I have a simple Jet dc-650 dust collector that I’m thinking about trying to improve. I have done a lot of reading about this and just want to make sure I’m understanding something correctly. Adding a cyclone of any sort does not make it collect any better or make it more efficient, the cyclone separator just helps separate correct? My understanding is that replacing the factory filter bag with a more efficient bag (smaller micron) or a pleated filter greatly reduces the amount of super fine dust that is put into the air. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Improving basic dust collector
- Thread starter mc1984ss
- Start date
LX-Markham
Well-known member
I hooked up a small Dust Deputy to my shop vac, and it works amazingly well. Very little gets to the vac or the filter, meaning my filter doesn’t clog as much.
shoot summ
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 2,956
A separator just keeps you from dumping the bag as much, you dump the separator vessel instead. It can also reduce damage to the impeller by dropping large pieces in the separator instead of passing though the impeller.
A filter, or lower micron bag is a good thing too.
A filter, or lower micron bag is a good thing too.
tulowd
Well-known member
the really fine dust particles are of special concern. I always blow the exhaust outside or better yet, move the entire duct collector into another space so you're not inhaling the dust coming past the bag or out of the exhaust of the Vac.
There is a basic difference between vacs and dust collectors: suction vs air volume. Lots of threads and info about it on another forum called Router Forums. More info there than you can imagine.
I put my D/C into the shed next to the garage and plumbed everything thru the back wall and an unused door. Quieter and for sure cleaner. It may get a cyclone adder but they are super expensive for the large ones, and I generally don't do anything that creates large chips.
Did add a Dust Deputy to my shop vac, seems to improve it it when using the chop saw or router outdoors
There is a basic difference between vacs and dust collectors: suction vs air volume. Lots of threads and info about it on another forum called Router Forums. More info there than you can imagine.
I put my D/C into the shed next to the garage and plumbed everything thru the back wall and an unused door. Quieter and for sure cleaner. It may get a cyclone adder but they are super expensive for the large ones, and I generally don't do anything that creates large chips.
Did add a Dust Deputy to my shop vac, seems to improve it it when using the chop saw or router outdoors
Attachments
banjopete
Well-known member
I'll add another vote for the cyclone separator. It does quite literally catch 99% of the materials and keeps my little shop vac filter clean. Before using one i had to clear my filter out regularly as I cut a fair bit of mdf with my cnc router. There are better more sophisticated ways but this has improved the basic shop vac setup I use considerably for how I use it.
I'm a big fan now.
Sent from my SM-T820 using The Garage Journal mobile app
I'm a big fan now.
Sent from my SM-T820 using The Garage Journal mobile app
niget2002
Well-known member
Here's my version of "frank" - followed by frank junior and baby frank (not necessarily in order)
Big frank started as a Jet 1100 (pre-vortex version) with the micron filter - built a different cart with the frame to hold the re-located blower and motor and an earlier Super Dust Deputy cyclone. All the 4" white piping/blast gates feed that one.
Medium frank has a 16 gallon Ridgid vac, ancient tub from a large Craftsman vac and a heavy duty 2 drawer file cab for accessories (donated by a bud) - That one gets hooked to the overarm on the table saw, and will eventually pick up the smaller hoses from the three router tables - lower router dust pickup will stay with the 4" lines.
small frank has same vac, a pocket holed "bridge", and another garden hose hanger - this one stays at the house, other two are shop.
I have the steel version of the small cyclone, once I find the rest of the pieces it'll be for metal work/cleanup (made out of things that tend NOT to melt)
With the exception of the FIRST (and ONLY) time I tried to **** up styrofoam packing peanuts, all have been REALLY pleasing to use
All of the shop vac size start out clean with SLIGHTLY less suction than a new filter w/NO cyclone; the difference is, I haven't cleaned a filter in several YEARS, with ANY of 'em, 'cause the suction doesn't change noticeably (unless you try the peanut test
)... Steve
Big frank started as a Jet 1100 (pre-vortex version) with the micron filter - built a different cart with the frame to hold the re-located blower and motor and an earlier Super Dust Deputy cyclone. All the 4" white piping/blast gates feed that one.
