Exterior Stairs Advice/Recommendations

[CAMMShaft]

I am in the process of building a shop (29'X30') with attic trusses and will be doing exterior stairs to the "bonus room". I am looking for recommendations of the best way to accomplish this. The rise is approximately 15'. I am thinking a small landing at the top and another part-way down (see picture), but I am open to other suggestions. Is there a way to do the top landing without running 6X6 posts that are 15' tall? Are there metal stair options that are affordable? Thanks in advance.

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CAMM

 

[Krfjkm]

Here’s a picture of my building with exterior stairs—- we call it a Sunday House here in TX.

 

[Dustball]

Stairs in front of the window?

 

[bczygan]

Cover them and/or provide a non slip surface for treads and landings.

Bill

 

[CraigStu]

I have no idea if it would pass code but, could you make cuts in the wall just below the 2nd floor joists and run some 2x10 or 2x12 beams through the wall so you have 3-4 feet cantilevered beams for your top landing.? An extra stud or two per beam for extra support at the wall and some type of metal fasteners beams to existing floor joists. One house we owned had this done to support a small 3'x8' deck off the master bedroom.

 

[CAMMShaft]

Here’s a picture of my building with exterior stairs—- we call it a Sunday House here in TX.

Do you know how the top landing was framed to avoid supports?

CAMM

 

[CAMMShaft]

Stairs in front of the window?

Definitely not ideal, and I am open to suggestions to avoid this.

CAMM

 

[CAMMShaft]

I have no idea if it would pass code but, could you make cuts in the wall just below the 2nd floor joists and run some 2x10 or 2x12 beams through the wall so you have 3-4 feet cantilevered beams for your top landing.? An extra stud or two per beam for extra support at the wall and some type of metal fasteners beams to existing floor joists. One house we owned had this done to support a small 3'x8' deck off the master bedroom.

Interesting idea. Going to look into this further.

CAMM

 

[kbs2244]

Check for local code requirements.
They sometimes call for a roof or landing need

 

[Ralf11]

small deck at the top landing, then stairs to ground from there

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

I have no idea if it would pass code but, could you make cuts in the wall just below the 2nd floor joists and run some 2x10 or 2x12 beams through the wall so you have 3-4 feet cantilevered beams for your top landing.? An extra stud or two per beam for extra support at the wall and some type of metal fasteners beams to existing floor joists. One house we owned had this done to support a small 3'x8' deck off the master bedroom.

This is the best way to execute the cantilever of the top landing. Since the existing floor joists are running perpendicular to the joists that would needed, you're spreading the "uplift" of those joists over several (figuring a 4' deep cantilever with 12' on the inside). However, "attic trusses" are not designed to be used that way, so I'd definitely be consulting a structural engineer on that. And there's also the possibility of reducing that interior run by using knee braces on the exterior. Plus, the interior run may interfere with other planned structures and/or items on the interior space/ceiling height.

 

[CAMMShaft]

This is the best way to execute the cantilever of the top landing. Since the existing floor joists are running perpendicular to the joists that would needed, you're spreading the "uplift" of those joists over several (figuring a 4' deep cantilever with 12' on the inside). However, "attic trusses" are not designed to be used that way, so I'd definitely be consulting a structural engineer on that. And there's also the possibility of reducing that interior run by using knee braces on the exterior. Plus, the interior run may interfere with other planned structures and/or items on the interior space/ceiling height.

Thanks for the feedback. Seems I need to find a structural engineer.

CAMM

 

[Pluribus]

Running joists through walls to the exterior is asking for water intrusion, IMHO. Granted, you live in a pretty dry climate, but there's something that just bugs me about having a "wick" going through an exterior wall. Might be worth a call to your local AHJ for advice if they're of the helpful sort. I'd do tall posts before running joists through walls if it was me. Shoot, it might even be cheaper that way if cantilevering requires fancy engineering.

Oh, and if you go with external framing/posts for supports, you could reverse the upper and lower staircases, with the upper part being outboard, and the lower part being against the house. Solves the window issue.

Since it looks like this will be uncovered, I'd recommend expanded metal stair treads. They're not cheap, but they won't be slippery. I picked up some used ones on CL that I'll use for an outbuilding on my property after almost falling a few times on the existing wood ones that get wet and stay wet for a good chunk of the year in their shady, PNW spot. A full steel exterior staircase is probably not in the budget, but it would be nice.

