Tools of Japan

[HenryAZ]

I've read a few comments and reviews saying that Engineer pliers are a bit soft . Their screw removing pliers are useful if kept just for that task though. I really like the small PZ-57s.

I have both the Engineer and the Tone screw removing pliers. That's what happens when you blindly follow this GJ thread and buy something while forgetting you already had a like item in the toolbox.

I bought the Tone first, and having used both for their intended purpose, much prefer the Tone. The Tone has a slightly larger opening for the screw head.

 

[Griff79]

First set of Koken sockets. They are 3/8 nut grip. Seem well made but the finish is rough, almost purposely textured. I did not expect this. I thought they would be smoothly jeweled due to the effusive praise they receive here. I have one question, how are the regular sockets finished and how do they differ from the Zeal series?
Griff

 

[pizza]

First set of Koken sockets. They are 3/8 nut grip. Seem well made but the finish is rough, almost purposely textured. I did not expect this. I thought they would be smoothly jeweled due to the effusive praise they receive here. I have one question, how are the regular sockets finished and how do they differ from the Zeal series?
Griff

nice! i'm picking up that same set soon.

not sure if you if you were implying this, but those nut grips aren't z-series.

i don't have their regular sockets, but the z sockets are a dual finish. on the bottom, they have that same satin finish.

i find satin to be pretty attractive (i like the look of wera's stuff for this reason). it doesn't show fingerprints, and it hides dings and scrapes more easily. but obviously it's less impressive (and less expensive) than flawless chrome like that of nepros for example. but with my nepros stuff, i always feel OCD kicking in. i reach for the microfiber to buff it. ugh.

the top part of z sockets is a smooth chrome, but it's not flawless. it has a fine, horizontal brushed finish.

i'll try my best to show it.

here's a few z sets (1/2" on top, 3/8" deep, and 1/4" on the bottom):

here's some macros of 1/2" sockets:

 

[M6erfan]

Ko-ken sockets are beauts.

 

[Negen]

First off your set is more or less a specialty set than the more common choices. Zeal are probably a favorite amongst the auto mechanics due to their low profile and ease to fit into tight spots. Most are only partial mat finished around the lower section where the numbers are cut in.

The extra series which seems to be limited is the only set I have have that is full polished. But some other series may be fully polished as well.

First set of Koken sockets. They are 3/8 nut grip. Seem well made but the finish is rough, almost purposely textured. I did not expect this. I thought they would be smoothly jeweled due to the effusive praise they receive here. I have one question, how are the regular sockets finished and how do they differ from the Zeal series?
Griff

These are my examples from the
3400MSP series
2300x series
3400MZ series
3300MZ series
3300M series
And the last one is a 32 mm oil cap socket so it may or may not represent the series much but it's model number is 3400M-24 32

A giveaway for the zeal series is the double step down towards the bottom of the socket vs the single step down of the non zeal. Other features of zeal are lower profile and maybe slightly tighter fit. The detents are also different slightly on the zeal.

An update on the extra series knurling.
At first I reported it was not so functional but after a few brake jobs and oil changes it does seem to be a functional type of knurling.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Griff79]

nice! i'm picking up that same set soon.

not sure if you if you were implying this, but those nut grips aren't z-series.

i don't have their regular sockets, but the z sockets are a dual finish. on the bottom, they have that same satin finish.

i find satin to be pretty attractive (i like the look of wera's stuff for this reason). it doesn't show fingerprints, and it hides dings and scrapes more easily. but obviously it's less impressive (and less expensive) than flawless chrome like that of nepros for example. but with my nepros stuff, i always feel OCD kicking in. i reach for the microfiber to buff it. ugh.

the top part of z sockets is a smooth chrome, but it's not flawless. it has a fine, horizontal brushed finish.

i'll try my best to show it.

here's a few z sets (1/2" on top, 3/8" deep, and 1/4" on the bottom):

here's some macros of 1/2" sockets:

First off your set is more or less a specialty set than the more common choices. Zeal are probably a favorite amongst the auto mechanics due to their low profile and ease to fit into tight spots. Most are only partial mat finished around the lower section where the numbers are cut in.

The extra series which seems to be limited is the only set I have have that is full polished. But some other series may be fully polished as well.These are my examples from the
3400MSP series
2300x series
3400MZ series
3300MZ series
3300M series
And the last one is a 32 mm oil cap socket so it may or may not represent the series much but it's model number is 3400M-24 32

A giveaway for the zeal series is the double step down towards the bottom of the socket vs the single step down of the non zeal. Other features of zeal are lower profile and maybe slightly tighter fit. The detents are also different slightly on the zeal.

