Any I am crazy to replace my main panel by myself?

[reader2580]

I need to replace my main panel/load center/panelboard. It has 14 circuits in it. The rest are in a subpanel powered by a whole house generator. I am replacing an old ITE Gould load center with a Siemens PL Series load center. I have to separate grounds and neutrals and it is easier to just replace the panel.

Am I crazy to do this replacement by myself without a helper?

I will be doing it to 2017 code with a permit. Most of my breakers are already Siemens Arc Fault as required by the 2014 code. I will replace any breakers that don't meet 2017 code.

 

[theoldwizard1]

How is the feed ? If I ever do mine, the feed back to the meter an from the meter up to where the POCO wire meet (10' up, but exposed) need to be replaced. I certainly am not messing around with the hot side of the meter.

 

[reader2580]

My project consists of two phases: 1. Replace the main load center with neutrals and grounds separated. 2. Replace the meter base and install an exterior switch to meet the 2020 NEC exterior emergency disconnect requirement.

Minnesota is still on the 2017 NEC, but I have future plans that will likely require adding the exterior emergency disconnect so I am doing it now. Minnesota was supposed to be the 2020 NEC starting 07/01/20, but it has been delayed indefinitely due to COVID. The state said they don't have a new date yet.

I will reuse the current feed from the meter for now. Once I replace the meter base and add the switch I will replace the feed with 3/0 copper.

 

[Norcal]

My project consists of two phases: 1. Replace the main load center with neutrals and grounds separated. 2. Replace the meter base and install an exterior switch to meet the 2020 NEC exterior emergency disconnect requirement.

Minnesota is still on the 2017 NEC, but I have future plans that will likely require adding the exterior emergency disconnect so I am doing it now. Minnesota was supposed to be the 2020 NEC starting 07/01/20, but it has been delayed indefinitely due to COVID. The state said they don't have a new date yet.

I will reuse the current feed from the meter for now. Once I replace the meter base and add the switch I will replace the feed with 3/0 copper.

Why 3/0 copper? 2/0 is kosher for residential services, and it's even more economical to use 4/0 aluminum. 40 years ago before I really knew better used 3/0 for 2 different houses on what is now my property, 26 years ago the service was changed on one, & used 4/0 AL, the other is still there & it was a waste of money to oversize it, the copper wire was almost as expensive as the Gould/ITE 200A meter main which was $100 then, (30' of 3/0 THW copper).

 

[u2slow]

A big challenge for the inexperienced is to not be without power for a long period while you're doing the work - nevermind teeing up inspections, redoing mistakes, and utility (re)scheduling.

Often it makes more sense to install a new panel or service in a new location. Even if its right next to the old one. Puts time on your side.

 

[reader2580]

Why 3/0 copper? 2/0 is kosher for residential services, and it's even more economical to use 4/0 aluminum. 40 years ago before I really knew better used 3/0 for 2 different houses on what is now my property, 26 years ago the service was changed on one, & used 4/0 AL, the other is still there & it was a waste of money to oversize it, the copper wire was almost as expensive as the Gould/ITE 200A meter main which was $100 then, (30' of 3/0 THW copper).

The special exemption that allows 2/0 copper to be used for a 200 amp service ends at the service entrance disconnect. In my case, the "exterior emergency disconnect" switch on the outside of the house becomes the service entrance disconnect. Between the service entrance disconnect and the main panelboard/load center I would need to use 3/0 copper as it is rated for a full 200 amps.

4/0 aluminum is a total pain to deal with. I would rather spend the extra money on copper.

 

[nadogail]

If you do the whole job yourself, IMHO, you won't have anybody to blame when something goes wrong or you forgot something.

I kind of know what needs to be done as I have watched it done, but if at all possible I would, at a minimum, have another qualified person on the job with me.

 

[reader2580]

A big challenge for the inexperienced is to not be without power for a long period while you're doing the work - nevermind teeing up inspections, redoing mistakes, and utility (re)scheduling.

Often it makes more sense to install a new panel or service in a new location. Even if its right next to the old one. Puts time on your side.

The load center replacement and the meter base work will be done at separate times to avoid a long outage. I will have help from my father, who was an electrician at one time, for the meter portion of the work.

For the meter work the POCO will cut power to the house at 8 am and I have to be ready to reconnect by 2:30 pm. I need an inspection before reconnect so the inspector will be scheduled for 2 pm. My father and I plan to start at 7 am to get what done we can before the power is cut. We will also have the switch mounted beforehand and anything else we can do in advance.

Unfortunately, I don't have room to move the panel. There is a corner to the left and a transfer switch and sub panel to the right. Further right is a window and then the room basically ends.

I have more electrical experience than the average DIY person. I wired my own house in 2001 and massively re-wired my current house. All done with permits and passed inspection.

 

[reader2580]

I am going to rephrase the question as I didn't phrase it properly up front.

Do I need to physically have a second person present to help hold up the panel/load center while I mount it and such, or could I do it all myself? The second person would not necessarily have any electrical experience.

I have no doubts on my ability to do the electrical work and pass the inspection. My father is busy helping my brother build his new house, or he would be helping me.

 

[alfredeneuman]

4/0 aluminum is a total pain to deal with. I would rather spend the extra money on copper.

