lol I had to google Gandy dancer to figure out what you were talking about. so you think it may be a replacement for what originally came with the vise or that was how it was made?
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
lol I had to google Gandy dancer to figure out what you were talking about. so you think it may be a replacement for what originally came with the vise or that was how it was made?
Man that would be great. I see yours has removable jaw pads. mine does not I wonder if that was added later or just another version they offered? according to this add from 1869 there were many varieties to choose from.
Is yours attached to the bench with the original bolt made to go in that slot? I would love some diminsions on that thing. I can make one that will work but would like to know how the originals were made
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I can tell by looking at your vise that it’s a very early model, probably late 1800’s.I believe that Prentiss simply didn’t mark their first generation vises. The original Prentiss vises didn’t have model numbers, they were sold by description.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Originally posted by Rmnewcom
Is yours attached to the bench with the original bolt made to go in that slot? I would love some dimensions on that thing. I can make one that will work but would like to know how the originals were made.
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Was probably a large square head bolt that tightened down on the vise's base when you tightened the large nut underneath the bench.---Loosen and change the vise's position then retighten, kind of a primitive swivel base if you will.
Is yours attached to the bench with the original bolt made to go in that slot? I would love some dimensions on that thing. I can make one that will work but would like to know how the originals were made.
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Was probably a large square head bolt that tightened down on the vise's base when you tightened the large nut underneath the bench.---Loosen and change the vise's position then retighten, kind of a primitive swivel base if you will.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Pierce, forgot to give you acknowledgement for another fine Unicorn with that unique swiveling base and also that rare little Athol.---That is awsome.---Couldn't be many examples of these, what looks like 1 offs like you and Zoomie keep dragging in.---They're collectors dreams.
I picked up a Wilton 4" Machinist vice a couple of weeks ago for $50. It needed a good cleaning because it was covered in rust. A little cleaning and paint made it good as new. I made some aluminum jaws for it and new nuts for the hold down. It's a great vise to use.
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va.grouseman
Well-known member
Anybody ever seen one of these that wasn't a table clamp vise.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3532904027...MIxbC-i4Do7gIVAeKzCh3WrgmYEAQYASABEgJIx_D_BwE
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3532904027...MIxbC-i4Do7gIVAeKzCh3WrgmYEAQYASABEgJIx_D_BwE
propmaker
Well-known member
Here are a few Vises I picked up today. I got the Woden, Rock Island and some home made trammels for 20.00. He said the Parker was not for sale, so I offered 40 and he handed me the tools to remove it from the bench 
I love the look of the Parker.
I love the look of the Parker.
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Fretters
Well-known member
I'd be saying they all class as keepers over here. How oft are you likely to drop on *any* swivel jaw, especially, across here? The Parkinson's, for example, are harder to find than rocking horse turds.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
I'd be saying they all class as keepers over here. How oft are you likely to drop on *any* swivel jaw, especially, across here? The Parkinson's, for example, are harder to find than rocking horse turds.
, Dannyr.---You're probably a lot luckier than you think snagging those particular vises.---Once you unload them you'll probably have sellers remorse.va.grouseman
Well-known member
dannyr
Well-known member
We-e-ell - doesn't take a lot of persuading by you and fretters - so bang goes the 'one in one out' rule I agreed with myself. But I have arranged to donate some others to a local museum, when this Covid eases, so maybe then I'll be able to buy some big fellas again (the rule doesn't apply to 'baby' sized vises).
Oh and how old is the Athol?
PierceA
Well-known member
PSCo: I have a fairly early Prentiss Coachmaker's vise. The swivel base central bolt is just like your's: A thin square head and a cast shaped heavy washer.
I thought that this was a 'make-do' from a previous owner. Just some random bolt and washer found to replace the correct one.
But seeing your's mine must be original. Too much coincidence to have two virtually identical 'oddball' swivel base bolts.
Question: does your square headed bolt have any form of a sleeve to tighten against the base of the vise body? Mine does not, hence it could be tightened too much and seize the swivel base from turning when the pin is lifted.
Most swivel base bolts on other makes and later vises have a shoulder or sleeve on the bolt to tighten the bolt against, and still leaves the base with some clearance to be able to swivel.
Very nice early vise.. I too have several vises that have virtually NO markings of any sort. Seems odd that in the days before decals and self-adhesive stickers that the manufacturers would miss the opportunity to show and advertise their vise or other products in the workplace.
