Folks, I am new to the welding game, I got my welder and safety gear, studied everything I can on the topic online, got all my gear ready to do my first weld. I go to plug in the welder and realize that the plug itself is unique to welders. I didn't consider this as I have 20 and 50 amp Circuits. My 50 amp circuit is a 4 prong plug like you might plug a range into. My question is: Is it advisable to use an adapter like this one?
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Welder Outlet
- Thread starter jhendric
- Start date
My question is: Is it advisable to use an adapter like this one?
Such an adapter will work fine. All it's doing is dropping the use of the prong the welder doesn't need (the neutral).
All electrical items should be UL (or ULc/CSA) approved. Its not advisable to use one that's not approved.
sberry
Banned
Weld like you stole it with that baby.
bczygan
Well-known member
What kind of welder?
What kind of work do you want to do?
Photos, we need photos!
Bill
What kind of work do you want to do?
Photos, we need photos!
Bill
nadogail
Well-known member
I realize that the flame guns are loaded, but I would change the plug on the welder or the receptacle the welder plugged into.
not a flame just a question
what's the reason behind your suggestion ?
Install a 4 prong on a three wire welder ?
Remove the neutral and cap off so you can only use a 3 prong outlet ?
RV's have been manipulating plug configurations forever , there is no danger present by not utilizing a hot leg or neutral if the device is not wired for it , probably a lot more danger of having a novice rewire the outlets / cords IMO ,,
what's the reason behind your suggestion ?
Install a 4 prong on a three wire welder ?
Remove the neutral and cap off so you can only use a 3 prong outlet ?
RV's have been manipulating plug configurations forever , there is no danger present by not utilizing a hot leg or neutral if the device is not wired for it , probably a lot more danger of having a novice rewire the outlets / cords IMO ,,
sberry
Banned
I think he meant add a welder outlet. If I didnt have other use it is probably what I would do as the parts cost the same as the adapter but the rv circuit is really good for welding, has a full 50A wire.
Dependinbg on where, what, what other use and often tempted to put a 6 space panel on that so local outlets could be tailored, even 120 for tools so they were not on the building wire in some cases, nothing is as good as direct wire no splice to the outlet for that type of thing. Especially if this is already a ways from a panel on long branches.
In my own case branches would be 100 ft to start with, with panel they are all short and easily tailored. As for approved adapters,,, I bet this is,,,, at least its wired correctly. I found one at a flea for a dollar I bought just for the hell of it that has no label and for good reason. 50 to other amps are not good with minor exceptions one being a 30A trailer that is legal,,,, but other than that no, no 20 or 30 for other equipment from that circuit without someone explicitly understands wire size and over current protection. Not everyone has ever wired an outlet does and guys who have wired 220 are not usually on that list.
Owners manuals on small welders are super confusing at best to the lay person. The basic rule is,,, if it comes with a 50 end is legal on a 50 circuit. I know they list 30 but it is when applied with a minimum wire size, thats listed but it isnt clearly explained, 2 different things.
Dependinbg on where, what, what other use and often tempted to put a 6 space panel on that so local outlets could be tailored, even 120 for tools so they were not on the building wire in some cases, nothing is as good as direct wire no splice to the outlet for that type of thing. Especially if this is already a ways from a panel on long branches.
In my own case branches would be 100 ft to start with, with panel they are all short and easily tailored. As for approved adapters,,, I bet this is,,,, at least its wired correctly. I found one at a flea for a dollar I bought just for the hell of it that has no label and for good reason. 50 to other amps are not good with minor exceptions one being a 30A trailer that is legal,,,, but other than that no, no 20 or 30 for other equipment from that circuit without someone explicitly understands wire size and over current protection. Not everyone has ever wired an outlet does and guys who have wired 220 are not usually on that list.
Owners manuals on small welders are super confusing at best to the lay person. The basic rule is,,, if it comes with a 50 end is legal on a 50 circuit. I know they list 30 but it is when applied with a minimum wire size, thats listed but it isnt clearly explained, 2 different things.
sberry
Banned
To me it's part of adding another machine. Most have a home and put an outlet in for them. That adapter is pretty rugged and the wire in that circuit is very good for a welder. The main reason to add is for convenience. Not everyone works like a pit stop, I don't care to plug/unplug, stuff is used any given time, simply toss the switch.
Raisedonadeere
Well-known member
I am missing something. OP said welder had a unique plug but the adapter appears to provide a standard 120V connection to a 50RV outlet. So the adapter is not dropping the neutral, it is dropping one hot leg of the RV outlet.
If the welder is 220V then I have misinterpreted the picture. It sure appears to be a 120V outlet.
If the welder is 220V then I have misinterpreted the picture. It sure appears to be a 120V outlet.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I am missing something. OP said welder had a unique plug but the adapter appears to provide a standard 120V connection to a 50RV outlet. So the adapter is not dropping the neutral, it is dropping one hot leg of the RV outlet.