An update on the extra series knurling.
At first I reported it was not so functional but after a few brake jobs and oil changes it does seem to be a functional type of knurling.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

I think I do like the satin finish over the polished, easier to see the size stamping.

Thanks for the comparison and the photos. I wonder why they do the 1/2 polish 1/2 satin on the Zeal?

Negen, great photos. I have a better understanding of the finishes.

Pizza, thanks, I knew the nut grips were not Zeal, did not make my question very clear, sorry. Seems like the Zeal are lower profile to reach tighter spots.

My set skipped 16,18,20mm. Are these sizes use infrequently?

By they way, I ordered from PalMac and got the shipment from MA to CO in about a week. Not too bad.
Griff

 

[mazdeuce]

None of Zeal ratchets are quick release. My assumption is that the shape and satin is intentional to make gripping the socket to pull it off easier with greasy hands. The same reason I like to use Wera sockets when working on something dirty.

 

[pizza]

Negen,

where'd you buy your extra-series sockets? also, i heard it's a series that targets the UK.

I wonder why they do the 1/2 polish 1/2 satin on the Zeal?

dunno, but with that and the "scalloped" shape, i think they look pretty cool.

Seems like the Zeal are lower profile to reach tighter spots.
Griff

yes, but there's more to it.
the ball detent groove is shaped to significantly reduce slop/wobble with the ratchet via the square drive. the hex side is also designed to tighter tolerances (and a bit less clearance) for a more snug fit with the fastener you're working on.

 

[Dave455]

I think I do like the satin finish over the polished, easier to see the size stamping.

Thanks for the comparison and the photos. I wonder why they do the 1/2 polish 1/2 satin on the Zeal?

Negen, great photos. I have a better understanding of the finishes.

Pizza, thanks, I knew the nut grips were not Zeal, did not make my question very clear, sorry. Seems like the Zeal are lower profile to reach tighter spots.

My set skipped 16,18,20mm. Are these sizes use infrequently?

By they way, I ordered from PalMac and go the shipment from MA to CO in about a week. Not too bad.
Griff

The half polish / half satin is pretty much their standard finish. Here’s one of their regular sockets. It’s not really a satin, more of a slightly stippled finish, and obviously to help grip.

Both the regular and Z series / Zeal have a similar finish. The Z series maybe a little more matte, but then the socket shown is quite well used, so might look a bit more shiny now.

Yes, the Z Series are exactly what you suggest, lower profile, and minimal size.

16 and 18 are standard “ISO” sizes, instead of 17 and 19. You will find them on a lot of modern British vehicles, and in theory, DIN (German standard) are gradually switching to them, but don’t hold your breath. 20 is very rare, not a standard size in any of the current standards, but that doesn’t mean it won’t turn up somewhere!

The “Extra” are all polished, for those who want it. I might try some, but as I already have regular, deep, nut grip, surface drive, universal and impact, many in metric, SAE and Whitworth, plus some Z Series, I can’t justify much more KoKen right now...

Edit - an second picture showing the regular socket compared to the Z series. The Z series is not a huge amount thinner (very difficult) but is appreciably shorter. Although the finish looks poorer on the standard socket, that one has been used far more than the Z series. They were comparable when new, as far as I can recall.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

Negen,

where'd you buy your extra-series sockets? also, i heard it's a series that targets the UK.



dunno, but with that and the "scalloped" shape, i think they look pretty cool.



yes, but there's more to it.
the ball detent groove is shaped to significantly reduce slop/wobble with the ratchet via the square drive. the hex side is also designed to tighter tolerances (and a bit less clearance) for a more snug fit with the fastener you're working on.

They also have the thumb pads on the back of the ratchet so if a nut or bolt is too loose to engage the ratchet, you can provide additional resistance with your thumb or finger rather than having to work a second hand in there to hold the socket.

Edit: Actually, I've never seen that feature on any other ratchet and I don't ever see any mention of it. Is it a unique Koken thing or is it just a common thing that I've just never encountered for some reason?

 

[Negen]

https://www.uktools.com/koken-38-extra-set-14-semi-deep-set-deal.html

Here the link is also up a few posts bought it a few months back. About a week or so shipping from UK to Seattle.