PierceA
Images of an odd side screw or offset vise. Not a single marking on it. Well made and has the original pipe jaw. There is one of these shown earlier in this very long thread, a few years ago I think. But it too has no markings that I remember..
It would be REALLY cool if one of the brochure and advertising gurus here could find an ad for this vise. !!
I thought that this was a 'make-do' from a previous owner. Just some random bolt and washer found to replace the correct one.
But seeing your's mine must be original. Too much coincidence to have two virtually identical 'oddball' swivel base bolts.
Question: does your square headed bolt have any form of a sleeve to tighten against the base of the vise body? Mine does not, hence it could be tightened too much and seize the swivel base from turning when the pin is lifted.
Most swivel base bolts on other makes and later vises have a shoulder or sleeve on the bolt to tighten the bolt against, and still leaves the base with some clearance to be able to swivel.
Very nice early vise.. I too have several vises that have virtually NO markings of any sort. Seems odd that in the days before decals and self-adhesive stickers that the manufacturers would miss the opportunity to show and advertise their vise or other products in the workplace.
PierceA
Images of an odd side screw or offset vise. Not a single marking on it. Well made and has the original pipe jaw. There is one of these shown earlier in this very long thread, a few years ago I think. But it too has no markings that I remember..
It would be REALLY cool if one of the brochure and advertising gurus here could find an ad for this vise. !!
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PierceA
Well-known member
VA Grouseman: Thanks for the mention about my Athol 10/base and the Cheney swivel jaw. I have had some luck with finding the occasional 'unicorn'. .
But I'd hardly consider you or your collection without many, MANY 'unicorns'. That infamous [in my mind] wood picnic table that you photograph your vises on is etched into my memory with the emotional thought of: ' Oh ****, here comes ANOTHER rare and cool vise from Va '.
You extensive collection never fails to amaze me..
PierceA
Below images of what I thought was another 'no name' vise. But a week or so ago I was rearranging the pile to make room for more acquisitions, and the light caught the side of this vise just right and I saw a hint of lettering. Some scotchbrite and here it is: This no name is actually a Hollands vise.. I cannot find this Hollands vise in the Spreadsheet.
So: Kevin, let me know if you want more dimensions and a weight..
. But I'd hardly consider you or your collection without many, MANY 'unicorns'. That infamous [in my mind] wood picnic table that you photograph your vises on is etched into my memory with the emotional thought of: ' Oh ****, here comes ANOTHER rare and cool vise from Va '.
You extensive collection never fails to amaze me..
PierceA
Below images of what I thought was another 'no name' vise. But a week or so ago I was rearranging the pile to make room for more acquisitions, and the light caught the side of this vise just right and I saw a hint of lettering. Some scotchbrite and here it is: This no name is actually a Hollands vise.. I cannot find this Hollands vise in the Spreadsheet.
So: Kevin, let me know if you want more dimensions and a weight..
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PierceA
Well-known member
An 'ugly duckling' story:
I found this Reed vise in a pawn/resale shop. it was incredibly dirty. A 1/4" to in some areas 3/8" thick layer of grinding dust cemented to the vise by either oils or I think misted water based coolant in a machine shop. It was literally crusty. If it was an oil that cemented it into the 'crust' it must have been baked to solidify.
At the resale shop I could not even read the name or number. The price on it was already reasonable, so I took my pocket knife and gently, then more forcibly scraped over the lump in the crust to reveal the name and size..
Then I took it home and took a few days to chip off the crust and clean the vise.. This was before I had read about and started to use a hot bath of Simple Green to soak off such grime.
What a transformation !! This vise must have been put into this environment early in it's life, since the vise does not have much hammer or hack saw damage to it.
PierceA
I found this Reed vise in a pawn/resale shop. it was incredibly dirty. A 1/4" to in some areas 3/8" thick layer of grinding dust cemented to the vise by either oils or I think misted water based coolant in a machine shop. It was literally crusty. If it was an oil that cemented it into the 'crust' it must have been baked to solidify.
At the resale shop I could not even read the name or number. The price on it was already reasonable, so I took my pocket knife and gently, then more forcibly scraped over the lump in the crust to reveal the name and size..
Then I took it home and took a few days to chip off the crust and clean the vise.. This was before I had read about and started to use a hot bath of Simple Green to soak off such grime.
What a transformation !! This vise must have been put into this environment early in it's life, since the vise does not have much hammer or hack saw damage to it.
