I need some help from the collective here. I am putting together a paint system here at my home. I bought 2 SATA 5000. And a SATA mini jet 4400. The guns are calling for around 15 com. So time for new compressor also. Did a lot of reading on different specs at different psi. And it just gets confusing. I have 2000 dollar budget. Of course less is better. I am looking for some one to point me in the right direction. And give me the good old “just buy this one and you don’t have to worry about nothing”.
So confused
- Thread starter Havelka44
- Start date
cvairwerks
Well-known member
You need a compressor that will deliver 15 SCFM @ 30 PSIG to run the 5000 series guns. You're looking at a 5-7.5 hp compressor with a 60 gallon or larger tank. If you are going to be painting much, then you want a compressor with a 100% duty cycle and a pump life greater than 5,000 hours.
Don't forget to add in appropriate sized water and particle traps and regulators. Quincy, Champion and others all make units that will do what you want.
Don't forget to add in appropriate sized water and particle traps and regulators. Quincy, Champion and others all make units that will do what you want.
matt_i
Well-known member
If you get a typical 2 stage compressor with a 7.5hp electric motor I don't think you will have any problems.
Edit: my opinion is you want to go with a series of cyclonic, coalescing and finally dessicant filters before you enter the paint gun.
Edit: my opinion is you want to go with a series of cyclonic, coalescing and finally dessicant filters before you enter the paint gun.
Don1357
Well-known member
Two stage is an overrated gimmick to sell compressors, cheaper than being able to deliver a higher CFM volume. So you get a higher PSI on the thank, won cares when you are doing high volume operations and that buffer evaporates in under a minute.
Basically you'll need at least a 5HP, single or dual stage, that point is pretty meaningless, that can deliver the volume of air you need as measured in CFM. whether it is a 60 or 80 gallon is also pretty meaningless, with the volume of air you state you need you will be running off what your pump can deliver.
B_Bimmer
Well-known member
Two stage is hardly a gimmick. Higher pressures just aren't required in this scenario.
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
...and transmissions are just an "overrated gimmick" to sell cars, cheaper than being able to deliver 1000 horsepower.
Get your FACTS straight Don.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Two stage compressors are far from a gimmick.
I have and recommend a Champion 15hp pump coupled to a 7.5 hp motor spinning at half speed. It came “fully packaged” with auto drain, magnetic starter and aftercooler. The air leaves much drier than without the aftercooler. The higher pressure does impact how much the compressor runs and this is by design. I’ve been very happy with it. I run the same SATA guns without issue.
I have and recommend a Champion 15hp pump coupled to a 7.5 hp motor spinning at half speed. It came “fully packaged” with auto drain, magnetic starter and aftercooler. The air leaves much drier than without the aftercooler. The higher pressure does impact how much the compressor runs and this is by design. I’ve been very happy with it. I run the same SATA guns without issue.
Don1357
Well-known member
If the OP wants to paint and needs 15CFM the fact that he could stuff an extra 40 PSI on the tank is close to worthless to him. On a 20 minute painting session, 150PSI tank vs 190PSI tank. In under a minute the extra 40 PSI is gone. It saved him a whooping under a minute of compressor time, less than 5%. Furthermore the only thing that under a minute bought him is what exactly? He pretty much ran the job on his pump in either case.
If you need a lot of air volume (like this OP states he needs) and you are faced with two compressors, a two stage 200PSI tank that does 10CFM@90, and a single stage 140PSI tank that does 20CFM@90, you'll find out in a hurry how worthless having higher pressure is compared to one where you don't have to stop every 4 minutes for the pump to catch up.
If you need a lot of air volume (like this OP states he needs) and you are faced with two compressors, a two stage 200PSI tank that does 10CFM@90, and a single stage 140PSI tank that does 20CFM@90, you'll find out in a hurry how worthless having higher pressure is compared to one where you don't have to stop every 4 minutes for the pump to catch up.
txvwnut
Well-known member
Show a link to a 20cfm single stage compressor. Every single stage comp I've seen are rated at less than 10cfm. The OP never stated what he was going to be painting, if its whole cars then a twenty minute session aint gonna get the job done especially if your doing under hood and trunk and hitting the jambs. I've sprayed with a 5hp single stage compressor with sixty gallon tank and it ran constantly to keep up with the demand of any of my guns.
Thanks for the help guys. I was looking at a ingersoll and rand that says it is 5hp 80 gallon. That puts out 15.8 cfm at 90 psi. Will this work. Also any place online with good prices on these. The one I just talked about is at tractor supply.
I bought one ^^ from zoro last year with a 20% off coupon for around $2k. That thing runs a couple 7cfm plasma units allll day no sweat.
