Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
- Start date
zeug
Well-known member
Wera Kraftform Hex Plus Ball Drivers
Most of the newer bicycle derailleurs are using hex instead of phillips for adjustments these days. I have a set of Jessel JIS screwdrivers which have worked well for the older stuff but wanted a screw driver style for adjusting the hex screws. The adjustments are very low torque. Decided to give the Wera Kraftform Hex Plus Ball Drivers a shot.
KC tool had good prices, but their set skipped the smaller sizes and went up to 8mm. I just can't see using a screwdriver hex that large. So I created my own set from 1.5 to 5mm.
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Most of the newer bicycle derailleurs are using hex instead of phillips for adjustments these days. I have a set of Jessel JIS screwdrivers which have worked well for the older stuff but wanted a screw driver style for adjusting the hex screws. The adjustments are very low torque. Decided to give the Wera Kraftform Hex Plus Ball Drivers a shot.
KC tool had good prices, but their set skipped the smaller sizes and went up to 8mm. I just can't see using a screwdriver hex that large. So I created my own set from 1.5 to 5mm.
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Re: Wera Kraftform Hex Plus Ball Drivers
You cant go wrong with Wera, or its the end of the german era.
A little poem for your day.
You cant go wrong with Wera, or its the end of the german era.
A little poem for your day.
Bought a 10mm a while ago and have been trying it. Really like the deep offset. Find it helpful more times than not. Nice to have clearance for my knuckles.
May try the offset ring spanners. Five offset ring spanners, covering 10-19mm is less than 15 Euro.
Anyone found any other good deals from motointegrator worth adding on to an order, other than the long Toptul spanner set?
I bought from Motointegrator a full range of Toptul tools for my second workshop and they have yet to fail me, even the hex sockets or the breaker bars.
Some suggestions from my side as they are cheap as chips and good quality:
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/884617-stecknusssatz-toptul-14-38-12-6-kant-37-stuck
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/880733-stecknusssatz-toptul-14-38-12-6-kant-37-stuck
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/899429-schlag-stecksnuss-satz-toptul-12-10-stk10-11-12-13-14-17-19-21-22-24-mm-lang
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/865368-6-kant-schlag-stecknuss-satz-toptul-12-4-5-6-8-10-12-mm
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/845264-torx-schlag-stecknuss-satz-toptul-12-t30-t40-t45-t50-t55-t60-t70
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/879068-schrauben-und-maulschlusselsatz-toptul-7stk-10-11-12-13-14-17-19mm-extra-lang
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/900457-drehgriff-toptul-12-laenge-762mm
--> Used constantly on 400+ Nm; head is fixed by a screw and can be tightened again.
I would not recommend their ratchets. Ancient mechanism that does not satisfy during work in confined spaces.
Recently, I was in the flea market and was surprised to find an old tester. I was shocked that the thing of such times is still working and in excellent condition. They knew how to do reliable things in the Soviet Union before. See the year of release in the photo for yourself. It's a real rant.
Attachments
Cool, some brands I haven’t seen before. 'Finnish made Billnäs' very interesting + nice looking trolley.
Thanks for the recomendations. Some of the Toptul prices on motointegrator are less than the cheapest Chinese tools. Cheaper than US Pro at the autojumble/flea market.
Yes, it's a bit odd that a lot of Toptul's ratchets are low tooth count. This one is a new release and it's 24 tooth. Strange choice when other brands seam to be pushing for 90+ teeth. Unless they are going for low back drag, but they are not advertised as such.
Just found out that it's a very easy process to buy spare parts from Bosch, even for discontinued tools. Maybe the same with most brands.
Enter product number of tool here
https://www.boschtoolservice.com/gb/en/boschdiy/spareparts/search
Pick the part from a nice diagram. Pay more than you'd like to and wait two days to get the part.
Drill/drivers are very simple so 2 mins to fit the new part.
Enter product number of tool here
https://www.boschtoolservice.com/gb/en/boschdiy/spareparts/search
Pick the part from a nice diagram. Pay more than you'd like to and wait two days to get the part.
Drill/drivers are very simple so 2 mins to fit the new part.