Medium frank has a 16 gallon Ridgid vac, ancient tub from a large Craftsman vac and a heavy duty 2 drawer file cab for accessories (donated by a bud) - That one gets hooked to the overarm on the table saw, and will eventually pick up the smaller hoses from the three router tables - lower router dust pickup will stay with the 4" lines.
small frank has same vac, a pocket holed "bridge", and another garden hose hanger - this one stays at the house, other two are shop.
I have the steel version of the small cyclone, once I find the rest of the pieces it'll be for metal work/cleanup (made out of things that tend NOT to melt)
With the exception of the FIRST (and ONLY) time I tried to **** up styrofoam packing peanuts, all have been REALLY pleasing to use
All of the shop vac size start out clean with SLIGHTLY less suction than a new filter w/NO cyclone; the difference is, I haven't cleaned a filter in several YEARS, with ANY of 'em, 'cause the suction doesn't change noticeably (unless you try the peanut test
)... SteveAttachments
![IMG_20170113_152500511[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/934/934232-b633141a6d61fa3d9304c97f09de34c7.jpg)
![ShopDust-1[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/934/934311-9b5bada91905fcf6173f17361df00e22.jpg)
![ShopDust-30[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/934/934402-2668e668cd9f6cc6528e51397f38e2be.jpg)
![ShopDust-17[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/934/934446-56aa8805ab589c012c97c616c1a330ab.jpg)
![ShopDust-21[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/934/934365-4118f232be97dc3fc752d232755c525d.jpg)
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Plump
Well-known member
Nice! Love Frank Jr.
Thanks; if you mean "medium" Frank, I forgot to mention it also gets used plugged into my pocket hole setup (with an auto-start option), that mode (auto start) also gets used (with a couple of "step down" adapter hoses) for ROS, belt sander and circular saw pickup.
All those "helpers" are stored in the 2-drawer file cab, so I can (usually) find 'em when I need 'em
"medium" Frank also gets used for general cleanup. I have 5 or 6 lengths of 2-1/4" hose for that one, so reach tends NOT to be a problem... Steve
All those "helpers" are stored in the 2-drawer file cab, so I can (usually) find 'em when I need 'em
"medium" Frank also gets used for general cleanup. I have 5 or 6 lengths of 2-1/4" hose for that one, so reach tends NOT to be a problem... Steve
MarlynOC
Well-known member
With a step down to 1 inch hose I hooked my orbital disc sander to it an sanded the outside of an old 1961 hardtop that had been painted with redlead by previous owner. Captured all the lead paint dust.
Yup, it's amazing how well that works - I can sand a piece of plywood with the vac hooked up, then take a swipe across the surface with a dusting brush and get NUTTIN'
For anyone using a vac with a 8-hole ROS, here's a trick I use for getting the paper on straight - get a short piece of dowel, as close to the pad hole size as possible, make two 2" long pieces. a slight bevel on the exposed ends of the dowels (inserted in 2 opposing holes of the pad) makes it easy to get near-perfect alignment every time. I keep the "alignment pins" in the case with the sander.
I 'spose it'd work with a 5 hole too, just not quite as easy as the 8 hole.. Steve
For anyone using a vac with a 8-hole ROS, here's a trick I use for getting the paper on straight - get a short piece of dowel, as close to the pad hole size as possible, make two 2" long pieces. a slight bevel on the exposed ends of the dowels (inserted in 2 opposing holes of the pad) makes it easy to get near-perfect alignment every time. I keep the "alignment pins" in the case with the sander.
I 'spose it'd work with a 5 hole too, just not quite as easy as the 8 hole.. Steve
bradpac
Well-known member
I have a general shop vac vs dust collector question I hope it's ok to sneak in here.
