Jacking up a porch rim joist?

[MatBirch]

Planning stages for attacking my next issue on our old home. The front room was originally the front porch. At some point in history, it was framed in and converted to interior space. It’s a wonderful space, that we’d like to use more. Trouble is, it’s sinking. Don’t know how fast, but I’d guess it’s dropped a couple inches in 50 years?? The windows have all been screwed together and made inoperable. The drywall is cracking in several areas, and the door on the end wall sticks badly. The floor is noticeably sloped, but I think some of that is original by design. I haven’t measured, but I’d guess it drops 4” over 8’!
Oddly, the damage and door sticking does not “match up” with the amount of slope in the floor. I think the remodel was done mid-sink...

I’d like to start jacking it back up this spring. There is no exterior foundation, just a sort of skirt board around the exterior. My plan for the near future was to use some pier blocks with screw type adjustable post bases. I could swear there was once a readily available version of the cinder block pyramid blocks with a screw jack??? I can’t find them anywhere. I feel I should bring it back up slowly, rather than just crank it back up into position. I’m afraid it will bust even more stuff apart. That’s why I want the screw adjustment type.
“Someday” I’ll tear into it properly, and just replace everything properly, but in the short term, I’d like to mitigate the existing damage, repair the cracked Sheetrock, and get the door working properly. Oh! And get the shims out from under the China hutch so it stands up straight! Lol.

 

[Jlbc212]

Take a look at this screw jack:

https://ellismanufacturing.com/prod...DAVqMr2HinhnGA3tDh3z7T_wawqBsczIaAloVEALw_wcB

What's your plan for providing a permanent foundation solution?

 

[TractorJeff]

Saw this on Holmes on Homes the other night.
FINALLY A NEW ONE! Not a RERUN!
Anyways, they ended up gutting the whole mess because the Porch Foundation was not deep enough to stop Frost issues plus most of it was caving in.
If I went through the trouble to jack it up to level, I would fix the Foundation issues right away. Why fix interior parts that maybe damaged on the second go-round?

 

[56Mark]

If it was enclosed after some of the sink had occurred, I bet the end walls were framed on an angle and the sheathing/siding that way too. It will be the ends walls that put up the resistance and where cracking will occur. You are taking a parallelogram and trying to push it back to a rectangle which ain't going to happen without something giving if it is sheathed well.

Long term it might be less damage to stabilize it as is with a solid foundation, maybe lifting a little to get back to where it was when enclosed. Then tear out the floor and sister on new joist that are level. A lot of work, but probably worth it.

 

[L5wolvesf]

We have an added on back porch. It was eventually framed in by PO w/o permits so we had to put a foundation under it. Made sure the blocks etc were level - they were and are. But the room is all cockeyed and we would probably have to gut it to square it up. Luckily it is just storage for us.

 

[justanengineer]

My go-to for leveling is a bottle jack and a pile of blocking but have used everything from a hi-lift mechanical to floor jacks. Go slow and measure regularly to make sure what you think is moving really is.


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[KenC]

If it really was an exterior porch, the floor was intentionally sloped to promote water runoff. Very common design for those. But, the ceiling was normally level. So, if I were working on it that would be my goal, get the ceiling level and support the floor structure to that point. If my guess is correct that should restore the end wall door but, will likely result in leaving the shims under the china hutch!

I don't know the overall size but if small enough I'd dig deep square footers at each end. And maybe one or two midspan. These can be used to support a beam to carry the load over the length.

 

[nadogail]

If I recall correctly, when the White House was remodeled during Truman's administration they used hydraulic bottle jacks to level part of that old building, the engineers then encased them in concrete. I read about this in Popular Science at the time. I guess this was around '49 to '51.

So if it was good enough for the White House, it should be good enough to fix your place.

 

[BFBOB]

I've done similar leveling with nothing but a small bottle jack and cribbing. I think the one I used most was maybe 1 1/2 tons, and it was more than enough. For what you describe, the hardest part may be digging deep enough to get new footings below the frost line. Others have pointed out the hazards of trying to square up something that may have been deliberately built to match an unsquare structure. Go slow- start at the lowest point, take it up maybe 1/2" and see what happens.
Oh, and use ONLY treated wood!!!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Wait until early summer when the ground has firmed up or you jack will just sink into the ground. You need a good base. Start with two 2x6 glued with Liquid Nails, side to side. Put a second layer, same as the first, but nail/screw the layers together.

Before jacking on that rim joist you should really reinforce it. Get another 2by the same width at least 6' long and nail it to the existing one. If the existing one is soft, you may have to get a piece of 1/4x2x2 angle steel to plave under that.

 

[Bert_]

Most porches had a sloped floor. Mine is supported by 4 piers made of 2' square concrete blocks.

 

[MatBirch]

You guys make some great points. At this stage, it is definitely just a repair. Get the door functioning, and clean up the interior a bit.
Long term plan is definitely to fix it ALL and properly. Currently the front door is on the end wall. It kind of makes for a small, awkward, less than inviting front entry. We want to move it to the center of the long wall, new windows for the rest of the room, and really make it a nice front entry. Probably add a ground level patio area across the front.
It will require pretty much gutting the whole works, full foundation, reframe, insulate, etc. This will need to be a few years down the road though, so in the meantime...

