The VISES of Garage Journal

[Shiftless]

FYI, Auction down south.
"100 plus vises: including 8 1/4" Columbian vise, 8" Reed vise on stand, 6" Reed vise, several other 6"-8" vises, table top & post vises, some with chain drive."
https://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/3508844.html

Lucky for me that it’s 2500 miles away or I’d be sorely tempted to break my self imposed estate sale quarantine restrictions.

 

[budget76]

Lucky for me that it’s 2500 miles away or I’d be sorely tempted to break my self imposed estate sale quarantine restrictions.

they're already on a pallet. remote bidding??

 

[MayerMR]

I missed aiding in the posts on the 22 and 23 swivel pins for the Prentiss's. I was working with the guy Vise was talking about and want to share the drawing for the pin. The difference I noticed between the 21 to 18 pin is the angle went from 3 deg/side to 2-1/2 deg/side. Smitty your drawing is close and should work fine, this drawing is more for machinists.

This is an original Prentiss 22 pin, the pin is 2 3/8” long overall..


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Either of you fine gentlemen have the drawing for the pin on the little 1 3/4" jeweler's vise, by chance?

 

[Smitty]

Mayer
I’ve yet to buy a jewelers vise that had the original pin so I would be hesitant to give any dimensions. I’ve made my own and they turned out fairly well. There’s a pic of it on page 4113.

 

[davethorik]

Came across a neat little vise today.
Massey Vise Co. "Lightning Grip" no. 10
2.5" jaws, opens 3", weighs 21 lbs.

These vises use a cam and rack system to tighten vs a conventional screw, which gives them a handy quick release feature. It fuctions very smoothly. Sadly, it is missing the thru-bench swivel hardware.

I also own a slightly larger 3.5" no. 11, as well as a 9" woodworking version no. 17, need to get pics together.

 

[KMScott]

Either of you fine gentlemen have the drawing for the pin on the little 1 3/4" jeweler's vise, by chance?

Here ya go Mayer. This is my working drawing, I never finished the drawing. Note how I held the small pins. The 1-3/4 and 2" are different but did not test the pins on many of these vises. I only own the 2". Check your major diameter and see if it is smaller just by a little from my drawing's dimension.

 

[rikyric]

Quick question, I am looking at a record vise. It says Made in England on the side. But it looks fairly new. Are all the ones that have "Made in England" the good ones?

 

[tool_scrounge]

Quick question, I am looking at a record vise. It says Made in England on the side. But it looks fairly new. Are all the ones that have "Made in England" the good ones?

I thought the "made in England " was the better made earlier ones. I bought a "Sheffield England " labeled vise used 10+ years ago and it was of marginal quality.

 

[dannyr]

I thought the "made in England " was the better made earlier ones. I bought a "Sheffield England " labeled vise used 10+ years ago and it was of marginal quality.

Record stopped being 'the old Record' when it was sold to Swedish and US operations many years ago - they sold all the advanced casting equipment for cast iron, steel vises and other tools well before 2000.

 

[dannyr]

Nice smaller Massey, DaveTh - I have only seen the English version (Entwistle and Kenyon) in the larger size.

 

[macgee]

Here ya go Mayer. This is my working drawing, I never finished the drawing. Note how I held the small pins. The 1-3/4 and 2" are different but did not test the pins on many of these vises. I only own the 2". Check your major diameter and see if it is smaller just by a little from my drawing's dimension.

Awesome, Thanks so much! Hope all is well on the island.

I'll go ahead and make one on my lathe. The 3 degree was the key info.

You saved me from having to make a male casting mold of the female hole in the vise to measure.

This is my mini Prentiss vise needing a pin.

 

[davethorik]

Nice smaller Massey, DaveTh - I have only seen the English version (Entwistle and Kenyon) in the larger size.

Hi danny, hoping you would see this. It was advertised as a larger size where i found it, so i thought it was the same as my 3.5" version. Couldn't really judge the size in the pix. What a pleasant surprise to find it was actually smaller.

What really has me at a loss, this vise is assembled with top and bottom halves backwards, so the slide support is protruding in the rear. Exactly like my 3.5" version, now I'm wondering if there is a reason for this.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Hi danny, hoping you would see this. It was advertised as a larger size where i found it, so i thought it was the same as my 3.5" version. Couldn't really judge the size in the pix. What a pleasant surprise to find it was actually smaller.

What really has me at a loss, this vise is assembled with top and bottom halves backwards, so the slide support is protruding in the rear. Exactly like my 3.5" version, now I'm wondering if there is a reason for this.

This is my 4.5" Massey's E&K Lightning Grip. I have the swivel bolt and wing nut for it, just didn't photo them... I can get a photo if that would be helpful.

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[Andy FitzGibbon]

I posted these images in a discussion on Practical Machinist about whether Hollands did Reed's foundry work. They come from the 1921 Sanborn fire insurance maps of Erie, PA. The cropped screen shots aren't the greatest quality... I can email better resolution copies if anybody wants them. I've been meaning to go through other years of Sanborn maps to see how things evolved, but haven't had time as of yet.