Are the dust collectors any quieter than shop vacs? I do some wood working in my garage, but also do other stuff in there as well and saw dust is a pain, but I hate the sound of the shop vac going all the time. I have debated getting a dust collector, but if it's just as loud ,for my little use, I'll just keep the vac and maybe try a remote switch or something.
Are the dust collectors any quieter than shop vacs? I do some wood working in my garage, but also do other stuff in there as well and saw dust is a pain, but I hate the sound of the shop vac going all the time. I have debated getting a dust collector, but if it's just as loud ,for my little use, I'll just keep the vac and maybe try a remote switch or something.
Don1357
Well-known member
This is the thing about dust collecting on the small shop; vent outside. Whatever you think is stopping you from venting outside forget about it and vent outside.
The sort of dust that will eat your lungs is not visible, it doesn't even build up on surfaces where you can see it. It is the sub micron dust that perpetually hangs in the air until it gets into your lungs and never gets back out. If you vent inside every time you turn on your dust collector enough of that dust gets thrown in the air (without even doing any work) to make your work area fail air quality standards for work places.
How bad is this invisible dust? Bad enough that people working on commercial shops that vent outside still loose around 1% of lung capacity a year. That is venting outside, because getting a hold of the dust on the first place is that hard, but not compare to how hard it is to try and capture it with a filter.
So, what you do is install a high efficiency cyclone which will pick most of your visible dust, and the port that goes to your so-called air filter? That goes straight outside. Then spend all your time, energy and money, on getting a larger blower and figuring out how to improve your dust collection at the tool end. Because that 1% a year of lung capacity lung from shops that actually vent outside is due to failure to capture the fine dust at the tool level.
The sort of dust that will eat your lungs is not visible, it doesn't even build up on surfaces where you can see it. It is the sub micron dust that perpetually hangs in the air until it gets into your lungs and never gets back out. If you vent inside every time you turn on your dust collector enough of that dust gets thrown in the air (without even doing any work) to make your work area fail air quality standards for work places.
How bad is this invisible dust? Bad enough that people working on commercial shops that vent outside still loose around 1% of lung capacity a year. That is venting outside, because getting a hold of the dust on the first place is that hard, but not compare to how hard it is to try and capture it with a filter.
So, what you do is install a high efficiency cyclone which will pick most of your visible dust, and the port that goes to your so-called air filter? That goes straight outside. Then spend all your time, energy and money, on getting a larger blower and figuring out how to improve your dust collection at the tool end. Because that 1% a year of lung capacity lung from shops that actually vent outside is due to failure to capture the fine dust at the tool level.
fourbyford
Well-known member
MC...
You are absolutely correct on both counts. Adding a cyclone actually reduces the efficiency (less "suction") of a dust collector. Adding a dust bag with a "finer weave" will help reduce the smaller dust particles in the air.
I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms but, what the hell...
Years ago, I worked for a major supplier of woodworking tools and equipment as an R&D machinist. One of the reasons I got that job is that I'm a life-long woodworker with sales experience... not only am I familiar with woodworking machinery... I personally own a lot of machinery and there are very few machines I haven't at least operated. My primary job was to work with our senior engineer... together, we would brainstorm new products. I would ultimately build working prototypes. Together, we would get products into production and into the market.
At one point, we decided to expand our line of dust collectors by adding a 3hp cyclone. We solicited samples from two different manufacturers, hoping to just "private label" an existing product. We tested the samples against our existing 3hp "4 bagger" dust collector. I no longer have the data but, there absolutely was no comparison. The performance of the 3hp cyclones sucked... and not in a good way. At the time, Oneida was the undisputed leader in cyclone dust collection. We bought one and began testing. Our goal was to beat Oneida at their own game. I'll spare you the blow by blow action but, after 2 years of testing and development, we built the best performing 3 hp cyclone on the market at that time. We didn't just beat Oneida, we smoked them. Having said that, our cyclone still didn't match the performance of our 3 hp 4 bagger. During the 2 years, my friend and I literally lived and breathed dust collection. I learned a LOT. When I left the company, my boss gave me the prototype that I hand-built. I still have it.
