Armstrong Vs Gearwrench ratcheting wrenches

[RbrtAWhyt]

I like quality tools at reasonable prices. Thats why I'm attracted to the GearWrench brand and Craftsman. I've had very good experiences with the tools I've got. I've never had to warranty a GearWrench, and few Craftsman tools. A couple of weeks ago I warrantied a #2 Phillips screwdriver. I used it one time and the tip disentegrated. I don't know what the heck happened to the tooling process on that one. The local sears swapped it out without batting an eye.

I have a few Snap-On pieces I've bought from members here and other places. I'll buy something if it has a decent price and its in decent shape. I have a Matco test probe that I bought off of here that is absolutely outstanding.

You mentioned the X-Beams. I would like a set of those as well. Also on my "wrench" list is a set of flex head reversible wrenches, the "S" wrench sets and the half-moon obstruction wrench sets. From Craftsman I want their SAE and metric double box end wrenchs. That will probably do it for my wrench wants.

I think before I buy anything else, though, I need to invest in some wrench rails.

Too much to buy, and not enough part-time job money to go around...

 

[Teken]

Yup, looks like you and I are on the a similar road / path on wrench's. I too am saving up for the S, and half moon shaped wrench sets. Realisticly, all I require in any of the tools are metric, and very few SAE.

But some how it doesn't feel right only having the one set, and not the other. Not a very strong case to having both, but that's what I am sticking too for my story!

 

[benjamming]

Are you worried about the tools not being made in the USA, or the bag? Both are indeed made in the USA. And by the off chance that the bag was not in fact made in the USA, would that bother you that much?

I would have a preference if the tools were made in the USA, and if the bag wasn't it wouldn't bother me at all to be honest.

I am concerned about the guts being imported on a select few of the wrenches since they were missing the made in USA logo (until you pointed me to the tag). I view the pouch almost as I do a cardboard box I receive something in from UPS.

 

[Teken]

I am concerned about the guts being imported on a select few of the wrenches since they were missing the made in USA logo (until you pointed me to the tag). I view the pouch almost as I do a cardboard box I receive something in from UPS.

I have a few tools that have import internals in them and will tell you from personal experience no problems have ever occurred. This is not from Armstrong, but from other makers.

That is from ratchets, geared wrenches, and flex sockets . . . I never abuse my tools and use the correct tools at all times. But, I won't lie to you I have used some persuasion on a few ratchets with a cheater bar and none of them have ever bent, stripped, or sheared off.

Worry not you're in good hands . . .

 

[oldtools]

If they are the same, and it sure seems that way, Im going with gearwrench due to the price difference. I can get the 16 set of Gearwrench for less than the 12 set from Armstrong and get the same wrench.

Anyone with a truly unbiased opinion compare the two?

If they feel the same, taste the same, and smell the same, they are probably the same. The only difference between the two is the person pressing the "start" button on the automated machine. Somehow, when it is pressed by an American, the tools always come out much better. If two exact machines are situated in two difference countries, (with everything being equal) how can one machine produce much better quality than the other just based on the nationality of the person pressing the "start" button. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

 

[oldtools]

If Armstong and Matco are under the same umbrella, why is Armstrong made in USA and Matco made in Taiwan eventhough Matco is a professional brand.

 

[oldtools]

I agree with that. There are very few countries that actually DO produce quality tools. However, China could produce very high quality tools in they wished. Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tianjin, etc. are all industrial centres. They make jet fighters in Sichuan. That same company supplies entire tail assemblies to Boeing and parts to airbus. If China wanted to produce a tool line to rival snap-on they very well could.

The reason why they typically don't is because discount stores like Harbour Freight work out contracts with factories in some backwoods Chinese province (or in India) to produce cheap generic hand tools for pennies and stamp them Pittsburgh. Their consumers are price-sensitive and unwilling to spend the extra money for quality. Then on the other hand you have US companies like snap-on that cater to less price-sensitive mechanics (see: $150 dollar C-clamp) that are willing to pay whatever snap-on asks so long as the quality is there. Now snap-on has the know-how to produce quality tools anywhere in the world. They could set up a snap-on factory in China (I think they already have) that produces tools to the snap-on standard, but until recently they have had no incentive to do so. Made in USA has always been a positive thing and if snap-on wanted to increase margins they just raised the price. Unfortunately competitive pressures and greed have put an end to that - I think parts of the mechanism in my dual 80 ratchet are Chinese.