Rollcage not included
Polar air has by far the longest warranty on a continuous run compressor. Don't own one, don't know anyone who does, but there used to be a ton of talk about them all over the net, mostly good (except for the owner who would go around talking about suing people for saying the pump is chinese)
https://eatoncompressor.com/product...gle-phase-80-gallon-vertical-industrial-plus/
https://eatoncompressor.com/product...gle-phase-80-gallon-vertical-industrial-plus/
Strouty
Well-known member
One thing that might seem obvious to most, but don't think you can run rubber hose directly out of the tank and put a water/oil separator just before the tool, you need some steel/aluminum/copper lines to help condense the moisture out of the air.
Don1357
Well-known member
You seem to have missed the point of what I just said. To summarize:
CFM is king. For high air volume applications 1 stage vs 2 stage (as in high PSI tanks) is pretty much meaningless. Nice, but meaningless.
I upgraded from a 175 PSI compressor to a 145 PSI compressor. The first one had a 5.8 CFM@90, the second one 13.5 CFM@90.
joe_padavano
Well-known member
^^^THIS!
I'm not sure a 7.5 HP compressor is needed for the OP, however. Most true 5HP compressors (as opposed to those with "SPL HP" motors) come with pumps that put out about 17 SCFM. My Rolair K30 pump puts out ~23 SCFM with 7.5 HP. I do have to say that it's now a pleasure to media blast with that size pump.
casmurbax
Well-known member
I bought one ^^ from zoro last year with a 20% off coupon for around $2k. That thing runs a couple 7cfm plasma units allll day no sweat.
Rollcage not included
not to hijack the thread but Cam WTF is that in a cage for and all the manifolds? do you just roll that around the shop to where it is needed?
bmwpowere36m3
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,125
Any examples or suggestions on setup? I'm seeing setups with coalescing/desiccant filter/regulator... not seeing the cyclonic.
SamuraiJack
Well-known member
Car restoration to me also means air sanders possibly a blast cabinet and other high cfm tools. A medium sized cabinet is going to need 15cfm at 90psi, and the sand is probably around 7 cfm at 90psi. You should be able to accommodate both of those with your budget and the with the IR you mentioned. You could also check out Northern Tool if there are any in your area. Not sure how your garage is wired but I think the the bigger units also need 240v supply.
Sorry I missed this. I built it for job sites and to run multiple types of pneumatic whatever’s. It’s even got an autotransformer so input voltage can be set to 240 or 208.
tdkkart
Well-known member
120 gallon tank, charged to 130psi, with an single stage 18CFM pump, delivering 35psi to the gun, pump typically turns on at 90psi with less than 30 seconds spray time left from a 24oz paint cup.
Also, installing a 3/4" RapidAir(or any other high flowpiping up to the point if where you switch to a hose) will dramatically reduce you pressure fluctuations at the gun.
Also, installing a 3/4" RapidAir(or any other high flowpiping up to the point if where you switch to a hose) will dramatically reduce you pressure fluctuations at the gun.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
I would caution you against that compressor for your needs. The store specials like the TS4N5 use 3600 rpm motors and high speed pumps to attempt to get CFM numbers at a price point.
First, most flat out lie about the hp. A 5hp single phase 230v motor will have ~28 Full load amps. The Tough SH&# Charlies IR has 21 Full load amps. A true 5hp dual stage compressor with oversized pump running around 750-800 rpm with produce 19 cfm at 100 psi, the TSC IR is 15.8 at 90.
The small displacement high pump speed not only is noisy but also generates more heat which is enemy for producing cool dry air, and ends up with low life.
Northern tool list that model as having a 5000 hour pump life, I find TSC 15000 hour life dubious.
Also it is 78 DB loud. A true 5 hp with low rpm pump is 72-73 DB. 3 DB increase in sound is considered to be double to the listener. So it is around 2.5 times louder.
Champion, Quincy pressure lubed models, and eaton all make true five hp low rpm pump models that would be more suitable to your needs.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
You'll need 17 SCFM. Painting is not normally a continuous operation. Not like using a die grinder which eats up more air than even SATA's which is saying something. Worst is a blasting cabinet. I have at least 13 SATA guns and about 50-60 spray guns in total. I collect them. The 5000's are good guns. The X5500 might be even better as it doesn't have the baffle gasket that needs to be replaced from time to time as the 5000's do. The 3000 and the 4000 both sucked. The RP (blue) will use less air than the HVLP (green) by about 4-5 SCFM. It also gives a better finish. SATA is now recommending the RP for both base and clear but for over a decade the pros have used HVLP for base and RP for clear. My recommendation is a 7.5 HP compressor as that will do everything you could ever want to do including sandblasting and head porting. You'll need 6 gauge wire to the panel for this amp load but it's worth the cost as buy once and you're good for the rest of your life. I agree with the Eaton/Polar recommendation and I also recommend you go with the one that has the silencer muffler as these are amazingly quiet. The Home Depot has these as the deal of the day once in awhile and you can save a bundle of money waiting for this one day sale to happen.