Anyone here bought a tool box with a lien against it?

[ive]

Hi all.

I was looking at used tool chests on Facebook marketplace and was wondering if anyone has been involved in a lien type scenario. Some guys there say they are downsizing or getting divorced etc.

How does a guy do his due diligence? Amy stories greatly appreciated.

 

[Whitworth]

How would one place a lien against property that lacks a title ? Do you go down to the local county office to transfer ownership of a tool box ? No. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Do a search on the topic. It's been discussed at length.

 

[ChefRex]

If it's a tool truck box I think you would want to contact the company with the numbers of the box, it may not have a title but it is their property till it's payed off.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You can call snap on and ask if there is a loan/credit against a specific serial number.

The boxes have no title, and are not registered per say. Having spoken with truck drivers, they claim they will reclaim their property. I don't believe they have an actual legal right to do that. It would be up to a judge I suppose. I'm in the US. Canadian law may differ. I would make a bill of sale for anything above a obviously used box.

If you're concerned, ask the seller. If you're really concerned - call the 1800 number or ask your driver. The seller purchased a box, with an unsecured loan. While the item can be repossessed, there is not a lien against it in the way a house/car/boat would have one. The serial number is entered into their database when the paperwork is signed.

 

[Tinner]

It's the seller's problem, not yours. Buy it if you like the deal.

 

[LOW1]

In most states to obtain a lien on personal property like a toolbox a creditor has the debtor sign what is called a "security agreement" and then files a "financing statement " with the state secretary of state's office.

 

[1982fxr]

I knew these guys...

Person A deadbeat owes tool truck driver $$$ never gonna pay.

Tool truck driver offers person B some money to get tools back.

Person B does.

Police come looking for person B.

Unfortunately I don't know exactly what happened after that. Not a big fan of person B.

 

[Lucid Moments]

So you can file a lien on non-titled property by filing a form called a UCC-1. In Georgia I believe it is filed with the office of the Secretary of State. Different states may file them with different departments, but the form is the same. Personally I doubt that the tool trucks get a UCC-1 and file it. It only really helps them in a bankruptcy situation anyway. Also in Georgia it is actually a crime to sell mortgaged collateral. I have never heard of anyone charged with that crime, but it is on the books.

All of that has to do with the person that originally bought the box anyway. If you buy one second hand I really don't quite know how that would work out. For one thing how would the tool truck company find you? Maybe if you work in the same shop as the guy that sold the box, but short of that? Also, do toolboxes actually have serial number? I genuinely don't know having never had a tool truck toolbox. But if they don't then how can the box be identified?

 

[Fatboy148]

Also, do toolboxes actually have serial number? I genuinely don't know having never had a tool truck toolbox. But if they don't then how can the box be identified?

I can't speak for others but I have Williams boxes and each have a factory sticker on the back that provides the following:

Plant where it was made
Model #
Serial #
Configuration of the drawers
Paint color name and number
Patents that were used in construction

AND a Statement, "Do Not Remove"

 

[dmdc411]

A little searching for any type of numbers. A little sanding, filler, paint, covers up stuff. It's not like you stole it! I removed the emblems, and the sticker from my Harbor Freight boxes. Not giving any free advertising.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[RKA]

I just asked the seller to provide proof that the box was paid for free and clear. He had no problem contacting his dealer to print out his account. I just didn’t want to deal with any situation where someone else wasn’t getting rightfully paid on a loan, regardless of what the law does or does not prescribe.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

A little searching for any type of numbers. A little sanding, filler, paint, covers up stuff. It's not like you stole it! I removed the emblems, and the sticker from my Harbor Freight boxes. Not giving any free advertising.

Nah, you're just embarrassed!

 

[gerryw]

I bought a used classic 96 , while i did get a bill of sale, i honestly didnt care!
Its in my garage, they will never find it !

Gerry

 

[lugnut71]

I have a very good snap-on dealer, that being said they cant take the box if they cant find it. However if it shows up they can and will take it. I have seen it several times. Most guys are humble and admit the guilt and give it up. Seen one where he filed bankruptcy and told dealer he couldnt have it, so that one is a waiting game until court is over. Seen new guys move in from another state and want to start buying tools, once new dealer gets him in the system finds out he owes snap-on lots of money and hasnt made payment for two years, been looking for him, In that case he agreed to start making payments.

 

[Lucid Moments]

I have a very good snap-on dealer, that being said they cant take the box if they cant find it. However if it shows up they can and will take it. I have seen it several times. Most guys are humble and admit the guilt and give it up. Seen one where he filed bankruptcy and told dealer he couldnt have it, so that one is a waiting game until court is over. Seen new guys move in from another state and want to start buying tools, once new dealer gets him in the system finds out he owes snap-on lots of money and hasnt made payment for two years, been looking for him, In that case he agreed to start making payments.

The bankruptcy case the snap on dealer probably won't get it legally. It depends on if the dealer "perfected" his lien by filing a financing statement (UCC-1). While the bankruptcy is ongoing the dealer can't even ask about it.

