Leak from condo building pipe caused damage to my unit

[branimal]

I have a high end condo in NYC which I rent out. A week ago there was a leak from a faulty building pipe that caused sheetrock damage and warping in the oak floors (the boards are concave). By building pipe, I mean the plumbers established the pipe that leaked was the responsibility of the building and not an individual condo unit.

Two other units in the building were damaged as well including the condo board president's unit. The condo board filled a claim for all the units and got an estimate from the a contractor they frequently use for repairs.

I am fine with the contractor repairing the sheetrock. Repairing the floor is somewhat tricky. The damaged floor is part of an open floor-plan. The damage is in a hallway leading into a large 600 square foot living room. The damaged oak boards need to be pulled out, new boards installed, and stained to match. Getting an exact match is near impossible. That will leave a stain line between the old and new boards.

My questions are:
1. Am I entitled to have the entire open space (600 sq ft) sanded down and re-stained? That would make me 100% whole. Assuming my tenants are ok with that amount of work being done. I'd schedule it for when they are out of town for the holidays.

2. I am not comfortable with the quality of work this contractor does. He has painted the common hallways and he does quite a sloppy job. Can I request a professional flooring contractor do the work?

3. Should I file my own claim against the building's insurance? As of now the board president filed the claim for all the damaged units.

Thanks.

 

[Bretny]

Get a lawyer.

 

[BillK]

I would take plenty of pictures and them let them fix it and see how it turns out. I have seen some hardwood floor repairs that were pretty much impossible to tell where the damage was.

If you are not happy with the results, then escalate.

 

[LOW1]

Talk to the adjuster for the building's insurance company and see what he or she will agree to do. Some are reasonable, some are not. And read your own insurance policy. Some policies specifically address this issue (it happens when only some of the shingles or some of the siding is damaged) and see what it and your own agent says.

I would not hire a lawyer until I knew I had a problem.

In your scenario I think a full resand is reasonable.

 

[nadogail]

This is a time to cooperate with the board until things get difficult. As a Condo Board Member I want to remind you that you catch more flies with Honey then with vinegar.

 

[ford33]

The damage to your unit applies to your property insurance only. Your insurance will go after the building or other homeowners insurance for reimbursement.

You should contact your insurance agent, make a claim, talk to your adjuster and get it fixed your way.

I've had two large water damage claims in condo properties and would never allow someone else to decide what my plan of action is for fixing it. The building and the board president don't decide how this is fixed or to what extent the damage is to your property. You do that investigation and discuss with your insurance.

People with lack of understanding how insurance work, will say to call a lawyer right away. That is nonsense. Lawyer's get involved when you cannot reach an agreement on settlement. You are not even close to that point now.
Don't call a lawyer. Call your insurance agent.

 

[nadogail]

The damage to your unit applies to your property insurance only. Your insurance will go after the building or other homeowners insurance for reimbursement.

You should contact your insurance agent, make a claim, talk to your adjuster and get it fixed your way.

I've had two large water damage claims in condo properties and would never allow someone else to decide what my plan of action is for fixing it. The building and the board president don't decide how this is fixed or to what extent the damage is to your property. You do that investigation and discuss with your insurance.

People with lack of understanding how insurance work, will say to call a lawyer right away. That is nonsense. Lawyer's get involved when you cannot reach an agreement on settlement. You are not even close to that point now.
Don't call a lawyer. Call your insurance agent.

What he said.

 

[branimal]

Update:

So the situation is a bit murkier than I thought. The leak was allegedly caused by a cracked horizontal drain pipe connected to a toilet's closet elbow. The toilet has a bad flapper as well. So the tank kept refilling all night and sent water into the waste pipe. The horizontal drain pipe is the building's responsibility, while the running toilet is the condo units responsibility. Not sure who is at fault. The condo board is trying to give the entire bill to the condo owner with the bad toilet. Over $11,000 for damage to three apartments. The condo owner called me last night to tell me her side of the story.

I think I'm going to let the building's contractor repair the walls and repaint. I want all the damaged rock removed and replaced. The contractor / painter repainted our common hallways and I'm not impressed with his ability to tape. But in the interest of not causing too much of a stir with the condo board, I'm going to allow him to proceed. The tenants probably want him in and out of there in short order.