Reed was located on W. 8th St. (same location today) and Hollands was on E. 18th St. Reed was obviously a much larger operation. They had their own water tower and power plant. No foundry is listed at either location, though, so both must have farmed the casting work out somewhere. The insurance maps are very detailed when it comes to describing anything that could potentially cause a fire, so if there was a foundry on either site it would have been mentioned. It's possible that one of the companies had an off-site foundry, under a different name, but establishing that connection would require a search of business records.

Erie Tool Works was the smallest of the three, and was located on the corner of E. 11th and French Streets. No mention of vises in their index listing for the 1921 map (unlike Reed and Hollands).

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[Vise]

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. I think there is speculation that Hollands did the castings for Reed, but I haven't seen anything definitive. Certainly there are design similarities and a clear geographical overlap.

 

[Fierljeppen]

I posted these images in a discussion on Practical Machinist about whether Hollands did Reed's foundry work. They come from the 1921 Sanborn fire insurance maps of Erie, PA. The cropped screen shots aren't the greatest quality... I can email better resolution copies if anybody wants them. I've been meaning to go through other years of Sanborn maps to see how things evolved, but haven't had time as of yet.

Reed was located on W. 8th St. (same location today) and Hollands was on E. 18th St. Reed was obviously a much larger operation. They had their own water tower and power plant. No foundry is listed at either location, though, so both must have farmed the casting work out somewhere. The insurance maps are very detailed when it comes to describing anything that could potentially cause a fire, so if there was a foundry on either site it would have been mentioned. It's possible that one of the companies had an off-site foundry, under a different name, but establishing that connection would require a search of business records.

Erie Tool Works was the smallest of the three, and was located on the corner of E. 11th and French Streets. No mention of vises in their index listing for the 1921 map (unlike Reed and Hollands).

Excellent detective work! I just recently discovered that the old Sanborn Fire Insurance maps are available for download at the Library of Congress website.

There's so much credible information there for anyone who is searching for that particular data, regarding old American Mfg. companies.

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. I think there is speculation that Hollands did the castings for Reed, but I haven't seen anything definitive. Certainly there are design similarities and a clear geographical overlap.

I completely agree! You need to throw Yost Mfg. in the mix with Reed and Hollands as well.

Anyone can come up with a plausible theory, but without any printed evidence, it's nothing more than a speculative story.

 

[dannyr]

Hi danny, hoping you would see this. It was advertised as a larger size where i found it, so i thought it was the same as my 3.5" version. Couldn't really judge the size in the pix. What a pleasant surprise to find it was actually smaller.

What really has me at a loss, this vise is assembled with top and bottom halves backwards, so the slide support is protruding in the rear. Exactly like my 3.5" version, now I'm wondering if there is a reason for this.

I have an E&K as discussed, I also have a photo of the one in the local museum - both have the base with the slide support as it should be. The one in the museum has the swivel bolt - mine doesn't, but is drilled/threaded for the bolt - however although both these look almost identical to yours, in both the bottom section has 'ears' with bolt holes through so can be either fixed or swivel.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Excellent detective work! I just recently discovered that the old Sanborn Fire Insurance maps are available for download at the Library of Congress website.

There's so much credible information there for anyone who is searching for that particular data, regarding old American Mfg. companies.



I completely agree! You need to throw Yost Mfg. in the mix with Reed and Hollands as well.

Anyone can come up with a plausible theory, but without any printed evidence, it's nothing more than a speculative story.

Here is Yost in 1912. They didn't have a foundry, either, but were situated right next to the William H. Page Boiler Company, who did.

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[akasrick]

I posted these images in a discussion on Practical Machinist about whether Hollands did Reed's foundry work. They come from the 1921 Sanborn fire insurance maps of Erie, PA. The cropped screen shots aren't the greatest quality... I can email better resolution copies if anybody wants them. I've been meaning to go through other years of Sanborn maps to see how things evolved, but haven't had time as of yet.


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All three, Hollands, Reed and Erie share a foundry (?) mark.
Looks like 4 square in a square

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6761443&postcount=4958

akasrick

 

[Fierljeppen]

All three, Hollands, Reed and Erie share a foundry (?) mark.
Looks like 4 square in a square

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6761443&postcount=4958

akasrick

Founders marks, why didn't I think of that?

Thanks for the lead, I'm going to start another vise puzzle based on that scenario.

 

[rikyric]

Record stopped being 'the old Record' when it was sold to Swedish and US operations many years ago - they sold all the advanced casting equipment for cast iron, steel vises and other tools well before 2000.

Hey Danny, thanks for the response. Is it safe to say if the Casting has "Made in England" that these are pre "Irwin"

 

[dannyr]

Sorry riky - I just don't know what qualifies as 'made in' eg if the parts were bought in from anywhere and assembled - world manufacturing has such long production lines -- see electronic devices.