Negen,

where'd you buy your extra-series sockets? also, i heard it's a series that targets the UK.



dunno, but with that and the "scalloped" shape, i think they look pretty cool.



yes, but there's more to it.
the ball detent groove is shaped to significantly reduce slop/wobble with the ratchet via the square drive. the hex side is also designed to tighter tolerances (and a bit less clearance) for a more snug fit with the fastener you're working on.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[pizza]

They also have the thumb pads on the back of the ratchet so if a nut or bolt is too loose to engage the ratchet, you can provide additional resistance with your thumb or finger rather than having to work a second hand in there to hold the socket.

Edit: Actually, I've never seen that feature on any other ratchet and I don't ever see any mention of it. Is it a unique Koken thing or is it just a common thing that I've just never encountered for some reason?

i see the black pad you're talking about. it's connected to the square drive.

sorry, i must be dense today, but i don't understand how to use it.

if you put your finger on it, you're effectively increasing the backdrag. doesn't that make it harder to get a loose bolt started?

 

[M6erfan]

i see the black pad you're talking about. it's connected to the square drive.

sorry, i must be dense today, but i don't understand how to use it.

if you put your finger on it, you're effectively increasing the backdrag. doesn't that make it harder to get a loose bolt started?

It's handy if you have a loose fitting bolt/screw. A little finger pressure holds the fastener as you swing the ratchet back, without turning the fastener back out. Very handy detail.

 

[pizza]

It's handy if you have a loose fitting bolt/screw. A little finger pressure holds the fastener as you swing the ratchet back, without turning the fastener back out. Very handy detail.

i'm not trying to be difficult, but doesn't it have the opposite effect?

by putting your finger on it, you increase the ratcheting mechanism's resistance (increase backdrag). this means you do turn the fastener back out. you're fighting the click-click-click.

 

[M6erfan]

i'm not trying to be difficult, but doesn't it have the opposite effect?

by putting your finger on it, you increase the ratcheting mechanism's resistance (increase backdrag). this means you do turn the fastener back out. you're fighting the click-click-click.

No, because the ratchet head rotates around that pad. It would be like holding the fastener with your finger.

 

[bwringer]

First set of Koken sockets. They are 3/8 nut grip. Seem well made but the finish is rough, almost purposely textured. I did not expect this. I thought they would be smoothly jeweled due to the effusive praise they receive here. I have one question, how are the regular sockets finished and how do they differ from the Zeal series?
Griff

Those unshiny sockets are obviously defective and dangerous garbage. If you mail them to me along with a $5 bill, I'll make sure to dispose of them properly...

 

[pizza]

No, because the ratchet head rotates around that pad. It would be like holding the fastener with your finger.

after playing with it, it finally makes sense. you have to hold the pad with your other hand though, right? doesn't work if you try to use your thumb on the hand turning the wrench.

now that i understand you have to get a second hand involved, i think it's actually easier to just hold the socket, fastener, or extension though.

i'm wondering if that black pad is really intended to be used the way you guys suggest. if it was, don't you think they'd rubberize that black pad or add a rough finish to increase friction against your finger?

although i guess i could see a weird clearance situation (perhaps where you don't have the right extension) where you have room to press your finger on the pad from above, but you can't grab the fastener/extension/socket from below. it would be unusual imo, but if you run into a situation like that, it would certainly be handy.

 

[GrantCee]

I don't have the Koken ratchet, but I do have the Plomb & Proto ratchets which inspired it. They operate the same way, and I've found a few instances where I could get my finger(s) on the rotating anvil but couldn't reach the socket easily. In an extreme case I was able to push on the anvil with my thumb and use the other fingers of the same hand to lift and drop the handle. It wasn't ideal and it certainly wasn't fast, but it got the job done.

I wouldn't call it a necessary feature (or even a design intent), just an occasionally useful attribute.

 

[GrantCee]

I'm in the market for a set of crowfoot sockets. Naturally I checked the Koken catalog, but the only thing they seem to have are the extended crowfoot. I need the plain ol' flat kind.

What other quality Japanese manufacturer produces crowfoot sockets?

Edited to add: I'm looking for the conventional open-end (i.e., not flare-nut) type.