As far as filtering, I found a supplier while researching the subject. I know the "hot trend" now is using pleated filters. I won't say they don't work... they do... but they have their own set of problems. In our testing, we found that the most efficient filter media was a "shaker felt" that I obtained from "American Fabric Filter" in Florida. We used their filter bags,, not only on our cyclone, but on all the rest of our line-up. AFF will make custom bags... not terribly expensive... and their customer service is second to none. If your dust collector is a standard size, you could probably buy bags directly from the company I worked for... if they have them in stock. If not, AFF has made those bags for years... cranking a set out would not be a problem. For reference, OEM bags on most dust collectors are rated at 30 micron. The felt from AFF is rated at 5 micron... a definite improvement.
We could talk endlessly about sub-micron particles but... I'm not sure what that would accomplish. At one point, I did production woodwork in my own shop. I've had dust collection in my shop ever since I knew it was a "thing". I finally reached the point where I had dedicated lines running to each machine... and did my best to "seal up" each machine to capture as much dust as possible. What I finally realized is that its not realistic to think about collecting 100% of even saw dust, not to mention micro-fine particles. So... you do the best ya can and call it a day. I've been working with wood for well over 50 years. I can't even imagine how much saw dust I breathed in before I realized that was a bad idea. A couple years ago,, I had a ct scan of my chest... more recently, had a physical... not a single problem noted... everything is working just fine. I should mention that I've never smoked as much as a single cigarette... probably has some bearing on my health. When I was in sales, one of my elderly customers got into lathe turning... and he was pretty good at it. Apparently, he had smoked his entire life. Probably about a year and a half in, he developed breathing issues and was put on oxygen. Probably a year (or two?) after that... he was gone. No doubt, the dust got him. And, he knew it was getting him but he loved turning wood... refused to give it up. My point is, I realize dust can be a hazard but I don't know how a guy would totally eliminate the risk. As I mentioned, personally, I'll do the best I can to capture all I can... but, I'm not gonna give up working wood either.
Anyways, enough rambling from me... if there's any way I can help, let me know...
...D
You are absolutely correct on both counts. Adding a cyclone actually reduces the efficiency (less "suction") of a dust collector. Adding a dust bag with a "finer weave" will help reduce the smaller dust particles in the air.
I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms but, what the hell...
Years ago, I worked for a major supplier of woodworking tools and equipment as an R&D machinist. One of the reasons I got that job is that I'm a life-long woodworker with sales experience... not only am I familiar with woodworking machinery... I personally own a lot of machinery and there are very few machines I haven't at least operated. My primary job was to work with our senior engineer... together, we would brainstorm new products. I would ultimately build working prototypes. Together, we would get products into production and into the market.
At one point, we decided to expand our line of dust collectors by adding a 3hp cyclone. We solicited samples from two different manufacturers, hoping to just "private label" an existing product. We tested the samples against our existing 3hp "4 bagger" dust collector. I no longer have the data but, there absolutely was no comparison. The performance of the 3hp cyclones sucked... and not in a good way. At the time, Oneida was the undisputed leader in cyclone dust collection. We bought one and began testing. Our goal was to beat Oneida at their own game. I'll spare you the blow by blow action but, after 2 years of testing and development, we built the best performing 3 hp cyclone on the market at that time. We didn't just beat Oneida, we smoked them. Having said that, our cyclone still didn't match the performance of our 3 hp 4 bagger. During the 2 years, my friend and I literally lived and breathed dust collection. I learned a LOT. When I left the company, my boss gave me the prototype that I hand-built. I still have it.
As far as filtering, I found a supplier while researching the subject. I know the "hot trend" now is using pleated filters. I won't say they don't work... they do... but they have their own set of problems. In our testing, we found that the most efficient filter media was a "shaker felt" that I obtained from "American Fabric Filter" in Florida. We used their filter bags,, not only on our cyclone, but on all the rest of our line-up. AFF will make custom bags... not terribly expensive... and their customer service is second to none. If your dust collector is a standard size, you could probably buy bags directly from the company I worked for... if they have them in stock. If not, AFF has made those bags for years... cranking a set out would not be a problem. For reference, OEM bags on most dust collectors are rated at 30 micron. The felt from AFF is rated at 5 micron... a definite improvement.