 

[Krfjkm]

Do you know how the top landing was framed to avoid supports?

CAMM

It is cantilevered in by about 8’ and (I think) doubled or tripled. We had an 82 yr old engineer do the drawings— he’s old school as heck! Drove the builder crazy but I was smiling. You could park cars on the top floor if you wanted .

 

[captain14]

GJ member pgray007 is working on his exterior staircase in this thread correcting mistakes from the original installation.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452895&highlight=Exterior+stairs

 

[labonbjones]

Check out Stair Zone. They have an online stair builder that shows pricing online.

 

[CAMMShaft]

GJ member pgray007 is working on his exterior staircase in this thread correcting mistakes from the original installation.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452895&highlight=Exterior+stairs

Thanks, I am going to follow this.

Check out Stair Zone. They have an online stair builder that shows pricing online.

Thanks for the suggestion. I priced some stairs on their site and it is close to $6000 unfortunately.

CAMM

 

[MDM]

You could make the deck longer so that the stairs come down on the outside of the window. Then set the landing at the outside corner of the building so the stairs wrap around the corner, going down the side of the building. If you're cool with having the lower half of the stairs on the side.

 

[CAMMShaft]

You could make the deck longer so that the stairs come down on the outside of the window. Then set the landing at the outside corner of the building so the stairs wrap around the corner, going down the side of the building. If you're cool with having the lower half of the stairs on the side.

Good suggestion, thanks!

CAMM

 

[strutaeng]

I would recommend you make the entire stair and landings independent of the building. Will need some cross bracing of the posts (of course, you will need posts,) but that should not be a problem.

Basically, what most multi-family units use for exterior stairs. There's companies that specialize in this, but probably more expensive. They usually use steel channels for the stair stringers and use metal pans filled with concrete for the treads. I would imagine a pressure treated alternative may be more economical, much the same way a deck stair is built.

I would not try to cantilever anything from the inside. The waterproofing would be challenging, and stairs will likely be more "springy" being a cantilever. As for the stair going through the window, well that's not ideal, but should not be a problem. If you are under the IRC code, I believe they require the glass to be safety glass, but you can just put a sheet of Lexan over it.

 

[johnnyradiant]

If you do the cantilevered method (if it meets code in your area) it should be done with careful attention to detail so that you stand a chance of not suffering from water ingress. There are all kinds of dry successful cantilever details in use including here where it sometimes feels like it rains from early fall to late spring and then just every other day in the summer. There are multiple more examples of failures. Usually it boils down to knowing how to do it, planning for it as you're building instead after the fact, and finally sweating the details. When done correctly, aesthetically it will look better than building a staircase from the ground up, and won't feel springy. It also avoids the need for a footing so it stays in the same place relative to the house during it's life. You do need a landing in the 'middle' even if you went straight down and away from the structure. A ladder and a brass pole is another option if there are no inspector's involved but make sure you have a good foam pit at the bottom or be prepared to be an inch or 2 shorter after collapsing your spine from a failed slide.

 

[strutaeng]

Well, I just realized there's nothing to cantilever from the other side of the wall, LOL. In other words, there's no "back-up span." Certainly not at the intermediate landing. And at the attic level the bottom chords are running parallel to that side of the building.

You can't just pocket a hole in a wall, stuff a 2x12 and call it good and expect that to cantilever. At least not with lumber! So cantilevered anything will take some creativity (and $$$).

 

[SALIV8]

Id buy a metal spiral staircase instead. Prefab about $2500 and may fit between the windows as well.

Something like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mylen-S...-Rails-Spiral-Stair-Kit-EC60Z11V004/311553975

 

[tarmy]

Whatever design...you gotta take everything up and down those stairs!

Couches, beds...carpet...whatever. Make sure that mid landing is big enough to maneuver around on.

Might wanna consider building a small deck...8x10 or so for a couple chairs...and a straight shot of stairs down away from the face of the building. Solves the window issue and makes it cleaner to build.

Good luck OP...nice build.

 

[CAMMShaft]

Id buy a metal spiral staircase instead. Prefab about $2500 and may fit between the windows as well.

Something like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mylen-S...-Rails-Spiral-Stair-Kit-EC60Z11V004/311553975

Spiral stairs were my original plan until I realized I won't be able to get any furniture up them.

CAMM