The VISES of Garage Journal

[marine-mp]

Hello the forum!! Figured I post some pictures of my vises in the workshop. Wilton Bullet 3.5, Wilton Bullet 6”, Columbian 503 1/2, Wilton Cadet 3.5 and a Columbian144M. All these get used every day. Admittedly, sometimes get played with also!! Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[KMScott]

Dr Scott: Kevin, how would you compare the strength of a bronze fork to a normal ferrous-metal alloy fork ?? I'd think bronze might be more forgiving, a bit more flex before breaking?

Pierce A

I totally agree, the bronze won't break or wear like the cast collars. The newer stuff like Ampco makes has a light percentage of aluminum in it and that really changes the wear and tensile strength of the Bronze. Ampco really has the Bronze figured out.

 

[Smitty]

Marine-mp: you have some beautiful Wilton’s in your collection and that 600 looks really clean. I’ve spent some time in Gatlinburg and Pigeon forge on vacation. I must say the locals there are the friendliest people I’ve ever met.

 

[marine-mp]

Thanks for the kind words, Smitty. The blue 3.5 was my Dad’s. I picked up the others here an yon. Gatlinburg an PF are a stones thro over the mountain. Nice places to spend some time and money!! Usually go there once a year or so, in the slow season. Gets crazy in the summertime!! My granddaughter was born in Sevierville. Take care. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[va.grouseman]

Marine, nice assortment you have there, and nice big shop.---That's the one thing I really miss is room.

And thank you for serving your and my country.

 

[marine-mp]

Va.grouse man, thank you kindly for the complimentary words. It was my honor to serve our country. Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[gearhead1960]

PierceA:
I have a broken collar situation on a Parker 31 that is not yet in my hands.
It should be here by the end of the week. Based on photos, it looks like it is still operational but a big chunk of it is missing. It’s not going to be a user but I want to clean off the crud and apply a BLO finish. The original paint or Japanning might be saveable. It would be a distraction to make it handsome again and have a broken collar. But then again, originality counts and if it still works, why replace with new?

Was anybody here bidding on this one? Somebody slipped in a snipe bid with 5 seconds to go but my secret maximum proxy bid was higher.
If you’re dying to know what the final bid was, PM me.

Shiftless,

Nice buy. Seller obviously didn't know what they had....

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Marine-mp,

Welcome, nice to see a fellow Marine with the vise problem! Those are almost the same exact Wiltons I have in my collection. Very nice!

 

[MayerMR]

Shiftless,

Nice buy. Seller obviously didn't know what they had....

Is the Parker 31 a rare ******? Or what am I missing?

Marine-mp,

Welcome, nice to see a fellow Marine with the vise problem! Those are almost the same exact Wiltons I have in my collection. Very nice!

Make it three! Semper Fi, boys.

 

[Shiftless]

Shiftless,

Nice buy. Seller obviously didn't know what they had....

Thanks, gearhead.

(He is talking about my Parker 31

Those early Parkers are quite rare. I never thought I’d get such a nice one still in original paint shipped to my door for under $100
I thought one or two other vise collectors would have recognized the value in that listing on eBay. I was lucky in that it seems like all of them were asleep. Worldwide, eBay has almost 200,000,000 possible competing bidders so it’s very unusual that something slips by all of them. (Yeah, I do realize that all of them are not constantly scanning the listings for vises )

 

[blacksuit99]

Please delete

 

[blacksuit99]

After looking on this thread for awhile I realized I needed a REAL vise. Found this one on eBay. I believe from what I found online rock island 93. I’m not sure why it says 98 on one side and 93 on the other. Overall this one is in pretty good shape, I just took a wire cup lightly to it and rubbed it down with some oil. It had light cover of rust and grease when I got it. I’d love to know what year it is made but have been able to find any dates on it. If someone has a guess please let me know! Should have added, 4 inch jaws and opens to 7 inches. I’m not planning on doing a restoration anytime soon with this one. It is definitely going to be put to work. I am think about getting another for that purpose.

 

[Shiftless]

Black suit:
Your Rock island looks great. Nice job on the simple clean up.
Birtman Electric of Chicago bought Rock Island in 1930. So Rock Island vises made after that date generally have metal tags ayong Birtman Electric attached to the side of the main body of the vise with metal pins.

So your vise is about 100 years old.