If the welder is 220V then I have misinterpreted the picture. It sure appears to be a 120V outlet.
The adapter goes from a 50 amp 120/240 to a 50 amp 240. It looks like a standard 120 volt receptacle in a picture, but it's a lot larger.
The adapter goes from a 50 amp 120/240 to a 50 amp 240. It looks like a standard 120 volt receptacle in a picture, but it's a lot larger.
This...and one of the slots is considerably larger that the other, more so that on a 120v.
To put it in perspective, the orange cord is about the diameter of a quarter.
sberry
Banned
Just out of curiosity,,, is the gauge of the wire embossed on the orange cord? Most welder stuff is number 8, I was just curious if it was 6 which is what the original circuit should be if it is cable, if its piped it can be 8.
Raisedonadeere
Well-known member
A lot larger, that settles my confliction. Now I wonder if i am going to start seeing those things every time I go into a box store or electrical house, like I start hearing a word all the time once I learned of it claiming I had never heard it before.
sberry
Banned
I paid a buck for this gem at a flea. I had to buy it just for the forum. No writing, not a single ID mark, nothing on it.
As far as I know or can think it thru at tghis p[oint the only adapters that are legal from 4 wire 50 is the original one in this thread and a 50 to 30 travel trailer. This is the reason for the "listing",,, it really doesnt do much to insure the quality so to speak but that its a legal type.
There is no 50 to 120V 15 or 20A, it would need an expensive type breaker, a button to one like a power strip would not fly. The button on that stuff is for thermal overload, not really short circuit protection, that still comes from the existing circuit at 20A
As far as I know or can think it thru at tghis p[oint the only adapters that are legal from 4 wire 50 is the original one in this thread and a 50 to 30 travel trailer. This is the reason for the "listing",,, it really doesnt do much to insure the quality so to speak but that its a legal type.
There is no 50 to 120V 15 or 20A, it would need an expensive type breaker, a button to one like a power strip would not fly. The button on that stuff is for thermal overload, not really short circuit protection, that still comes from the existing circuit at 20A
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sberry
Banned
This is part of the reason we might use a panel in some cases. On long circuits may need to upsize wire for voltage drop, in my building its 100 ft or more before we get there and wish I would have ran another panel to the other side of my storage instead of branches mainly because I did so much future proof with that I wouldnt ever had done if there was basically endless power available and just wouldnt have done so much secondary,,, I know this, was distracted and ran 4 circuits, upsized each and sits there 10% utilized. If I was to do this again would simply Put another panel and a couple recepts, plug in power strips or probably switched outlet to it and cord hang up some lights. Took a long time and a lot of stuff for **** I dont use.
The best shop wires I ever did was design and build as it went. When I start blank its not good. Get the big stuff right, where it comes up and in, pipe under the slab to avoid having to go over doors. You can over do under floor, a couple places I really could went sideways which lets it be tapped as needed. Hard to get as good and effecient as wire as you go. I have a little I could detract in the shop without any service loss but its installed and done. The farther down the line the better the design got and,,, lights change so much. At one point every one was 500 watt. It was nice heat in the winter and it seems weird now to be able to daisey chain, multi plug fixtures with absolutely no regard to overload or even parasitic load to a tool circuit. Cant even find enough to plug in to overload a 16 cord.
The best shop wires I ever did was design and build as it went. When I start blank its not good. Get the big stuff right, where it comes up and in, pipe under the slab to avoid having to go over doors. You can over do under floor, a couple places I really could went sideways which lets it be tapped as needed. Hard to get as good and effecient as wire as you go. I have a little I could detract in the shop without any service loss but its installed and done. The farther down the line the better the design got and,,, lights change so much. At one point every one was 500 watt. It was nice heat in the winter and it seems weird now to be able to daisey chain, multi plug fixtures with absolutely no regard to overload or even parasitic load to a tool circuit. Cant even find enough to plug in to overload a 16 cord.
sberry
Banned
Most of my shop circuits are 10 ft, couple 30. Many way less. There is way less on a breaker, it cost a breaker but the rest was low, little extra wire to go to panel vs daisey chain though and super easy to tailor. A got an A frame with its own power and lights and simply pulled to more wires 10 ft long direct to another outlet up about reach height for a circuit just to its own. I got nothing against adding a spur for a 4x4 with a recept and a switch and use simple cords for some stuff, nothing beats a simple switch and they make so much plug, adapter, lots of neat stuff.
We get question about racing and utility trailers. While its tempting to wanna chrome it all would wire it like a pop up and invert lights to 120 if I wanted to use battery and same cord/feed if genset as land line. Hook lights and anything a guy wanted to run from battery to a power strip, hang up lamp cords, plug strip in to inverter for 12 and to an outlet for land, super simple, get rid of any secondary 12V junk.
The point is,,, the adapter is good, very simple and safe. Make sure it all works, maybe you dont really want the recept there? Depending on machine the electric can vary and you can always fall back to the adapter should the day come you got to burn hard on a 250 mig or even a buzzer lining a dump truck.
