Dayton 4Z123F vs Crafstman Block Grinder: which one would you keep?

[ALTEREGO]

Hello,



I've been looking for a decent bench grinder and recently learned in this forum about the quality of vintage Craftsman block bench grinders so I was looking for one of those mainly because it is a quality tool that can be acquired inexpensively.



Today I found a good deal on an old (perhaps even vintage?) Dayton 4Z123F grinder and brought it home. I've read good things about Dayton grinders and if price somehow reflects quality, they should be good tools. The model that I got seems to be in good working order as described by the seller. I like that is very quiet, I don't like that is made in Taiwan (would rather buy USA).



The grinder will be mostly used to clean small metal parts, not in a professional setting.



If you had to pick just one (I only have space for one), would you keep the Dayton bench grinder or would you look for a Craftsman Block Grinder instead?



Thanks again for your help!

 

[lafester]

We need pics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[d42jeep]

We need pictures but I kept my Delta. Excellent unit. I have a fairly recent Craftsman made in the Far East that is pretty weak. I would continue looking for an older US made one of any reputable brand.
-Don

 

[exmaxima1]

The Dayton will be fine once you manage to add some tool rests. The Taiwanese models are very good (I have a 10-inch version). If it was a later Dayton, made in China, I would say to keep looking. If it were a vintage Dayton, made in the USA by Doerr, you would have a grinder better than most Block grinders and on par with Baldor and Wissota.

 

[ALTEREGO]

We need pictures but I kept my Delta. Excellent unit. I have a fairly recent Craftsman made in the Far East that is pretty weak. I would continue looking for an older US made one of any reputable brand.
-Don

Thank you Don. That looks like a good unit right there!

The Dayton will be fine once you manage to add some tool rests. The Taiwanese models are very good (I have a 10-inch version). If it was a later Dayton, made in China, I would say to keep looking. If it were a vintage Dayton, made in the USA by Doerr, you would have a grinder better than most Block grinders and on par with Baldor and Wissota.

Hi ExM,

It does seem to work very nice, I like it a lot. I wish it was an older USA made unit. I've seen some used Baldor grinders for sell locally but they are very, very expensive. I have not seen a Wissota for sell locally, maybe I need to familiarize with those better, some times the seller doesn't list the brand of the tool and usually those are the great deals!

Thank you for your feedback!

 

[Bill C]

Keep it. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[lafester]

Keep it until you find a better (complete) one.


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[torqueman2002]

Nothing wrong with that 1/3-HP Dayton for your intended use - clean small metal parts.

I have the same/similar model for light grinding.

You know one grinder is never enough, don't you. LOL

I am guilty of grinder 'creep'. I bought an incomplete Block, and then another for 'parts'. As it turned out, the 'parts' Block was too nice to part-out. So on and so on, ....


BTW - I couldn't vote. No choice for keep Dayton and look for a Block, or two or ...
LOL

 

[ALTEREGO]

Nothing wrong with that 1/3-HP Dayton for your intended use - clean small metal parts.

I have the same/similar model for light grinding.

You know one grinder is never enough, don't you. LOL

I am guilty of grinder 'creep'. I bought an incomplete Block, and then another for 'parts'. As it turned out, the 'parts' Block was too nice to part-out. So on and so on, ....


BTW - I couldn't vote. No choice for keep Dayton and look for a Block, or two or ...
LOL

Hi Torqueman,

I hear you. I first encountered the GJ forum looking for a quality hydraulic floor jack. Two or 3 months later I had two vintage US jacks waiting to be repaired in my garage, a couple of years later I have 9 jacks in my garage and another one in my sister's garage in Utah, 6 of them still waiting to be rebuilt.

Then I started researching bench vises a few months back and... same story, I have 9 bench vises in my garage awaiting to be refurbished. I'm committed to keep only 2 (maybe 3 tops) and sell the rest. I know some fellow GJ members have way more than that so by those standards I'm not doing that bad hahaha.

