The VISES of Garage Journal

[PierceA]

Lugz; I too collect a lot of single end wrenches. most are in my experience are open end. The next most common are either square opening or 8 point opening for square headed locking bolts or adjustment screws.. Then the 12 point openings.. and last the 6 point ones..

I have several single end square or 8 point wrenches. I've considered putting one in the mill and enlarging the opening to a 6 point opening. Not sure if there is enough meat in the wrench after the machining.. ?

PierceA

 

[rangerfredbob]

This is more of a teaser for now as I don't have them on hand, but on an online auction yesterday I ended up with 3 vises... one lot was two vises with two pictures that were pretty bad, but you could see Columbian on one and the tall vises, with swivel base still, so a 203 1/2 or 204 1/2 likely, and the other looks like a 5" Wilton with a broken jaw insert. Another lot was a bench with a big ol heavy looking swivel vise on it...

 

[PierceA]

Ranger: when are you going to go fetch them??

PierceA

 

[rangerfredbob]

Sometime this week, will keep updated

 

[CRSINMICH]

HARTMANN VISE​

I posted a quick-adjust clamp-on a few days ago. Here's another type. It doesn't have a screw. There are two slides and a lever on the side. Lift the lever up and the jaw slides in or out. Push the lever down and the jaws are locked.

Does anyone know what the "I" inside the diamond stands for?

 

[Smitty]

I’ve been working on my Wilton baby bullet vise collection, here’s a few pics.


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

smitty, that's a beautiful collection! I dont want to hijack the thread but that looks like a significant dollar value there based on what the members here have said. Is that something you would insure? Or just document for homeowners policy?

 

[Smitty]

Thanks Mr W, let’s just say I keep hem under lock and key.

 

[MayerMR]

Which came first: The Parker 439, 449,474? or the Craftsman Rotators? Both are similar in function, and I think there is another rotator that had a vertical lever on the side to lock the rotation.

I have a 449, and it's a beast. Much heavier duty and heavy than the 474 that breaks the slide support so often.

PierceA

You can see the 449 in with the pile of Parkers.
The second image is of a 474 that has the cracked slide support.. Not mine.

I'm curious about this as well - I've got a Parker 439. What is the jaw size on the 449? I'd assume they are of a similar era and that the 449 is just a larger version?

For those of you that think some of us are taking this vise stuff way too seriously...no we're not.

*agreed*

The third vise may have solved a riddle I've wondered about. It is the same distinctive shape as the Jordan Special in the fourth picture. Trying to find out who made Jordan, I discovered that there are several other vises with that same odd shape. All Morgan made?

My point is that the shape of the vise can be helpful in identification but, it is not sufficient on its own and could be misleading...

Not that it helps, but I've got a Ward's-branded vise that is just like the Jordan vise.

 

[RBarnes]

Who says you cannot clamp something small in a big vise?

 

[Sjohns53]

Chas Parker no 3x

Recently picked up chas Parker no 3x. Was completely locked up so I soaked in motor oil for a few weeks and beat on it a bit now it works flawlessly . It opens to 8” and weighs a ton so not really very handy for me . Wondering if anyone has any clue what it would be worth . Thanks

 

[Sjohns53]

Found in the backyard of abandoned house next door . Shed and table it was mounted on had rotted out from around it l

 

[jpickar]

I’ve been working on my Wilton baby bullet vise collection, here’s a few pics.


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

I wish some you collectors would back off so I could find one to use!

 

[MayerMR]

Recently picked up chas Parker no 3x. Was completely locked up so I soaked in motor oil for a few weeks and beat on it a bit now it works flawlessly . It opens to 8” and weighs a ton so not really very handy for me . Wondering if anyone has any clue what it would be worth . Thanks

Found in the backyard of abandoned house next door . Shed and table it was mounted on had rotted out from around it l

That vise seems to be in reasonably good shape. Around here (DFW area), I'd expect it to be in the $200 range, but heavily dependent on no cracks/repairs and how nice the jaws and jaw towers are. Your pics seem to show a reasonably nice vise, but more detailed images would be needed for a better assessment. As always, location is as important as condition.

*edit* btw, when I say $200-range, I mean I expect that is what someone selling one is likely to actually get for it, they could do better though. Like everywhere, we have people who list vises left and right in the DFW-area for $100-300+ more than their actual market value because they find something similar on eBay or a google search, not realizing/caring that the example they are selling is beat to hell/broken/repaired/etc. vs the pristine or rare example with which they are comparing.

I wish some you collectors would back off so I could find one to use!