My point is this - Chinese tools are usually crappy because the companies that produce them are usually cost-cutters that would produce crappy tools no matter what. Twenty years from now all the junk tools will be made in India.

Many people in this forum have a hard time understanding that just because a country produce valued tools, it does not mean it lack the ability to produce high quality tools.

 

[benjamming]

If they are the same, and it sure seems that way, Im going with gearwrench due to the price difference. I can get the 16 set of Gearwrench for less than the 12 set from Armstrong and get the same wrench.

Anyone with a truly unbiased opinion compare the two?

If they feel the same, taste the same, and smell the same, they are probably the same. The only difference between the two is the person pressing the "start" button on the automated machine. Somehow, when it is pressed by an American, the tools always come out much better. If two exact machines are situated in two difference countries, (with everything being equal) how can one machine produce much better quality than the other just based on the nationality of the person pressing the "start" button. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I think it is absolutely hilarious that oldtools responded to someone asking for a truly unbiased opinion.

 

[BWright]

If Armstong and Matco are under the same umbrella, why is Armstrong made in USA and Matco made in Taiwan eventhough Matco is a professional brand.

Because Armstrong has to worry about their government contracts.

 

[Hiball]

Because Armstrong has to worry about their government contracts.

The Berry amendment doesnt mean that tool is 100% made of USA parts, There is a link in this thread if you wish to read it.

 

[Fedwrench]

If Armstong and Matco are under the same umbrella, why is Armstrong made in USA and Matco made in Taiwan eventhough Matco is a professional brand.

Because there are many branches of the Danaher tool tree. However, in the area of ratcheting wrenches, not all of Matco's versions are imported. Many of the proswing series are US made. In fact, only threes sets come to mind as being imported. The extra long zero offset clones of the Gearwrench Gearbox wrenches, the extra long fixed box on one end with a flex ratcheting box end on the other, and those round bar handled flex head ratcheting wrenches. (I'm talking about those actually stamped Matco) Although Gearwrench has flooded the market with their ratcheting wrenches, Matco introduced their Proswing series of ratcheting wrenches before Gearwrench was so popular and yes, they were all US made back then.

 

[CamarosRus]

Fedwrench, Upon your recommendation I've recently bought metric and SAE used sets of MATCO Ratcheting Boxes. (Each piece, one size, one end fixed box other end ratcheting).

Metric are stamped FORGED USA and include part number GRBLM1515(15mm)

SAE are stamped MADE USA and include part number GRBL1818(9/16)

I'm now shopping for MATCO (made in USA) Ratcheting Combo Wrench's with the 15' Angled head and Open end.................mostly because I want to continuity of brands.

I did buy the GEARWRENCH Locking Flex Heads as many suggested.

 

[oldtools]

Fedwrench, Upon your recommendation I've recently bought metric and SAE used sets of MATCO Ratcheting Boxes. (Each piece, one size, one end fixed box other end ratcheting).

Metric are stamped FORGED USA and include part number GRBLM1515(15mm)

SAE are stamped MADE USA and include part number GRBL1818(9/16)

I'm now shopping for MATCO (made in USA) Ratcheting Combo Wrench's with the 15' Angled head and Open end.................mostly because I want to continuity of brands.

I did buy the GEARWRENCH Locking Flex Heads as many suggested.

What is the difference between "forged usa" and "made usa"? Is the "forged usa" wrenches only forged in usa while the rest of the fabrication processes are done oversea (like "assemble in usa")?

 

[oldtools]

Because there are many branches of the Danaher tool tree. However, in the area of ratcheting wrenches, not all of Matco's versions are imported. Many of the proswing series are US made. In fact, only threes sets come to mind as being imported. The extra long zero offset clones of the Gearwrench Gearbox wrenches, the extra long fixed box on one end with a flex ratcheting box end on the other, and those round bar handled flex head ratcheting wrenches. (I'm talking about those actually stamped Matco) Although Gearwrench has flooded the market with their ratcheting wrenches, Matco introduced their Proswing series of ratcheting wrenches before Gearwrench was so popular and yes, they were all US made back then.

Why can't they just rebranded Armstrong for Matco instead of Gearwrench and have "USA" on it? It would make their customers much happier.

 

[BWright]

Why can't they just rebranded Armstrong for Matco instead of Gearwrench and have "USA" on it? It would make their customers much happier.