I have 2 broken bench grinders (I got them like that, they are cheap imported tools that I will trash) and the Dayton, I'll try my best to just refurbish the Dayton and not go the same path I did with the vintage jacks and vises... I only have a small garage and we really need to use it for keeping our cars out of the heat during summer.

Thanks for taking the time to share your advise, wish me luck!

 

[ALTEREGO]

So... a couple days back I found this block grinder for sale. I reached out to the seller and he said that the grinder was working great so we negotiated the price and I asked if I could test it before buying.

He told me that the plug [emoji366] was missing so we couldn’t connect it. I told him that I had a plug we could use and he said...

You know what? You can have it for free.

So I did!

I haven’t tried it yet (too busy at work), it is a small 1/3 HP “industrial rated” but I love the stand and if I can get it to work... is going to be a really nice light duty, eye candy for the garage.

Just thought I would share.

 

[exmaxima1]

Awesome catch. The stand is worth far more than the grinder, but 1/3hp blocks are great for deburring and light grinding. LOVE the long baton switch.

 

[ALLFAST]

Yes, You hit that one out of the park !!!!

 

[ALTEREGO]

Thank you Exmaxima and Allfast! I didn’t think much of it but can’t beat free and like I said I really liked the stand.

I hope I can get it to work without much trouble.

A few weeks back I missed the Milwaukee bench grinder below, it was too far from me and I couldn’t get there fast enough.

I’ll keep looking for one, seems like a good old work horse!

 

[exmaxima1]

A few weeks back I missed the Milwaukee bench grinder below, it was too far from me and I couldn’t get there fast enough.

I’ll keep looking for one, seems like a good old work horse!

In case you didn't know already, that Milwaukee was in fact made by Wissota.

 

[ALTEREGO]

In case you didn't know already, that Milwaukee was in fact made by Wissota.

Hi ExMaxima1,

I read something in that regards. It was such a great deal! Oh well, something else will come my way someday, right?

 

[ALTEREGO]

So... I finally made it to Home Depot and bought a plug [emoji366] for the bench grinder.

To my surprise, it starts and runs very smooth! It seems less noisy than the Dayton grinder and I don’t know what it is but I kind of like it better.

While replacing the plug [emoji366] I noticed that the cord is chewed up in multiple places and it feels kind of brittle.

I have a cord from a Graco painting machine that my friend gave me but I don’t like that it has white paint all over it and that it is not “vintage”.

Is there a replacement cord that is more time appropriate? Will it be worth it?

Also, I noticed that the “damage” on the safety glass/plastic (I’m pretty sure is plastic) seems to be just over sprayed paint.

What would be the best way to remove the paint without damaging the plastic? How about the rest of the grinder? Is there a way to remove just the over sprayed paint without affecting the grinder’s paint? Besides some rust/wear on the protective plastic frames, the rest of the paint seems to be in top shape.


Oh and the on/off switch... the middle turns it off and both the on and off sides turn it on, is that normal? If not, how do I fix that?

Any other maintenance I should do while I replace the cord?

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[rsanter]

I,would keep that one and look for a 1/2hp to add to the collection

 

[ALTEREGO]

So... I finally made it to Home Depot and bought a plug [emoji366] for the bench grinder.

To my surprise, it starts and runs very smooth! It seems less noisy than the Dayton grinder and I don’t know what it is but I kind of like it better.

While replacing the plug [emoji366] I noticed that the cord is chewed up in multiple places and it feels kind of brittle.

I have a cord from a Graco painting machine that my friend gave me but I don’t like that it has white paint all over it and that it is not “vintage”.

Is there a replacement cord that is more time appropriate? Will it be worth it?

Also, I noticed that the “damage” on the safety glass/plastic (I’m pretty sure is plastic) seems to be just over sprayed paint.

What would be the best way to remove the paint without damaging the plastic? How about the rest of the grinder? Is there a way to remove just the over sprayed paint without affecting the grinder’s paint? Besides some rust/wear on the protective plastic frames, the rest of the paint seems to be in top shape.


