Help Locate & Lay Out Garage (Tandem?)

[mbond007]

Good afternoon all. New to the forum, but been reading a while. I'm hoping to break ground on a new garage this spring. I've been wrenching on my own cars since I was 15 but have never had a garage to do it in, so it's about time!

I'll be as brief as possible with the details and have attached a couple drawings for reference:
-Looking to build a ~30x40 garage
-Originally wanted to put the garage on the wider side of my lot, but this requires me to relocate and significantly extend my driveway. I was told I may not even be able to do this due to the driveway now exiting directly adjacent to an intersection. I liked this layout because I could place 3 large garage doors along the long side and easily fit 4 cars in there. To make it flush with face of house (wife requirement) a small portion of the driveway would be over the septic field. This option requires a significant amount of sitework to fill for, install a driveway and we'd lose 2 nice buffer trees.
-Now looking at the alternative of squeezing the garage between the house and the near property line (this will require 2 variances: 1st for being within side yard setback of 25 feet. 2nd for the garage being closer to the house than its height, i.e. if the garage is 17 feet tall it needs to be 17 feet off of the house.)
-Would like a lift down the road
-We have 3 vehicles I'd like to park inside and are likely buying a 4th this year (wifey wants a 90's bronco to cruise in on sunny days to match my mustang). These vehicles are drawn in according to L&W in the garage layout drawing
-Property slopes up significantly to the bottom of the drawing and to the left (back of house)
-With tandem option I may put a garage door at the back of the garage so I can pull through and get lawn mower in easily, but have to contend with steep hill.

I'll take a couple pictures of the lot layout soon and upload for additional reference.

Really this is a tight fit and not ideal to what I was originally planning on. If the house were built 40 more feet to the west we would be set. Tandem is not the end of the world, but inevitably we will shuffle vehicles around. Do I make the garage a little narrower but longer to give room to walk between the ends of the vehicles? Can't go too much more towards the front (about 3' until the setback line) and do need a little space for drainage between the garage and property line. I'm looking for the opinion of those who have been there and done that. Please tell me what I'm missing, what you would do, things to consider, etc.

Thank you
-Matt

 

[3onthetree]

There is only basic info to go on with your drawing. Is there an existing garage, driveway, and curb cut now? How is the house oriented now (e.g. where the "living/bedroom" side of the house vs the workhorse "kitchen/daily use" side). I am assuming your drawing shows Options A and B.

I'm not reading too much as to why you can't put it behind the septic field. That area should be relatively flat near it as well. Why can't it go closer to the lot line? If there's slope, it is possible to dig into a hill to put your garage. As far as the curb cut, there should be some leeway to get it away from the intersection and still clear the septic field. A quick sketch of a side entry (reds) and front entry (blues) layout.


The other location is not flush with the house (wife reqmt is deal killer?). Access to it is probably from the "bedroom" side of house? Driveway to have a shallow parking area and steep decline to street? Variations are always a crapshoot, but the closer to regulations have a more successful rate. Your variations requested are probably far from the norm.

As far as the garage size, 40' length is tight for a tandem unless the F150 is a single cab shortbed. If you want to work from the fronts you'll have to maneuver them around. Also shimmy around the back or front, and no worktable in front.

 

[rsanter]

Personally I would put it on the other side of the septic field and move it closer to the lot line.
I would also look at building one that is not tandem or at least only one of the cars has to be tandem and have some added shop space

 

[mbond007]

3onthetree, are you the reviewing engineer I just sent some plans over to this morning as well? LOL. The pictures will help to answer a lot of your questions if I can get home before dark to take some. Here is a significantly revised drawing printed in color that should answer a lot of your questions.

House is a raised ranch, added roof layout for upper floor. basement currently gutted.

If the garage will be longways the wife would prefer flush with face of house. Can't go further forward as too much of the septic field will get covered with driveway. Further back and we lose more of the only level/usable yard we have currently. Longer also means more material for the driveway. Further to the west means the wife and I need to carry groceries and kids that much further from garage to the house.

Garage location B I will excavate some of the hill and it will be very level from the road into the garage, but will grade up from the back of the garage (south side) to meet existing grade. Steep grade to the east I will reinstall a french drain in this area to catch surface and ground water that is carried north to the road currently.

A variance for distance from the house did not sound too uncommon to me, but I would expect comment that I'm trying to put 10 pounds of "politicians" in a 5 pound bag.

Thanks for the comments so far!

 

[mbond007]

Hey folks, here are some picture of Garage Location A and I will post some for Location B shortly once I have them resized!

 

[mbond007]

As promised, Location B pics.

This is the tandem garage. The face of the garage and doors would be about midway though the white SUV, or about 10 feet off the face of the house.

Hopefully these shine a little more light on what we're looking to do to help with input.

-Matt

 

[forAK]

Does it need to be detached?
Attaching it to the house in your "garage b" scenario would be best for utilization of your space. You could have entry to your basement as well as your front door. You should be able to carry your roof line, or just below house roof line easy. Having Just 12' between the house and shop makes for useless space. Especially 40' of it.

