GFCI Breaker popping

[akpolaris]

I have a circuit for my residential exterior lighting that is GFCI protected. All the boxes are inside and not exposed to weather. 3 exterior lights on the residence with boxes inside the t1-11 siding. 3 unheated outbuildings with a couple of exterior lights and interior lights in each. Switches are inside the sheds. Recently the GFCI in the house popped and I replaced it assuming that it was just failing, aged. now the new breaker is popping quite intermittently and a few days later it will function fine again. I have checked the boxes and the connections seem secure. After talking with an electrician he suggested that the boxes may be getting condensation which is melting / dripping in the box. He suggested using duct seal on the face of the boxes and replacing the plates. Sound idea?? The entire box is in unheated spaces so I am not sure how sealing the faceplate is a solution. This circuit has been functioning with no problem for 8 or 10 years until recently. I haven't tracked the failures against the changing weather. I am in a temperate part of Alaska so we do have some temps that fluctuate and plenty of rain and snow.

 

[PCustoms]

The GFCI feeds a circuit that goes to 3 outbuildings?

Is this wire underground or exposed?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a circuit for my residential exterior lighting that is GFCI protected. All the boxes are inside and not exposed to weather. 3 exterior lights on the residence with boxes inside the t1-11 siding. 3 unheated outbuildings with a couple of exterior lights and interior lights in each. Switches are inside the sheds. Recently the GFCI in the house popped and I replaced it assuming that it was just failing, aged. now the new breaker is popping quite intermittently and a few days later it will function fine again. I have checked the boxes and the connections seem secure. After talking with an electrician he suggested that the boxes may be getting condensation which is melting / dripping in the box. He suggested using duct seal on the face of the boxes and replacing the plates. Sound idea?? The entire box is in unheated spaces so I am not sure how sealing the faceplate is a solution. This circuit has been functioning with no problem for 8 or 10 years until recently. I haven't tracked the failures against the changing weather. I am in a temperate part of Alaska so we do have some temps that fluctuate and plenty of rain and snow.

wow you have a lot on this one circuit. might be difficult to track it down

can you disconnect some of the outbuildings to isolate part of the circuit and see if it still trips?

A GFCI wont trip due to moisture simply being inside the box. The moisture would need to make a connection between hot and ground or neutral and ground creating a current imbalance on the hot and neutral...

also, a loose connection will not cause a GFCI or standard breaker to trip. Only an AFCI breaker would trip with a loose connection, because of the associated arcing.

 

[510ebl]

Is the breaker actually tripping or is the GFI going into “fault”?

Is there a single junction box where all these circuits are being distributed, or do they “Daisey chain” along?

 

[sberry]

We actually fixed one, got a bug in it.

 

[mcspeed]

If there are any extension cords or connections exposed to rain they could be the issue. I see it all the time.

These work pretty well.



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[akpolaris]

The wire does go underground between the buildings. It is bury able wire. It is surface mounted 12-2 wire except for 1 light switch which is a 2 way switch

UOTE=PCustoms;8808418]The GFCI feeds a circuit that goes to 3 outbuildings?

Is this wire underground or exposed?[/QUOTE]

 

[PCustoms]

My guess is you've got a bad spot in your underground feed.

 

[akpolaris]

I may have put in an AFCI but don't think so. I'm a bit confused by the applications and their use. The odd part is that this just recently started and I don't know what triggers it. Everything worked fine for years which led me to believe it was a faulty breaker. It will trip and not hold for 2 or 3 days then function fine. I guess the isolating of each building or component is a start next time it fails.
If the condensation liquified it could drip on a wire? but nothing is exposed, it is captured in wire nuts. Except the screws to the switches and fixtures

wow you have a lot on this one circuit. might be difficult to track it down

can you disconnect some of the outbuildings to isolate part of the circuit and see if it still trips?

A GFCI wont trip due to moisture simply being inside the box. The moisture would need to make a connection between hot and ground or neutral and ground creating a current imbalance on the hot and neutral...

also, a loose connection will not cause a GFCI or standard breaker to trip. Only an AFCI breaker would trip with a loose connection, because of the associated arcing.

 

[akpolaris]

At the 1st building there is a 3 way switched lite fixture, with a switch in the house and out at the lights. Then the power "daisey chains" or goes "in series" from there

Is the breaker actually tripping or is the GFI going into “fault”?