Oh and the on/off switch... the middle turns it off and both the on and off sides turn it on, is that normal? If not, how do I fix that?

Any other maintenance I should do while I replace the cord?

Thank you in advance for your help!

Oh and another question, is there something missing on the long baton switch? Looks like some kind of cap threads into the base of the switch (picture above), is that right?


Any ideas on cleaning up the over sprayed paint?

Any power cords/plugs recommendations?

Also, what is a good (bang for your buck) wire wheel brand?

 

[ALTEREGO]

The Wissota made C&H on the first two pictures below popped up a few days ago for $100, it has been sold. Did I miss a great deal?





There is an older Wissota (not sure HP, probably 1/3 as well) being sold for $70 (pictures below) but is missing the covers. I found a 1/2 HP Craftsman Block grinder that I’m picking up this morning.


Is the Wissota worth the $70 or should I wait for a better deal on a complete one?

Last week I almost bought a Baldor but the seller backed out. Should I wait for a Baldor? Wait for a complete Wissota? Or pull the trigger on the Wissota below for $70?

 

[Zrxrunner]

When it comes to power, I'd opt for new cord as opposed to nostalgia on the craftsman. Most older cords are more than likely drag rotted internally as they are externally and risk starting a fire. This site turned me into somewhat of a "blockhead" also, and I have apprx 6 block grinders in my collection, 2 with factory stands like yours. For your light duty use, I would probably just put a normal switch, new cord, and clean up the block u found and use er. I think that style eye guard is glass if its factory too. If its glass you can carefully use a razor blade to scrape the paint off, just make sure it's glass first. I think some simple green on the rest of it will soften the overspray enough to loosen it up. Just careful not to leave it on too long. Just my 2 cents!

 

[exmaxima1]

There is an older Wissota (not sure HP, probably 1/3 as well) being sold for $70 (pictures below) but is missing the covers. I found a 1/2 HP Craftsman Block grinder that I’m picking up this morning.


Is the Wissota worth the $70 or should I wait for a better deal on a complete one?

Last week I almost bought a Baldor but the seller backed out. Should I wait for a Baldor? Wait for a complete Wissota? Or pull the trigger on the Wissota below for $70?

It's missing a fair bit more than the end covers. Also missing the rests, the spark arresters, and the eyeshields. The eyeshields are rarely found anymore, but the brackets for them are nice to have in case you want to make your own eyeshields.(See pic below). I think that $50 is the max I would spend, and only if I needed another buffer.

 

[ALTEREGO]

When it comes to power, I'd opt for new cord as opposed to nostalgia on the craftsman. Most older cords are more than likely drag rotted internally as they are externally and risk starting a fire. This site turned me into somewhat of a "blockhead" also, and I have apprx 6 block grinders in my collection, 2 with factory stands like yours. For your light duty use, I would probably just put a normal switch, new cord, and clean up the block u found and use er. I think that style eye guard is glass if its factory too. If its glass you can carefully use a razor blade to scrape the paint off, just make sure it's glass first. I think some simple green on the rest of it will soften the overspray enough to loosen it up. Just careful not to leave it on too long. Just my 2 cents!

Thanks Zrxrunner! It is a good point you make regarding the power cord. I thought there could be a modern (efficiency/security wise) cord with a vintage look, not a big deal, I mean I don't even know how the original plug looked. Better to be safe!

You are correct on the eye shields being glass. I was surprised at how thick and well made those are! I already gave them a pass with a blade and cleaner but some of the paint seems to be really stock in the glass somehow. I'll probably try soaking them on simple green for a while... we'll see. The rest of the paint seems to be in rough shape, I might end up painting it. I'll try to carefully clean it first, but I don't think the original paint will survive, some of it is already gone.

You suggest to put on a normal switch, is that because the original is not working as it should (turns off only at the middle and turns on to either side) or because is not as good as the newer switches?

What switch and cord do you recommend?

Please let me know your thoughts.