Cool, some brands I haven’t seen before. 'Finnish made Billnäs' very interesting + nice looking trolley.
Thanks for the recomendations. Some of the Toptul prices on motointegrator are less than the cheapest Chinese tools. Cheaper than US Pro at the autojumble/flea market.
Yes, it's a bit odd that a lot of Toptul's ratchets are low tooth count. This one is a new release and it's 24 tooth. Strange choice when other brands seam to be pushing for 90+ teeth. Unless they are going for low back drag, but they are not advertised as such.
TOPTUL also do higher tooth count ratchets for example the flex head ratchets are 72 tooth...
https://www.toptul.com/en/product-325240/Flexible-Reversible-Ratchet-Handle-with-Quick-Release.html
And yes the TOPTUL prices on motointegrator are very very good I started buying everything I need from them you simply can't find cheaper anywhere...
And the all metal ratchets are 72 tooth also
https://www.toptul.com/en/product-520655/Reversible-Ratchet-Handle-with-Quick-Release.html
In this week of American redemption...some tools from other places.
Part 1: Amazon.de (manual) and .com (power)
Hazet Santastools 2000 set. This set is the first ‘advent calendar’ I’ve purchased, and that solely for the Hazet-branded "Rolplast" (Rolgear mechanism, made under license by Oplast in Slovenia) clutch screwdriver with bit storage.
The kit also comes with one of those bottle openers some people like but aren’t my thing, and some credit to their German “fan shop.”
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The screwdriver is pretty nice. Bit retention is magnetic and mechanical. Annoyingly, as on the new Felo you can’t just push the bit in and have the mechanical part lock in. You have to manipulate the ring first. I like the stubby bit-holder + extension concept better than the long shaft on Gedore’s rebrand of this screwdriver I have seen in pictures. Honestly the clutch doesn’t fare any better with loose screws than the PB Swiss or Felo ratchets do.
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The 3-wide bit storage makes for a thick handle, but it’s not terrible. With a few others, for a handle thickness comparison. IMO PB Swiss has the most efficient bit storage per thickness. If Wiha added a ratchet to UltraDriver - why haven't they ?!? - they would win.
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I suspect neither the bits nor the L-keys are German, given that the bottle opener is stamped as such but the other parts are only stamped Hazet. Germans stamp their L-keys. Screwdriver itself is presumably Slovenian.
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The US price of this set is truly absurd highway robbery (to be clear, I blame the importer not the retailers), and frankly even the German price of ~60EUR is a too much for what you get. At the US price the top of the case should be kitted out with 1/4” drive real Hazet sockets, not outsourced L-keys.
Other amazon.de/amazon.com purchases: Knipex pouch set, “Gedore” Rolgear x Olplast clutch screwdriver, Wera VDE set.
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Neither Cobra nor PW are a mystery to anyone here. I didn’t realize it at order, but this set is actually different from the one I bought from KC Tool. The PW is the same, but the Cobra is smaller and the pouch is actually smaller too. I meant to get the same one, so the kids’ toolboxes would have the same stuff. Oops!
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Gedore “Rolplast” (Rolgear design, made under license by Oplast) clutch screwdriver. I’ve seen a version with the same handle as Hazet Santastools but a longer shaft pictured, but not available for purchase from a vender who ships to the US. That one also seems inordinately long. Hazet's Rolplast with bit storage is is better. Seems pretty nice, though I still like PB Swiss and Felo ratchets better so far. Gedore is open about the origins on the shaft.
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Wera swappable shaft slim VDE set
I picked up the Wera set because it was cheaper than I expected, and I figured it could replace a set of Wiha VDE screwdrivers with similar utility but lower weight. They are as expected, which is to say no complaints after brief use. I’ll replace the useless voltage tester with a second handle, and add square drive shafts.
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All but the smallest slotted are the thin shaft/flush insulation.
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Bosch brushless 12V Flexiclick and drill/bit case.
I bought this primarily to add a hole to a cabinet for a power wire grommet. My Fein 18V drill was too big and had too much nose to get the hole near the back.