Start looking for a vise and one will pop up. They aren't exactly a rare item. If you truly want a small, 2" vise to use, then you can buy them anywhere, new and used.

If you're complaining because a guy across the country from you enjoys collecting rare examples of something that you haven't yet gotten yourself, well, you just look childish.

 

[CRSINMICH]

MayerMR: Thanks. I knew there are many variations of the Jordan shape but I didn't know that Ward's had one too. Morgan, unlike Ward, was fully capable of casting vises so I'm going to assume that Morgan made them all. However, going by catalog illustrations can be misleading. Look at these two catalog pages. The first one is from a 1917 Prentiss catalog and the other is from a 1918 Buhl & Sons catalog. Buhl was a hardware company in Detroit. They just put their name on the Prentiss illustration. I've seen that kind of stuff many times in old catalogs.

 

[marine-mp]

Smitty, that’s some collection!! I imagine there’s a story behind each one of those puppies!! Good-on-yeh!!! Semper-fi & This We’ll Defend, Mike

 

[PierceA]

MayerMR: Yes, the 449 is a larger version of the 439.

I'm sure you are aware of the Vice Information Spreadsheet: ??

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...YI7UKRpUd3aheAE86KBQRBGb9s/edit#gid=666157805

If not, it is a wealth of information. From it I discovered that a Parker 839 exists. It has 4" jaws and my 449 has 4-1/2" jaws.
The 474 has 3-3/4" jaws.

PierceA

 

[PierceA]

Smitty: Are you SURE that those 'Baby Bullets' are not mature and old enough to procreate? It sure looks like when you turn out the lights. they are multiplying??

PierceA

 

[Shiftless]

smitty, that's a beautiful collection! I dont want to hijack the thread but that looks like a significant dollar value there based on what the members here have said. Is that something you would insure? Or just document for homeowners policy?

I asked our insurance agent the same question. He said that if it’s a collection you’d have to insure that with an additional rider. If it’s just a bunch of tools that you use, your homeowners insurance would cover it. But check with your agent about limits for tools.
Somehow I ended up with an accumulation of about 100 bench vises. I’m not sure I could keep a straight face while I claimed they were tools that I use instead of being a collection.

Smitty:
Once again...you’ve got an amazing collection of baby bullets. All the more impressive is the fact that most of them are still in original paint.

 

[Old Radar]

I asked our insurance agent the same question. He said that if it’s a collection you’d have to insure that with an additional rider. If it’s just a bunch of tools that you use, your homeowners insurance would cover it. But check with your agent about limits for tools.
Somehow I ended up with an accumulation of about 100 bench vises. I’m not sure I could keep a straight face while I claimed they were tools that I use instead of being a collection.

On the other hand, you could probably catch whoever was trying to steal them collapsed on your driveway with only half of them loaded!

 

[RBarnes]

Smitty,
Amazing collection of the Wilton baby Bullets!

 

[Vise]

Smitty - that is a significant collection of baby vises. Very impressive stuff.

RBarnes- tell us more about that awesome railroad stand! What’s the date stamp on the 108R? Are there any other bolt holes in the top plate of the stand? I have a theory that the railroad stands with 4 bolt holes in the base are a little lighter than the ones with 6 bolt holes in the base. My guess is that stand you have is a little over 600 lbs on its own. Have you weighed it? Great pick up.

 

[RBarnes]

8th

RBarnes- tell us more about that awesome railroad stand! What’s the date stamp on the 108R? Are there any other bolt holes in the top plate of the stand? I have a theory that the railroad stands with 4 bolt holes in the base are a little lighter than the ones with 6 bolt holes in the base. My guess is that stand you have is a little over 600 lbs on its own. Have you weighed it? Great pick up.

VISE
Glad you saw the posting with the image I had promised you, could not figure out how to send a photo through private messaging.

Thank you for the kind words. I have not found a date code on the vise. The bright fluorescent lights in the shop have my phone taking photos that look brighter and lighter than this looks in real life, especially the Red on the vise - it is RED not orange red. The close up photo is closer to the real Red color.

The base only has two holes in it. Guessing the four holes in the front edge of the top plate on the stand were to mount something that has long since disappeared from the stand. I have not weighed it, but it is HEAVY. Does the 1621 cast embossed number on the stand mean anything specifically - weight, size, or railroad origin?

A really good friend just let me have this set up - Friends Don't Let Friends Use Low Quality Foreign Made Vises

 

[Vise]

What a good friend! Can you provide some dimensions on the stand when you get a chance? Like the measures and thickness of the top and the height. Congrats again!