We could talk endlessly about sub-micron particles but... I'm not sure what that would accomplish. At one point, I did production woodwork in my own shop. I've had dust collection in my shop ever since I knew it was a "thing". I finally reached the point where I had dedicated lines running to each machine... and did my best to "seal up" each machine to capture as much dust as possible. What I finally realized is that its not realistic to think about collecting 100% of even saw dust, not to mention micro-fine particles. So... you do the best ya can and call it a day. I've been working with wood for well over 50 years. I can't even imagine how much saw dust I breathed in before I realized that was a bad idea. A couple years ago,, I had a ct scan of my chest... more recently, had a physical... not a single problem noted... everything is working just fine. I should mention that I've never smoked as much as a single cigarette... probably has some bearing on my health. When I was in sales, one of my elderly customers got into lathe turning... and he was pretty good at it. Apparently, he had smoked his entire life. Probably about a year and a half in, he developed breathing issues and was put on oxygen. Probably a year (or two?) after that... he was gone. No doubt, the dust got him. And, he knew it was getting him but he loved turning wood... refused to give it up. My point is, I realize dust can be a hazard but I don't know how a guy would totally eliminate the risk. As I mentioned, personally, I'll do the best I can to capture all I can... but, I'm not gonna give up working wood either.
Anyways, enough rambling from me... if there's any way I can help, let me know...
...D
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fourbyford
Well-known member
Brad...
A dust collector, to me, is much quieter than a shop vac. Shop vacs tend to "whine"... pretty much what you'll hear with a dust collector is the air moving through the duct work.
While not necessarily "quiet", a dust collector is quieter and is much more suited for what youre doing.
...D
A dust collector, to me, is much quieter than a shop vac. Shop vacs tend to "whine"... pretty much what you'll hear with a dust collector is the air moving through the duct work.
While not necessarily "quiet", a dust collector is quieter and is much more suited for what youre doing.
...D
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niget2002
Well-known member
The other difference is the frequency. Shop vacs are a higher pitched sound. The dust collector tends to run at a lower RPM which gives it more of a lower pitched droning sound.
bradpac
Well-known member
Thank you both, I will start my search for a dust collection unit. And will keep my eye on this discussion for sure.
BMW Rider
Well-known member
My experience having added a cyclone to my dust collector is that it runs far more consistently over time as it allows almost no dust to reach the bag and filter. That means the pleated filter does not get loaded up reducing the air flow. It also means I have a much larger dust capacity with the barrel than with the bags, so less frequent emptying is needed.
niget2002
Well-known member
I don't think you're opening a can of worms at all. In fact, I'd like to hear more. Do you have details as to how/why it makes it less efficient? I can't deny your empirical evidence and supporting testing.
Also, doesn't the finer weave bags cause a reduction in efficiency too? don't they induce more back pressure against the fan?
I'm only a weekend warrior at best when it comes to woodworking. I've considered routing the output from my DC out the side of my shop, I just haven't taken the plunge to punching a hole in the wall. Mostly because I haven't decided if this is the permanent location for the DC yet. Most of the time I'm working out there I have two 8' garage doors open with a cross breeze through the shop.
fourbyford
Well-known member
As far as reduced efficiency...
Any time you alter the path of a fluid (in this case, air) moving through piping... such as by adding fittings... Tee's, elbows and the like, flow is affected. In initial testing, we found the flow of our dust collectors to be less than the competition. We tested our machines using a given length of an appropriately sized (4", 6" or 8") duct to simulate actual use in a shop environment. Through testing several brands, we realized that the results posted by other companys were taken at the blower inlet. So, by merely adding a length of straight duct, the flow numbers were reduced. Now, imagine routing the air through the blower, causing it to swirl through the cone and then finally exit the cyclone. The result is reduced efficiency.