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So far I like the drill, but the case is disappointing in one respect - normal bits don’t fit well. I was planning on replacing Bosch insert bits with Felo slotted/PH/torx and Wera hex/square/ASSY (keeping only the “P2R2” bit, which combines PH2 and SQ2, so should fit combi screw heads better in theory), but normal bits don’t fit in Bosch’s bit racks fell. Power bits fit OK.
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Knipex Cobolt (spring-loaded + gap jaw)
I wanted a second Cobolt (IMO this is the best configuration of the tool, so I didn’t see the need to try a lesser variant), so I bought this one. Again, nothing unfamiliar to most of you. Just a useful, solid tool. If Knipex were just Pliers Wrench, Cobra, Cobolt, and Crimp System they would probably still be one of the world’s best tool companies.
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Part 1: Amazon.de (manual) and .com (power)
Hazet Santastools 2000 set. This set is the first ‘advent calendar’ I’ve purchased, and that solely for the Hazet-branded "Rolplast" (Rolgear mechanism, made under license by Oplast in Slovenia) clutch screwdriver with bit storage.
The kit also comes with one of those bottle openers some people like but aren’t my thing, and some credit to their German “fan shop.”
View media item 107668View media item 107672View media item 107673
The screwdriver is pretty nice. Bit retention is magnetic and mechanical. Annoyingly, as on the new Felo you can’t just push the bit in and have the mechanical part lock in. You have to manipulate the ring first. I like the stubby bit-holder + extension concept better than the long shaft on Gedore’s rebrand of this screwdriver I have seen in pictures. Honestly the clutch doesn’t fare any better with loose screws than the PB Swiss or Felo ratchets do.
View media item 107669
The 3-wide bit storage makes for a thick handle, but it’s not terrible. With a few others, for a handle thickness comparison. IMO PB Swiss has the most efficient bit storage per thickness. If Wiha added a ratchet to UltraDriver - why haven't they ?!? - they would win.
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I suspect neither the bits nor the L-keys are German, given that the bottle opener is stamped as such but the other parts are only stamped Hazet. Germans stamp their L-keys. Screwdriver itself is presumably Slovenian.
View media item 107671
The US price of this set is truly absurd highway robbery (to be clear, I blame the importer not the retailers), and frankly even the German price of ~60EUR is a too much for what you get. At the US price the top of the case should be kitted out with 1/4” drive real Hazet sockets, not outsourced L-keys.
Other amazon.de/amazon.com purchases: Knipex pouch set, “Gedore” Rolgear x Olplast clutch screwdriver, Wera VDE set.
View media item 107657
Neither Cobra nor PW are a mystery to anyone here. I didn’t realize it at order, but this set is actually different from the one I bought from KC Tool. The PW is the same, but the Cobra is smaller and the pouch is actually smaller too. I meant to get the same one, so the kids’ toolboxes would have the same stuff. Oops!
View media item 107665
View media item 107664
Gedore “Rolplast” (Rolgear design, made under license by Oplast) clutch screwdriver. I’ve seen a version with the same handle as Hazet Santastools but a longer shaft pictured, but not available for purchase from a vender who ships to the US. That one also seems inordinately long. Hazet's Rolplast with bit storage is is better. Seems pretty nice, though I still like PB Swiss and Felo ratchets better so far. Gedore is open about the origins on the shaft.
View media item 107658
Wera swappable shaft slim VDE set
I picked up the Wera set because it was cheaper than I expected, and I figured it could replace a set of Wiha VDE screwdrivers with similar utility but lower weight. They are as expected, which is to say no complaints after brief use. I’ll replace the useless voltage tester with a second handle, and add square drive shafts.
View media item 107660
All but the smallest slotted are the thin shaft/flush insulation.
View media item 107659
Bosch brushless 12V Flexiclick and drill/bit case.
I bought this primarily to add a hole to a cabinet for a power wire grommet. My Fein 18V drill was too big and had too much nose to get the hole near the back.
View media item 107662
View media item 107663
So far I like the drill, but the case is disappointing in one respect - normal bits don’t fit well. I was planning on replacing Bosch insert bits with Felo slotted/PH/torx and Wera hex/square/ASSY (keeping only the “P2R2” bit, which combines PH2 and SQ2, so should fit combi screw heads better in theory), but normal bits don’t fit in Bosch’s bit racks fell. Power bits fit OK.