Fortunately I've written down the paints used when I renovated the place in 2018. I'm going to ask for the entire wall to be repainted. Not just the damaged areas.

As far as the floors, I'm not sure a re-sand can fix this - though I maybe wrong. See pic of the bowing below.

I had a professional flooring contractor re-sand and stain my entire unit when I bought the place. I'm going to have him give me an estimate. Maybe he can get an pretty good match.

 

[matt_i]

Depending on how long the floor stayed wet, it might go back down when moisture level is equalized. Not a guarantee but it could happen.

If you have a dehumidifier running that helps speed up the process. Its a slow process because the bottom surface of the wood has to equalize in moisture with the top and that's mostly a diffusion process. A box fan running constantly would also be directionally correct.

 

[uppster]

I am in the flooring business. Yes the boards will go down but large boards like yours never will be flat again. They will need to be replaced. The correct way is replace the warped boards and have the entire unit sanded and refinished. If you try and match and it does not make you happy you have to go through the entire finishing project all over again. Wish you well.

 

[jkeyser14]

You are entitled to a repair to return the flooring to the exact condition it was in.

Because a patch won't match 100% you can fight and make them replace the entire floor. They will also likely damage baseboard and have to replace that as well as part of the process.

My parents just had a similar issue with their house. They got 100% new flooring, new baseboards, and repainted walls because pulling and reinstalling the baseboards left areas that the old paint didn't look perfect.

 

[59 wagon man]

you need to check your condo documents very carefully. i deal with this all the time as a licensed master plumber. the condo may only be responsible for the sheetrock and taping not the painting. you may have to file a claim against the unit owner directly and it may take yrs to resolve

 

[branimal]

I spoke with a 3 contractors and got some estimates.

1. The contractor that originally sanded and stained my floors in 2013 is being quite aggressive. He wants to rip out all the hardwood flooring, NOT just the damaged area. His rationale is hardwood floors can only be sanded down so many times. He made the point that I shouldn't take the loss of expected life of my floors for a leak caused by someone else. He wants to replace the subfloor in the damaged area. He thinks the subfloor is most likely compromised. Sand and stain the new hardwood. And Replace all the base moulding and repaint it. $16,000

2. Contractor gave me 2 quotes - one with furniture, one without. Both included replace damage floor, sand stain.

Without furniture: $4800
With Furniture: $6500

Not sure what he's doing with the furniture. I'll follow up.

3. Replace damaged area, Sand stain. $7500. Contractor does high end work. Doesn't really sound like he wants the job and he's giving it to one of his guys.


The problem I'll be facing is where are my tenants and their furniture going to go for the duration of the work - 3 days.

The apartment is a duplex. Damaged area downstairs is the living space. Kitchen, dining, living. It is possible to get movers to bring the furniture upstairs.

Perhaps the work can be scheduled for a week they are out of town. Not sure if they are comfortable with that. Having people in their space for 3 days while they are away.

Another option is to leave the damaged area as is, and fix it between tenants. I don't know if the insurance will just hand over a check. If insurance insists the damage be repaired now, then will they put my tenants up in a hotel for the duration of the work. That could get pricey.

Not sure if the tenants care about the damage so much. I need to take their temperature on the situation. Maybe they want a pristine apartment.

 

[Tduby]

I spoke with a 3 contractors and got some estimates.

1. The contractor that originally sanded and stained my floors in 2013 is being quite aggressive. He wants to rip out all the hardwood flooring, NOT just the damaged area. His rationale is hardwood floors can only be sanded down so many times. He made the point that I shouldn't take the loss of expected life of my floors for a leak caused by someone else. He wants to replace the subfloor in the damaged area. He thinks the subfloor is most likely compromised. Sand and stain the new hardwood. And Replace all the base moulding and repaint it. $16,000.

this was my first thought you can only sand so many times and you have already done it once. Guess it depends what the subfloor is but if plywood or solid boards I think it will be fine but that’s just me I don’t own what looks like a nice and I assume expensive condo in New York. I agree with others take it smooth and calm with the board but document everything and be prepared to go to the mattresses because everyone else is ready.