Don't get me wrong... I like cyclones! They have definite advantages when it comes to emptying the sawdust. I also own a 3 hp conventional (4 bagger) dust collector. I quickly discovered that emptying the bags on that machine is something I do NOT look forward to. But, its ability to move air exceeds that of any 3 hp cyclone.
So, the bottom line is, if you need to move a given volume of air over a given distance... especially with a number of restriction-causing fittings in your ductwork, you'll need a larger cyclone to do the same work a slightly smaller conventional dust collector could accomplish.
For weekenders, this is probably not a consideration whatsoever... the ductwork in my shop makes it very relevant.
As far as a finer weave on the filter bags...
We did extensive testing on those as well. Our initial tests on the bags from AFF were on a 3 hp 4 bag machine. We installed the bags and turned the machine on... the bags did not inflate... as "normal" bags do. Thinking something was wrong, I phoned my contact at AFF. Nothing wrong at all... the bags flow so well that there's not enough resistance to cause the bags to inflate. As I mentioned, we did extensive testing against bags from other manufacturers... night and day difference between them. If you own a dust collector, buying replacement bags from AFF is seriously the best modification you can make to improve both filter efficiency and overall performance.
We also did extensive testing with pleated filters. These filters do tend to flow better than OEM bags (but not as well as the felt from AFF) but we encountered problems with a "dust cake" forming on the inner surfaces of those filters which we found difficult to remove. And, these were mounted to cyclones. One machine came equipped with an internal "beater bar" (manually operated) that was intended to dislodge the dust. We found the performance of that function to be marginal. Once the dust cake built up on the pleated filters, efficiency was reduced.
Again, I'm not saying pleated filters don't work. But, for my money, the free-flowing felt bags are best... even though they take up more space. I actually had been working on a solution to that problem but the owner of the company I worked for had no interest. One day, I'll build that for my cyclone... not sure if ill try to pursue a commercial application.
...D
Any time you alter the path of a fluid (in this case, air) moving through piping... such as by adding fittings... Tee's, elbows and the like, flow is affected. In initial testing, we found the flow of our dust collectors to be less than the competition. We tested our machines using a given length of an appropriately sized (4", 6" or 8") duct to simulate actual use in a shop environment. Through testing several brands, we realized that the results posted by other companys were taken at the blower inlet. So, by merely adding a length of straight duct, the flow numbers were reduced. Now, imagine routing the air through the blower, causing it to swirl through the cone and then finally exit the cyclone. The result is reduced efficiency.
Don't get me wrong... I like cyclones! They have definite advantages when it comes to emptying the sawdust. I also own a 3 hp conventional (4 bagger) dust collector. I quickly discovered that emptying the bags on that machine is something I do NOT look forward to. But, its ability to move air exceeds that of any 3 hp cyclone.
So, the bottom line is, if you need to move a given volume of air over a given distance... especially with a number of restriction-causing fittings in your ductwork, you'll need a larger cyclone to do the same work a slightly smaller conventional dust collector could accomplish.
For weekenders, this is probably not a consideration whatsoever... the ductwork in my shop makes it very relevant.
As far as a finer weave on the filter bags...
We did extensive testing on those as well. Our initial tests on the bags from AFF were on a 3 hp 4 bag machine. We installed the bags and turned the machine on... the bags did not inflate... as "normal" bags do. Thinking something was wrong, I phoned my contact at AFF. Nothing wrong at all... the bags flow so well that there's not enough resistance to cause the bags to inflate. As I mentioned, we did extensive testing against bags from other manufacturers... night and day difference between them. If you own a dust collector, buying replacement bags from AFF is seriously the best modification you can make to improve both filter efficiency and overall performance.
We also did extensive testing with pleated filters. These filters do tend to flow better than OEM bags (but not as well as the felt from AFF) but we encountered problems with a "dust cake" forming on the inner surfaces of those filters which we found difficult to remove. And, these were mounted to cyclones. One machine came equipped with an internal "beater bar" (manually operated) that was intended to dislodge the dust. We found the performance of that function to be marginal. Once the dust cake built up on the pleated filters, efficiency was reduced.