Does it need to 40' deep?
The attached pic is my shop which is 40' x 40'. On paper, 40' deep sounds like it works perfect but it doesn't. Round it up to 44' if possible. The Bronco on the lift has 3' of clearance between the front and the wall. If you notice the F-150, it passes the tail of the Bronco. There's about 2' of clearance in front of the F-150 to the shop door. In the non lift bay, if I put them Nose to tail, you'll rub walking in-between them and the wall on either end.

 

[Ak Jim]

How long do septic fields last? What happens if you build over part of it and in the future you have to redo the field?

 

[3onthetree]

Still prefer Location A, on the open area of the lot rather than trying to cram it next to the house in Location B. That is the side of the house that functions next to a garage, and putting it there will coincide with a patio and pool area function (e.g. provide visual blockage from street, electrical feed, pump location, pool toy storage, maybe even a pergola off the garage, etc). The pool area can be leveled and up higher to match a patio elevation in back rather than the garage slab elevation, so not tooooo much regrading for the pool. I would disagree with aligning the garage to the house, in fact, I think it would look worse. There is nothing about the house footprint or roof design which is calling for the garage to align with it. As long as it looks the same visually (materials, roof slope), it will appear just fine if it's angled or offset from the house. If the garage is a metal building then even more reason to not align it.

 

[CombatNinja]

And why exactly are you avoiding this flat "useable" portion of your backyard? If your kids are like every other kid I know these days, they weigh 150 pounds at age 8 and never take their eyes off of some screen or another. They will never play in the yard. Doesn't look like there are any signs of kids playing out there now. No toys, bikes, tree forts, sports equipment. Do you realistically need to set that space aside for that one time 3 years from now when you want to play volleyball at a cook out?

 

[mbond007]

Does it need to be detached?
Attaching it to the house in your "garage b" scenario would be best for utilization of your space. You could have entry to your basement as well as your front door. You should be able to carry your roof line, or just below house roof line easy. Having Just 12' between the house and shop makes for useless space. Especially 40' of it.

Does it need to 40' deep?
The attached pic is my shop which is 40' x 40'. On paper, 40' deep sounds like it works perfect but it doesn't. Round it up to 44' if possible. The Bronco on the lift has 3' of clearance between the front and the wall. If you notice the F-150, it passes the tail of the Bronco. There's about 2' of clearance in front of the F-150 to the shop door. In the non lift bay, if I put them Nose to tail, you'll rub walking in-between them and the wall on either end.

Hey forAK, I have thought about attaching it directly to the house, but as you may be able to see in some of those pictures there is a bumpout with and overhang and stairs going into the basement. While it would be nice on one hand, I would need to provide structural/architectural plans for the tie in. I would likely need to do 4' frost walls for the garage, whereas right now I'm planning a floating/Alaskan slab.

It's very funny that you have a bronco on your lift, as that is the exact era Bronco we are looking at for my wife! We also have a crew cab F150, but the next one will have the 6.5' bed LOL.

How long do septic fields last? What happens if you build over part of it and in the future you have to redo the field?

Hey AK Jim, if it's built and maintained correctly that should last 30 years. It's only been used for a couple years so far. Putting the driveway over a small corner doesn't concern me greatly because the system is oversized for the current usage, but it's less than ideal. I'm going to toy more with the other layouts 3onthetree proposed and try to avoid the field, though.

Still prefer Location A, on the open area of the lot rather than trying to cram it next to the house in Location B. That is the side of the house that functions next to a garage, and putting it there will coincide with a patio and pool area function (e.g. provide visual blockage from street, electrical feed, pump location, pool toy storage, maybe even a pergola off the garage, etc). The pool area can be leveled and up higher to match a patio elevation in back rather than the garage slab elevation, so not tooooo much regrading for the pool. I would disagree with aligning the garage to the house, in fact, I think it would look worse. There is nothing about the house footprint or roof design which is calling for the garage to align with it. As long as it looks the same visually (materials, roof slope), it will appear just fine if it's angled or offset from the house. If the garage is a metal building then even more reason to not align it.

Hello again 3onthetree, you bring up some excellent points regarding the garage giving a good location to grab power for the pool and coinciding with a potential pergola. We do want to do a patio off of that side of the house, BBQ area, etc down the road.

I'm going to toy with a couple more layouts and run them by the missus. Our current plan is to do the garage with vinyl siding and asphalt shingles to match the house. I will toy around in Civil 3D and see if I can do some 3D printouts for us to go over.

I am also 90% certain that I am going to borrow my cousin's 250 excavator and hog out a lot of that hill you see behind the house to level off that area more. It will help with water around the house, too. Just need to find a neighbor that wants some clean fill!

And why exactly are you avoiding this flat "useable" portion of your backyard? If your kids are like every other kid I know these days, they weigh 150 pounds at age 8 and never take their eyes off of some screen or another. They will never play in the yard. Doesn't look like there are any signs of kids playing out there now. No toys, bikes, tree forts, sports equipment. Do you realistically need to set that space aside for that one time 3 years from now when you want to play volleyball at a cook out?

Yeah I kept trying to teach our 2 month old how to ride a bike this weekend and he would just fall over every time. I wonder if we can return him.