Most new welders especially in hobby maintenance class are 30A and 14 wire anymore and some inverters not even that actual. Burn off a 1/8 lohy at 15Ax240V. 1/3 what is used to be. 211 is 1/2 a buzzer on the older models, I didnt look at the inverter. Last welder I did for someone else was 2 outlets, 12 AC wire home run, cut a 100 ft in half, paired them on a 30 breaker. Wire 1 size better than either machine he is going to use at that distance. If he needs another circuit someday so be it. Had one and bought one intentionally for the place.
With the factory mvp adapter are legal on 50A but if I was running convenience outlet would out of simplicity and tailoring the breaker use a lighter wire.
We get question about racing and utility trailers. While its tempting to wanna chrome it all would wire it like a pop up and invert lights to 120 if I wanted to use battery and same cord/feed if genset as land line. Hook lights and anything a guy wanted to run from battery to a power strip, hang up lamp cords, plug strip in to inverter for 12 and to an outlet for land, super simple, get rid of any secondary 12V junk.
The point is,,, the adapter is good, very simple and safe. Make sure it all works, maybe you dont really want the recept there? Depending on machine the electric can vary and you can always fall back to the adapter should the day come you got to burn hard on a 250 mig or even a buzzer lining a dump truck.
Most new welders especially in hobby maintenance class are 30A and 14 wire anymore and some inverters not even that actual. Burn off a 1/8 lohy at 15Ax240V. 1/3 what is used to be. 211 is 1/2 a buzzer on the older models, I didnt look at the inverter. Last welder I did for someone else was 2 outlets, 12 AC wire home run, cut a 100 ft in half, paired them on a 30 breaker. Wire 1 size better than either machine he is going to use at that distance. If he needs another circuit someday so be it. Had one and bought one intentionally for the place.
With the factory mvp adapter are legal on 50A but if I was running convenience outlet would out of simplicity and tailoring the breaker use a lighter wire.
sberry
Banned
Takes a lot of pain out of it when wire is 50 cents a foot vs 4$ and the new machines cant tell the difference. Might use wire a guy already has or finds. Peel another piece of 12/2 off, 10 maybe if I had it for free or at cost if I ever thought I was gonna use a buzzer. 30A breakers are plentiful, those value packs always got 1 or 2 in.
Come to think of it only have 1 machine plugged in to a true 50 and its listed for 10 if it mattered anyway, free wire used 6 2 ft long circuit but all the rest of my stuff is fed 10, 2 of them on 50 and 3 on 10/30. Like the op have 50 service available,,, they simply dont all need to be and it wont help them any more. All the 240 cords are 10, ready made are 8 due to the fact that they serve the 250 class wide open melting the gun off with spray. The cord is made for the largest machine comes with that plug, new can use 12 easy.
Makes it practical to run cord vs leads, a guy could stick weld with lots less equipment. Cheapest lead for a buzzer being 3$ or so to a hobby type. Or wheel a machine which can be done also a buzzer can run 10 for 100 ft with 1/8 no problem. Inverter do it with a 12.
Come to think of it only have 1 machine plugged in to a true 50 and its listed for 10 if it mattered anyway, free wire used 6 2 ft long circuit but all the rest of my stuff is fed 10, 2 of them on 50 and 3 on 10/30. Like the op have 50 service available,,, they simply dont all need to be and it wont help them any more. All the 240 cords are 10, ready made are 8 due to the fact that they serve the 250 class wide open melting the gun off with spray. The cord is made for the largest machine comes with that plug, new can use 12 easy.
Makes it practical to run cord vs leads, a guy could stick weld with lots less equipment. Cheapest lead for a buzzer being 3$ or so to a hobby type. Or wheel a machine which can be done also a buzzer can run 10 for 100 ft with 1/8 no problem. Inverter do it with a 12.
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sberry
Banned
whoopsBTW,,, that being general babble about welder circuits since the original question was rather basic and we got lots of guys here fooling with this and there are some areas not clear that need a little work,,,, not that I am clear but feel free to elaborate.
He can even use a 12 cord from that outlet to a modern machine. Could even use it on a buzzer within its duty cycle.
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nadogail
Well-known member
Because my saw plugs into a 50 Amp receptical, I changed the cord cap (plug) on my buzz box to use the same outlet.
3 flat blade 50 Amp range outlets and plugs are much less expensive than other styles.
3 flat blade 50 Amp range outlets and plugs are much less expensive than other styles.
sberry
Banned
I change the wall before the appliance. Old **** doesnt devalue it as much as anything you might want to sell or trade.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Because my saw plugs into a 50 Amp receptical, I changed the cord cap (plug) on my buzz box to use the same outlet.
3 flat blade 50 Amp range outlets and plugs are much less expensive than other styles.
And thats the wrong plug and receptacle as it has no ground on it.