 

[Worsedog]

Update:

So the situation is a bit murkier than I thought. The leak was allegedly caused by a cracked horizontal drain pipe connected to a toilet's closet elbow. The toilet has a bad flapper as well. So the tank kept refilling all night and sent water into the waste pipe. The horizontal drain pipe is the building's responsibility, while the running toilet is the condo units responsibility. Not sure who is at fault. The condo board is trying to give the entire bill to the condo owner with the bad toilet. Over $11,000 for damage to three apartments. The condo owner called me last night to tell me her side of the story.

While I see the toilet being the obvious responsibility of the neighbor is was a faulty "building" pipe that caused the damage. If it had not been cracked there would have been no damage, regardless of how much/long the toilet ran. Making it the tenants responsibility would be like saying they were responsible because they used to much water washing dishes after a big party and a cracked "building" pipe leaked.

As far as the damage, only a solution that brings it back to the condition before the damage should be an acceptable solution. And that solution should not cost you or your tenants a penny. Some inconvenience is going to be unavoidable, but there should be nothing monetary.

 

[Docbentley]

As others said: File a claim with YOUR insurance company. Do not let any repair work begin before their approval.

 

[branimal]

Update...

Two of the contractors say they can sand and stain the entire floor with the furniture in the room. (Open living space with living room, dining room and kitchen). The plan is to move the furniture to one side. Sand, move furniture, sand, stain poly, move furniture, stain poly. Something like that.

The quotes are both in the 7000 range.

I suppose if the contractor runs masking tape along the length of a board they can get a transition that looks acceptable.

Only problem is the tenants will be out of the apartment for 4 days. That means room and board coverage.

I think the ideal solution is to get paid for the damage and fix it in the future between tenants.

Going to email the condo board today. Based on past experiences I'm expecting a lot of pushback.

 

[jkeyser14]

Do not have them sand and stain with furniture in the room. You will get a visible line and possibly slightly different coloring or sheen on the floor. At a minimum, demand the full floor be done at once. If it was me, I would demand a full floor replacement because refinishing will add VOCs to your house for a long time and will never be as good as a factory finish. They need to return your flooring to its original shape OR BETTER per the law. Stand your ground and make them do it right.

 

[dogdog]

Get a lawyer.

As others said: File a claim with YOUR insurance company. Do not let any repair work begin before their approval.

^^^ these advises.^^^^

Just been through this with the co-op on the FIL's place, you really don't want to do this yourself with the contractors... GET YOUR HOME OWNER INSURANCE approval and try to file it on your CONDO's INSURANCE not your own. Especially if this is a main pipe on the building. Don't do anything until the insurance companies agreed to pay up... how much would dependent on your insurance and how you word it.

Leaky water damage == MOLD in long term.


FIL and family was out of their apartment for 4 months.. Insurances paid for the rental, storage ... and movers.

 

[branimal]

^^^ these advises.^^^^

Just been through this with the co-op on the FIL's place, you really don't want to do this yourself with the contractors... GET YOUR HOME OWNER INSURANCE approval and try to file it on your CONDO's INSURANCE not your own. Especially if this is a main pipe on the building. Don't do anything until the insurance companies agreed to pay up... how much would dependent on your insurance and how you word it.

Leaky water damage == MOLD in long term.


FIL and family was out of their apartment for 4 months.. Insurances paid for the rental, storage ... and movers.

I talked to my insurance company's agent. They said I should file it with the condo's insurance b/c it was the fault of the buildings plumbing, not my plumbing. The insurance agent said filing it with my insurance would cause my rates to go up. I understand my insurance would attempt to get the building's insurance to pay.

I think as a first step, I'll see how the condo board reacts. If they resist, I will ask for their insurance companies information. And escalate from there.

 

[rlitman]

I spoke with a 3 contractors and got some estimates.

1. The contractor that originally sanded and stained my floors in 2013 is being quite aggressive. He wants to rip out all the hardwood flooring, NOT just the damaged area. His rationale is hardwood floors can only be sanded down so many times. He made the point that I shouldn't take the loss of expected life of my floors for a leak caused by someone else. He wants to replace the subfloor in the damaged area. He thinks the subfloor is most likely compromised. Sand and stain the new hardwood. And Replace all the base moulding and repaint it. $16,000...
Another option is to leave the damaged area as is, and fix it between tenants. I don't know if the insurance will just hand over a check. If insurance insists the damage be repaired now, then will they put my tenants up in a hotel for the duration of the work. That could get pricey...

