Cast iron or **** steel?

[Bugeyed Earl]

I picked up a cheap HF 4x6 horizontal bandsaw this week with a known problem - the moving jaw nut was broken, but fortunately the owner kept the parts so I could attempt a repair. Apart from that and a shocking amount of brass powder in the gearbox, it's in great shape and I'm just clamping material to the fixed jaw for now.

So I have both parts of the nut on my bench, and could certainly weld it together if it's steel, but looking at the granular texture where it split, I'm wondering if this is cast iron? I did a grind test and I can't see any difference from a piece of mild steel bar stock. I've already ordered a replacement nut from Grizzly, though I'm not certain it will fit (it was only $8,) but I'd probably try to stick this one back together if I had some silicon bronze filler rod.

Does anyone know if cast iron would be used to make a small part like this nut with its two threaded holes? Is it just junky cast steel?

 

[f150skidoo]

Since you already did a spark test I would guess it’s cast steel, or forged steel. Since you already ordered a replacement I would try and v out the joint and weld it with what ever you have on hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[welder4956]

One more test would be to drill it on the fracture or somewhere it won't be noticed. If the drilling produces shavings it is steel, if the drilling produces granules it is cast iron. We encounter a good bit of cast iron in our 1920's vintage hydroelectric plants and this is our tried and true method.

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

Yeah, I just found a video from Fireball Tools on youtube and he prefers that method too. I've never attempted to repair cast iron before, but I like having that option.

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

Since you already did a spark test I would guess it’s cast steel, or forged steel. Since you already ordered a replacement I would try and v out the joint and weld it with what ever you have on hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll be able to get a better look at the sparks when I v it out too, I might try to get some video of that.

 

[RoninB4]

I'd be willing to wager that's a casting of some flavor of mystery metal. I can't see that being an extrusion or that China would machine all those shapes/geometry from bar stock. The break has all the telltale signs of a crappy casting. If it breaks, not shears, with no stretch marks it's not cold/hot rolled bar stock. Welding, as suggested previously, is a good idea since you have another on order.

 

[driftpin]

Ed. note: a famous rumination on the utilization of scrap steel from the United States of America, by "the Orient."

plato told

him:he couldn’t
believe it(jesus

told him;he
wouldn’t believe
it)lao

tsze
certainly told
him,and general
(yes

mam)
sherman;
and even
(believe it
or

not)you
told him:i told
him;we told him
(he didn’t believe it,no

sir)it took
a nipponized bit of
the old sixth

avenue
el;in the top of his head:to tell

him


CONTRIBUTOR
E.E. Cummings

The final lines of e.e. cummings’ poem refer to Manhattan’s dismantled Sixth Avenue elevated tracks, which were bought as scrap metal by Imperial Japan three years before the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/states-war/ee-cummings-told-him

 

[PugetDude]

I'd say it's worth a try. V it out, preheat a bit and TIG it with stainless rod.
You really have nothing to lose...

 

[The Cobbler]

it looks like you could add longer bolt & get into the threads of the nut side ?

 

[4 FN 27]

Appears to be a Powder Metallurgy part.

Should be weldable as others have mentioned. But it may melt away if it is porous.

A video on the process.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Looks like some of the first Chinese import stuff from the mid-eighties. Much like the cast steel hammers that Odd Lots used to sell.

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

So I drilled the nut and it just produced powdery shavings, not looking good. I also attempted to get a little weld puddle going, and it spit and cratered like my argon was off. Mystery metal is a good description, even retooled 6th ave el scrap isn't this shabby.

@The Cobbler: yes, a slightly longer bolt would probably hold it together, and there's even more room to run a bottoming tap down to get a few more threads. I don't know if it's worth the effort, but combined with a silicon bronze brazing it would be plenty strong.

 

[welder4956]

So I drilled the nut and it just produced powdery shavings, not looking good. I also attempted to get a little weld puddle going, and it spit and cratered like my argon was off. Mystery metal is a good description, even retooled 6th ave el scrap isn't this shabby.

@The Cobbler: yes, a slightly longer bolt would probably hold it together, and there's even more room to run a bottoming tap down to get a few more threads. I don't know if it's worth the effort, but combined with a silicon bronze brazing it would be plenty strong.

You might try ERCuSi-A silicon bronze wire with the tig. I usually run it on AC, but DC-EN would be OK too.

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

Yes, I think I’ll order some of that filler and play around with it, seems like a useful tool.

 

[RoninB4]

Very doubtful that it's a powdered metal part, that would make it far more expensive than cast and unnecessary for the function it serves. OP drilling produced powdery shavings lends further evidence of it being cast.