View media item 107661
Knipex Cobolt (spring-loaded + gap jaw)
I wanted a second Cobolt (IMO this is the best configuration of the tool, so I didn’t see the need to try a lesser variant), so I bought this one. Again, nothing unfamiliar to most of you. Just a useful, solid tool. If Knipex were just Pliers Wrench, Cobra, Cobolt, and Crimp System they would probably still be one of the world’s best tool companies.
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USAG/Facom from MisterWorker
Facom roto bit ratchet, USAG “RBRT” hex bits with 1/4” drive socket adapter, (yet another) “pico” bit set with locking bit ratchet and extension, (a couple more) 11mm outer hex locking flex ratchets (to stick in those super-useful Würth pass-through socket + low-profile bit boxes), 2.5mm slotted USAG jeweler's screwdriver to go with a set of Phliips I picked up.
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RBRT bit pouch. This seems to be the most practical set of all the SBD subsidiary RBRT bit offerings, even if the embroidery isn't exactly worthy of Mariano Rubinacci.
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Facom rotator-handle bit ratchet. Why rotator bit ratchet? This is a useful tool when you're trying to work a screw in near something rubber or foam, and don't want to risk a slip-and-puncture.
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This tool is more interesting in design than I thought. It’s actually a 1-way ratchet. The bit goes in both ends, so you can turn both ways. Bit retention is by clips on both sides. There is a floating bit stopper, which is (somewhat surprisingly) not magnetic. There are concentric gear-sets, that work differently when you use as a rotator vs a ratchet.
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It was very well lubricated, and feels considerably smoother than my Facom rotator ratchet.
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So far I've used it a few times, and I'm impressed. I don't know if it would work well in wood - I've only used it with screws in T-nuts or threaded inserts - but I will get a lot of use out of this little thing.
Facom roto bit ratchet, USAG “RBRT” hex bits with 1/4” drive socket adapter, (yet another) “pico” bit set with locking bit ratchet and extension, (a couple more) 11mm outer hex locking flex ratchets (to stick in those super-useful Würth pass-through socket + low-profile bit boxes), 2.5mm slotted USAG jeweler's screwdriver to go with a set of Phliips I picked up.
View media item 107802
RBRT bit pouch. This seems to be the most practical set of all the SBD subsidiary RBRT bit offerings, even if the embroidery isn't exactly worthy of Mariano Rubinacci.
View media item 107803
Facom rotator-handle bit ratchet. Why rotator bit ratchet? This is a useful tool when you're trying to work a screw in near something rubber or foam, and don't want to risk a slip-and-puncture.
View media item 107804
This tool is more interesting in design than I thought. It’s actually a 1-way ratchet. The bit goes in both ends, so you can turn both ways. Bit retention is by clips on both sides. There is a floating bit stopper, which is (somewhat surprisingly) not magnetic. There are concentric gear-sets, that work differently when you use as a rotator vs a ratchet.
View media item 107804View media item 107805View media item 107807
It was very well lubricated, and feels considerably smoother than my Facom rotator ratchet.
View media item 107806
So far I've used it a few times, and I'm impressed. I don't know if it would work well in wood - I've only used it with screws in T-nuts or threaded inserts - but I will get a lot of use out of this little thing.
Looks like quite a bit goes on at Rotec B.V.
Supplier of cutting tools, manufacturer of composite pipe and fittings, engineering company specializing in advanced robotics and developing robotic fuelling systems, custom-made high-quality metal products for the industrial and private sector, sheet metal constructions and machine construction.
Hopefully Rotec have honourable plans for Athlet.
FACOM OGV® GRIP Extractors
Not sure if the alignment colar really does anything helpfull.
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+ nice posts and impressive haul JBH
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I don't find purchasing from Amazon.de worthwhile anymore. When I look back at my purchases between 2012-2019. Shipping cost compared to the exact same item shipped now was about 1/3rd, (so 10 euro instead of say 30 euro), and the costs of the exact same items have increased substantially too. Items like wrenches, axes, sockets, etc.
I guess Amazon just caught onto the fact they were undercharging for shipping?