First, I like your original contractor's idea. I doubt you can convince the insurance to pay for it, but it's worth a shot to present that argument to their adjuster.

Second, this is a SEWAGE flood. I would rip up as much as possible, and document the extents of the flood as soon as possible (yeah, I see that I'm replying to a dated thread).

To your question, insurance WILL just hand over a check. It's up to you to negotiate the repair cost with your contractor. However, that check will not be for everything. The insurance should also pay for loss of use. That may cover putting up your tenants in a hotel, which they will probably pay for directly. Alternatively, you could ask for "fair rental value", and get paid back the rent for the time that the space could not be occupied, which you could reimburse your tenants with if they choose to find their own lodgings. Additionally, your check may have deducted from it "recoverable depreciation".

My own familiarity with this is because I'm in the middle of a claim due to a sewage flood from a broken cast iron pipe (and doing quite well with it too). I ripped up the floating floor in rooms well beyond where the flood appeared above the floor and was able to show that the SEWAGE flowed further than expected. In the end, we replaced the entire floor's worth of flooring, and I would suggest you do the same.

Anyway, recoverable depreciation means that the check you get for your claim will be pro-rated based on the age of what was destroyed. However, it is recoverable, because if you can present a bill / reciepts that total up to more than your check, you can potentially recover up to that difference after repairs have been made. In my case, I was able to make my repairs for even less than the insurance check, pocketing the difference and never needing to recover more, but I also worked my *** off GC-ing the repair, only two years after completely renovating the space myself only two years ago. So I was also well positioned to make the repairs.

Next, was there any damage to personal property? If it's not nailed down, it's a different settlement, but may fall under the same claim. Did water damage a couch for example? In this case, if you are related to your tenants, or if the personal property was simply yours, it should be covered under your policy (do you have a "replacement cost" policy?) If the tenant's property suffered damage and they're not related to you, then they should have a renter's policy that covers it.

Oh, and that BS excuse about the toilet running is just that, BS. A running toilet should flow down the drain. The DRAIN failed. Period.

Do not have them sand and stain with furniture in the room. You will get a visible line and possibly slightly different coloring or sheen on the floor. At a minimum, demand the full floor be done at once. If it was me, I would demand a full floor replacement because refinishing will add VOCs to your house for a long time and will never be as good as a factory finish. They need to return your flooring to its original shape OR BETTER per the law. Stand your ground and make them do it right.

Once again, this was a SEWAGE leak. Remind the insurance of that at every chance you get.

 

[dogdog]

I talked to my insurance company's agent. They said I should file it with the condo's insurance b/c it was the fault of the buildings plumbing, not my plumbing. The insurance agent said filing it with my insurance would cause my rates to go up. I understand my insurance would attempt to get the building's insurance to pay.

I think as a first step, I'll see how the condo board reacts. If they resist, I will ask for their insurance companies information. And escalate from there.

Either case, don't do anything other than getting quotes for your estimates and negotiating price... Don't forget the moving cost, the labor, the temporary housing and other what nots involved. This is the reason I hate condos/ co-ops.

I think they rented 3 large storage unit (it's really small compare to away from the City) from the Manhattan storage about $1200 / month for 3x units, Brooklyn would be cheaper. ... in order to fit, but we moved our selves, since I don't trust too many people. Movers charged $2000 each way ymmv of cause.

anyways you should factor all those to get an idea.. It's PITA, no body wins but if you don't do due diligent, you lose.

So they should have a proper Air/MOLD sampling done ... all affected wall' floor should go and have it replaced/ remediated with a certificate back... ( I think that was how it was worded, don't remember)

Keep in mind, if you waiver off this any future mold developed because of this flood, you can't claim.

 

[59 wagon man]

depending on the insurance company they check can be in your name , mortgage company and attorney if you get one. also if you do get a check make the repairs right away. just had a customer with a kitchen pipe leaking in the wall so the cabinets and wall ahd to come out for repairs. cabinets fell apart called insurance and she got a public adjuster to help deal with the ins company. Ins company asked for receipts from kitchen claim made 10 yrs ago when she received money for cabinets. never replaced the cabinets so new claim was denied

 

[ford33]

OP when you say tenants will be out of the property for 4 days and that means room and board coverage, what do you mean?

