool does not necessarily mean you SHOULD when you also have tools specifically designed to do the job!

I really don't understand all the guys who go "use a breaker bar"

A good ratchet has like 60+ teeth. That's 60+ different angles I can use the tool at. A breaker bar has 4 sides. Don't like how it fits? Turn it 90 degrees? Does it fit now?

Probably not.

So I take my 6-point socket and I turn it 90 degrees on the head of the bar, because that gives me a 30 degree offset ((360/4)-(360/6)).

Does it fit now?

Probably not, and at this point I am really annoyed at fighting with my tools, and I grab the ratchet so I can get the damn job done. Actually, I've long since learned by now, so my breaker bars rarely leave the toolbox at all. I won't say they are useless tools, but honestly, they are pretty damn close to it.

 

[sberry]

I would have a different opinion,, I have changed my mind with this,, but it would be another story if the econo/generic didn't work so well. I live by adjustable, Channelock and common combo wrenches, some work so well and are fine featured enough they really became the go to tools for a couple of reasons.
I didn't start that way, I started with some of the best,, collecting was wayyyyyy too slow and got around that with Sears. Today would find something econo I liked well enough before I stepped up if I needed it,,,,, .
I value the proven tools as much as the expensive ones,,, I am about function first. I don't like to losee stuff which is the number one thing but no one gonna bust in to swipe HF and along with the initial cost, the insurance, the worry, the depreciation, the up front debate, the buyer remorse, the potential loss the premium is no longer worth it to me,, and yes I make a living with it,, there are smarter guys but not so many beat me up on rusted busted and stuck and it's so rare I look to top tool to get it. It's not so much better but some have slightly different features and used vise grips the other day for really stuck lines, tried to fit tubing wrenched for some of it for giggles but it's not worth it and reassembled using cheap combo anyway.
The duplication, the variety I got would have made mine a 100k+ wrench set from the truck and I just don't reach for it enough,,, how many 5 minute savings a week would it take to cover that,, especially since I work all week and better wouldn't have paid a single time.

 

[Noworries]

I really don't understand all the guys who go "use a breaker bar"

A good ratchet has like 60+ teeth. That's 60+ different angles I can use the tool at. A breaker bar has 4 sides. Don't like how it fits? Turn it 90 degrees? Does it fit now?

Probably not.

So I take my 6-point socket and I turn it 90 degrees on the head of the bar, because that gives me a 30 degree offset ((360/4)-(360/6)).

Does it fit now?

Probably not, and at this point I am really annoyed at fighting with my tools, and I grab the ratchet so I can get the damn job done. Actually, I've long since learned by now, so my breaker bars rarely leave the toolbox at all. I won't say they are useless tools, but honestly, they are pretty damn close to it.

LOL really?? 12pt socket fits on a bolt in 12 different positions... now figuring the 4 sides of the drive = 4 positions to set that socket on?? Not even in California does that math work. To assume something from Harbor Freight WILL fail the second you do anything other than pick it up.. maybe, is like the guys that pray at the toolgod alter say hf is junk because the on/off lever is backwards! Guess that makes proto junk too... right is on and left is off on theirs also. Unlike most of the haters Ihave actually used their tools. Almost anyone would agree that taking a 3ft section of stainless steel pipe on a ratchet and standing on it and bouncing to bust a bolt loose is abuse at its best.. bolt came loose and I still use that ratchet. Can't say everyone has this experience but its enough for me... like mothers around the world say, how do you know you dont like it... you haven't even tried it.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

LOL really?? 12pt socket fits on a bolt in 12 different positions... now figuring the 4 sides of the drive = 4 positions to set that socket on?? Not even in California does that math work. To assume something from Harbor Freight WILL fail the second you do anything other than pick it up.. maybe, is like the guys that pray at the toolgod alter say hf is junk because the on/off lever is backwards! Guess that makes proto junk too... right is on and left is off on theirs also. Unlike most of the haters Ihave actually used their tools. Almost anyone would agree that taking a 3ft section of stainless steel pipe on a ratchet and standing on it and bouncing to bust a bolt loose is abuse at its best.. bolt came loose and I still use that ratchet. Can't say everyone has this experience but its enough for me... like mothers around the world say, how do you know you dont like it... you haven't even tried it.

With a 12-point socket, turning the drive does nothing to help you position the tool because 12 is a multiple of 4. It is better than 6-point overall as far as fitment goes, but it's not nearly as useful as a ratchet. And of course, using a 12-point socket has the drawback of... using a 12-point socket.

My math is correct.

Also, maybe calm down. I made a post saying I don't like breaker bars. You're flipping out and pretending to know how I do my wrenching and calling other brands junk and... I don't know man. Just calm down. Do you want to have a discussion or a meltdown? Jesus.

 

[Samuel D]

And of course, using a 12-point socket has the drawback of... using a 12-point socket.

A drawback that is enormously exaggerated in the popular imagination. Unless someone has already wrecked the fastener before you, there basically is no drawback.

Meanwhile, bi-hex (12-point) sockets are more convenient to use. I still prefer them.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

If you are a tradesman, you are going to spend more time with your tools than your wife.

 

[garfunkle24]

I find that on a 12pt bolt my 12pt sockets work much better than 6pt

 

[richfinn]

I'm not knocking HF or Snap-On tools, I,m just saying do a little research before you spend those dollars occasionally.

Dont sweat the warranty or the finish too much

 

[Noworries]

With a 12-point socket, turning the drive does nothing to help you position the tool because 12 is a multiple of 4. It is better than 6-point overall as far as fitment goes, but it's not nearly as useful as a ratchet. And of course, using a 12-point socket has the drawback of... using a 12-point socket.

My math is correct.

Also, maybe calm down. I made a post saying I don't like breaker bars. You're flipping out and pretending to know how I do my wrenching and calling other brands junk and... I don't know man. Just calm down. Do you want to have a discussion or a meltdown? Jesus.

So you are saying using a socket.. 12 or 6 point doesnt matter, will only give you 4 positions, 90degrees difference, on a fasyener no matter how that socket is placed? No wonder you think my post was a melt down.. im dropping the mike on this one

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

If you watch any of those vids of guys fixing cars in the rust belt, no wonder they like 6pt. In industry when we saw bolts and nuts like that we hot wrenched them off. One of the guys I worked with talked of working in a mine under the ocean, there it was 6pt one size down and hammered on.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

A drawback that is enormously exaggerated in the popular imagination. Unless someone has already wrecked the fastener before you, there basically is no drawback.

Meanwhile, bi-hex (12-point) sockets are more convenient to use. I still prefer them.

I respect your opinion.

I like 6 point more, myself. I have had better luck with them.

It may even be that I formed that opinion by my earlier experience with low-quality tools like Craftsman (which I don't touch anymore, but it's what I started with like many people)