 

[M6erfan]

Tone makes a 3/8" flex set HSCF309F

KTC has their TBNS305W 3/8" set

 

[GrantCee]

Tone makes a 3/8" flex set HSCF309F

KTC has their TBNS305W 3/8" set

Thanks, but I feel I sent you on a goose chase by failing to mention I'm looking for the conventional open-end (i.e., not flare-nut) type.

(I can't get the Tone catalog to open on their site, and the KTC catalog appears to be only in Japanese!)

 

[Negen]

How about these I am not 100% Japanese made though.

https://www.asahi-tool.co.jp/product/crowfoot-wrench.html

Thanks, but I feel I sent you on a goose chase by failing to mention I'm looking for the conventional open-end (i.e., not flare-nut) type.

(I can't get the Tone catalog to open on their site, and the KTC catalog appears to be only in Japanese!)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[GrantCee]

How about these I am not 100% Japanese made though.

https://www.asahi-tool.co.jp/product/crowfoot-wrench.html

Thanks!

(I've never seen long crowfoot wrenches...although there have been times they would have come in handy.)

 

[FuzzyTiger]

after playing with it, it finally makes sense. you have to hold the pad with your other hand though, right? doesn't work if you try to use your thumb on the hand turning the wrench.

now that i understand you have to get a second hand involved, i think it's actually easier to just hold the socket, fastener, or extension though.

i'm wondering if that black pad is really intended to be used the way you guys suggest. if it was, don't you think they'd rubberize that black pad or add a rough finish to increase friction against your finger?

although i guess i could see a weird clearance situation (perhaps where you don't have the right extension) where you have room to press your finger on the pad from above, but you can't grab the fastener/extension/socket from below. it would be unusual imo, but if you run into a situation like that, it would certainly be handy.

You can do it one handed pretty easily. The key is to realize is that you're essentially holding the anvil with your thumb or finger so if you rotate your entire hand you'll probably only engage one or two teeth at a time if you get lucky. Instead what you do is press with the thumb to hold the fastener and the ratchet on the fastener and then push and pull with your fingers (or if you're holding with a finger you can flick it with your thumb). It's a bit awkward at first but since the fastener is very loose at that point you don't need to apply any more force than what is needed to overcome the super low back drag on these ratchets. Once it catches enough that the threads are providing their own resistance then you just shift your hand down and use it normally.

I find myself using it quite a lot actually in situations where my other hand is busy holding a flashlight or holding a part in place while I'm trying to get the first bolt in or other awkward situations like that. It took a bit of practice to get used to it but now it's kind of second nature. Of course I'm using it with my tiny 1/4 ratchet that's about as long as my finger so that makes one handed operation quite easy.

I did also use it one time in a really awkward spot where I could just barely get the ratchet onto the fastener with one hand holding it with the tip of my fingers. I then used my other hand to push a long screw driver against the pad.

It's not a mind blowing feature but when you run into a situation where you need it, you'll really appreciate it like any other tool used for working in confined or awkward spaces.

 

[Griff79]

Those unshiny sockets are obviously defective and dangerous garbage. If you mail them to me along with a $5 bill, I'll make sure to dispose of them properly...

That Is the best pricing I have found.

Dave, appreciate the follow up info.

Thanks,
Griff

 

[tanukiboy]

They also have the thumb pads on the back of the ratchet so if a nut or bolt is too loose to engage the ratchet, you can provide additional resistance with your thumb or finger rather than having to work a second hand in there to hold the socket.

Edit: Actually, I've never seen that feature on any other ratchet and I don't ever see any mention of it. Is it a unique Koken thing or is it just a common thing that I've just never encountered for some reason?

Hey, thanks for this! I'd kind of casually noticed it on my Zeal ratchets, but as they say, "the penny never dropped". Cool!

 

[FuzzyTiger]

Hey, thanks for this! I'd kind of casually noticed it on my Zeal ratchets, but as they say, "the penny never dropped". Cool!

Np. In my opinion what sets Japanese tools apart from any others is the attention to detail. I have some extremely well built tools from Germany and the US but my Japanese tools stand out for that reason.

The zeal ratchets are low tooth count but it doesn't feel like that was a cost saving measure or anything. It absolutely feels like an intentional choice to have lower teeth count to have the lowest back drag possible.

