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A set of number one Philips screwdriver?

qqzj

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I have a few sets of screwdrivers. It is always the number one Philips that went bad on me. So I don't want to buy another set of various screwdrivers. Instead, I just want a set of good no. 1 Philips. Anyone has some good ideas to help? Thanks!

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FuzzyTiger

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Have you considered the PB Swiss handles and interchangable blades? Buy some handles that you like and as many blades as you want.

They're not quite like bit drivers were the tip is changed but you end up with extra bulk along the shaft as a result. With their design the whole shaft going into the handle is changed so it's essentially like a standard screwdriver where you can just replace the wear component. No extra bulk or compromises like you get with bits. I believe they also make their blades out of proper steel like you get with proper screw drivers rather than the cheap soft bits.

It probably doesn't hurt that they're also regarded as one of the best screwdriver manufacturers.

https://www.shop.pbtools.us/Interchangeable-Handles-Blades_c16.htm
 

username2

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I like the idea of buying interchangeable blades, but the name brand ones probably cost just as much as getting a few of these.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003ES5KT6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

No doubt a person could get most of the way there by buying a decent handle with a locking bit mount and then a box full of bits. I guess it depends whether a person has clearance issues or mostly uses screwdrivers to open up paint cans.
 
OP
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qqzj

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Oh. At that sale price those are a no brainer. OP buy a box of those.

Why is Vessel better than the Wera recommended by username2? I know Philips do not work well for JIS, does JIS works better than Philips on Philips screws?
 

Wamsutta

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I'm left wondering why the #1 Phillips always goes bad. Is it slipping out of the screw head? My experience with Phillips is they will last a long time if you select the correct size driver for the fastener and try your damnedest not to let it slip out.
 

WheelsNT

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Not at all saying this is your issue, but I catch my family members all the time using my#1 phillips when they should be using #2. Thus they goof up my #1. I think the distribution of phillips screws in the wild is like 75% #2 and all others combined the remaining 25%.
 
OP
Q

qqzj

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I'm left wondering why the #1 Phillips always goes bad. Is it slipping out of the screw head? My experience with Phillips is they will last a long time if you select the correct size driver for the fastener and try your damnedest not to let it slip out.

It is not me. It is the manufacturers of all kinds of stuff. They all prefer to use #1. Yesterday I assembled two height adjustable desks for my kids. And I have to hand screw in 36 P1 screws. (I don't trust power tools on these crucial jobs.) I actually used a diamond-tipped Craftsman screwdriver. While working on them screws, I can see small specks of metal on the screwdriver tip. I don't know whether they are from screws or from screwdriver.

Last week, I helped my son to assemble a PC. Even motherboard uses P1 screws. Case too. They use P1 on big and small screws all the time. P1 is inherently less strong than P2. So it always goes out first. My flat blade screwdrivers can last my whole life. They don't get used much at all.
 

Wamsutta

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It is not me. It is the manufacturers of all kinds of stuff. They all prefer to use #1. Yesterday I assembled two height adjustable desks for my kids. And I have to hand screw in 36 P1 screws. (I don't trust power tools on these crucial jobs.) I actually used a diamond-tipped Craftsman screwdriver. While working on them screws, I can see small specks of metal on the screwdriver tip. I don't know whether they are from screws or from screwdriver.

Last week, I helped my son to assemble a PC. Even motherboard uses P1 screws. Case too. They use P1 on big and small screws all the time. P1 is inherently less strong than P2. So it always goes out first. My flat blade screwdrivers can last my whole life. They don't get used much at all.

The small specs of metal is usually the cadmium plating on the screw itself. The cadmium plating can transfer to the screwdriver tip and make it appear that the tip is wearing out; especially if the screwdriver tip is black. A wire brush takes care of that.

Phillips P1 is usually for size #6 screws and down. Phillips P2 will usually be for size #8 and #10 screws. #12 screws can be either P2 pr P3 depending on the manufacturer. 1/4 inch screws are usually always P3.
 

mr.lemons

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I don't think I've ever seen PH1 MBD screws in a desktop pc. Are you sure they were PH1?
 

ike

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In regards to Vessel screwdrivers, my opinion is that they are terrific. I feel like the JIS fits everything better, and the tips on the Vessel products I have seem to be very durable.
 