I'm unqualified to comment on welding but the attempts by the OP further suggest mystery metal was employed. I appreciate the welding efforts of the OP and the advice of other welders, it broadens my knowledge of welding even if I can't do it myself.

Suggestion of drill/tap and using longer bolts was a good one. As a machinist that can't weld any longer that's what I would have done.

 

[matt_i]

Classic fix for repairing castings is flux coated bronze brazing rod with an oxyacteylene torch.

Very easy to do, vee out the crack (around the perimeter of the interface), clamp in place and pour the heat to it, melt a little flux off the rod into the crack to get it started.

Its not a process where the liquid metal will "wick" ala sweat-soldered copper pipe fittings instantly into place, filling all voids. You have to work your way around, wetting and filling as you go.

 

[lilredex]

I'd try silver solder on that joint first. Flattened rod laid in there, wicking across the joint, might be enough. Adding a couple of pins would add strength and align the pieces.

I have some tough 3/16" wire that could act both as a transfer punch and a pin. It is from election signs and seems like it was made from bed rail material.

Brazing could be added later if need be.

 

[metlmunchr]

https://www.grizzly.com/parts/grizzly-vise-nut/p0622133

 

[ddawg16]

Supper glue?

 

[like2wheel]

Supper glue?

Haha that's what my wife makes sometimes

 

[NUTTSGT]

Supper glue?

Holds the family together around the dinner table ?

 

[PugetDude]

Holds the family together around the dinner table ?

Family bonding.

 

[ddawg16]

Holds the family together around the dinner table ?

Family bonding.

That could be a sticky subject

 

[slowtx275]

Supper glue?

That is what I was thinking...JB weld the hell out of it and call it good.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Driftpin
Well- and cleverly-played with the e.e. cummings excerpt! I suppose the "bombs" in this case are time-delayed, passively, silently destroying our infrastructure and economy one faulty machine purchase at a time.

Supper glue?

Extra thick gravy.

 

[4 FN 27]

Driftpin
Well- and cleverly-played with the e.e. cummings excerpt! I suppose the "bombs" in this case are time-delayed, passively, silently destroying our infrastructure and economy one faulty machine purchase at a time.

More fact than fiction in the broader sense.

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

So to follow up, I received the replacement nut from Grizzly, and it's a perfect fit. Their model G0622 appears to be identical to the current model of the 4x6" saw from HF. Probably made on the same factory lines or at least from the same specs.

In the meantime, I took another wack at sticking the broken nut back together with interesting results. Ground out a V along all mating edges and cleaned with acetone:

I started way down around 35A, DCEN using a silicon bronze brazing rod, and.....

boom!

I did get it tacked together, but the filler didn't flow properly at this current. I'm still not sure what this is made of, but it doesn't seem to like heat very much! Even with the low heat, I couldn't get a clean arc going, it spatters and smokes and the metal just vaporizes. Seems like this stuff has a bit too much semtex in it

I've read that AC might work better, so I'll give that a try later.

 

[4 FN 27]

Interesting.

I am still leaning toward Powdered Metallurgy.

Did find one interesting read on it:

https://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/25063/InTech-Weldability_of_iron_based_powder_metal_alloys_using_pulsed_gtaw_process.pdf/

Skip down to 3.1 Influence of the porosity

Very interested in what this material is.

 

[dffay]

I think I might bevel both pieces and use Nickel Rod stick electrode. OR braze it with high temp flux and bronze rod. But not both. I'd choose. Once you braze, you can never weld it. The bronze has gotten into the molecules of the parent metal so you are left with that as a fix.

I'm still thinking stick weld Nickel Rod.

 

[dffay]

Oh yes, really heat soak it first...either torch or your propane BBQ grill. Slow the cooling by covering it with Play Sand after the welding/brazing process.

 

[Jim greengo]

I'm no expert but I'd lean towards brazing it also.

 

[PugetDude]

Any updates, Earl?

 

[toplessHO]

One more test would be to drill it on the fracture or somewhere it won't be noticed. If the drilling produces shavings it is steel, if the drilling produces granules it is cast iron. We encounter a good bit of cast iron in our 1920's vintage hydroelectric plants and this is our tried and true method.

that is the WORD

 

[Bugeyed Earl]

Any updates, Earl?

Not really, I lost interest when I couldn't tig braze it with the silicon bronze filler. I might try again on AC, but I have a working saw now with the Grizzly replacement nut, so it's slipped down the priority list.