Tools of Japan

[toddmorr]

i almost wish a Koken *** would fail so someone could test the warranty, either with Palmac or contacting KokenUSA offices. kinda doubt it's as easy as Tekton or others.

i was railing on a subaru bushing bolt the other day with a cheater pipe and deliberately switched from my long Koken 3/8 to a regular Tekton 3/8 because I figured it would fail, which it soon did. Had to be well over 200 lbs ft. on it.

 

[noid]

i almost wish a Koken *** would fail so someone could test the warranty, either with Palmac or contacting KokenUSA offices. kinda doubt it's as easy as Tekton or others.

i was railing on a subaru bushing bolt the other day with a cheater pipe and deliberately switched from my long Koken 3/8 to a regular Tekton 3/8 because I figured it would fail, which it soon did. Had to be well over 200 lbs ft. on it.

Basic material science applies; there is nothing any brand can do given current form factor to increase the strength of a 3/8 past a certain point.

The only real way to increase strength is by changing the material type.

It would be interesting to see someone test a stainless steel and titanium ratchet to failure.

 

[M6erfan]

i almost wish a Koken *** would fail so someone could test the warranty, either with Palmac or contacting KokenUSA offices. kinda doubt it's as easy as Tekton or others.

i was railing on a subaru bushing bolt the other day with a cheater pipe and deliberately switched from my long Koken 3/8 to a regular Tekton 3/8 because I figured it would fail, which it soon did. Had to be well over 200 lbs ft. on it.

What part of the ratchet failed?

Why didn't you try 1/2" or 3/4" drive?

 

[M6erfan]

Basic material science applies; there is nothing any brand can do given current form factor to increase the strength of a 3/8 past a certain point.

The only real way to increase strength is by changing the material type.

It would be interesting to see someone test a stainless steel and titanium ratchet to failure.

Or increase mass (more material)

 

[noid]

Or increase mass (more material)

"... given current form factor"

 

[M6erfan]

"... given current form factor"

Yeah, I took it in a general sense, the form factor of a ratchet wrench, which of course varies wildly. The only design constraint, form factor wise, of a ratchet wrench is the connection point (anvil).

 

[Ralf11]

Basic material science applies; there is nothing any brand can do given current form factor to increase the strength of a 3/8 past a certain point.

The only real way to increase strength is by changing the material type.

It would be interesting to see someone test a stainless steel and titanium ratchet to failure.

Ko-ken has a nice titanium ratchet. LMK how it turns out...

 

[noid]

Yeah, I took it in a general sense, the form factor of a ratchet wrench, which of course varies wildly. The only design constraint, form factor wise, of a ratchet wrench is the connection point (anvil).

I wonder what grade of steel they use for the anvil/gear part. In every "how its made" video i've seen, they only show the body of the ratchet being forged and then magically they have a bin of anvils to mate together to the body.

 

[toddmorr]

What part of the ratchet failed?

Why didn't you try 1/2" or 3/4" drive?

here's a shot, which of course was sent to tekton. As expected they sent out a replacement.

a 1/2 didn't fit. As it was, had to use a really short Astro 19mm socket with 3/8 ratchet and 3 ft cheater. Couldn't get enough leverage on a box end wrench. Guess if I had a really short 1/2 19mm socket that might have worked. Didn't want to break my XXL DBE ratcheting wrench (carlyle). So the Tekton ratchet was the sacrifice. honestly had to be 300 lbs+ on that tekton.

 

[M6erfan]

here's a shot, which of course was sent to tekton. As expected they sent out a replacement.

a 1/2 didn't fit. As it was, had to use a really short Astro 19mm socket with 3/8 ratchet and 3 ft cheater. Couldn't get enough leverage on a box end wrench. Guess if I had a really short 1/2 19mm socket that might have worked. Didn't want to break my XXL DBE ratcheting wrench (carlyle). So the Tekton ratchet was the sacrifice. honestly had to be 300 lbs+ on that tekton.