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measuredtwice

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Not at all saying this is your issue, but I catch my family members all the time using my#1 phillips when they should be using #2. Thus they goof up my #1. I think the distribution of phillips screws in the wild is like 75% #2 and all others combined the remaining 25%.

This was my first thought as well.

...I actually used a diamond-tipped Craftsman screwdriver. While working on them screws, I can see small specks of metal on the screwdriver tip. I don't know whether they are from screws or from screwdriver...

The Craftsman diamond tipped screwdrivers are similar or the same as the diamond tipped screwdrivers from Harbor Freight Quinn and Home Depot Husky and they are among the WORST screwdrivers available.

The overall quality is poor and the fit is below average. The abrasive coating is very low quality and inappropriate on some drivers... like the #0 that is included with the sets.

The specks are probably the abrasive coating falling off the tips of the drivers.

Why is Vessel better than the Wera recommended by username2? I know Philips do not work well for JIS, does JIS works better than Philips on Philips screws?

Vessel makes good drivers but I don't think JIS works "better" on regular Phillips. One thing to note is that many of the drivers that people call "JIS" are actually sold as "ISO", not "JIS".

The Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) is being swallowed up by ISO and some of the Vessel products are marked as ISO, not JIS. But many folks seem compelled to call everything JIS that they bought from Japan... sometimes things that aren't even made in Japan.

A lot of the high quality ISO screwdrivers from other countries will fit similarly.

One difference is that Vessel offers "Jaws fit" on some drivers. It is similar to ACR. It works well on stubborn fasteners. Vessel doesn't recommend it for use on soft metals.

Also, look at Klein, Proto, Wiha, Wera, Felo, PB Swiss. I've used all of those. I haven't used Tekton USA but they look good. I use #2 Phillips a lot more than #1 but when I do need a #1 Phillips then I usually reach for my Wiha Softfinish.
 
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cheechi

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I don't think I've ever seen PH1 MBD screws in a desktop pc. Are you sure they were PH1?
this is exactly right. you need to use #2 for almost every screw inside that PC.
the coarse are #6-32 and the fine are M3x4. Both almost universally have P2 heads though some will be slotted torx (not common much anymore).


Most boards & external enclosures, the M.2 retention screws are P1. It's the only one you may encounter in a desktop PC short of some really specialty case.

For notebooks, I find more P0 or P00 than P1, at something like 4:1. More likely to see Torx than P1 actually.

Buy a couple new HF and go from there, I just bought 15 new in sizes we needed and like them as well as any I ever use.

this is an excellent idea for OP. buy the red & blue handle set for $9 from HF. I find JIS P1 is better than Phillips P1 and those in the HF set are JIS tips. Much cheaper than drivers marketed as JIS or DIN or ISO standards and much more longevity (I have a coworker who likes to mistake P2 for P1 just like OP) than most other no name drivers. I've bought him 2 sets of these and retired his other ruined drivers.
 

FuzzyTiger

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Why is Vessel better than the Wera recommended by username2? I know Philips do not work well for JIS, does JIS works better than Philips on Philips screws?

I was seeing the Vessel megadora on sale at just a little over half the price of the Wera. I'd say the Wera and Vessel are probably the two best screwdrivers out there and more or less equal in performance so if you can get one for significantly less, jump on it!
 

measuredtwice

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I was seeing the Vessel megadora on sale at just a little over half the price of the Wera....

Do you have a link to the Vessel at half the price? Cheapest that I've seen Vessel is from Japan (Amazon.co.jp for example) but the shipping cost adds a lot.

I like Vessel but I've probably spent as much or more on Vessel, after you factor in the cost of shipping, compared to any other screwdriver that I own, including PB Swiss. I do like my Megadora #2 with Jaws Fit but it wasn't cheap.
 

FuzzyTiger

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Do you have a link to the Vessel at half the price? Cheapest that I've seen Vessel is from Japan (Amazon.co.jp for example) but the shipping cost adds a lot.