 

[PierceA]

Blacksuit: Your Rock Island is in very good condition: nice crisp corners on the slide and the jaw faces.
Rock Island vises are solid and tough. This one will make a great working vise for you. Just keep the surface rust at bay [I like regular Minwax or Johnson's Paste wax for regular user vises] Keep the thrust surface under the mainscrew head lubed with grease or oil.

Good find !!

PierceA

 

[PierceA]

I really like Pattern Maker vises. I'm NOT sure WHY. But I can hardly resist when I find one for sale.
A few weeks back I bought an American Scale And Last Friday I purchased a Prentiss 26.
Both have 4-1/2" jaws.
The Prentiss swivel jaw and pin freed up quickly without too much of a battle.
And yes, the Prentiss has a minor case of 'The Prentiss Pox' A crack in the rear of the slide..
I'll stop-drill the crack and weld it on the inside.
The 'finish' of the castings on the Prentiss are awful.. lots of lumps, bumps, large chunks like welding spatter but they are part of the castings. Pretty rough looking.. I'm thinking the casting or core sand was just not 'right', and left a rough surface. My other Prentiss a Bulldog 19 has nice looking castings..

Pierce A

 

[PierceA]

Here are my DropFo 4" and 5". I just purchased the 5" on Monday. I looked up DropFo in the vise info spreadsheet, and there is a brochure posted as well.
In the sales brochure a 3" version is listed as well as two different 5" vises.. one i called Heavy Duty.
Looking at my newly acquired 5" version, and taking it apart for a good cleaning, I think this vise was never intended to be a swivel base.. The stationary jaw/body in the 4" vise has a slot milled in it, and when either the swivel lock screw is tightened, or if something is tightened between the jaws, the taper on the mainscrew nut spreads the vise body, expanding it and locking it to the inside of the bolted down base..

But this 5" vise does NOT have the machined slot in the stationary jaw/body.. So the mainscrew nut cannot have any effect on the size of the body / base interaction.
The stationary jaw/body appears to have been pressed into the mounting base.. There is no indiction that the base has ever swiveled.. There are some machining marks on the top surface of the base, where the body of the vise would rest and rub when it was swiveled,, and there is no indication of it every have been touching or moving..

So: what do you guys think? Do you think the 'Heavy Duty' version of this oddball vise is this version: a non swiveling version to make the main body much more solid and rigidly mounted?

The stamped 'DROPFO' is SO AMATEURISH on these vises.. Looks like a 4 or 5 year old was give an handful of letter stamps and told to stamp the name on the jaw's surface..

The 5" vise has two rectangular insets on the back of the fixed jaw. Cast into the recessses can be seen the poorly defined word in the top recess: PART No And in the lower recess a ?? and 'IN" So I'm assuming it's 5-IN..

Virtually no wear on the vise parts that are forged.. But the 'meatball' on the main screw handle is pretty badly wallowed out.. I'll remove the handle and braze in a bushing when I have some time..

The 4" I have just put paste wax on the vise to seal and protect from rust.. i think I'll do the same on this one..

PierceA

 

[Shiftless]

PierceA:
Great find! Classic pattern maker tall jaws AND a swivel jaw too.

 

[PghJKB]

Thanks, gearhead.

(He is talking about my Parker 31

Those early Parkers are quite rare. I never thought I’d get such a nice one still in original paint shipped to my door for under $100
I thought one or two other vise collectors would have recognized the value in that listing on eBay. I was lucky in that it seems like all of them were asleep. Worldwide, eBay has almost 200,000,000 possible competing bidders so it’s very unusual that something slips by all of them. (Yeah, I do realize that all of them are not constantly scanning the listings for vises )

A more complete listing of the Parker 30 series:

JKB

 

[Vise]

PierceA - Those dropfo's are very cool. Not easy to find those. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks Pjh!
Do you have any idea of the date of your catalog page? I noticed that the price for the #31 on your page is $4.00 while the price on the one I found and posted yesterday was $3.00.

Nowadays we are used to prices steadily creep upwards (inflation) but back in those days prices could have gone down (deflation) like in the depression.

The illustrations on your page seem more like photographs or at lease a different style of inking rather than the line drawings. It seems to me that that is another strong clue.

 

[PierceA]

Shiftless, did you ask the seller of the Parker 31 if they have the broken part of the collar? I've occasionally had luck with people keeping he broken pieces.. Not understanding that welding is a good repair, And that 'new' parts are NOT available..