My tenants must have renters insurance so the tenants insurance would cover their 4 day stay in a hotel or some other place. I don't cover their cost. If they let their renters insurance lapse the total cost is on them.

Also, in my leases, I have a statement that the lease remains in effect for x days while a property is restored. Beyond X days the lease can end and tenants are free to leave. This keeps both sides engaged during the restoration and puts an end date on getting them back into the property or out of it. You should have a similar section in your leases.

Finally, OP you control this property. Why are you letting others determine how this is fixed? You are willing to hand over control of an expensive asset to a third party that does not have your interest the same as their interest.

The idea that your insurance rates will go up is not a factor in determining how the property is restored. IF the rates do go up, find another insurance company. The rate increase will not be anywhere near the $16,000+ of the repair costs mentioned. I've had insurance restorations of $40,000 due to water damage and never had any issue with insurance rates or finding insurance. Water damage in residential property is a frequent occurrence and is routinely paid out by property insurance companies. After this is fixed, fire your insurance agent. For the agent to say let the condo HOA handle this is nonsense. Your agent is a bottom feeder looking to make a yearly commission on your policy and nothing more. I hope this turns out well for you.

 

[jhelrey]

I had new hardwood floors installed in my kitchen to match the rest of the house. One of the boards had a nail pop which means the board splits. They came back and replaced some of them, re sanded the kitchen, and stained/cleared.

With that said, I agree with ripping it all out and replacing all of it. You'll have gaps from the wood shrinking at different rates, no tongue/grove in spots, etc. Trust me on this.

 

[branimal]

Do not have them sand and stain with furniture in the room. You will get a visible line and possibly slightly different coloring or sheen on the floor. At a minimum, demand the full floor be done at once. If it was me, I would demand a full floor replacement because refinishing will add VOCs to your house for a long time and will never be as good as a factory finish. They need to return your flooring to its original shape OR BETTER per the law. Stand your ground and make them do it right.

If the contractor stains with furniture in the room and halfway point of where they stain is parallel to the long edges of the boards, can they get a decent color/sheen match? Red line in the picture clarifies what i'm trying to say.

The floor is not at factory finish. I had the entire floor sanded and stained in 2013. 7 years ago. Not sure how many times prior it was sanded and stained, possibly once.

Thanks for the push to stand my ground and not take cr*p from the condo board. I feel I'm going to be in for a fight.

Realistically, I think they are going to balk at a complete tear out of the entire floor.

 

[branimal]

First, I like your original contractor's idea. I doubt you can convince the insurance to pay for it, but it's worth a shot to present that argument to their adjuster.

Second, this is a SEWAGE flood. I would rip up as much as possible, and document the extents of the flood as soon as possible (yeah, I see that I'm replying to a dated thread).

To your question, insurance WILL just hand over a check. It's up to you to negotiate the repair cost with your contractor. However, that check will not be for everything. The insurance should also pay for loss of use. That may cover putting up your tenants in a hotel, which they will probably pay for directly. Alternatively, you could ask for "fair rental value", and get paid back the rent for the time that the space could not be occupied, which you could reimburse your tenants with if they choose to find their own lodgings. Additionally, your check may have deducted from it "recoverable depreciation".

My own familiarity with this is because I'm in the middle of a claim due to a sewage flood from a broken cast iron pipe (and doing quite well with it too). I ripped up the floating floor in rooms well beyond where the flood appeared above the floor and was able to show that the SEWAGE flowed further than expected. In the end, we replaced the entire floor's worth of flooring, and I would suggest you do the same.

Anyway, recoverable depreciation means that the check you get for your claim will be pro-rated based on the age of what was destroyed. However, it is recoverable, because if you can present a bill / reciepts that total up to more than your check, you can potentially recover up to that difference after repairs have been made. In my case, I was able to make my repairs for even less than the insurance check, pocketing the difference and never needing to recover more, but I also worked my *** off GC-ing the repair, only two years after completely renovating the space myself only two years ago. So I was also well positioned to make the repairs.

Next, was there any damage to personal property? If it's not nailed down, it's a different settlement, but may fall under the same claim. Did water damage a couch for example? In this case, if you are related to your tenants, or if the personal property was simply yours, it should be covered under your policy (do you have a "replacement cost" policy?) If the tenant's property suffered damage and they're not related to you, then they should have a renter's policy that covers it.