I like Vessel but I've probably spent as much or more on Vessel, after you factor in the cost of shipping, compared to any other screwdriver that I own, including PB Swiss. I do like my Megadora #2 with Jaws Fit but it wasn't cheap.

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000TGAMC6/?tag=atomicindus04-20

I was seeing that at $8 earlier. Sadly it's back up to $16 now. I don't know what's cheap/expensive for you but at $8, I'd consider a megadora a steal. There are obviously much cheaper screwdrivers out there but none that justify saving so few dollars in my mind.
 

pizza

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Why is Vessel better than the Wera recommended by username2? I know Philips do not work well for JIS, does JIS works better than Philips on Philips screws?

my take on it is vessel megadora (but not ballgrip!) is better than the wera that was linked to because megadora has jawsfit. it doesn't look like that particular PH1 wera driver has lasertip (wera's own anti-camout technology). i think anti-camout is a very worthwhile feature.

also, just nitpicking, but vessel is no longer making JIS cross type drivers. JIS has moved beyond cross type drivers because this spec has been superseded by DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8764-1. this spec works well in old JIS screws and is what vessel drivers use now. in fact, it and JIS work great in phillips screws you find... wait, where are you? no location, boooo

really, for all common cruciform fasteners except pozidriv and supradriv, you should probably be using DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8764-1 drivers.

i'm guessing wera uses this spec as well now, but i don't know for sure. someone should email them and ask!

edit: if you decide to go with that screwdriver, it's cheaper on azjp

it's an addon item though, so you need to buy 5 of them.

one quirk i've noticed of this azjp addon system is it won't let you check out even if you're beyond the 2000jpy threshold if your entire cart is addon items. the workaround is to add a more expensive item to your cart, go to checkout, and then on the final payment page remove the expensive item. if your order is still >2000jpy, you can still click purchase.

but back to the pricing. ever since mid-april, the price of that driver on azus has been going up. it used to be about 7 bucks before that. but now it's 12usd (and maybe some tax on top of that).

on azjp, it's 462jpy. if you buy 5 of them, that's 2310jpy, and the shipping to me is 1406 jpy.
if you pay directly in jpy, that's 3716jpy. at visa's XR right now, that's 35.70usd, or 7.14usd each.

tldr if you buy 5 of them on azjp it's 7.14usd each vs 12 each on azus.
 
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measuredtwice

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https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000TGAMC6/?tag=atomicindus04-20

I was seeing that at $8 earlier. Sadly it's back up to $16 now. I don't know what's cheap/expensive for you but at $8, I'd consider a megadora a steal. There are obviously much cheaper screwdrivers out there but none that justify saving so few dollars in my mind.

Thanks for the link. I was going to stock up if there was a deal but I appreciate the try.

I would call $8 expensive for a single #1 screwdriver. But don't get me wrong, I love my #2 Jaws Fit Megadora and I would have no problem paying $8 for it if I lost it. I don't really care about #1 Phillips since I don't use it much and don't need Jaws Fit on #1.
 

cheechi

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This is another example of the inappropriate use of the term JIS. It seems to get misused a lot online.

Don't be that guy. If anything, correcting my interchangeable use of Phillips and JIS while I should have referred to them generally as cross point would have been technically correct.

I am aware that the cross point JIS standard is effectively superseded by DIN 5260/ISO 8764-1, but those are not exactly the same as JIS B 4633.

You can still buy drivers specifically listed as JIS from Hozan, Vessel and probably several others. The HF screwdriver set I referred to contain cross point tips that are not either the DIN or ISO standard, but the JIS standard.


The most important point here is, unless OP can link the computer case that contained P1 screws, they are using the wrong size anyway.
 

measuredtwice

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Don't be that guy. If anything, correcting my interchangeable use of Phillips and JIS while I should have referred to them generally as cross point would have been technically correct.

I am aware that the cross point JIS standard is effectively superseded by DIN 5260/ISO 8764-1, but those are not exactly the same as JIS B 4633.

You can still buy drivers specifically listed as JIS from Hozan, Vessel and probably several others. The HF screwdriver set I referred to contain cross point tips that are not either the DIN or ISO standard, but the JIS standard.