 

[SamuraiJack]

I think the purchase should be complete with the tool truck rep there. Where you hand the money directly to the rep. I believe that the loans are secured against the box, someone would have to dig up an agreement to verify.

Based on my limited legal knowledge the box (if they find it) could be repossessed and you would have to go after the seller in small claims court to get your money back. Which all sounds hard and not something I would want to be in the middle of.

 

[M635_Guy]

I would pass on anything with that potential complexity and murkiness. There's always another box...

 

[anavrinIV]

I bought a used classic 96 , while i did get a bill of sale, i honestly didnt care!
Its in my garage, they will never find it !

Gerry

I recently bought a used KRL off a guy from Facebook and I didn't even think to ask until after I got it home. The good news for me is I'm 100+ miles away and don't work in a shop or have a driver to deal with, and the seller only knows my name (if he still has the chats, I don't remember his).

 

[pfaustus]

So you can file a lien on non-titled property by filing a form called a UCC-1. In Georgia I believe it is filed with the office of the Secretary of State. Different states may file them with different departments, but the form is the same.

UCC = Uniform Commercial Code. One version or another has been adopted in all 50 states (except maybe Louisiana). Whether the buyer or the lienor wins in a Court fight is a bar exam type question.

 

[gerryw]

I recently bought a used KRL off a guy from Facebook and I didn't even think to ask until after I got it home. The good news for me is I'm 100+ miles away and don't work in a shop or have a driver to deal with, and the seller only knows my name (if he still has the chats, I don't remember his).

Thats exactly the same situation as me.
3hrs away.
And really, how much $$$ and manpower is it going to cost SO to come get it?
Funny thing is i only got a bill of sale for the drive home!

Gerry

 

[Wrench97]

Hi all.

I was looking at used tool chests on Facebook marketplace and was wondering if anyone has been involved in a lien type scenario. Some guys there say they are downsizing or getting divorced etc.

How does a guy do his due diligence? Amy stories greatly appreciated.

Ge the Serial number off it and call a Snap On dealer, he tell you in a matter of minuets.

 

[lugnut71]

Yes call snap on and they will tell you. Also they dont start a manhunt for it , 99 percent of the time the debt is just turned over to collections, however if it shows up locally in another shop or for sale, dealer can and will take it. Also around here if there is someone that is in debt to snap on and say gets let go / fired, usually the shop owner gives the local snap on dealer heads up before box /tools are taken out of shop. I guess just out of respect.

 

[dmdc411]

Nah, you're just embarrassed! [emoji38]

Nah, I seen it when I worked in aviation. My $400 Craptsman tool box did the same job as Billy's $4000 box. Now that many of us are no longer employed in that field, I sleep at night knowing the little I spent really doesn't matter! Now, I've upgraded to HF for the garage! Can't beat $700 for China knock offs!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Jazz1]

How would one place a lien against property that lacks a title ? Do you go down to the local county office to transfer ownership of a tool box ? No. I wouldn't worry about it.

Some of those SnapOn tool boxes big enough to come with a Zipcode

 

[Fost9171]

Hi all.

I was looking at used tool chests on Facebook marketplace and was wondering if anyone has been involved in a lien type scenario. Some guys there say they are downsizing or getting divorced etc.

How does a guy do his due diligence? Amy stories greatly appreciated.

Bought a Matco roll-cart and Maximus 2.0, off the Snap-on truck $700.00.
He took it in on trade for a Verus Edge. Used them for about 2 months, went to the Matco guy, and said, hey "how much to update the scanner"? He said about $650.00 for the year. I said damn, that's pretty good my Snap-on Verus Edge is $1240.00. Let's do it. Started to update, came back, as PSA forfeit. Someone bought the roll-cart and scanner on a PSA contract, and defaulted. Matco dealer said, by all rights he should confiscate the cart and scanner. I said, that's fine, what about my $700.00, He has nothing to do with that, he did not sell it to me. Thought I would be nice, and try to pay off the balance. Nope, Matco would not take payment because my name was not on the contract. Matco guy said, hey, you were never on my truck. Take the scanner and go. Sold the cart about a year later, sold the scanner to a guy that was not interested in updating the tool. It worked fine for him. What did I learn, anything with a serial number, you buy used, check it out first. On ebay or marketplace, ask the seller to send you the serial number so you can check with your dealer.

 

[ddawg16]

Or....it's stolen.

Do NOT remove the serial #. That action alone is a felony. Even if it's your own ****....

I'm like everyone else, I want a good deal...but I don't want stolen ****...it means you have someone else's **** that he worked hard for....

 

[Shelbylex]

So, how does removing a serial number sticker from your own box makes it a felony?

... I am glad my boxes are so old they do not even have serial numbers...

 

[2ndGearRubber]

So, how does removing a serial number sticker from your own box makes it a felony?

... I am glad my boxes are so old they do not even have serial numbers...

Especially when the number is also stamped on the box?

Delusional. SWAT team is going to show up for my 1980s KR because I painted it without calling the DMV.