We do and will use the open space. We throw balls, sticks, etc. for our dogs out there almost every day and hope to have at least one more kid.

Sounds like you need to set timers on your kid's games and get them out for walks to drop the weight before they get diabeetus

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R8da9c6c858000823bf9fd82e3d4e8b8c?rik=%2bdBRQHhxE9WsYw&riu=http%3a%2f%2fepikfails.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2017%2f06%2fwilford-brimley-meme-300x225.jpg&ehk=OOrHo7ToIl5vdJVhPTfzfT4I69T2VtL%2ft3UM60BRI70%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw

 

[CombatNinja]

Sounds like you need to set timers on your kid's games and get them out for walks to drop the weight before they get diabeetus

You kidding me? Don't have kids and never will. They are annoying, take up too much time and money and it is a surefire way to cede all power in a relationship to their Mom. No thank you.

 

[Ak Jim]

I used a frost protected shallow foundation on my addition, original house and garage were traditional deep footers with stem walls. Pretty happy with what I did although I wish I would have used a little more insulation under the slab. The outer two feet rest directly on the compacted gravel and I’m sure I’m losing a little more heat than I’d prefer. Arguments can be made for or against insulating under the footer portion of the slab.

 

[yeldogt]

Is this in an area with no inspections .... we can build near a septic ... and you don't want to build over it

 

[mbond007]

I used a frost protected shallow foundation on my addition, original house and garage were traditional deep footers with stem walls. Pretty happy with what I did although I wish I would have used a little more insulation under the slab. The outer two feet rest directly on the compacted gravel and I’m sure I’m losing a little more heat than I’d prefer. Arguments can be made for or against insulating under the footer portion of the slab.

Ak Jim, how did you tie it into the existing walls? Drill and dowel? I would just be concerned about heave and effecting the existing foundation or my new slab. In my area they will require insulation under the entire slab.

Is this in an area with no inspections .... we can build near a septic ... and you don't want to build over it

There are inspections, but the inspector doesn't know where the septic is here so a corner of the driveway being over a corner of the field would pass. Again, I'd prefer not to if I can help it though!

Thanks for the input so far folks, I appreciate it

 

[ddawg16]

The road to the west....private road? Are you allowed to use it?

If it was me, I'd build it further back so you can save those buffer trees.

If you put the garage on the east side, your lot is going to look lop sided....

If it was me.....I'd run the driveway in front of the house between the house and septic field....take the garage and rotate it about 30 deg so it's parallel to your buffer trees....but far enough away to not bother them

 

[CombatNinja]

Also, not being a smartass in any way, have you considered simply moving? Seems like that lot has a ton of constraints and is not too conducive to what you want to accomplish. You could possibly find a house with a flatter lot without driveway/septic/intersection constraints that might just have a shop built on it already. Then, instead of sinking $75,000 into a shop that will return you zero when you sell, you can scoop up somebody else's shop for free. Bonus if it has a pool already. There is another money loser that you can pick up essentially for free with a house instead of dropping $40K+ on it. Your profile does not list exactly where in NY you are but by and large, a pool is a liability when you go to sell unlike a market like S. Florida where it is usual and customary for houses of a certain price to have a pool. Who wants to bother with a pool in New York State, how many months can you use that thing, maybe 4?

 

[mbond007]

The road to the west....private road? Are you allowed to use it?

If it was me, I'd build it further back so you can save those buffer trees.

If you put the garage on the east side, your lot is going to look lop sided....

If it was me.....I'd run the driveway in front of the house between the house and septic field....take the garage and rotate it about 30 deg so it's parallel to your buffer trees....but far enough away to not bother them

ddawg, that road is my neighbor's driveway so unfortunately no I can't access through there.

I have considered pulling the driveway across the front of the house, but would prefer not to one for looks and two as the driveway would be going over the septic line from the house to the tank. I know the year I pave it I'll have to cut through new blacktop to fix that damn line LOL

Would rather not put the garage any further south into the lot if I can manage to preserve as much of the flat yard as possible. THank you for your input

Also, not being a smartass in any way, have you considered simply moving? Seems like that lot has a ton of constraints and is not too conducive to what you want to accomplish. You could possibly find a house with a flatter lot without driveway/septic/intersection constraints that might just have a shop built on it already. Then, instead of sinking $75,000 into a shop that will return you zero when you sell, you can scoop up somebody else's shop for free. Bonus if it has a pool already. There is another money loser that you can pick up essentially for free with a house instead of dropping $40K+ on it. Your profile does not list exactly where in NY you are but by and large, a pool is a liability when you go to sell unlike a market like S. Florida where it is usual and customary for houses of a certain price to have a pool. Who wants to bother with a pool in New York State, how many months can you use that thing, maybe 4?

We just moved here in july after renovating the house, so would prefer to stay here for at least a few years LOL. I'm not sure about your area, but the market around here is crazy right now. I know we would make money on this house, but would be paying highly inflated pricing wherever we move to.

I have family that will lend me an excavator and contacts for the work I cannot (at least quickly) do myself. Cost to build this garage is about $35k, or at least was last year before lumber skyrocketed.

I grew up with a pool, I like pools