Oh, and that BS excuse about the toilet running is just that, BS. A running toilet should flow down the drain. The DRAIN failed. Period.




Once again, this was a SEWAGE leak. Remind the insurance of that at every chance you get.

No personal property was damaged. Thankfully just the floors and drywall. The drywall was removed, replaced and painted to match. That job came out pretty good.

Good point on recoverable depreciation. Went through that once and fortunately I was only out of pocket 3% or so on the total job cost.

The solution that works best for me are the floors are repaired between leases. I get paid today for work that will be done in the future. The contractor won't have to deal with furniture so the actual job cost might be lower. And putting the tenants in a hotel and paying for their meals in downtown Manhattan could be pricey. So insurance might prefer cutting me a check.

If I end up doing it between leases, I will ask for loss of rent based on the number of days the contractors are estimating for the work to be completed and move in ready. Job time, dry time, VOC evaporation time. At that point I can come in and make any necessary repairs. Clean paint, etc.

Yeah it is total BS the condo board is trying to blame this on the unit owner with the leaky toilet. Basically every time that toilet in question was flushed sewage was making it's way into the innards of the building.

 

[branimal]

OP when you say tenants will be out of the property for 4 days and that means room and board coverage, what do you mean?

My tenants must have renters insurance so the tenants insurance would cover their 4 day stay in a hotel or some other place. I don't cover their cost. If they let their renters insurance lapse the total cost is on them.

Also, in my leases, I have a statement that the lease remains in effect for x days while a property is restored. Beyond X days the lease can end and tenants are free to leave. This keeps both sides engaged during the restoration and puts an end date on getting them back into the property or out of it. You should have a similar section in your leases.

Finally, OP you control this property. Why are you letting others determine how this is fixed? You are willing to hand over control of an expensive asset to a third party that does not have your interest the same as their interest.

The idea that your insurance rates will go up is not a factor in determining how the property is restored. IF the rates do go up, find another insurance company. The rate increase will not be anywhere near the $16,000+ of the repair costs mentioned. I've had insurance restorations of $40,000 due to water damage and never had any issue with insurance rates or finding insurance. Water damage in residential property is a frequent occurrence and is routinely paid out by property insurance companies. After this is fixed, fire your insurance agent. For the agent to say let the condo HOA handle this is nonsense. Your agent is a bottom feeder looking to make a yearly commission on your policy and nothing more. I hope this turns out well for you.

I think the condo's insurance policy should cover the cost of room and board. Why should the tenant's invoke their policy for a situation that wasn't caused by them? I don't know the answer to that, just thinking out loud.

Yeah, I agree that my insurance agent was less than helpful - telling me to deal with the condo board directly.

I will include move in / move out costs of furniture, if the repair is to be done today as opposed to some date in the future.

 

[rlitman]

...I will include move in / move out costs of furniture, if the repair is to be done today as opposed to some date in the future.

And storage. For my flood, I had a remediation company do the demolition, cleanup, packing, storage and "move in", and that was settled directly between them and my insurance.

 

[Jasburrito]

Something very similar happened to a buddy. He used his insurance. Got estimates from professional builders. Ended up with money in his pocket. He made out great.

 

[dogdog]

I think the condo's insurance policy should cover the cost of room and board. Why should the tenant's invoke their policy for a situation that wasn't caused by them? I don't know the answer to that, just thinking out loud.

Yeah, I agree that my insurance agent was less than helpful - telling me to deal with the condo board directly.

I will include move in / move out costs of furniture, if the repair is to be done today as opposed to some date in the future.

LOL he is just being frank with you... except for the scare tactic about insurance cost will increase for you...part.. which is also true about the increase but a scare tactic. for sure. That is what renter's insurances are for. just in case someone / something snafu. I wouldn't be hesitate to claim against it for the remaining things that the building insurance doesn't cover...

The others are right... your renter are suppose to be buying those... and if they don't have it, tough kinda deal.

 

[gnpenning]

Just a thought, would you want to be walking across a floor barefoot or stocking foot daily that has been soaked with sewage??? Are you sure this won't be a long term concern for your renters?? Do they have infants or kids crawling around on the floor?


I think it's in yours and your renters best interest to get it fixed quickly. The short term pain will be worth the long term peace of mind for me.