 

[Shelbylex]

Did not know that the boxes are stamped.

I am not a lawyer, but I am not sure how somebody can track down the boxes, especially if it's in a private house.

Would be interesting to get an opinion of a lawyer on this topic instead of multiple different guesses.

 

[magicrat]

If you don’t work in a shop it doesn’t matter. If the box was from a recent transaction and thousands of dollars are owed on it I would b careful. If it’s worth it for them to get it back The law could get involved to repossess. The only way I see anything like that happening is it thousands of dollars are owed on that box. If the box is several years old I’m sure the credit has been charged off already and I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[pizza]

Do NOT remove the serial #. That action alone is a felony. Even if it's your own ****....

how could removing the serial number on a toolbox be a felony? much less on your own toolbox.

it's not a regulated item like a car or a gun.

 

[Mr_B]

While no one ideally wants a used box with a loan on it in most situations it not going be a major issue if you do end up buying one, could be an issue if a dealer notes the serial in a scenario you getting upgrades/parts for it .
snapon is a classic example of business practice that creates a lot of unpaid debt and part of high prices you pay is covering this .
Is hell of a lot of early year techs that encouraged into loans on a stupidly overpriced toolbox .
Amazes me how some employers screw employee and their wages over to a tool truck dealer yet wouldn't put effort in to advice employee or use experience and contacts give them better purchasing power/options .

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Did not know that the boxes are stamped.

I am not a lawyer, but I am not sure how somebody can track down the boxes, especially if it's in a private house.

Would be interesting to get an opinion of a lawyer on this topic instead of multiple different guesses.

It would be essentially impossible. They can't enter the house without a warrant. So how can they see the serial ID stamped in the back? Unless you have some wild setup that is obviously the only one for 100+ miles, it's hearsay.

Oh, a red snap on box..... better get a warrant for every home in the tristate to inspect their garages. This ain't Law and Order where Briscoe tosses a baggie of baking soda in your jacket then claims probable cause.

If you don’t work in a shop it doesn’t matter. If the box was from a recent transaction and thousands of dollars are owed on it I would b careful. If it’s worth it for them to get it back The law could get involved to repossess. The only way I see anything like that happening is it thousands of dollars are owed on that box. If the box is several years old I’m sure the credit has been charged off already and I wouldn’t worry about it.

This is the only situation where repo is even on the table. If it was obviously transferred with debt owed on it, within a shop, that's an issue. IMO you'd be scum for doing that sort of thing anyways. But if one is buying a used box, the best due diligence you can do is call the SO 1800 number.

The used boxes I buy ain't pageant beauty queens, and there's a chain of custody and story that goes with them. My 80's KR for instance - bought it off a shop, after the 70-something year old original owner died 25 years prior. It had been used as a shop box after the widow said she didn't want it. I'm sure that any debt was long since dealt with.

 

[mepstein]

When I worked at the shop the box truck guy said after a time, the company turns it over to a collections agency and writes it off. Their losses are built into the price of the box, profit and loss and taxes.
We used to get some good deals on repo'd boxes from the tool truck guys. They already made their commission and are willing to wheel and deal. A lot of times the boxes were only ~ 6 months old from guys who changed their mind about the business. Cash was king.

 

[ridervfr]

I bought my KRL used from a mechanic that was going to the quicky lube section of the dealership. He was downsizing to a roll cart. He owed on the box, we physically went to the truck, paid off his share and I bought the box. That was twenty years ago though, I had a personal friend snap on dealer that showed me all the out standing (read, dead-beat no pays) debts, I tell you something, you would never have to go out and buy another roll of toilet paper with that list, I was beyond freaking long. I don't feel sorry for those dealers as I think alot of them exploit people and guys get in over their head (I never ran a bill and never owed on any of my stuff.)

I say just get the box and say F it. Your gona be safe, like all the smart people said above, its not like it has a title or anything. Peace

 

[ddawg16]

how could removing the serial number on a toolbox be a felony? much less on your own toolbox.

it's not a regulated item like a car or a gun.

It's serialized....just like TV's, radios, etc. Removing the serial # is a no no....

Yeah.....unlikely the cops are going to come into your garage.

But what if the guy who sold you that item is contacted by the PoPo and he says "Yeah, I sold it to so and so". This is when you play dumb if they show up....because now you are potentially in possession of stolen property.

I'm not passing judgement on anyone, just stating the facts.

 

[pizza]

i totally agree. and i understand that possession of stolen property is a crime.

i was just questioning how the act of removing the serial from a non-regulated item is a crime.

i'm not a lawyer, so i don't know if intent is part of possession of stolen property (guessing it's not necessary to demonstrate intent). but if it is, then i suppose removal of the serial demonstrates intent, although again i'd be shocked if mutilating the marking is itself a crime.

 

[Davefr]

i was just questioning how the act of removing the serial from a non-regulated item is a crime.

Yea, that's as silly as going to jail for removing the tag on your mattress.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

This sounds like a scenario that I would avoid altogether.