Again, I'm not saying pleated filters don't work. But, for my money, the free-flowing felt bags are best... even though they take up more space. I actually had been working on a solution to that problem but the owner of the company I worked for had no interest. One day, I'll build that for my cyclone... not sure if ill try to pursue a commercial application.
...D
Toolfool
Well-known member
If you'd like to read : http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php .
And here's where I purchased my last DC system and will be purchasing my next one : https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/ .
And here's where I purchased my last DC system and will be purchasing my next one : https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/ .
DavidR8
Well-known member
@fourbyford thank you for your expansive post. Very informative.
Aside from American Filter Fabric where else can these bags be purchased?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Aside from American Filter Fabric where else can these bags be purchased?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
fourbyford
Well-known member
woodworker.com ...
I just checked and they have at least 1 size in stock... lol
Oops... just re-looked at that listing... looks like that bag may be for the 1hp "floor crawler" DC.
I just went on the site and typed in "dust collection"
...D
Sent from my SM-N960U using The Garage Journal mobile app
I just checked and they have at least 1 size in stock... lol
Oops... just re-looked at that listing... looks like that bag may be for the 1hp "floor crawler" DC.
I just went on the site and typed in "dust collection"
...D
Sent from my SM-N960U using The Garage Journal mobile app
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Lynden
Well-known member
Or buy a quieter shop vacuum and put it on a cart with a Dust Deputy. The Fein Turbo I shown in the Amazon link below has a 66 dB noise level.
https://www.woodtalkonline.com/uplo...humb.jpg.2f03baa38416e0f74276129f8bf3447e.jpg
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K69ILFQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20
DavidR8
Well-known member
woodworker.com ...
I just checked and they have at least 1 size in stock... lol
Oops... just re-looked at that listing... looks like that bag may be for the 1hp "floor crawler" DC.
I just went on the site and typed in "dust collection"
...D
Sent from my SM-N960U using The Garage Journal mobile app
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
niget2002
Well-known member
Thank-you for that information.
I'll have to take a look at those filters unless I decide to push the exhaust outside.
fourbyford
Well-known member
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K69ILFQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20[/QUOTE]
I own a Fein shop vac and they're, no doubt, "fine" machines. But, last I knew, you could buy a 1 hp dust collector for about the same money... relatively quiet and moves a LOT more air.
...D
I own a Fein shop vac and they're, no doubt, "fine" machines. But, last I knew, you could buy a 1 hp dust collector for about the same money... relatively quiet and moves a LOT more air.
...D
Fourbyford thank you for the in depth responses, it is greatly appreciated and educational. I just recently learned how inefficient my dust collector really is, I also recently learned that I have problems with my lungs ( never smoked and not a great time for lung disease) I recently moved my mitre saw station to the basement because I was running out of room in the garage. My wife is all for the wood shop in the basement but I told her I need better dust control. Venting it outside might be a possibility but I'd like to make it a last resort especially with Wisconsin winters. I'm definitely interested in where I could possibly buy one of those bags. I'm considering buying a different collector but in the meantime want to make my current one work better. On a side note my wife's uncle has his own furniture/ cabinet shop. His old shop was 2-3000 sq feet and he had very poor dust collection and worked there 6-7 days a week. I have never seen anything so dusty in my life. I have often worried about his lungs. One time he cleaned the shop out with leaf blowers and the fire department showed up because people thought it was on fire, true story. His dust collection system was poorly laid out and was definitely inefficient and only catching the big shavings
fourbyford
Well-known member
Check woodworker.com
"dust collection" in the search bar. Bags will be listed by diameter.
Depending on your DC, you'll need 2 bags, an upper and a lower... or, a heavy plastic bag could replace the lower bag... keeping in mind that will reduce your filter media by 50% (some exceptions apply)
Your story about the fire response definitely made me laugh!