 

[RBarnes]

What a good friend! Can you provide some dimensions on the stand when you get a chance? Like the measures and thickness of the top and the height. Congrats again!

Looking at the enlarged image of a railroad stand in this old photo, I can see it also has 1621 cast on the side. I would imagine all of the stands cast with 1621 weigh about the same?

 

[Shiftless]

Could the 1621 be a weight marking such as on anvils?

edit: Probably not. Anvil weights are 3 digit numbers with the first number being hundredweight.

If it was 16 hundredweight and then 2 quarter hundredweight and the. 1 pound, that stand would weigh about a ton.

It looks really big but not that big.

 

[Outlawmws]

Awesome collection of BB's Smitty!

 

[Shiftless]

A really good friend just let me have this set up - Friends Don't Let Friends Use Low Quality Foreign Made Vises

I agree

 

[CRSINMICH]

Hey i'm new here.

Hi, m8tyres: Do you have any vices or vice information to share with us?


Where did you go?

 

[Vise]

Looking at the enlarged image of a railroad stand in this old photo, I can see it also has 1621 cast on the side. I would imagine all of the stands cast with 1621 weigh about the same?

The "1621" marking is a bit of a mystery. Mine has "1621V" marked on it and the top plate is 15" x 27" x 2.25". I've seen others marked "1621" or "T1621" where the top is a little smaller: 14" x 26" x 1.75". There really hasn't been much history uncovered on these stands.

Fierljeppen - Do you have any insight on these railroad stands (aka "Roundhouse Vise Stands")? I've just seen that one catalog page.

 

[MayerMR]

MayerMR: Thanks. I knew there are many variations of the Jordan shape but I didn't know that Ward's had one too. Morgan, unlike Ward, was fully capable of casting vises so I'm going to assume that Morgan made them all. However, going by catalog illustrations can be misleading. Look at these two catalog pages. The first one is from a 1917 Prentiss catalog and the other is from a 1918 Buhl & Sons catalog. Buhl was a hardware company in Detroit. They just put their name on the Prentiss illustration. I've seen that kind of stuff many times in old catalogs.

I think that's a fair enough judgment call to make, though I've never personally seen a "homeowner's grade" vise with Morgan markings. I wouldn't be surprised if Morgan partnered with the same company that made these streamliner-type vises to have an offering at the lower-end of the market without having to tool-up for it.

MayerMR: Yes, the 449 is a larger version of the 439.

I'm sure you are aware of the Vice Information Spreadsheet: ??

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...YI7UKRpUd3aheAE86KBQRBGb9s/edit#gid=666157805

If not, it is a wealth of information. From it I discovered that a Parker 839 exists. It has 4" jaws and my 449 has 4-1/2" jaws.
The 474 has 3-3/4" jaws.

PierceA

Pierce,

Thank you, yes I am aware of the sheet, but admittedly it didn't even cross my mind when I posted the question. I was curious about that 839 you mentioned and for some reason, I'm not seeing it in the spreadsheet?

 

[Smitty]

Thanks guys for the kind words.

 

[dannyr]

You're all 'going large' or baby at the moment but here are a couple of mid-sizey 3.5in wide jaws.

However they're over 100 (I believe) and a bit different -- both from the moorland in our the county of Yorkshire in northern England.

First the 'fast-grip' which has a short tommy bar for the fast with <3thrpi and a grip with the concentric ~7thrpi wrought built in beater bar - patented 1902, made by George Harrison (many decades before he joined some pop group) of Ripon. 3.5in opening, 44lbs weight (has lost a casting extension which partly protected the thread).

And second an un-named vise that looks like a transition between smiths vice and the cast type (main parts are cast) - in this case a bigger opening at 4.5 ins and 37.5lbs (has an ancient weld repair of good quality, but not dressed much) -- this one was bought a couple of miles away from the Parkinson works near Bradford and was previously owned by 'a mechanic in an industrial sewing machine factory' (that was Parkinson's business before turning to machine tools and vises).

I've never seen either of these types before.

Both still work fine

Any US equivalents? (respectively $100 and $20).

 

[Fierljeppen]

The "1621" marking is a bit of a mystery. Mine has "1621V" marked on it and the top plate is 15" x 27" x 2.25". I've seen others marked "1621" or "T1621" where the top is a little smaller: 14" x 26" x 1.75". There really hasn't been much history uncovered on these stands.

Fierljeppen - Do you have any insight on these railroad stands (aka "Roundhouse Vise Stands")? I've just seen that one catalog page.

The only new insight I have on those particular vise stands is that I want one really bad! To the few lucky owners of that stand, I don't like you anymore.