It's missing a fair bit more than the end covers. Also missing the rests, the spark arresters, and the eyeshields. The eyeshields are rarely found anymore, but the brackets for them are nice to have in case you want to make your own eyeshields.(See pic below). I think that $50 is the max I would spend, and only if I needed another buffer.

Thanks ExMaxima1,

I think I will pass on the Wissota for $70, I didn't think about the rests and eye shields (did notice the spark arresters).

Any comments on Baldor vs Wissota?

I just picked up the 1/2 HP Craftsman in the pictures below this morning on my way to take my son fishing (he is 5 it was so fun!). I thought the 1/4HP Crafstman grinder ran really smooth, it does run smoother than the Dayton but after running the 1/2 HP Craftsman I realized I know nothing about these little machines. The grinder looks barely used and it runs like a dream, I thought the on/off switch wasn't working well because after I turned it off it kept running for the longest time! Made me want to replace the bearing on my other two grinders. Can't wait to get a hold of a high-end Baldor or Wissota unit.

I think I will keep the stand from the 1/4HP Craftsman and mount the 1/2HP Craftsman on it and also keep the Dayton until I find a nice Wissota or Baldor. I actually like the 1/4HP Craftsman vintage look and eye shields better than the 1/2HP newer unit but the 1/2HP has the lamp and the tray, it is dual 110/220, has twice the HP and above all, it works so much better.

I like the "nostalgic" factor of the Wissotas over the Baldor's but I guess all depends on what I can find.

 

[ALTEREGO]

I just cleaned up the stand a bit and is looking great. I don’t like the wood base completely so I might replace that. I would just discard base but it does add a great deal of stability since I won’t be attaching it to the floor and I'm considering some casters later on.

Also, I’m having second thoughts about using the stand with the 1/2 grinder instead of the older 1/3 grinder the base came with.

I guess I will decide once I finish refurbishing the 1/3 grinder... I will leave the 1/2 on it for now to use. The base only has two slots for mounting the drill, is that standard? I believe the 1/3 grinder also only has only two corresponding openings for mounting to the base but the 1/2 grinder has 4 openings. Does that sound about right? Will it be an issue?

 

[ALTEREGO]

Hello everyone, looking for advise again!

I have recently sold the Dayton grinder in the original post/question/poll and gifted the Craftsman block grinder to a good friend. I have a newer (80's I think?) 1/2 block grinder that I placed on the cast iron pedestal (above post) and I'm using with a crappy wire wheel (looking to get some nice Weiler nylox soon), my question is, should I replace it with a 1/3hp 612R Baldor? It is probably the cheapest/smaller grinder in Baldors line up, I have another 1/3 hp Baldor 7" and I just acquired what I believe to be a 1hp vintage Baldor (also 7" I believe) and an even bigger 1HP Doerr made Dayton. I will definitely keep the last 3 mentioned but I'm debating between the good looks of the block Craftsman and what I believe is a superior performance of the 80's 1/3 Baldor (it just doesn't look as cool as the Craftsman).

What do you guys think? Which one would you pick between the 1/2 Block Craftsman and the 1/3 6" Baldor?

 

[FrankLee]

IMO, between those two, function over form.

 

[lafester]

Hard to say really.. they are probably fairly close in performance.

 

[ALTEREGO]

IMO, between those two, function over form.

@FrankLee which of the two you think is the better one, the small baldor?

The Craftsman is 1/2 HP, the Baldor is 1/3 HP, should that also be a factor? Thank you again!

 

[FrankLee]

@FrankLee which of the two you think is the better one, the small baldor?

The Craftsman is 1/2 HP, the Baldor is 1/3 HP, should that also be a factor? Thank you again!

"Better" is very subjective. But, if you are keeping three others that can do what you need, go with the better looking.

 

[torqueman2002]

I've 'rebuilt/refreshed' dozens of CM Block grinders and a handful of Baldor grinders.

While the Block grinders are every bit enough for home use, the Baldors are built more robust.

If you go with the Block grinder, the only piece that isn't there is the cooling/water tray. All the hard to find parts are there and it looks great.

The 1/3-HP Baldor is a match for the 1/2-HP Block, IMO.