I guess Amazon just caught onto the fact they were undercharging for shipping?
mobiledynamics
Well-known member
Yes on Amazon shipping. They are charging higher prices across the board AND also are tacking on import fees. I have found the same stuff on Amazon US - aka, the seller is Amazon Global. When comparing to de., etc direct, sometimes it's the same. sometimes it's cheaper to order off Amazon US - seller Amazon Global. Shipping/Import fees tacked on are not consistent.
Generally agreed. Air cargo and even domestic shipping rates have skyrocketed since the pandemic. Air has been hit hardest, because nobody’s flying.
But sometimes the base price of an item is under 60 euros there and 180-200 USD here. So 40 EUR for shipping is still a better deal.
mobiledynamics
Well-known member
JBH or others....
Does anyone know if the observed changes are post pandemic or were they there before ? I did not have any recent orders before the pandemic....but sure did a eye opener when I was not only seeing higher shipping rates but also the line itemization for the import duty fees as well.
Shipping rate IMO is okay, for what is is. The add on of duty fees on all sites (us, de, uk, etc) is the deal killer
Does anyone know if the observed changes are post pandemic or were they there before ? I did not have any recent orders before the pandemic....but sure did a eye opener when I was not only seeing higher shipping rates but also the line itemization for the import duty fees as well.
Shipping rate IMO is okay, for what is is. The add on of duty fees on all sites (us, de, uk, etc) is the deal killer
My last order (placed early Oct) did not have an import duty line. I expect that a result of the WTO judgment against the EU and Airbus, which allowed certain countervailing duties. (There is a second set of tax increases coming, this time on EU residents, as the WTO has also issued judgment against us for subsidizing Boeing.) Note this is a different situation from the putrid orange loser claiming that our allies violate “national security” in some BS way and using that to raise taxes on Americans by fiat. These tax increases went into effect sometime in October.
However, I agree that this tax increase puts an unfortunate damper on commerce. I suspect we’ll see the impact of these tax increases on Stateside retailers such as KC Tool as well as Amazon, etc.
zeug
Well-known member
If I remember correctly, in previous purchases, I was refunded the full VAT on my Amazon.de orders. Now it seems that I am still refunded the full VAT with the lower item line price, but then charged 8.25% in the final check out. Sorry that I use the German language version. Verpackung & Versand = Packaging and shipping. Steuer = Tax.
No where is an import duty listed. My assumption was that this 8.25% tax is Amazon charging US/Colorado tax in the same manner they charge on out of state orders within the US now.
I now have to do a better job at comparison shopping between the US stores and Amazonn.de. In this case, the three Wera torque wrenches and Hazet wheel sockets were still over $230 cheaper than if I ordered in the US.
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I also ordered some Wera L-Keys in SAE. This time it was cheaper to get them from KC Tool on sale. I have had the metric version for a while and like the performance of the Hex Plus profile.
I was hoping to get the same holder as the metric ones. It is smaller and holds the tools well. Unfortunately Wera decided to put the SAE versions only in a cordura envelope which is much larger and doesn't match the metric. Perhaps they were hoping to avoid confusing the two standards. I believe a simple color change on the case would have been better. Maybe Ill look for an empty metric case..
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Maybe- Wera's nice, but twice the price!
And I believe these German drivers are made in the Czech Republic?
No where is an import duty listed. My assumption was that this 8.25% tax is Amazon charging US/Colorado tax in the same manner they charge on out of state orders within the US now.
I now have to do a better job at comparison shopping between the US stores and Amazonn.de. In this case, the three Wera torque wrenches and Hazet wheel sockets were still over $230 cheaper than if I ordered in the US.
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I also ordered some Wera L-Keys in SAE. This time it was cheaper to get them from KC Tool on sale. I have had the metric version for a while and like the performance of the Hex Plus profile.
I was hoping to get the same holder as the metric ones. It is smaller and holds the tools well. Unfortunately Wera decided to put the SAE versions only in a cordura envelope which is much larger and doesn't match the metric. Perhaps they were hoping to avoid confusing the two standards. I believe a simple color change on the case would have been better. Maybe Ill look for an empty metric case..
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Maybe- Wera's nice, but twice the price!