...D
"dust collection" in the search bar. Bags will be listed by diameter.
Depending on your DC, you'll need 2 bags, an upper and a lower... or, a heavy plastic bag could replace the lower bag... keeping in mind that will reduce your filter media by 50% (some exceptions apply)
Your story about the fire response definitely made me laugh!
...D
Don1357
Well-known member
Or don't do the bags which will fail to filter the really damaging fine dust anyways and vent outside.
This will also fix the pressure loss from running a cyclone by removing the back pressure from running a filter, no matter how big.
fourbyford
Well-known member
In our testing of the bags from AFF, there is virtually no resistance... their term for the bags is "transparent"... and, based on evidence, I'd have to agree.
I'd submit that even if you were to vent your dust collector outside, you'd still be susceptible to micro-fine particles because its just not possible to capture 100% of dust from any machine.
One of my shops is located within a city limit. If I were to vent outside, I'd be blowing debris into neighboring properties. Probably not the best way to make friends. If you want to blow sawdust and chips out the back of your shop... its your choice.
OP asked for suggestions to improve his dust collection... I simply offered mine.
...D
I'd submit that even if you were to vent your dust collector outside, you'd still be susceptible to micro-fine particles because its just not possible to capture 100% of dust from any machine.
One of my shops is located within a city limit. If I were to vent outside, I'd be blowing debris into neighboring properties. Probably not the best way to make friends. If you want to blow sawdust and chips out the back of your shop... its your choice.
OP asked for suggestions to improve his dust collection... I simply offered mine.
...D
fourbyford
Well-known member
Yes, the bags sold by woodworker.com are made by American Fabric Filter company.
You're right... value for money is good!
...D
You're right... value for money is good!
...D
Don1357
Well-known member
One of the first tests for air quality is to test as you turn your dust collector on. Every one venting indoors fail the second the switch turns on because the initial pressure sends the sub micron particles resting on the filters into the air. No excuse to double down on fail by adding even more of those to the air.
You need about 1,000CFM at the machine end in order to stand a chance to collect that fine dust. You then need a well thought out design to apply that 1,000CFM at the machine end so it actually gets the fine dust. From there run it through a cyclone to pick up the actual sawdust and chips, then vent it outside. This will keep your lung capacity loss to a minimum.
fourbyford
Well-known member
So... how do I collect all particles from my chop saw?
I have the factory supplied dust port for my Delta Unisaw... how do I get it to collect every bit of dust from the blade? Even with an overarm blade cover... dust escapes.
My 20" planer has the factory supplied dust hood... still not 100%.
My DC is 1,600 cfm, dedicated ducting.
If ducting outside works for you, that's cool. But, I stand by my position that 100% collection isn't a realistic expectation.
Woodworking, as well as any number of other activities, comes with a set of risks. I, for one, am well aware of those risks but choose to participate anyway. Like you, I do my best to keep those risks to a minimum.
...D
I have the factory supplied dust port for my Delta Unisaw... how do I get it to collect every bit of dust from the blade? Even with an overarm blade cover... dust escapes.
My 20" planer has the factory supplied dust hood... still not 100%.
My DC is 1,600 cfm, dedicated ducting.
If ducting outside works for you, that's cool. But, I stand by my position that 100% collection isn't a realistic expectation.
Woodworking, as well as any number of other activities, comes with a set of risks. I, for one, am well aware of those risks but choose to participate anyway. Like you, I do my best to keep those risks to a minimum.
...D
Lynden
Well-known member
I assumed from bradpac's question that he didn't have any machines that produce large chips and a lot of dust (large table saw, planer, jointer, lathe, stationary sander, shaper, etc.). If this is the case, then all he needs is a good shop vacuum and a dust deputy to collect dust from his ROS, small table saw, router, bandsaw, drill press, etc. His problem is his shop vacuum is too loud and a Fein vacuum is a good solution.
https://perfectcutsandmiters.com/dust-control/quiet-shop-vac/