OK, so it was a flex, can't say I'm surprised. Also not surprised that Tekton warranty was fast and painless. Is the ratchet that broke one of their newer 90t?

 

[toddmorr]

OK, so it was a flex, can't say I'm surprised. Also not surprised that Tekton warranty was fast and painless. Is the ratchet that broke one of their newer 90t?

indeed it was. generally a fine ratchet and strong price performer, although i like my comfort grip ones better.

 

[16again]

Mine arrived! Have not used it yet. That said, I can tell you it’s just like all my other KOKEN Zeal ratchets. No real noticeable back drag at all...



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[General Geoff]

Ko-ken has a nice titanium ratchet. LMK how it turns out...

Titanium alloys are weaker than most steel for a given volume. They're lighter and non-ferrous but are only stronger by mass, not volume.

 

[M6erfan]

Titanium alloys are weaker than most steel for a given volume. They're lighter and non-ferrous but are only stronger by mass, not volume.

Yep^

 

[Flared Base]

Titanium alloys are weaker than most steel for a given volume. They're lighter and non-ferrous but are only stronger by mass, not volume.

That is the general rule of thumb in for structural components in commercial aerospace. Material selection generally goes Al plate->casting->forging->Ti plate->casting->forging->Steel plate->casting->forging. Some of the decision process is economics, some is properties. But if you need the most strength and you are stuck within a certain envelope, you end up with steel. Hence many landing gear components on wide body aircraft are 300M despite the weight penalty of being ferrous.

 

[eas311]

I have a question for any Koken experts out there. I purchased a few nut grip sockets off eBay to expand my assortment. They arrived today, and I immediately noticed one of them looked different. The finish was not very good (with a few small nicks), has a much higher polish and different markings.

All of my previous Koken sockets were stamped Made in Japan with a date code (i.e. 169, presumably September 2016). The odd one just says Japan and has what looks like 3K for a date code. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but to me this one socket looks like a factory second (or maybe even a knockoff?). Everything else I own from Koken has a flawless finish.

Anyone out there have further insight? I took a picture of a socket I previously owned (17mm) and the one that's suspect is the 19mm.

Thanks!

 

[noid]

I have a question for any Koken experts out there. I purchased a few nut grip sockets off eBay to expand my assortment. They arrived today, and I immediately noticed one of them looked different. The finish was not very good (with a few small nicks), has a much higher polish and different markings.

All of my previous Koken sockets were stamped Made in Japan with a date code (i.e. 169, presumably September 2016). The odd one just says Japan and has what looks like 3K for a date code. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but to me this one socket looks like a factory second (or maybe even a knockoff?). Everything else I own from Koken has a flawless finish.

Anyone out there have further insight? I took a picture of a socket I previously owned (17mm) and the one that's suspect is the 19mm.

Thanks!

Knock-offs exist of almost everything in the world.

There was a documentary that showed that even in secured supply chains like the US military, there have been counterfeit parts found in operation and on shelves for all sorts of parts.

 

[eas311]

Knock-offs exist of almost everything in the world.

There was a documentary that showed that even in secured supply chains like the US military, there have been counterfeit parts found in operation and on shelves for all sorts of parts.

100% agree. I decided to check some dimensions with my Mitutoyo calipers to compare against the Koken spec sheet, and now I'm even more suspect. Although I would expect some manufacturing variation vs the stated specs, I can point to more than a half dozen small construction differences between the 19mm and all of my other nut grip sockets.

Just seems odd to me, so I'm going to reach out to the eBay seller I purchased from.

 

[Qualitytools]

^ I would be Leary of an eBay seller.

 

[eas311]

^ I would be Leary of an eBay seller.

Agreed, although I purchased from a long term eBay seller with exceptionally strong feedback which should carry some weight.

 

[measuredtwice]

I think it's real. It looks like the 3k wasn't turned down as much after forging. Maybe it was so on spec that it didn't need to be turned down as much.