You really aren't understanding this are you? Gearwrench offers more variations than armstrong does. Like the gearbox wrenches. Matco offers many ratching wrenches that are made in USA, the same ones armstrong offers. But for the other styles that only gearwrench produces, matco rebrands them rather than not offer them at all? Make sense? There are just as many USA matco ratcheting wrenches as there are Armstrong.

 

[oldtools]

You really aren't understanding this are you? Gearwrench offers more variations than armstrong does. Like the gearbox wrenches. Matco offers many ratching wrenches that are made in USA, the same ones armstrong offers. But for the other styles that only gearwrench produces, matco rebrands them rather than not offer them at all? Make sense? There are just as many USA matco ratcheting wrenches as there are Armstrong.

I see it now. Thanks for clarifying it.

 

[Cantause]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post on this forum, I'm François, 24, from Belgium.

I've been buying some tools during the past 3 months, I decided to have my own toolbox. I was using my father's tools until now but as I'll have my own little workshop soon, it won't be possible anymore.
I've remembered what my father always told me "stick with quality tools, you won't have regrets". So I had most of mine from Facom, which is "our" Snap On here in Europe, when it came to ratcheting wrenches I decided to give a try to other brands, especially from the USA...



This forum helped me a lot, at the beginning I didn't know any other manufacturer than SnapOn...
Now that I've received almost all of them, I'd like to give my opinion about the set that I've bought:

Gearwrench: X-beam XL Metric and SAE

Armstrong: Double box (ratcheting/ring) Metric

Blackhawk:
Stubby Metric
Combination Jumbo (21-34)
Double box Metric and SAE (double reversible ratchet), not received yet..

Facom: Combination (10-19)

Well, I've bought many more than what I need, cheap dollar helped I guess, now I suppose that I have an overview of these brands.

Ratcheting mechanism:
All of them are 72 teeth, I think. GW are the most deceiving, not very precise (a kind of hysteresis between the teeth), the torque required for going from one tooth to the next one sometime change during a turn, but will be regular during the next turn
Armstrong, more precise and the the "ratcheting torque" is regular.
Blackhawk, best in the category, precise and smooth a real pleasure.
Facom, same as Blackhawk, both Stanley group, same plant?

Finish
GW, not the best chrome I've seen but fine, images are "scrambled"
Armstrong Nice chrome but not perfect.
Blackhawk slightly better than armstrong with some imperfections here and there.
Facom Satin chrome, can't be compared to the shiny American tools but really nice in its category, I can post pictures if you want...

Ergonomics
I like the GW because of the x-beam, a big plus!
The other ones are almost the same usual wenches.

I'm happy with all of them, they have their advantages, but as far as the ratcheting "feeling" is concerned I prefer the Blackhawk/facom. I'll try to measure that "hysteresis" angle between the blocked position and the engagement of the tooth next WE!

I hope that I didn't "pollute" this post with the blackhawk wrenches, but someone asked for a unbiased opinion, I had to say that my preferred American wrench is... Taiwanese... and probably have the French nationality too!

François

 

[Teken]

I thought I was the only one who noticed the play in the Gearwrench! That is the only reason I have held out for Armstrong to come out with a X-beam flex head geared wrench set!

I find that the Armstrong gear engagement is tighter, not necessary smoother but firm, sure, and tight!

Others may prefer the smoother action, I prefer a positive feed-back and engagement knowing that the next ratchet action will engage and not skip, or back out like I have seen on a few other makers tools . . .

Great feed-back, and welcome to GJ!

 

[Vinko]

re: a few pages back. Armstrong advertises USA-made from forge to finish. (i.e., the entire wrench, 100%). This suggests to me that the gears on the ratcheting box wrenches are also made in the USA. Does anyone have a good argument to suggest my assumption is incorrect?

 

[Teken]

re: a few pages back. Armstrong advertises USA-made from forge to finish. (i.e., the entire wrench, 100%). This suggests to me that the gears on the ratcheting box wrenches are also made in the USA. Does anyone have a good argument to suggest my assumption is incorrect?

When I called Armstrong a few months ago the lady on the phone stated every tool is forged to finish, this includes the gear sets etc . . .

If you go review my *Armstrong Smokin Deal* thread you will note that they go so far as making both the socket rail, and the clips in the factory . . .

These things I would have expected to be sourced from over seas for sure! Nope, they are made in the factory in the USA . . .

The only thing I could ask of the Armstrong company is that they reconsider making the X-Beam Flex head gear wrench in the next coming year!