Is there a single junction box where all these circuits are being distributed, or do they “Daisey chain” along?

 

[akpolaris]

Well that would ****. Why the intermittent fault and reset? wouldn't it just fail and remain that way?

My guess is you've got a bad spot in your underground feed.

 

[akpolaris]

What is the difference between "tripping" & "fault"?

Is the breaker actually tripping or is the GFI going into “fault”?

Is there a single junction box where all these circuits are being distributed, or do they “Daisey chain” along?

 

[nadogail]

I once had a similar problem with a post lamp fed by an underground cable. 25 years ago I installed an isolation transformer, the problem has not reoccurred.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is the difference between "tripping" & "fault"?

A GFCI breaker has 3 "trip" components whereas a regular breaker has 2

GFCI breaker:

1. thermal for overloads above a certain percentage of breaker rating
2. magnetic for line to line short circuit faults
3. ground fault for current imbalance between hot & neutral

a regular breaker only has 1 and 2.

so the GFCI breaker could be tripping due to a ground fault or overload trip

I doubt its an overload though...

the underground cable could have a bad spot in the insulation from a rock. when it gets wet, it causes a line to neutral or line to ground fault, which causes the GFCI portion of the breaker to fault

What brand and model of breaker do you have? some have an indicator that tells you why it tripped. Also, when it faults, you could take a multimeter (with breaker still off) and measure resistance between the hot lug on the breaker and the circuit neutral and then between hot and ground to see if you get continuity.

 

[akpolaris]

I am away from home, work remotely. I believe it is a Siemens. This seems to fault or trip when I am out of town. Can't be my wifes' fault??? LOL

A GFCI breaker has 3 "trip" components whereas a regular breaker has 2

GFCI breaker:

1. thermal for overloads above a certain percentage of breaker rating
2. magnetic for line to line short circuit faults
3. ground fault for current imbalance between hot & neutral

a regular breaker only has 1 and 2.

so the GFCI breaker could be tripping due to a ground fault or overload trip

I doubt its an overload though...

the underground cable could have a bad spot in the insulation from a rock. when it gets wet, it causes a line to neutral or line to ground fault, which causes the GFCI portion of the breaker to fault

What brand and model of breaker do you have? some have an indicator that tells you why it tripped. Also, when it faults, you could take a multimeter (with breaker still off) and measure resistance between the hot lug on the breaker and the circuit neutral and then between hot and ground to see if you get continuity.

 

[akpolaris]

So can I test this breaker in this manner by just switching it off or does the testing need to be done when it is "tripped"?

A GFCI breaker has 3 "trip" components whereas a regular breaker has 2

GFCI breaker:

1. thermal for overloads above a certain percentage of breaker rating
2. magnetic for line to line short circuit faults
3. ground fault for current imbalance between hot & neutral

a regular breaker only has 1 and 2.

so the GFCI breaker could be tripping due to a ground fault or overload trip

I doubt its an overload though...

the underground cable could have a bad spot in the insulation from a rock. when it gets wet, it causes a line to neutral or line to ground fault, which causes the GFCI portion of the breaker to fault

What brand and model of breaker do you have? some have an indicator that tells you why it tripped. Also, when it faults, you could take a multimeter (with breaker still off) and measure resistance between the hot lug on the breaker and the circuit neutral and then between hot and ground to see if you get continuity.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am away from home, work remotely. I believe it is a Siemens. This seems to fault or trip when I am out of town. Can't be my wifes' fault??? LOL

What she plugging in when you are not home and unplugging when you are ?????

 

[akpolaris]

Whatever it is she is welcome to it if it keeps her happy

What she plugging in when you are not home and unplugging when you are ?????

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So can I test this breaker in this manner by just switching it off or does the testing need to be done when it is "tripped"?

you can test it with it off or tripped. doesn't matter.

but if you test it right after its tripped, it may give you a better idea of what the problem could be.

 

[torqueman2002]

I have a lamp post with an outlet that are connected to an inside GFCI.

It has been fine for years.

About 4 months ago, I installed a new lamp fixture and LED lamp. They worked well throughout the summer, but when the fall/damp weather came along, the GFCI began tripping.

I replaced the GFCI thinking it may be faulty, but the new one continued to trip.

After replacing the LED lamp with an incandescent one, the GFCI has not tripped.