PierceA
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Shiftless
Well-known member
va:
Thanks for posting those pics. Your Columbian Streamliner looks great!
PierceA:
That was a great score. The filth protected the metal quite nicely!
Propmaker:
Wow, you got a real steal on those vises! You ****!
Speaking of unusual vises...
There aren’t too many Franklins around. I have about 20 different brand names on my vise shelves but only one Franklin.
I just finished cleaning this one up yesterday.
.
Thanks for posting those pics. Your Columbian Streamliner looks great!
PierceA:
That was a great score. The filth protected the metal quite nicely!
Propmaker:
Wow, you got a real steal on those vises! You ****!
Speaking of unusual vises...
There aren’t too many Franklins around. I have about 20 different brand names on my vise shelves but only one Franklin.
I just finished cleaning this one up yesterday.
.
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Fierljeppen
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 1,159
The Athol no.93 was advertised from the 1880's to around 1920. Almost all of the major American vise mfgs. exported to Europe, so it should not be strange to find them in your vice expeditions.
There is one vise in particular that I'd love to see you find. The "Holy Grail" Pittsburgh Automatic Vise Co. Railroad vise. It was exported to England, as seen in the following trade journal articles below.
A find like that would elevate you from an already high status to a legendary status instantly. I couldn't even imagine how many "vise-points" that would bring you.
Blessings to you and your followers on your journey for "The Holy Grail".
<hr>
That is a really nice find! It's a rare Bonney patent no. 357,306 combination vise. The patent is all about the swiveling front jaw, which is still intact on your vise.
Although this was originally mfg. by Bonney, it eventually became a Charles Parker vise. Your vise looks all Bonney to me.
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KMScott
Well-known member
Thanks Pierce, dimensions, model number if you can find one would be great, if not I will list it first in the Holland section. More pics if possible.
Kevin
MayerMR
Well-known member
That is a really nice find! It's a rare Bonney patent no. 357,306 combination vise. The patent is all about the swiveling front jaw, which is still intact on your vise.
Although this was originally mfg. by Bonney, it eventually became a Charles Parker vise. Your vise looks all Bonney to me.
I had a feeling that you'd have the ad scan for that vise, Fierljeppan!
That said, if you look at the base on his vise, it looks more like the Parker version than the Bonney version, but it lacks the shelf on the rear jaw. Maybe a transition model?
dannyr
Well-known member
Thanks yet again for your depth of knowledge Fierljeppen.
That Pittsbirgh Railroad is something else.
I was thinking they did a good sales job selling in Newlay (part of Leeds these days - one of the many cities around here manufacturing for the railraods - Doncaster, Leeds, York and Sheffield amongst others) -- because at that time the major vise makers were within 30 miles ---- BUT , nothing the size of those.
(I think the Record and Woden ~700-1000lbs weight floor standing vises were made later, although Parkinson did have one earlier giant especially for the wire rope industry).
I'm on the lookout, Newlay is 40 minutes from here.
That Pittsbirgh Railroad is something else.
I was thinking they did a good sales job selling in Newlay (part of Leeds these days - one of the many cities around here manufacturing for the railraods - Doncaster, Leeds, York and Sheffield amongst others) -- because at that time the major vise makers were within 30 miles ---- BUT , nothing the size of those.
(I think the Record and Woden ~700-1000lbs weight floor standing vises were made later, although Parkinson did have one earlier giant especially for the wire rope industry).
I'm on the lookout, Newlay is 40 minutes from here.
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PierceA
Well-known member
Hi Kevin, since I've not submitted images or specs intended to go into the [wonderful ! ] spreadsheet before: Do you want me to post all info and images here so they are linkable from the spreadsheet?
Or do you prefer a message to you and you set up a page or posting ?
PierceA
Or do you prefer a message to you and you set up a page or posting ?
PierceA
PierceA
Well-known member
Fierljeppen and MayerMR.
I agree that the images do look identical to my oddball vise: but ONLY if looking at the images in a mirror !!
My vise has the screw on the right side of the slide and jaws.. And the ones from Bonney and later Parker are mirror images, the screw on the left side..
So: maybe in the literature there is a comment that either a left or right hand version is available by buyer's choice? or mine is still a mystery..
I have to say it is visually close enough that I'd want to measure everything to see if anything is different size..
More thoughts? And THANKS !