<hr>

You're all 'going large' or baby at the moment but here are a couple of mid-sizey 3.5in wide jaws.

However they're over 100 (I believe) and a bit different -- both from the moorland in our the county of Yorkshire in northern England.

First the 'fast-grip' which has a short tommy bar for the fast with <3thrpi and a grip with the concentric ~7thrpi wrought built in beater bar - patented 1902, made by George Harrison (many decades before he joined some pop group) of Ripon. 3.5in opening, 44lbs weight (has lost a casting extension which partly protected the thread).

And second an un-named vise that looks like a transition between smiths vice and the cast type (main parts are cast) - in this case a bigger opening at 4.5 ins and 37.5lbs (has an ancient weld repair of good quality, but not dressed much) -- this one was bought a couple of miles away from the Parkinson works near Bradford and was previously owned by 'a mechanic in an industrial sewing machine factory' (that was Parkinson's business before turning to machine tools and vises).

I've never seen either of these types before.

Both still work fine

Any US equivalents? (respectively $100 and $20).

Very interesting vices that I've never seen before. They look very foreign to me.

<hr>

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

First the 'fast-grip' which has a short tommy bar for the fast with <3thrpi and a grip with the concentric ~7thrpi wrought built in beater bar - patented 1902, made by George Harrison (many decades before he joined some pop group) of Ripon. 3.5in opening, 44lbs weight (has lost a casting extension which partly protected the thread).

Similar concept to the HyLo "speed vise" for milling machines. Wonder if it uses the same patent. The HyLos have a spring that automatically engages the fine thread when loaded, rather than having two separate levers.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[CRSINMICH]

I think that's a fair enough judgment call to make, though I've never personally seen a "homeowner's grade" vise with Morgan markings. I wouldn't be surprised if Morgan partnered with the same company that made these streamliner-type vises to have an offering at the lower-end of the market without having to tool-up for it.

MayerMR: You may be right about that but here are two Morgan branded homeowner's vises. These may have been farmed out too. Who knows?

The second one is marked MAJESTIC but on the included 1958 list of vise makers, Morgan and Majestic have the same address. Yet one more pitfall of trying to identify vise manufacturers.

Also, notice Jordan Welding & Mfg. of Cleveland

 

[Fierljeppen]

MayerMR: Thanks. I knew there are many variations of the Jordan shape but I didn't know that Ward's had one too. Morgan, unlike Ward, was fully capable of casting vises so I'm going to assume that Morgan made them all. However, going by catalog illustrations can be misleading. Look at these two catalog pages. The first one is from a 1917 Prentiss catalog and the other is from a 1918 Buhl & Sons catalog. Buhl was a hardware company in Detroit. They just put their name on the Prentiss illustration. I've seen that kind of stuff many times in old catalogs.

I think that's a fair enough judgment call to make, though I've never personally seen a "homeowner's grade" vise with Morgan markings. I wouldn't be surprised if Morgan partnered with the same company that made these streamliner-type vises to have an offering at the lower-end of the market without having to tool-up for it.

MayerMR: You may be right about that but here are two Morgan branded homeowner's vises. These may have been farmed out too. Who knows?

The second one is marked MAJESTIC but on the included 1958 list of vise makers, Morgan and Majestic have the same address. Yet one more pitfall of trying to identify vise manufacturers.

Also, notice Jordan Welding & Mfg. of Cleveland

My notes show the Morgan Vise Co. as the most likely mfg. of all the vises you've been mentioning. The Ward's Master Quality vise looks just like the "Streamliner" and "Jordan" vises. It was listed at the same time Morgan was supplying Montgomery Ward with their machinists vises.

Could the Morgan Vise Co. have farmed out homeowner vises? Anything is possible, but I haven't been able to find any references to substantiate that yet.

As far as the Jordan Welding & Mfg. of Cleveland, Sydney W. Jordan, the founder of the said company had a patent vise that he mfg., but it doesn't look anything like the "Streamliner". (see attached patent)

 

[PierceA]

MayerMR: I've looked back several pages and have not found a post where I mentioned a Parker 839. Undoubtably I made an error in writing. And used an erroneous number.
Sorry for any confusion.

PierceA

 

[Outlawmws]

Guys, don't forget Parker made a "streamline" vise as well... I have a #63-1/2

 

[wrenchguy]

MayerMR: I've looked back several pages and have not found a post where I mentioned a Parker 839. Undoubtably I made an error in writing. And used an erroneous number.
Sorry for any confusion.

PierceA

Your post 82697, 839 mentioned but i took it as meaning a 439 which is a tuff 1 to find.