Best way to tackle rust- converter, encapsolator, both?

[frankd]

Just picked up a used polaris rzr and unfortunately it's got a bit more frame rust than I was expecting. I want to address it now before it gets any worse. The frame components are mostly square steel tube that was painted black. Rust appears to be surface rust but it's significant in some spots. I don't see anything that is bad enough to affect the structural integrity of the vehicle.
I'm looking for something easy to use with as little prep as possible. I don't really care how it looks as the rusty components aren't really visible.

I was thinking of a rust converter on the bad spots followed by and encapsolator and then paint...or maybe bed liner or something durable like that. Is that overkill?

Any tips, product recommendations, etc would be appreciated.

 

[bdymnjm]

I have always said sand blast then self etch or epoxy primer is best. Other less good ways are grind or sand then rusty metal primer. Grind or sand then navel jelly type rust remover then clean and prime. Ospho is supposed to work too but can't find around my area to try. I tried rust convertor and epoxy prime this summer on a Ford bed and it was showing in a week. If you don't care too much just grind sand rusty metal prime and black enamel. You can always hit it again in the future.

 

[frankd]

Thanks for the reply. I was really hoping the rust converter followed by primer would work just because there's not much prep.
Anyone have success with por15? Or rust-oleum rust reformer?

 

[Jagmandave]

POR is great stuff, and it really works. Wire brush off all the loose stuff and paint it on - done.

 

[matt_i]

If you don't care how it looks then I would brush on Fluid Film

Inside boxed sections you need a product that's more "runny" to be able to coat more fully and in a place a brush can't reach.

I have used LPS-2 and LPS-3 with success. Also its possible tp spray fluid film with a long wand.

This process isn't as permanent as paint (has to be redone annually) but also requires zero prep.

 

[NYBODYMAN]

POR is great stuff, and it really works. Wire brush off all the loose stuff and paint it on - done.

I always see a lot of negative comments about POR-15.What people don't realize is that POR stands for Paint Over Rust. People clean up too much of the rust and then put it on. Not what is supposed to be done.

 

[frankd]

If you don't care how it looks then I would brush on Fluid Film

Inside boxed sections you need a product that's more "runny" to be able to coat more fully and in a place a brush can't reach.

I have used LPS-2 and LPS-3 with success. Also its possible tp spray fluid film with a long wand.

This process isn't as permanent as paint (has to be redone annually) but also requires zero prep.

Ive used fluid film on equipment that I was putting into storage and didn't plan on using for a while. But I will be using the rzr pretty regularly, riding through mud/water, washing it, etc. I'm worried that the fluid film won't last too long. If I could get a year out of it I'd be happy.

 

[frankd]

POR is great stuff, and it really works. Wire brush off all the loose stuff and paint it on - done.

Would the POR also adhere to paint? The part of the square tubing facing th ground had most of the paint scraped off and that's where the rust is. The rest of the tubing still has paint on it. Think POR 15 would still work well in that case? Seems like the quickest/easiest option at this point.

My other though was to use a rust converter and follow up with some black paint

 

[joe_padavano]

Look, any "paint-on" solution will not solve the basic problem. And common sense should tell you that if there's rust under the current paint, painting POR over that paint isn't going to do anything. The right way to fix this is sandblast and epoxy primer. Anything else is half-fast.

 

[78SC4X4]

Rust Converter is typically applied to the rust you just can’t remove. It works best with rust that is worse than just a surface discoloration. Rust Converter needs the rust to work; it’s like a 2 part system with the rust acting as the activator. If you were to apply the converter to bare metal it would have barely any affect, and would not cure properly. When applied over actual rust it reacts with it, converting it into a hard black polymeric paintable material. The converter however is not UV stable, and is not meant to be a top coat, it’s more like a paintable primer. You can use nearly any primer or paint over the top of rust after applying the Rust Converter. The best thing to apply though, to really guard against rust coming back, is Rust Encapsulator.


Rust Encapsulator can be applied over lightly rusted metal, or even clean bare metal, and seals it from moisture and corrosion. Plus, any rust still under it is encapsulated and stopped from spreading. The Rust Encapsulator should be the last step in your rust neutralization/removal work before starting with primer, paint and the rest of the finishing process.

So there is the four-step process for fighting rust: 1) Chemical and mechanical stripping to remove the rust 2) Rust Converter to neutralize and convert the rust into a paintable surface 3) Rust Encapsulator to surround and seal any rust that is left and keep it from coming back 4) Prime and paint for long lasting rust proof and cosmetic purposes.

Or you can sandblast and epoxy primer.............

 

[bdymnjm]

If you like fluid film you might consider Woolwax. It comes in black too! It claims to be more resistant to washing off. I just bought a can to try from kellsports??? on ebay, came in 2 days shipping. I bought a needle scaler for less than 20 on ebay this past summer and it helps knock off rust scale quickly. I'm finding for most things keeping the fluid film on works great to preserve them.

 

[frankd]

Look, any "paint-on" solution will not solve the basic problem. And common sense should tell you that if there's rust under the current paint, painting POR over that paint isn't going to do anything. The right way to fix this is sandblast and epoxy primer. Anything else is half-fast.