PierceA
I agree that the images do look identical to my oddball vise: but ONLY if looking at the images in a mirror !!
My vise has the screw on the right side of the slide and jaws.. And the ones from Bonney and later Parker are mirror images, the screw on the left side..
So: maybe in the literature there is a comment that either a left or right hand version is available by buyer's choice? or mine is still a mystery..
I have to say it is visually close enough that I'd want to measure everything to see if anything is different size..
More thoughts? And THANKS !
PierceA
Fierljeppen
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 1,159
Shiftless...Welcome to "the Franklin Club"!
<hr>
KMScott/PierceA...That Hollands vise is a mystery vise. The vise PierceA has a different base than mine and I'm not sure if it's really old or contemporary for the Hollands Mfg. Co.
Does anyone have a catalog scan of this vise?
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MayerMR...I'm pretty sure it's an old Bonney vise, maybe transitional? I found an old 1894 catalog scan with a Parker version, so that would mean Bonney only mfg. these vises for a short time? The Parker vises had a spindle collar and the traditional Parker vise jaws.
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PierceA...In my opinion, catalog and magazine illustrations are a guide and not the rule. The illustrations back then were actually carvings made by artists, so any changes would have been quite expensive to make. If you pay attention to the patent, I think you'll see it describes your vise.
If you still feel less than cozy about this vise, I'd be more than happy to make a trade for this one.
<hr>
<hr>
KMScott/PierceA...That Hollands vise is a mystery vise. The vise PierceA has a different base than mine and I'm not sure if it's really old or contemporary for the Hollands Mfg. Co.
Does anyone have a catalog scan of this vise?
<hr>
MayerMR...I'm pretty sure it's an old Bonney vise, maybe transitional? I found an old 1894 catalog scan with a Parker version, so that would mean Bonney only mfg. these vises for a short time? The Parker vises had a spindle collar and the traditional Parker vise jaws.
<hr>
PierceA...In my opinion, catalog and magazine illustrations are a guide and not the rule. The illustrations back then were actually carvings made by artists, so any changes would have been quite expensive to make. If you pay attention to the patent, I think you'll see it describes your vise.
If you still feel less than cozy about this vise, I'd be more than happy to make a trade for this one.
<hr>
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PierceA
Well-known member
Thanks for all the info guys. This side-screw vise is an enigma for sure. The more I compare it to the images and scans of brochures the more slight variations I see.
Since I'm such a Parker fan, I'd LOVE to find a Parker version of this vise..
The Parker version shows a pair of pipe jaws in the dynamic jaw. Mine only has a single floating jaw.. The Parker has, due to it's proprietary collar retaining the main screw meatball, a full length bearing in the dynamic for the main screw.
On my vise, the static has the threaded bore for the main screw, the dynamic has one reduced diameter bore bearing casting for the mainscrew. The Mainscrew is turned down some to reduce it's diameter, creating a thrust surface to retract the dynamic, the smaller diameter of the mainscrew going through a smaller bearing bore, then it's pressed into the meatball and pinned in place..
It would be amazing to find one of the Bonney or Parker versions and have these side by side on display, an in the 'flesh' mirror image of each other.. well, almost. .
PierceA.
Since I'm such a Parker fan, I'd LOVE to find a Parker version of this vise..
The Parker version shows a pair of pipe jaws in the dynamic jaw. Mine only has a single floating jaw.. The Parker has, due to it's proprietary collar retaining the main screw meatball, a full length bearing in the dynamic for the main screw.
On my vise, the static has the threaded bore for the main screw, the dynamic has one reduced diameter bore bearing casting for the mainscrew. The Mainscrew is turned down some to reduce it's diameter, creating a thrust surface to retract the dynamic, the smaller diameter of the mainscrew going through a smaller bearing bore, then it's pressed into the meatball and pinned in place..
It would be amazing to find one of the Bonney or Parker versions and have these side by side on display, an in the 'flesh' mirror image of each other.. well, almost.
. PierceA.
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PierceA
Well-known member
Fierljeppan. You never fail to amaze me with your knowledge and amount of reference literature.
I think that these vises that have the two hard steel side bars are like the 'oval-slide' vises we also see around.
Both of these types seem to have been marketed by several companies. The oval slide ones as a less expensive 'homeowners' vise. The Parker version has it's proprietary 'collar' retaining the mainscrew. Other makers had their own features.