The Baldor will need tool rests and eye shields, that are probably available new. Try: http://www.baldor.com/contact/contact-us/general-inquiry/

I'd keep both, but that's no surprise to those who know me. LOL

 

[ALTEREGO]

"Better" is very subjective. But, if you are keeping three others that can do what you need, go with the better looking.

@FrankLee I agree on "better" being very subjective, my question was meant to follow up on your "function over form" comment and inquire if you thought the Baldor to be a more "functional" bench grinder with the Craftsman having a nicer "form"?
Thanks!

 

[FrankLee]

Correct.

 

[ALTEREGO]

I've 'rebuilt/refreshed' dozens of CM Block grinders and a handful of Baldor grinders.

While the Block grinders are every bit enough for home use, the Baldors are built more robust.

If you go with the Block grinder, the only piece that isn't there is the cooling/water tray. All the hard to find parts are there and it looks great.

The 1/3-HP Baldor is a match for the 1/2-HP Block, IMO.

The Baldor will need tool rests and eye shields, that are probably available new. Try: http://www.baldor.com/contact/contact-us/general-inquiry/

I'd keep both, but that's no surprise to those who know me. LOL

@torqueman2002 that is exactly what I needed to learn! It was my understanding that Baldors were/are more industrial grinders and the Craftsman block grinders were more geared towards home owners, even though they were greatly built.
What I didn't know until now is how the 1/3 hp compared to my 1/2 hp Craftsman. I thought they would be at least reasonably comparable given that, as I understand it, the 1/3 Baldor seems to be the industrial brand "household" product and the CM model the "industrial" household brand.

I actually have the cooling/water tray on the side because the tray rattles (hardly has water in it since I mostly use the wire wheel on the CM) when I turn it on. The eye shields are not the original ones, I took the ones from the older CM Block grinder (post #110) because they seemed stronger with the metal frame and thick glass. A friend who used to work in the glass industry gave me two more pairs of thick glass cut to measure, not sure what kind of glass it is but I'm planning on putting a layer of self-adhesive protective film on them (any recommendations welcome).

The Baldor is missing all those parts, probably could adapt the original ones from the newer CM Block grinder (they look somehow similar) and build or procure nicer tool rests than what it originally came with.


All,

Now that I'm writing this, I have to go think more about what I have and what I want (not sure if I have the space for all of what I need and for sure I don't have space for all that I want), perhaps you guys can help me see where I can easily use one of the grinders for two functions so I don't have to have two separate grinders for different uses.
Here are the bench grinders I have in order of preference and next a list of what I would like to use the grinders for, what I think I need:

1/3 Baldor 612R (picture on post #24 above)
1/2 Craftsman (picture on post #24 above)
1/3 Baldor 7" (red, practically new with gray cast iron Baldor stand)
1hp Baldor (works, in very poor cosmetic shape)
1hp Dayton (bigger one I have, made by Doerr, works but needs some TLC)

1.- The one that I anticipate I would use the most will have one heavier abrasive wire wheel on one side and one medium/light wire wheel on the other side (currently leaning towards Weiler Nylox and the Dayton/Doerr 1HP)
2.- Buffering/polishing wheels (medium to light use, haven't done this before but I think I would really like it, is my understanding that more power is preferred for polishing, is that the case? Not sure of wheels to use but leaning towards the 1HP Baldor)
3 .- Grinding Wheel and perhaps a sharpening wheel, don't anticipate using it a lot. (Not sure of wheels either and leaning towards the 1/3 7" Baldor... but the CM Block would do fine)

I currently have the CM Block and the 1/3 7" Baldor in use because they have their stands but they do not have the wheels I want/need on them. From this process I have come to realize that the 612R Baldor might be a goner and the real competitors are the newer 7" 1/3 Baldor vs CM Block and I'm really leaning towards the Baldor (even thought the CM looks soooo goood and I think 7" wheels are harder to find). Unfortunately I do not have the space to keep all the little treasures that cross my path

Thoughts?