The condo association shouldn't have a right to say what insurance pays for. They are trying to keep their premiums for raising at others expense, YOURS.

Your insurance agent should have a interest in what is going on and how it's resolved, after all they are insuring it. I'm in the process of firing my check collecting only agent.

Good luck in what ever you decide.

 

[johnnyradiant]

A sewage flood handled by restoration companies here means they come in an cut the bottom **" of dryall in all effected areas, remove all flooring in all effected areas and anything else in contact with the sewage water. Everything is dried out and treated and new drywall and floor is placed and the rest of the finishing steps to get it back to before. Often times putting up tenants is not your responsibility, it is one of the reasons that tenants should be carrying their own insurance. If they were to sue you for being put out for this it would be on your insurance company and the can would get kicked back to the strata that may try kicking it back to the flapper valve. That would be a typical chain if you are not required to put them up by law in your area. As well you can't typically charge rent for the portion of time it can't be occupied. And frequently a standard practice is to put the tenants up for 3-4 days if they don't have their own insurance while they get a chance to get their bearings on their new situation.

Even a little sewage water trap under a floor or in a wall can lead to some very unhealthy environment.

The building failed to provide a proper functioning drain pipe. They can quibble over minute details all they want. It is their failed pipe that caused your damage they need to step up and if they really need to quibble with the other unit that should not have any bearing on you getting that sewage flood properly remediated and restored.

I would at a minimum the warped boards replaced and a full sand and finish (if it was a potable water flood, not a sewage flood). If they want to shift furniture while working that's on them but I'd want to ensure they did not get it full of dust and come stain and finish time I'd insist on it being all done at once as a whole.

Get your insurance involved and get at least a professional restoration assessment. That's different from a contractor's assessment, even if the contractor is more capable of getting a better finished product down they don't necessarily no how to get the sewage flood part dealt with.

When you have a restoration company or contractor working a job for a strata on an insurance claim your three steps out of the drivers seat despite what they say before hand about being there to get you all fixed up good as new. They know once the contract is signed their money comes from the insurance company and often times they are not going to care enough for you, not their client, to ensure the details are dealt with. At least if you have your insurance company along side you may have a little more pull and at least they know what's going on from the get go in case you need to turn to your own insurance company for some sort of claim.

 

[jkeyser14]

If the contractor stains with furniture in the room and halfway point of where they stain is parallel to the long edges of the boards, can they get a decent color/sheen match? Red line in the picture clarifies what i'm trying to say.

The floor is not at factory finish. I had the entire floor sanded and stained in 2013. 7 years ago. Not sure how many times prior it was sanded and stained, possibly once.

Thanks for the push to stand my ground and not take cr*p from the condo board. I feel I'm going to be in for a fight.

Realistically, I think they are going to balk at a complete tear out of the entire floor.

No, it will never match perfectly, no matter what. Evwn if they get the exact same stain the old stain will have been oxidized from years of light, so you will be able to see a difference.

 

[branimal]

I emailed the condo board two estimates to rip out the damaged flooring, sand and stain the entire area (about 750 sq ft). Cost is $7000 from both contractors. These quotes stipulate the furniture would be in the apartment while the work is being done. One side of the room is sanded stained. Then the other side.

The condo board approved the repair. They asked that I pay the contractor up front and forward the bill once the work is completed. Not sure what kind of obstacles I'll face getting reimbursed.

The condo board suggested four options for how to accommodate the tenants.

1. Work is done when the tenants are out of town. (Thanksgiving or Christmas).
2. The apartment is a duplex. The condo's contractors can wall off the two areas with sheetrock and plastic. This is a non-starter. The kitchen and living space is in the damaged area. What a comical offer.
3. Use my insurance to cover the tenants housing. Basically they are transferring their eventual premium up-charge to me.
4. Have my renters use their renters insurance. My tenants have renters insurance. This is also a non-starter because its also a transfer of costs. In a NYC rental market that's abysmal I don't want pissed off tenants. I like my tenants and would like them to renew again. I've got a renewal coming up in half a year.

I'm going to push the condo board to use their insurance to accommodate my tenants.

 

[nadogail]

Today is my first re-read of this thread since my post of 10-20-20.

IMHO, your condo association, if like mine, is responsible for piping in the walls that are concealed.