I get what you're saying and agree that your method is the correct way to do it but i'm not interested in taking apart this whole machine to do some sort of restoration project. I don't want to spend a ton of time bringing this thing down to bare metal and repainting. This rzr is going to be ridden on bumpy logging trails with rocks, branches and tree stumps scraping along the bottom of it. Anything I do it going to probably going to last a season or 2 anyway. My primary interest is to stop the rust from getting worse.

 

[Thescreensavers]

For inside the frame, use eastwoods frame coating

 

[frankd]

For inside the frame, use eastwoods frame coating

When you say inside the frame. Do you mean the inside the small holes drilled into the box frame?

 

[FryZ]

I’ve had this issue with a few atvs. The bottom of the frame takes a beating from sticks, rocks, etc. I’ve always just wire brushed/sanded off the worst of it, spray a rust reformer then use oil based brush on black rustoleum. Lasts a good while and easy to touch up. No point in going all out making it showroom it’s just going to get beat up again riding. JMO

 

[Jagmandave]

Would the POR also adhere to paint? The part of the square tubing facing th ground had most of the paint scraped off and that's where the rust is. The rest of the tubing still has paint on it. Think POR 15 would still work well in that case? Seems like the quickest/easiest option at this point.

Yes, just use a scotchbrite pad to key the paint and the POR will stick to it just fine. Don't go crazy getting the rust off, just knock the loose stuff off and make sure it's clean - no oil or grease. I use lacquer thinner to wipe it down before painting.

Once thoroughly cured out, POR is very tough stuff.

 

[frankd]

I appreciate all the replies. Think the POR 15 appears to be exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Youngandfree]

I appreciate all the replies. Think the POR 15 appears to be exactly what I'm looking for.

Check out Corroseal also. From what I recall in my research a while back, POR requires top coating with their product. Corroseal seems a bit more user friendly regarding what can be used as a topcoat. I looked into them last year when trying to decide how to freshen up an old trailer.

 

[walrus]

Master series Silver paint is great stuff for what you are doing.

 

[frankd]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Never knew there were so many options. Leaning towards either por15 or fryz recommendation or rust reformer topped with oil paint.

 

[brownsmustang]

Treat it with phosphoric acid, then master series primer.

 

[Moss]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Never knew there were so many options. Leaning towards either por15 or fryz recommendation or rust reformer topped with oil paint.

Just use por15, chassis saver or any of those moisture cured urethanes they will be perfectly fine to slow down the rust without taking the entire damn thing apart and restoring it when you don't need or want to.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Earp69]

I spent days prepping a frame and covered with chassis saver. While it held up great short term, it was not worth it long term. After 5 years I think it honestly made the rust worse.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[santagary]

Mustie 1 on You Tube wire brushes, then sprays on chain saw bar oil on all internal and external rusted areas then takes it for a ride down some dusty roads and has done this for years with great and inexpensive results...look him up...he lives in the heavily salted NE.

 

[machsnell]

Noxudol

Better than fluid film. Tested over 3 years under a truck in Minnesota or something versus several undercoating options. As I recall it beat all the options by a decent margin.

Anyway there was a post about it a year or two ago

Since then I have been coating undersides of truck beds and plow trucks etc.

Just coated two beds today.

It is tough almost like a combo of wax and a 2 part truck bed liner.

Tough but soft if that makes sense.

Love it.

And you can get in clear or black (like a converter) in spray or aerosol.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[PFSard]

Here's another piece of information that may help someone researching a similar problem.

 

[bbxlr8]

I have been into car restoration for 40y or so. I have used the POR many times & it is not all it is cracked up to be.
& DON'T get it on you - your skin will be coming off with it instead of cleaning. Works great only sometimes, I avoid now and have not used in last decade.

I am a big fan of the Eastwood products FWIW

No direct experience but a lot of the jeep folks like Noxudol

 

[BaMaDuDe87]

Just throwing another option out there I just heard of a few days ago…Dupli-Color RBG100. Seems to be similar to POR-15, I believe.

 

[olytdi]

Fluid Film/Wool Wax. That's what it's made for.

 

[vwpieces]

Rustbullet and MasterSeries are better products than POR15. POR don't well in sunlight as the other 2 are UV resistant. I have had sheets of POR peel away from blasted surfaces. Silver is also a better product from POR than the Black. For Master Series the Silver is the real base rust protective coating, the other Blacks are meant to be used over the silver but the silver can be used alone and don't care about sunlight.
I also live in a Humid climate and getting any of the above to cure with out pin bubbles is hard. All are Moisture cured Urethanes.
I stopped using POR products about 10 years ago. Tried RustBullet and it is a better product but the MasterSeries beats them both hands down.

 

[frankd]

Looks like this thread came back from the dead. Lots of great information here though. I ended up using a few different methods depending on how bad the rust was.
I used rustoleum automotive rust reformer on the really rusty spots. I didn't love that product. It didn't seem to work as it said it would. It left what felt like a shiny plastic film on the metal. I scuffed it up after it dried and painted over with rustoleum paint.
For the metal that wasn't too rusty, I painted with Rustoleum rusty metal primer, followed by a coat of rustoleum paint.
And for hard to reach spaces I used either Fluid Film or WD-40's version of fluid film.