The most important point here is, unless OP can link the computer case that contained P1 screws, they are using the wrong size anyway.

Can you link a page on the Harbor Freight website that says they are JIS? What is the basis of your claim?
 

measuredtwice

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the shape of the tip as well as measuring them against the published JIS dimensions
(in all honesty I had my students do the measuring and determine which of the 3 standards they were).

https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-to-buy-a-jis-screwdriver/

No data shown but at least the source wasn't Facebook. If you had just said "similar" then I wouldn't have called it out. Maybe they accidentally got close but appropriating the JIS standard is a bit of a stretch. Couldn't it just be manufactured without good standards? It's a cheapo.
 

measuredtwice

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Here's a photo of a HF Quinn slotted screwdriver that was accidentally ground at an angle. This is not the set linked by cheechi. This set is very similar to the Craftsman set that the OP wants to replace. I've gotten a few of these Craftsman, Quinn, and Husky sets. Some I got in lots (I wanted the other stuff). The Husky I actually bought for $0 plus free shipping on Amazon... but I still paid too much.


Potential pass:
PITTSBURGH Pro 1/4 In. Drive Quick Release Swivel Head Ratchet
https://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-quick-release-swivel-head-ratchet-96781.html

Bought my 1st HF ratchet. The 1/4 swivel. I'll try it for a while and see how I like it. I went with the Taiwan Pro instead of the Icon because of the price difference. Didn't really see much of a difference between the two to warrant the much higher price of the ICON.
The Taiwan Pro was $8 after $5 off coupon.

attachment.php


Fail:
QUINN Diamond Tip Screwdrivers, 6 Pc.
https://www.harborfreight.com/diamond-tip-screwdrivers-6-pc-56198.html

Maybe this screwdriver is for driving at a wide 30 degree angle around the fastener. :eek7:

Although it is a manufacturing defect, I think they are terrible screwdrivers for a lot of reasons... poor fit, stupid diamond coating (especially ridiculous on the 0 Phillips), sharp edged ridge on the handle, cheap steel, etc. The same applies to the similar drivers sold as Husky, Craftsman, and others.

It's funny how Harbor Freight used to advertise "compare to Husky" but then HomeDepot dropped the price so Harbor Freight changed it to "compare to Duralast. Maybe Home Depot should start advertising that their price beats Harbor Freight. :lol_hitti
 

cheechi

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they are inexpensive yes. If you would feel more comfortable with Vessel or Wera (two that I know are 100% GTG with the actual JIS standard and therefore ideal if you are dealing with actual JIS dot screws) then i wouldn't blame you for that.

They are however good tools regardless what store they are sold. In all likelihood the OEM that makes the current line of Hozan (the handles at least are cheap feeling and while they also do the job, aren't what i'd call top tier) probably also makes these, and/or the tooling was stolen/copied/licensed from that OEM. I don't think they are copies of at least the current lineup of Vessel.

Here's a photo of a HF Quinn slotted screwdriver that was accidentally ground at an angle.
Zoinks!
 

bushmechanic

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I don't think I've ever seen PH1 MBD screws in a desktop pc. Are you sure they were PH1?

I've see more strange hardware in computers from various eras than I care to remember, at this point. They've tried everything at one point or another. :D

Honestly, my iFixit stuff doesn't stay dedicated to computers all the time. Their bits and drivers are pretty solid. I haven't so much as visibly rolled an edge, and a little while back I had some serious torque on the #1.

Remember, though, that just because it looks like a "standard" #1 doesn't mean it is. There are several other heads in the same size category, but you're most frequently going to find them in electronics and buried in places on cars if they're present.
 

bushmechanic

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Are you talking about pre ATX?

In many cases, yes. I've got a lot of pre-ATX stuff. Looking for a 5160 PSU PCB retention nut right now, actually. It's between everything with which I'm familiar. Bought one of those identification kits I've wanted anyway.

I hope this string of testers has the right one; if not, I'm going to have to get a thread pitch gauge.

That said, when you dig into some new computers, it gets strange; especially if you begin pulling apart the individual components.

Things are mostly standardized now, but not everyone got the memo. :)
 
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