This hard steel sided vise I have seen in several other posts on GJ. But I think this is the first one I remember with a name or number stamped on it.. But I certainly don't trust my memory.
I'm going to surmise that this steel sided design and the oval slide vises were offered from a casting and machining company as a product that they would make to the retailer's specs, and make them inexpensively enough that the retailer could make a profit and fill a niche in their product line..
I keep saying 'hard' steel sided vise.. Take a look at the Howards Mfg Co stamp on the side of my vise.. it is CRISP and not very deep at all. [The reason I only recently discovered the stamping under a thin layer of surface rust]. Both indications of a very hard steel. And the edges of the letter imprints still very clear and sharp: another indication of quality hard steel.
My vise is TIGHT.. Very little play either up and down or twisting the two jaws in reference to each other.. very impressive for a riveted together item..
PierceA
I think that these vises that have the two hard steel side bars are like the 'oval-slide' vises we also see around.
Both of these types seem to have been marketed by several companies. The oval slide ones as a less expensive 'homeowners' vise. The Parker version has it's proprietary 'collar' retaining the mainscrew. Other makers had their own features.
This hard steel sided vise I have seen in several other posts on GJ. But I think this is the first one I remember with a name or number stamped on it.. But I certainly don't trust my memory.
I'm going to surmise that this steel sided design and the oval slide vises were offered from a casting and machining company as a product that they would make to the retailer's specs, and make them inexpensively enough that the retailer could make a profit and fill a niche in their product line..
I keep saying 'hard' steel sided vise.. Take a look at the Howards Mfg Co stamp on the side of my vise.. it is CRISP and not very deep at all. [The reason I only recently discovered the stamping under a thin layer of surface rust]. Both indications of a very hard steel. And the edges of the letter imprints still very clear and sharp: another indication of quality hard steel.
My vise is TIGHT.. Very little play either up and down or twisting the two jaws in reference to each other.. very impressive for a riveted together item..
PierceA
PierceA
Well-known member
Bonney or ? Side-screw 'combination'? vise: Is it a combination vise since it has both regular flat or parallel jaws and Pipe jaws?
No names, markings anywhere. This vise is of similar design to the Bonney patented vise but is a mirror image of the patent drawings.
It has 2.5" jaws, opens to 4". Weight is 20#,14oz.. so ~21Pounds.
The base has a central hole and raised reinforced spot cast in. And would at first glance thought to be for adding a swivel base, or a threaded post to go through a bench top to allow swiveling of the mounted vise.. But the hole is NOT threaded. And the hole is offset from center so it would not work well for a pivot for a swivel base..
However, since it is not threaded, and has a raised area around the hole. It could have been an option for fastening the vise down with a through the bench top bolt, that had threads up, through the hole in the base and a nut on top, accessible with an open end wrench?
The last image is from a GJ posting a few years ago. It's the same right-side SideScrew combo vise as mine, but has an additional hole bored in the dynamic just above the mainscrew.
PierceA
No names, markings anywhere. This vise is of similar design to the Bonney patented vise but is a mirror image of the patent drawings.
It has 2.5" jaws, opens to 4". Weight is 20#,14oz.. so ~21Pounds.
The base has a central hole and raised reinforced spot cast in. And would at first glance thought to be for adding a swivel base, or a threaded post to go through a bench top to allow swiveling of the mounted vise.. But the hole is NOT threaded. And the hole is offset from center so it would not work well for a pivot for a swivel base..
However, since it is not threaded, and has a raised area around the hole. It could have been an option for fastening the vise down with a through the bench top bolt, that had threads up, through the hole in the base and a nut on top, accessible with an open end wrench?
The last image is from a GJ posting a few years ago. It's the same right-side SideScrew combo vise as mine, but has an additional hole bored in the dynamic just above the mainscrew.
PierceA
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PierceA
Well-known member
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Fierlj and Pierce. Since both your Hollands are swivel base, I'd say the one with the under-bench wing nut is older, and the one with the bolt down base is newer. Catalog pages if available and dated would verify this.
Shiftless
Well-known member
outlaw has a good point about relative age. Through the bench mounts are always the older, correct?
Fierljeppen:
Thanks for the welcome! Is that your only one? Do you have any duplicates? Are there any others in our small club of Franklin owners?
Fierljeppen:
Thanks for the welcome! Is that your only one? Do you have any duplicates? Are there any others in our small club of Franklin owners?