4/0 aluminum is easier to work with than copper because it's easier to bend and pull through conduit.
Terminations would be the same degree of "pain" with either one.
I've used both, many times

 

[Don1357]

I'm running the feeder cable to the garage. I'm digging the 24" trench to burry the cable. Everything is in conduit and pre bolted down as much as I can, I installed the breaker box in the garage, and will have everything ready and in place so the electrician can make the connection at the meter box. The company charges $149 for the first hour plus $90 for each aditional hour, the plan/hope is that he can do what he needs to do in an hour.

I'm not only paying for the connection but also for the peace of mind that a grown up took an expert look at it, plus the value added of all the asinine questions I plan on asking him. It is going to be money well spent.

 

[u2slow]

A guy can screw a cleat to wall to support a panel while being fastened.

I'm weary of whom I let 'help' me. IMO, you have a narrow window to get the work done. Make sure it's a quality of help that doesn't cost you time.

 

[Toomanytools?]

I am going to rephrase the question as I didn't phrase it properly up front.

Do I need to physically have a second person present to help hold up the panel/load center while I mount it and such, or could I do it all myself? The second person would not necessarily have any electrical experience.

I have no doubts on my ability to do the electrical work and pass the inspection. My father is busy helping my brother build his new house, or he would be helping me.

It sounds like you have the background to do the job. It is always nice to have a second person even if their experience in the task is low. You might only need them for an hour to hold the panel or run and get a part you left outside.

 

[reader2580]

My father volunteered to help me replace the panel on Saturday so I have help now. I wasn't going to ask him to help since he has been helping me a lot recently and he needs to work on my brother's house. He works on my brother's new house five to six days a week. He does volunteer work one day a week.

I was planning to replace the panel myself and only tell him after it was done.

 

[brewchief]

I wouldn't think twice about doing it myself, I would probably just do everything at once, meter can, exterior disconnect and panel inside.

To me the key to having things like this work out smoothly is the prep ahead of time, I try to look at the job and get everything done that I possibly can.

I'd have every knockout that I knew I would need knocked out, every old circuit stripped out ahead of time that I possibly could, all the stuff that only takes 5 minutes adds up.

Absolute worst case you have a generator right? If it all goes to hell and the generator runs all night and you get power back on in the morning is it the end of the world?

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[reader2580]

I wouldn't think twice about doing it myself, I would probably just do everything at once, meter can, exterior disconnect and panel inside.

There really isn't enough time to do it all in one day. The power company turns off the power around 8 am. You have to be ready for power to be turned back on no later than 2:30 pm. You also need to have an electrical inspection before the power can be turned back on.

You really only have about six hours to do the work. My father and I plan to start around 7 am so we can start taking some of it apart before the power is shut off.

 

[Innovate1]

Sounds like you have things pretty well thought out. I did a panel swap to change from overhead to underground feed and upgrade the panel amps but had the luxury of being able to put the new panel next to the old one and run a jumper from panel to panel so when the power company came to swap over I had about half the load on each. Didn't have any inspections where I was at the time. A little preplanning and everything should go smoothly.

 

[zeke67]

I did a 200 AMP panel in 8 hours, had a disco at the meter so I didn't need the POCO to pull the meter and had all the time in the world. From hanging the panel to running 30-ish circuits, I didn't rush it. Sounds like with your experience and a helper you can do it in 6 hours. I'd go for it. Good chance if you can't land all the breaker the inspector will work with you.

 

[Norcal]

The special exemption that allows 2/0 copper to be used for a 200 amp service ends at the service entrance disconnect. In my case, the "exterior emergency disconnect" switch on the outside of the house becomes the service entrance disconnect. Between the service entrance disconnect and the main panelboard/load center I would need to use 3/0 copper as it is rated for a full 200 amps.

4/0 aluminum is a total pain to deal with. I would rather spend the extra money on copper.

See 310.15(7)(3)

 

[frank001]

On my previous house, I replaced my main panel myself. I did it 'hot' (no permit). The old panel had some funky Bulldog breakers, a couple of which were difficult to reset, plus I needed a couple of new circuits. I made sure I had everything I needed ready before I started to keep the time without power at a minimum. Not that difficult to do.

 

[reader2580]

I did a 200 AMP panel in 8 hours, had a disco at the meter so I didn't need the POCO to pull the meter and had all the time in the world. From hanging the panel to running 30-ish circuits, I didn't rush it. Sounds like with your experience and a helper you can do it in 6 hours. I'd go for it. Good chance if you can't land all the breaker the inspector will work with you.

The six hours is to replace the meter socket and add an exterior disconnect switch. The load center replacement is being done separately. The power company requires a slip riser now so the conduit to the ground has to be replaced too. (Conduit doesn't take long, but every little bit adds up.)

It would really be pushing it to replace the panel, replace the meter socket, and add a disconnect switch in six to seven hours.

 

[reader2580]

See 310.15(7)(3)

That section says service feeders may be sized at 83% of the normal ampacity. My understanding is the wires after the service entrance disconnect are no longer considered service feeders and have to be sized at 100% of ampacity. I'll have to ask the electrical inspector.

 

[reader2580]

See 310.15(7)(3)

I was incorrect on what I had heard/read about where the 83% rule on service feeders ends. I read 310.15(7)(3) last night and again this morning, but it doesn't say where the feeder ends and the 100% rule then applies. The inspector said that if I put in a service entrance disconnect that only feeds my main panelboard/load center then the 83% rule applies all the way to the load center. The 100% rule would apply after the service disconnect if there were additional breaker spaces.