 

[macgee]

Everything else I own from Koken has a flawless finish.

Anyone out there have further insight? I took a picture of a socket I previously owned (17mm) and the one that's suspect is the 19mm.

Thanks!

If you're unhappy, maybe suspect counterfeit or feel they're rejects or something then just return them. Contact the seller, tell him what you're observing and ask if you can return them? If he's an upstanding seller then he'll most likely take care of you and most likely no questions asked. He may not even be aware it or they could have been old stock for another market?

If no one here in this thread is recognizing them or says its normal, then that could be a red flag? People (GJ memebers) here live and breathe Koken and been buying them for ages.

 

[shemazar]

I have a question for any Koken experts out there. I purchased a few nut grip sockets off eBay to expand my assortment. They arrived today, and I immediately noticed one of them looked different. The finish was not very good (with a few small nicks), has a much higher polish and different markings.

All of my previous Koken sockets were stamped Made in Japan with a date code (i.e. 169, presumably September 2016). The odd one just says Japan and has what looks like 3K for a date code. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but to me this one socket looks like a factory second (or maybe even a knockoff?). Everything else I own from Koken has a flawless finish.

Anyone out there have further insight? I took a picture of a socket I previously owned (17mm) and the one that's suspect is the 19mm.

Thanks!

Some parts of the world do have different dates interestingly. For instance, in the Buddhist calendar its currently year 2564 I think. Wonder if it was just older or made specifically for Japanese market? It looks pretty legit.


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[General Geoff]

I have a question for any Koken experts out there. I purchased a few nut grip sockets off eBay to expand my assortment. They arrived today, and I immediately noticed one of them looked different. The finish was not very good (with a few small nicks), has a much higher polish and different markings.

All of my previous Koken sockets were stamped Made in Japan with a date code (i.e. 169, presumably September 2016). The odd one just says Japan and has what looks like 3K for a date code. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but to me this one socket looks like a factory second (or maybe even a knockoff?). Everything else I own from Koken has a flawless finish.

Anyone out there have further insight? I took a picture of a socket I previously owned (17mm) and the one that's suspect is the 19mm.

Thanks!

My guess is that it's an old but legitimate Koken socket. Does anyone know when they added nut grip sockets to their catalog?

 

[measuredtwice]

My guess is that it's an old but legitimate Koken socket. Does anyone know when they added nut grip sockets to their catalog?

I don't know when nut grip sockets were added to the catalog. But I bought something from that Ebay seller and it was made in 1999. So at least some of what he's selling is old stock.

 

[kanai]

Anyone out there have further insight? I took a picture of a socket I previously owned (17mm) and the one that's suspect is the 19mm.

I would contact Koken USA and ask them to verify the socket.

 

[Jack84]

My 11mm nutgrip is marked 17k.


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[Jack84]

I think it’s old stock. See the marking on my 1/4 handle.







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[Jack84]

My guess is that it's an old but legitimate Koken socket. Does anyone know when they added nut grip sockets to their catalog?

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[kanai]

Here's a Japanese channel with the channel owner interviewing a mechanic who is going over his ratchets.

He mostly uses air tools but when he does use hand tools, he like Ko-Ken Zeal ratchets. Mostly for their cost/performance. (SO is even more expensive in Japan.) For non-impact sockets, he doesn't have a strong preference as long as they're not too thick-walled. For hex sockets, he prefers Hazet.

The Facom twist ratchet he bought but never uses because the head is too large. He regrets buying it.

 

[eas311]

I have a question for any Koken experts out there. I purchased a few nut grip sockets off eBay to expand my assortment. They arrived today, and I immediately noticed one of them looked different. The finish was not very good (with a few small nicks), has a much higher polish and different markings.

All of my previous Koken sockets were stamped Made in Japan with a date code (i.e. 169, presumably September 2016). The odd one just says Japan and has what looks like 3K for a date code. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but to me this one socket looks like a factory second (or maybe even a knockoff?). Everything else I own from Koken has a flawless finish.