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
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Fierljeppen
Well-known member
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- 1,159
I agree about the under-bench wing nut being older, it's just that I don't have a clue when this vise was mfg. I've searched near and far, looking for a dated catalog scan of this model...zilch. For now, we'll go with unknown Hollands model, manufactured from (1890's-1940's).
It is my only Franklin and I generally do not collect duplicates. The Franklin vise got my attention after doing a little research about the company. The story and company history, make this vise a little more interesting to me.
Nice to see CRSINMICH in this club!
Shiftless
Well-known member
CRS:
Thanks for posting yours.
We’ve got at least 3 members now...you, me, and fierljeppen. And 3 different sizes.
We could meet up and have a family reunion some day.
Fierljeppen:
I know how you feel about duplicates. I sold a duplicate Reed 204 a few months ago.
Shelf space here is getting scarce.
Could you please share your Franklin history? CRS and I would like to know more.
Thanks for posting yours.
We’ve got at least 3 members now...you, me, and fierljeppen. And 3 different sizes.
We could meet up and have a family reunion some day.
Fierljeppen:
I know how you feel about duplicates. I sold a duplicate Reed 204 a few months ago.
Shelf space here is getting scarce.
Could you please share your Franklin history? CRS and I would like to know more.
PierceA to PSCo: I have a fairly early Prentiss Coachmaker's vise. The swivel base central bolt is just like your's: A thin square head and a cast shaped heavy washer.
I thought that this was a 'make-do' from a previous owner. Just some random bolt and washer found to replace the correct one.
But seeing your's mine must be original. Too much coincidence to have two virtually identical 'oddball' swivel base bolts.
Question: does your square headed bolt have any form of a sleeve to tighten against the base of the vise body? Mine does not, hence it could be tightened too much and seize the swivel base from turning when the pin is lifted.
Most swivel base bolts on other makes and later vises have a shoulder or sleeve on the bolt to tighten the bolt against, and still leaves the base with some clearance to be able to swivel.
Very nice early vise.. I too have several vises that have virtually NO markings of any sort. Seems odd that in the days before decals and self-adhesive stickers that the manufacturers would miss the opportunity to show and advertise their vise or other products in the workplace.
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Hey PierceA: I took a look at this last night. You don't have to ask me twice to take something apart! First I found that there was about 35-40 thousands of clearance left when the bolt was tight (first pic). This was repeatable: if I backed the bolt off, it would still come to a dead stop each time, giving the same clearance. So then I removed the bolt, cast washer, and swivel plate to see what was going on.
After wiping off everything, I reinstalled the base plate and clamped down (if not clamped, the spring from the locking pin will push the plate from the body). At this point I was confused (it happens) because the center locating boss on the body was about .020" DEEPER than the swivel base (2nd pic). This would mean that, with the bolt fully tightened against the washer, that the swivel should lock up and not turn. However, I knew I had repeatable .035"-.040" clearance.
So, I reinstalled the bolt without the washer and it came to a dead stop again. Prentiss limited the bolt travel by having the end of the bolt make contact at the bottom of the blind hole. A peek into the blind bolt hole revealed what looks like lead (3rd pic). At time of manufacture, they must have devised a way to "set" the base plate clearance this way.
I never would have guessed this way of setting the base clearance (by stopping the bolt in the blind hole), but hey, it worked. One final observation, and I guess you seasoned vise guys can tell me if this is typical: The bolt turns into the threaded hole very tightly the whole way. This appears to be by design (makes sense), and is accomplished by a slight mismatch between the bolt heads and the hole threads? Effective way of keeping the bolt from backing out.
I thought that this was a 'make-do' from a previous owner. Just some random bolt and washer found to replace the correct one.
But seeing your's mine must be original. Too much coincidence to have two virtually identical 'oddball' swivel base bolts.
Question: does your square headed bolt have any form of a sleeve to tighten against the base of the vise body? Mine does not, hence it could be tightened too much and seize the swivel base from turning when the pin is lifted.
Most swivel base bolts on other makes and later vises have a shoulder or sleeve on the bolt to tighten the bolt against, and still leaves the base with some clearance to be able to swivel.
Very nice early vise.. I too have several vises that have virtually NO markings of any sort. Seems odd that in the days before decals and self-adhesive stickers that the manufacturers would miss the opportunity to show and advertise their vise or other products in the workplace.