I'm still looking for a Parker Pattern Maker's vise.. I have Reed, Rock Island, Yost, American Scale and Prentiss. But not an example of my favorite maker,, yet..


PierceA

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Picked up another Stanley No 763 clamp-on vise yesterday. In very similar condition to the one I found back in Sep (on the right).

 

[blacksuit99]

Shiftless- thank you for the age information!

PierceA- thank you as well!

I am really excited to have this vise. I definitely like to take care of my stuff and I’m sure it’ll be in my sons garage when I’m done with it!

 

[bastel]

Guys, what would a 3 inch jaw width prentiss rapid transit be worth? Seller just upped price by 50% so I am like not in the mood, but maybe it's still a good deal?

 

[CRSINMICH]

bastel: I couldn't tell you what a rapid transit Prentiss would be worth but, unless there is another Saxony that I don't know about, Prentiss vices (vises) are probably not very common in your neighborhood. Even here, a rapid transit Prentiss would be rare. What is an uncommon unicorn worth to you?

 

[bastel]

Nothing since I was going to get it for a friend who has hit harder times right now and keep it until he can get back onto his feet. With the increase it's what I’d pay for a vise I would really want - but I don't care much for US vises. So if I were to sell it, say the US, it should at least cover buying price + shipping.

 

[CRSINMICH]

bastel: Fair enough. I was actually trying to encourage you to go for it. It does seem to be a rare opportunity but not if you're not really interested. It was nice of you to think of your friend though.

 

[TailGunner3000]

Here are my DropFo 4" and 5". I just purchased the 5" on Monday. I looked up DropFo in the vise info spreadsheet, and there is a brochure posted as well.
In the sales brochure a 3" version is listed as well as two different 5" vises.. one i called Heavy Duty.
Looking at my newly acquired 5" version, and taking it apart for a good cleaning, I think this vise was never intended to be a swivel base.. The stationary jaw/body in the 4" vise has a slot milled in it, and when either the swivel lock screw is tightened, or if something is tightened between the jaws, the taper on the mainscrew nut spreads the vise body, expanding it and locking it to the inside of the bolted down base..

But this 5" vise does NOT have the machined slot in the stationary jaw/body.. So the mainscrew nut cannot have any effect on the size of the body / base interaction.
The stationary jaw/body appears to have been pressed into the mounting base.. There is no indiction that the base has ever swiveled.. There are some machining marks on the top surface of the base, where the body of the vise would rest and rub when it was swiveled,, and there is no indication of it every have been touching or moving..

So: what do you guys think? Do you think the 'Heavy Duty' version of this oddball vise is this version: a non swiveling version to make the main body much more solid and rigidly mounted?

The stamped 'DROPFO' is SO AMATEURISH on these vises.. Looks like a 4 or 5 year old was give an handful of letter stamps and told to stamp the name on the jaw's surface..

The 5" vise has two rectangular insets on the back of the fixed jaw. Cast into the recessses can be seen the poorly defined word in the top recess: PART No And in the lower recess a ?? and 'IN" So I'm assuming it's 5-IN..

Virtually no wear on the vise parts that are forged.. But the 'meatball' on the main screw handle is pretty badly wallowed out.. I'll remove the handle and braze in a bushing when I have some time..

The 4" I have just put paste wax on the vise to seal and protect from rust.. i think I'll do the same on this one..

PierceA

Hi PierceA.

Any chance you can post some multi-angle pictures of the base of the 4 in model?

I have the vise but the base is missing. I've pretty much determined my chances of finding a replacement are zero. So I'd like to make one myself, but decent pictures of the base alone are equally impossible to find.

Thanks.

 

[Shiftless]

bastel: Fair enough. I was actually trying to encourage you to go for it. It does seem to be a rare opportunity but not if you're not really interested. It was nice of you to think of your friend though.

Yes indeed. I have heard it said that you can always get some more money but once those rare opportunity “unicorn” vises are gone you won’t get another chance to buy one.

 

[bastel]

Oh I bought a nice small Zeus 1 vise for a similar price where it was an ebay auction and my puls rate was very very high and unhealthy. That was a unicorn vise. This one doesn't do that for me, but maybe for one of you and I just wanted to see if there is any economical sense in getting it so I can make one of you guys happy without making a loss. I am not trying to "make money" here, there is no real money to make with stuff like that. Shipped many a parcel full of vises to the states by now, so I know what I am talking about.