Also there are plenty of jobbing foundries left in England - just not the old Record Sheffield.

many years ago I used to have Record contacts but no more

 

[rikyric]

Ah I see, hmm I’ll try to post a pic to see what others might say.

 

[Smitty]

I spent the weekend watching football and working on my Coachmakers collection. Being a cabinetmaker I really have a soft spot for these vises. Left to right. Athol 424 1/2, Columbian 224 1/2, Prentiss 26, Prentiss 59, Prentiss 99 and a Starrett 424 1/2.


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[Charles Waugh]

Smitty,
I, too, am a cabinet/furniture maker and that line up is gorgeous.

And I know that in your busy holiday season you accidentally missed my birthday last Sunday, but I'm not upset at all - just send along any one of those and all will be fine.
: - )

 

[macgee]

Smitty,

I'm really liking the Athol 424-1/2 and Starrett with replaceable jaws, those are awesome and would be very proud if I had either one in my shop.

Your others are also impressive with a nod towards the Prentiss 99 swivel jaw.

 

[macgee]

I took this picture of my lovable mini Brown & Sharpe #752 vise to help show the scale of the screwdriver I made for myself. I had this really nice 1/8th (3mm) hollow ground slotted tip blade used by watchmakers (clocks) sitting in my drawer waiting for a handle (similar to a Starrett) to appear that works for it's unusual large shaft size (.184") but after three years of sitting, it was either toss or make one. So I made one and is perfect for the little sotted fasteners on vises like this. I also ended up making a 4mm version from a 8" long Wera that I cut down.

The B&S 752 vise (7/8" Jaw Width) is so useful and practical, I use it all the time for small projects on my mill and DP. It's a keeper.

 

[Smitty]

Charles
I just PM’d you the tracking number.
macgee
Good eye on the athol, that’s a really rare vise. The quick release is complete and still functions. The Starrett is the beast of the bunch and weighs in at 100 lbs. On a side note I was totally impressed with how clean your Prentiss jewelers vise was. I saved the pic to files.

 

[macgee]

Charles

macgee
Good eye on the athol, that’s a really rare vise. The quick real release is complete and still functions. The Starrett is the beast of the bunch and weighs in at 100 lbs. On a side note I was totally impressed with how clean your Prentiss jewelers vise was. I saved the pic to files.

What does the brass tag below the model # on the Athol say?

I would agree its a very rare vise.

 

[Smitty]

It’s a property tag, if anybody has any ideas on what company might have marked it I’d love to hear them.The vise came from Northern California.
.


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[Vise]

Those are beautiful coachmakers vises Smitty. An admirable collection.

 

[Smitty]

Thanks Vise. I’ve always got an eye out for them but they don’t seem to come up very often.

 

[Shiftless]

Smitty:
Thanks for posting those beautiful pics. I’ve got lots of vises but not a single coach maker’s.
That brass tag is certainly a mystery.

 

[sch]

Sch...I’ve freed up numerous Prentiss swivel jaws and here’s a few tips that might help. First off I’ll never hit the jaw towers. I always use blocks of wood and tap at the back. I’ll give it a good ten hits and then I’ll do the same from the other side. I’ll keep alternating until I can get some movement. If I can get the jaw to move 1/16 I know I’m going to win the battle. The most important thing is not to damage the jaw itself, slow and steady wins the race. Good luck, here’s a pic of a 22 like yours.


I let the PVC 22 sit for a few days, possibly giving PB Blaster time to work, then applied the Smitty method. Swivel jaw came free in about 3 minutes. 4lb hammer, block of 2x4, a little help from Desmond Stephens. As easy as anything I've done with a vise.

CHARLES WAUGH: Thanks for the pics of the American Scale swiveler. I love seeing the different designs the vise makers came up with.

 

[Smitty]

Shift
Hopefully somebody will recognize the markings.
SCH
I’m glad that worked out for you, I look forward to seeing pics of the vise when you’re done with it.

 

[sch]

The Prentiss 22 is showing a "12" stamp under the swivel jaw. Perhaps that's for a 1912 manufacturing date?

 

[Outlawmws]

you will probably find another 12 on the main body - match assembly numbers...

 

[va.grouseman]

you will probably find another 12 on the main body - match assembly numbers...

witness.

 

[Smitty]

I’ve given quite a bit of thought about what these numbers could mean. My theory is that these are simple batch numbers. I believe that back in the day a technician would gather the parts for any given vise and grind and file them into good working order. Once the vise was complete he would simply stamp the vise with the next number in line before sending the vise off to be painted or plated. Once the vises were painted they could be easily re assembled using the stamped numbers with no fit or finish required. I have quite a few Prentiss vises and the numbers rarely match up for any given vise. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Jnmario7697]

Hi everyone. Just joined a couple hours ago. Here are a few pics. Parker 107, Cole Tools rotating vise, and a mystery vise that I cannot for the life of me identify. It is a quick release vise. Glad to be here, enjoy the pics.