I agree that you are responsible for providing shelter for your tenants during repairs, but not feeding them. They rent space from you, not dining room service.

The Condo Board IMHO is not looking out for you, they are trying to keep their anticipated future costs down. Insist that they first make a claim against the HOA Insurance, and if appropriate the HOA Insurance company can seek subrogation against your insurance.

I am neither an Insurance, Legal or Real Estate Professional.eAny advice and guidance you take from me is guaranteed to be worth exactly what you are paying me for it.
I have just been called away from my desk.

 

[nadogail]

If you file a claim to your insurance company, I am sure they will make a claim against the Condo Associations Insurance Carrier. That seems to be the way Insurance Companies do things. They first seek to push the liability off to someone else, and then pay only what they have to pay.

After all, insurance companies are not charitable organizations, they are seeking to make a return on the money they hold in reserves.

An aggressive attorney can be a good asset to have on your side.

 

[MoonRise]

IMNSHO,

Condo board is trying to screw you.

The 'damage' was from the leaking CONDO drain pipe. Toilet or sink or whatever in someone's dwelling had NOTHING to do with the LEAKING PIPE.

Next, the leaking pipe was leaking SEWAGE, not 'clean' water.

ALL the damage and the required fixing is the RESPONSIBILTY of the Condo Board. That includes moving and storage fees for the tenants belongings and temp housing (hotel) for the tenants while the repairs are PROPERLY done.

The sewage-soaked oak flooring MUST be removed and replaced. The subfloor MUST be inspected after the hardwood flooring is removed and must be at a MINIMUM "disinfected" for mold and sewage contamination. Replacement may or may not be needed on the subfloor.

NO-NO-NO on the attempted half-*** sand-and-refinish the flooring in stages. You WILL have a visible line where they stopped and the varnish will NOT 'seal' at that seam. If they overlap the varnish from Side-A to Side-B, then there WILL be a visible overlap.

ALL the sewage soaked hardwood NEEDS to be removed. Then the entire floor NEEDS to be sanded and refinished as ONE 'unit'. No half-assed sand part of it and then sand another part.

Everything (furniture) needs to come out of the unit so that the flooring can be PROPERLY removed and replaced and refinished.

Tenants will need to be relocated during the work.

A water-based floor poly dries pretty fast and puts out less VOC than an oil-based finish (which would NEED different ventilation requirements, including the flammability and odor restrictions). A good floor refinishing contractor can get the varnish applied in maybe 1-2 days with a water-based poly instead of multiple days with an oil-based poly. It's still a multi-day operation to do it RIGHT. Application time, drying time, scuff and clean time, making sure to meet the product's application and recoat time windows, etc. Final 'dry' time before tenants can even move back in, and then the 'cure' time before the floor can bear more than very light 'clean sock' foot traffic. etc.

Condo board asking YOU to pay up-front to whatever contractor? NOPE! They will screw you even more with that action (or inaction on their part of eventually maybe getting around to reimbursing you). The repair bill goes right to the condo board and paid right by them (or their insurance). You do NOT pay anyone and then have to go through the attempt of getting the board to eventually 'repay' you. (and not even getting into any possible 'games' they might try and play, like stalling on the payout for MONTHS and then offering to 'settle' at maybe 50% of the costs that you already paid to the contractors).

They (or their insurance) pay ALL costs to properly FIX things. You pay NOTHING.

It's all fixable. But not half-assing the repair or them wanting you to pay up front to get it fixed and then trying to get reimbursed from them (or their insurance).

 

[KenC]

IMO, even at the risk of future premium increases (unlikely, but) your insurance company should be the first stop. They will most assuredly contact the other parties involved and work out a plan that minimizes their cost, and thus moves the responsibility from them and, by extension, from you.

Insurance company legal departments are expert at these negotiations. Let them do their job.

 

[branimal]

Hey guys.... been procrastinating dealing with this for a week and then it was turkey day. But I've got to deal with it.

I got a follow up email from the condo board today. Basically they are trying to put this on the leaker flapper valve's unit owner's insurance. What a dirty move.

Anywho, I'm going to ask for "the insurance company's contact info" - (could be the unit owners or the condo boards.) At this point I just want to be made whole.

Some great advice on here. Thanks again. Will post a follow up. I'm sure the board will tell me they are better equipped to handle this situation than I am.