Anyone out there have further insight? I took a picture of a socket I previously owned (17mm) and the one that's suspect is the 19mm.

Thanks!

Thank you to all to that replied. I contacted the seller and it appears this one socket is NOS. Still not sure what date code the 3K corresponds to. If this is indeed 10+ years old, Koken has made numerous small changes (and improvements) to the construction / finish.

 

[RKA]

Not sure if this helps, but I checked the date code on a few nutgrips I ordered off eBay last year. The oldest is stamped “052”. So yours must be older than that if this theory holds.

 

[Ralf11]

give it to a metallurgist and let him grind it up and analyze the metal

 

[Reed Prince]

Got a couple of things today from Amazon Japan.

I've been looking forward to getting the new large Anex screwdriver magnets.




Here is an Anex 407 comfortably fitting on a 6.22mm shaft, the new 412 easily accommodating a 8mm shaft, and a 408 barely fitting on a 6mm shaft.




Also picked up a pair of cable cutters. DEVICE is featured much more prominently on the tool and the packaging than SK11 is, so maybe it is one of their higher end lines? One commenter said it was the exact tool pictured in the textbook he used while studying to be an electrician. Wasn't really expensive, just ¥2,560, but seems like a well made tool.






Here it is with two other cable cutters that I've had for a while. The King TTC CA-38 were a real bargain and work well, but I'm glad to now have something with a larger capacity. The 3.peaks DF-220 is obviously more of a Japanese linesman's pliers, and is designed for flat three wire cable. It's really nice, but if you are interested in buying one and in the USA, you are better off buying from Amazon Japan than 3 Peaks USA, which is part of JDV Products, who also distribute Vessel. ¥3,309 vs. $61.25.

 

[superautobacs]

My guess is that it's an old but legitimate Koken socket. Does anyone know when they added nut grip sockets to their catalog?

Their patent for the Nut-Grip has run out for at least a dozen years now. So, I would assume it's at least as old as the late 1980's.
I have a set of 1/4 drive Nut-Grips with dates codes from 1993. It includes rare sizes like 9mm and 11mm.




eas311,

Comparing old and current production, in my case there's dimensional differences as well.
I don't have a picture, but do have a video that illustrates this difference:

Your 19mm socket does have Ko-ken's newer script logo (I don't know when they switched to it), but intrigued by the two-digit "3K" date code. My vintage 1967 old-logo (non-hyphen Koken script) socket had a simple two-digit date code of "67" and just "Japan". Maybe the operator manning the roll-stamping station forgot to add the first digit? It could've been 83K or 93K or 03K

 

[superautobacs]

Reed Prince,

First time to hear "Device".
OEM is more than likely Marvel R&D.

 

[Reed Prince]

New Ko-Ken USA JIS/Phillips video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/36wEVvuM4w8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Ralf11]

they didn't show the dot on the head

 

[Reed Prince]

Reed Prince,

First time to hear "Device".
OEM is more than likely Marvel R&D.

Thanks! I was a bit puzzled as it seemed more heavy duty than the SK11 products I've encountered in the past. Looks like it's several hundred Yen cheaper than the Marvel version. Never thought of cutting refrigerant tubing with a tool like this as shown in the Marvel promotion, but I suppose it is up to the task.

 

[pizza]

New Ko-Ken USA JIS/Phillips video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/36wEVvuM4w8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ko-ken tools are all manufactured in Japan and therefore all conform to the JIS standard. In addition, they are of best fit to any other Japanese made product. All Japanese made cars, motorcycles, or machines will have used JIS screws in production. If other screwdriver types are used on these specific JIS cross type fasteners it can lead to stripping of the screw and a less productive work ethic.

lol
less productive work ethic? what's that mean?
cursing, screaming, and kicking your bike off its stand in a fit after helplessly stripping 10 screws in a row?