And I believe these German drivers are made in the Czech Republic?
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They are genuine, i know i had to phone them as Ireland were not on the delivery options list but they just said to email a copy of the cart and they sorted me out. To be fair their English was better than mine !
pizza
Well-known member
i'm in the same boat. i don't trust that pouch holder in a tool bag or something. i think the smaller tools could fall out of it.
i wish they didn't do that for the SAE.
dutchgray
Well-known member
^Nice to finally have a source for Toptul that is nice and cheap, the UK sellers always seem to charge enough that you wouldn't bother with Toptul. The long spanner set I got a couple years ago is decent though.
Ordered some sockets and spanner sets.
Ordered some sockets and spanner sets.
Correct. Ex-US Amazon sites seem to now be collecting US state/local sales tax on orders. Ex-US eBay sites are too, incidentally.
Funny...I want metric in the pouch! I really like it.
zeug
Well-known member
I don't have full-sized Wera metric L-keys, just the short ones that are $5 or so from KC Tool (everyone should have a few of those sets around). If they had metric in a pouch I would probably be pushed over the edge to buy them though.
One nice thing about the Wera pouch is there's a flap ahead of the larger keys that can secure a metric set in one of those old-fashioned straight holders. So you can have all the L-keys in a desk drawer or something like that (where I keep the set below) in a protected package that won't snag on anything.
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When this went out of stock at KC I checked amazon.co.uk and amazon.de both before buying from amazon.de the same set. According to KC the whole set is made in Germany.
The bottle opener has only one shortcoming, no convenient way to store it. A rare earth magnet on the broad part fixed that for me.
To be blunt the importer of record (not KCT) is lying.
The bottle opener is German.
The screwdriver is obviously Slovenian (Olplast).
My guess is the bits, case, and l-keys are Chinese. Not that it particularly matters, except at the US price they should have sockets or something.
FWIW, my impression of Rolplast is...fine but not worldbeating. PB Swiss, Felo, and Williams ratchets work better than Rolplast on loose fasteners. In terms of feel Rolplast feels just like the clutch in Wiha Topra.
Cynical huckster
Well-known member
Some Ko-ken stuff.
I would like to ask one question - maybe someone knows the answer to it. I got a few heads here. In good condition. But I have never heard of such a manufacturer Wilton. Anyone can suggest something? Photo until I can post. But I will try to correct this unfortunate misunderstanding within a few days and publish a photo.
pizza
Well-known member
has anyone ever tried out azde's prime free trial? not azus prime.
i'm wondering if it has any impact on de -> us shipping costs. obviously it has benefits for shopping inside of de, but could it also help international shoppers like me save?
i'm wondering if it has any impact on de -> us shipping costs. obviously it has benefits for shopping inside of de, but could it also help international shoppers like me save?
Dave455
Well-known member
JBH has got it right.
Most of the Hazet L keys are, I believe, made by Inbus. I don’t own any but I’ve used them, and they clearly say “Made in Germany”. The L Keys supplied in this set look different to me.
Same thing with the 1/4” bits. I have some of the Hazet bits. I’m not sure who actually makes them, but they are decent quality, and have a dark grey finish. Again, the bits supplied in this set appear to be different, and suspiciously similar to the hex keys in finish and markings.
I don’t really know what Hazet are doing here. Maybe they view these sets as “merchandising”, much like selling T shirts or hats, but if I was a tool company I wouldn’t be allowing tools to be sold that were not up to standard!
Rothenberger pliers, Facom ratchet spanner, Toptul spanner.
Rothenberger is a pipe/plumbing supplier. These pliers are made by Gedore (or from the same company that makes Gedore pliers). In red, they couldn't be any more of a rip off of Knipex. Found them cheapish so giving them a try.
Made in Austria.
I like the shape of the handles and the way they stay close together and close to parallel throughout most of the range of adjustment.
Rothenberger is a pipe/plumbing supplier. These pliers are made by Gedore (or from the same company that makes Gedore pliers). In red, they couldn't be any more of a rip off of Knipex. Found them cheapish so giving them a try.
Made in Austria.
I like the shape of the handles and the way they stay close together and close to parallel throughout most of the range of adjustment.
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