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Hey PierceA: I took a look at this last night. You don't have to ask me twice to take something apart! First I found that there was about 35-40 thousands of clearance left when the bolt was tight (first pic). This was repeatable: if I backed the bolt off, it would still come to a dead stop each time, giving the same clearance. So then I removed the bolt, cast washer, and swivel plate to see what was going on.
After wiping off everything, I reinstalled the base plate and clamped down (if not clamped, the spring from the locking pin will push the plate from the body). At this point I was confused (it happens) because the center locating boss on the body was about .020" DEEPER than the swivel base (2nd pic). This would mean that, with the bolt fully tightened against the washer, that the swivel should lock up and not turn. However, I knew I had repeatable .035"-.040" clearance.
So, I reinstalled the bolt without the washer and it came to a dead stop again. Prentiss limited the bolt travel by having the end of the bolt make contact at the bottom of the blind hole. A peek into the blind bolt hole revealed what looks like lead (3rd pic). At time of manufacture, they must have devised a way to "set" the base plate clearance this way.
I never would have guessed this way of setting the base clearance (by stopping the bolt in the blind hole), but hey, it worked. One final observation, and I guess you seasoned vise guys can tell me if this is typical: The bolt turns into the threaded hole very tightly the whole way. This appears to be by design (makes sense), and is accomplished by a slight mismatch between the bolt heads and the hole threads? Effective way of keeping the bolt from backing out.
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Quote Rmnew: Man that would be great. I see yours has removable jaw pads. mine does not I wonder if that was added later or just another version they offered? according to this add from 1869 there were many varieties to choose from.
Is yours attached to the bench with the original bolt made to go in that slot? I would love some diminsions on that thing. I can make one that will work but would like to know how the originals were made[/QUOTE]
Hey Rmnewcom, I will take a look at this vise today. I'm guessing that the jaws were added here in our machine shop at some point. I'll take some dims on the handle, and see how it's fastened to the table.
Hey PierceA: Addendum to the Prentess swivel-base bolt story: There's always the chance that, over the eons, someone could have devised the "blind hole bolt stop" and it wasn't a Prentiss thing, but I sort of doubt it. The vise just looks like it was never messed with.
Is yours attached to the bench with the original bolt made to go in that slot? I would love some diminsions on that thing. I can make one that will work but would like to know how the originals were made[/QUOTE]
Hey Rmnewcom, I will take a look at this vise today. I'm guessing that the jaws were added here in our machine shop at some point. I'll take some dims on the handle, and see how it's fastened to the table.
Hey PierceA: Addendum to the Prentess swivel-base bolt story: There's always the chance that, over the eons, someone could have devised the "blind hole bolt stop" and it wasn't a Prentiss thing, but I sort of doubt it. The vise just looks like it was never messed with.
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RTM
Well-known member
Too much of a coincidence. I was playing with a small clamp on vise yesterday, and found it had the same issue. The swivel was kept from locking up by a 3/4" long 5/16-18 bolt bottoming out in the hole in the bottom of the vise.
Of course, I didn't have a bolt with a small enough head. If found this out after I cut a 1" SHCS to 3/4", (as it was late on a Sunday afternoon, with no time to drive to the hardware store) and the bolt head blocks the clamp from hitting the smooth area of the clamp on.
Fierljeppen
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 1,159
Here's a link from the "Vise Info Thread" that gives a really brief synopsis of The Franklin Tool Co.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8564524&postcount=1538
While you're there, sit back and relax for a while, KMScott is the host and the first shot and beer are on the house. Oh yeah, the pub burgers are to die for!
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Shiftless
Well-known member
Thanks Fierljeppen, that was delicious.
PierceA
Well-known member
PSCo: Thanks for digging into your vise's swivel bolt. I'll go look at mine and see if there is any trace of lead in the bottom of the threaded hole in my vise.. And since that is a good method, I may duplicate it to 'fix' my vise's swivel bolt.. I was going to turn a sleeve..
We'll see, the hole might be a through-hole in my vise..
Thanks for the thorough look and posting the info.
PierceA
We'll see, the hole might be a through-hole in my vise..
Thanks for the thorough look and posting the info.
PierceA
MJOPE
Well-known member
An old vise my dad had attached to a bench that had been in storage for years. I dug it out and took some pics. I think it’s an old Craftsman. I’m thinking I may restore it. Any ideas on how old it is and what it might be worth? I don’t plan to sell just curious. Also, any thoughts on how to get the paint off the Craftsman plate? Thanks...