 

[pod184]

My FIL this this exact thing to his enclosed front porch a couple years ago. The house is 120+ years old, sometime in the early 1900's it was enclosed in windows all the way around. Before he started, only a couple of them still opened, and the side windows were noticeably visually not square.
He put a 4x4 beam across the joists by the sill plate, then used 3 bottle jacks the width of the porch, and jacked it level. I think it went up 4-5 inches in a few days. Way faster than I thought it should go, but nothing broke.
He figured it took decades to sink, so he just shored up the original wood with treated sill plate spacers and didn't add any new footings.
The windows now all work and it no longer seems or looks sloped, so a general win overall.
Is this the right way to do it? Probably not, but it will probably take many more decades for this to be an issue again.

 

[CraigStu]

If I am envisioning this correctly, this may help. I am thinking that if the siding and drywall that is on the end walls were removed, jacking the outer wall, floor, and ceiling/roof would move relatively easily. And the end walls would go from being a parallelogram to square much more easily. I agree w/ KenC also.
"If it really was an exterior porch, the floor was intentionally sloped to promote water runoff. Very common design for those. But, the ceiling was normally level. So, if I were working on it that would be my goal, get the ceiling level and support the floor structure to that point."

 

[Loose Nut Buster]

I agree with "just an engineer"
6-20 ton elchepo bottle jacks, 4' railroad ties for cribbing all four corners and midway, I raised a100+ yr old 18 x 24 horse stable that was sinking on corner stones, lasered it in level (measuring from the loft down) chainsawed the rotted bottom off, new PT sill plates and set it down on a new block foundation.
Same jacks but different story.
125 yr old home same similar as to yours almost exactly. Patience, going slowly and alot of measuring & level work (measureing from the ceiling down) i found to work the best for a reference starting point and started jacking/pumping on the bottle jacks. Count your strokes on each jack as needed and you'll get to where you need slowly & equally, sounds like a big deal but really isn't.
Just try and visualize the big picture, work it out (big picture) in your head from there just keep reevaluating the big picture as you go. Raise it (house) 1/8 - 1/4" higher than needed to get your foundation block into position (this is the hardest part) then slowly lower the house down on it.
The dig of the footing will be your biggest issue, possibly you could use a post hole digger to dig for pouring tunes and just have pillars. Whatever method just be sure you have "all" loose dirt out B4 you pour.
I'm just a sidewalk engineer from the school of hard knocks with a degree in bricklaying that thinks alot, these jobs were 15 yrs ago and are still rock solid.
A house is only as sound as its foundation.
Good luck and don't give up, you'll feel proud when your job is complete
P.S. I kept two of the jacks as a reminder of a job I knew nothing about but passed all city inspections. Yes, same city different locations and still proud of the accomplishment I knew nothing about. Just thinking it through!

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[510ebl]

However you address the bottom, don’t forget about the top. Straightening out the leveling issues at the foundation level may introduce roof leaks as things move around.

 

[chaosracing]

If your going to the trouble of jacking it up now to fix interior stuff, you should just do it right from the beginning. Reason why is if you have to re jack when doing a permanent repair to the foundation, you will very likely move stuff again and damage the drywall again, resulting in having to repair it once again. I hate drywall repair (even though I am very good at it) and really hate doing it over again.

What I would do is jack it up slowly. Keep an eye on the connection to the house. If it is 4" out of level in 8', you may not be able to get all of that out due to it once being a porch and it was probably built with some slope in it to begin with.
If you can, get a 4x4 minimum to put right under the porch on the diagonal and then use a bottle jack to jack up the corner. If possible, get two bottle jacks, one for each corner to jack at the same time. Then this way, you can dig under the corners and can put in a pier footing at each corner. Jack a little more than you have to giving yourself an allowance for settling and for letting the building come down on top of the new foundation.

 

[Bert_]

Porch joists are usually way undersized. They also usually run the long way because the flooring needed to be laid parallel to the slope. It's not ideal for living space.

Mine is 28' long, 2x6 joists supported on each end and the middle. That's a 14' span on a 2x6. I have seen quite a few with 2x4 joists. Not great if you're putting a bunch of stuff out there.

 

[brownbagg]

mobile home dealer have these concrete block with a screw jack embeded, you lever with the block and just leave it, it there forever, some people even build them diy

 

[danniel]

yes already, this is the first time I've heard porch edges lifted outside of the jack. There are mini screw jacks sold everywhere on the internet. I recommend you take a look.

 

[MatBirch]

If your going to the trouble of jacking it up now to fix interior stuff, you should just do it right from the beginning. Reason why is if you have to re jack when doing a permanent repair to the foundation, you will very likely move stuff again.

When it’s time to do the complete project, the entire porch is getting scrapped. There’s not enough to save anyway. It will get a full foundation, and rebuilt up from that with new everything...
I may however wait on everything. I’ll get a better look underneath come spring.

 

[Monza Harry]

Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.torin-usa.com/bigred/big...ck-stands/item/25-ton-support-screw-jack.html
I also didn't see any mention of soil type, this will end up driving the project in my opinion/experience.
Harry