 

[richfinn]

First set of Koken sockets. They are 3/8 nut grip. Seem well made but the finish is rough, almost purposely textured. I did not expect this. I thought they would be smoothly jeweled due to the effusive praise they receive here. I have one question, how are the regular sockets finished and how do they differ from the Zeal series?
Griff

I have some nut-grip sockets, they are brilliant

Invaluble for automotive jobs with awkward access

I like the regular Ko-Ken satin finish, Grippy compared to chrome

 

[GrantCee]

Question (especially for Superautobacs): Koken 3753SM or Nepros NBR390H?

I plan to use it in conjunction with a breaker bar as a substitute for a flex ratchet, and alone as a substitute for a stubby ratchet. Pros/cons?

 

[Negen]

The ratcheting functions would be equal to their full size ratchet equals so which ever style you prefer. I would go both since this is gj.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Griff79]

I have some nut-grip sockets, they are brilliant

Invaluble for automotive jobs with awkward access

I like the regular Ko-Ken satin finish, Grippy compared to chrome

Rich,
I think I do like satin better than full polish. I have a couple of stray Williams wrenches that have satin and I have always like them.

Without this forum I would have never found out about Koken or the other Japanese tools.

I do know about Japanese knives though.
Griff

 

[GrantCee]

I would go both since this is gj.

Eminently reasonable answer.

 

[pizza]

Question (especially for Superautobacs): Koken 3753SM or Nepros NBR390H?

I plan to use it in conjunction with a breaker bar as a substitute for a flex ratchet, and alone as a substitute for a stubby ratchet. Pros/cons?

do you want quick release or not?

NBR390H has quick release, 3753SM does not.
btw koken also makes 3753SMB which has QR.

https://palmac.net/koken-3753sm-multi-purpose-short-ratchet-3-8-inch-square-drive/
https://palmac.net/koken-z-series-3753smb-multi-purpose-rachet-3-8-inch-square-drive/

3753SM(B) is 24 tooth.

NBR390H is 90 tooth. more expensive.

they have different aesthetics. nepros chrome is nicer.

koken's direction selection switch operates reversed compared to most brands which bugs some people.

in addition to the opening on top, koken has another spot on the side to stick a breaker bar:

nepros only has the one opening on top.

 

[GrantCee]

3753SM(B) is 24 tooth.
NBR390H is 90 tooth. more expensive.

I get the impression people are happy with Koken's coarser tooth counts, and I'll admit I got along fine for a couple of decades with the old Proto pear-head ratchets, so maybe it's not as important as it's made out to be.

in addition to the opening on top, koken has another spot on the side to stick a breaker bar [...] nepros only has the one opening on top.

Now that's a substantive feature difference.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

I get the impression people are happy with Koken's coarser tooth counts, and I'll admit I got along fine for a couple of decades with the old Proto pear-head ratchets, so maybe it's not as important as it's made out to be.



Now that's a substantive feature difference.

The answer is that you need both! Some situations the reduced swing arc is the only solution. Other situations the reduced back drag (I think more teeth inherently cause more back drag but the Nepros ratchets are REALLY good) is what you need.

 

[GrantCee]

The answer is that you need both!

Well, of course — this is GJ, after all!

 

[Ralf11]

Question (especially for Superautobacs): Koken 3753SM or Nepros NBR390H?

I plan to use it in conjunction with a breaker bar as a substitute for a flex ratchet, and alone as a substitute for a stubby ratchet. Pros/cons?

I have the Koken 3753SM - it was a LOT less spendy than the Nepros (which is prettier).

The Ko-ken allows insertion of a bar horiz. and vertically. Don't think the Nepros does.

The Nepros looks like it would feel better in your hand while using it as a stubby speeder.

 

[Qualitytools]

I chose the KOKEN quick release. I chose it over the NEPRO because it gave me more choices in the way I can connect an extension to it. Meaning that I can connect from the top and from the end. The QR was my preference

 

[GrantCee]

I have the Koken 3753SM

I chose the KOKEN quick release.

Have either of you run into situations where you thought "gee, this really needs a higher tooth count"?

 

[Ralf11]

not really - but I have a Snappy Dual-80 locking flex, which is my go to and may add a Nepros 3/8" drive

but I did have a tooth count "experience" the other day:
- I used that recently acquired Dual-80 to tighten a bolt (and thought nothing of it, so I got used to the 80 teeth real fast). Then I switched to a Snappy TechWrench for the torque spec. I don't recall the tooth count, but I immediately got an unpleasant sensation of working with some outdated Stone Age tool as the thing clicked over...

no swing clearance issues, just a "feel" emo thing - I'm pretty sure it won't kill me