 

[Shiftless]

I alway figured shipping from European countries would be prohibitive. Plus getting through customs sounds intimidating.

Could you give a cost example of a good sized vise shipping from Germany to California where I live? Like maybe a 3 or 4 inch vise weighing maybe 10-20 kg.?

Does the recipient have to pay customs on a “used” vise? How does that work? I have heard horror stories of months of delays and high unexpected costs.

 

[budget76]

I previously posted when I picked up 3 rusty vises, a Reed, a Parker, and a Wilton. The Reed got restored for Dad for . the Parker got restored and sold for $150 to fund the other two. Wilton is waiting for warmer weather or will just be used as-is.

Here's the results of the Parker 973 1/2 restoration. It was in great shape, definitely a low use example. Same electrolysis and wirebrush treatment as the Reed. This one got a combination of butchers wax & matte Rustoleum spray to protect from corrosion. Sounds like it'll live an easy life with the next owner

 

[PierceA]

TailGunner: Here ya go: a bunch of images and measurements of the base for my DropF0 4". Surprisingly the 5" DropFo apparently uses the same base..
My 4" weighs 36#, my 5" weighs 53.2#. The 5" does not swivel.

The inside diameter of the base is 3.5" that I measured with a good dial caliper.
This base should not be a big deal to make.. The challenge will be to find a piece of 1.5" thick steel, either at least 5" square and make it round, or a 1.5" long piece of round stock.
It will be a lot of 'chip-making' to cut the inner circle out of the steel, but It's just time at the lathe.
Making and welding on the three feet is easy.. Grinding and finishing the welds is also not a problem
You have the important measurement in your possession: the round 3.5" diameter stub on the bottom of your fixed jaw/base of you vise.
You just have to measure your vise and cut the bore in the base to have a few .001ths" clearance for it to rotate..

I wonder if a piece of very heavy wall well pipe would work?


Pierce A

 

[rangerfredbob]

You guys are obviously more experienced in vises than I, so what do I have here? All I know is it looked goofy and for $15 at auction I couldn't pass it up... Not sure about the broken corner, was missing when I got it, might see if I can get creative and recreate it... I haven't measured the jaw but probably around 3.5-4"

I have several more, one light duty 4" Wilton (steel bar for a slide with a roll pin holding the jaw on, bottom of the cast broke off at the roll pin) that I broke and fixed and at least one or two more floating around...

 

[Shiftless]

You have an FPU vise made in Poland.

I have seen more than a few of them with broken corners like that.

The FPU is a precision vise with adjustable strips (wayes?) to almost completely eliminate play and they don’t tolerate being used like a blacksmith post vise.

Somebody probably tried clamping something in those jaws and tried to bend it or hammer on it.

But for only $15 I too would have brought it home.
I bet if you took it apart, cleaned, adjusted, and lubed it properly, it would work OK.

In that overall condition but undamaged it would bring at least $200 where I am.

Here is a pic of one with very similar damage as yours that went for $35 plus shipping on that big worldwide auction site.

.

 

[rangerfredbob]

It is smooth and tight, jaws seem to be parallel even... Once I get the shop done and I have work bench space it'll get a cleaning and I'll use it for lighter duty stuff

Thanks for the info!

 

[wrenchguy]

It is smooth and tight, jaws seem to be parallel even... Once I get the shop done and I have work bench space it'll get a cleaning and I'll use it for lighter duty stuff

Thanks for the info!

Its not good for when the work being held drops below bench top. The rear body/jaw moves away from you. Excellant vises though.

 

[ed4banger]

Got hold of another Craftsman combination 2-in-1 vise. These are fun to work on.....the 5241 appears in the '35, '36 and '41 Craftsman catalogs......

 

[CRSINMICH]

Shiftless, bastel, and ed4banger: Serendipity today: While looking for something else, I found this Parker 31 in an 1891 catalog, this Rapid Transit Prentiss in an 1894 catalogue, and Ed, I have a little Giant vise like the one in the Sears catalog page you posted. It's the only information I've ever found. Thanks.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Got hold of another Craftsman combination 2-in-1 vise. These are fun to work on.....the 5241 appears in the '35 and '36 Craftsman catalogs......

Ed,

That is a beauty! There has been one on my local offerup for $300 for several months. I made an offer but I think he must not check it. They only made them for those two years?