The VISES of Garage Journal

[va.grouseman]

11b30b4, I'll bet you were asking about the Autocrat because they have a pretty big anvil area.---As Shift said, ''not good to beat on vise anvils'', they are practically there just as a selling point.---Many a vise is in the scrap yard because they were used as an anvil.---Anything cast iron absorbs too much of the blow and doesn't distribute the energy to the object of repair or fabrication.---Unlike a good 1'' thick piece of plate steel.---But those railroad sections that were discussed are good too.

 

[dannyr]

11b30b4, I'll bet you were asking about the Autocrat because they have a pretty big anvil area.---As Shift said, ''not good to beat on vise anvils'', they are practically there just as a selling point.---Many a vise is in the scrap yard because they were used as an anvil.---Anything cast iron absorbs too much of the blow and doesn't distribute the energy to the object of repair or fabrication.---Unlike a good 1'' thick piece of plate steel.---But those railroad sections that were discussed are good too.

The big English vise makers (Parkinson, Woden, Record) had cast steel versions of their main ranges of bench vises, but even then they didn't add an anvil, but here's a Blair 6inch that was designed for at least a modest beating (cast steel, designed with full support for the anvil plate).

Rail section is good (but a lot of work if you want to make it anvil shape) I-beam works OK, but a real anvil is the business.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

So when did the USPS put a weight limit on the flat rate box? I shipped 75-80# in them many times. This was 4-5 years ago.
At that time the PO only said if it fits in the box, it ships.

PierceA.

It's been in place for years. 70 lbs domestically, and 20 lbs internationally (except for the small boxes, which are 4 lbs internationally). Whichever post office you shipped from probably just didn't know enough, or care enough, to reject it for being over the weight limit.

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[PSCo1867]

REGARDING FLAT RATE SHIPPING OF RAILROAD RAIL PIECES:

If the consensus is that 1 ft is an acceptable piece-length to make an anvil, I will ship a piece this week as a test. Maybe roll it in some bubble wrap. The flange corners are the main concern (as well as the weight!), and I'd at least give a quick grind to break the hard edges and flange corners.

As has been discussed, railroad rail sections are designated in pounds per yard. So, a 1 ft. section of 136 rail will weigh just over 45#. To reveal what the actual section looks like, search: "railroad rail sections", select "images" then find a chart.

136 is the most common, but also available are 100, 115, 135CR, and 175CR. The CR designates crane rail, and a quick search will reveal what the actual sections look like. There are many others, but the ones I've listed are the more common sections.

 

[ChefRex]

Here are a couple of pics of my latest project. Prentiss 524 with the early style swivel base. I was fortunate enough to get the often lost Prentiss marked captive wrench. The swivel was rusted tight when I got it. It works fine now. More pics over on the vise repair thread.
I’ll include 2 “before” pics taken after it got of the “hot tub” and before it got pressure washed. I removed 4 layers of paint. The top layer was probably latex house paint.


.

Quite the transformation, she's a beauty!

 

[CRSINMICH]

FLAT RATE BOX​

Try lining the inside of the box with sections of 1/4" or 3/8" hardboard cut to fit. Then reinforce all the outside edges and corners of the box with packing tape (the kind that has strips of fiberglass in it). I sent a large flat rate with two vises in it across the country and it arrived safely. It did arrive safely didn't it, Shiftless?

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

REGARDING FLAT RATE SHIPPING OF RAILROAD RAIL PIECES:



If the consensus is that 1 ft is an acceptable piece-length to make an anvil, I will ship a piece this week as a test. Maybe roll it in some bubble wrap. The flange corners are the main concern (as well as the weight!), and I'd at least give a quick grind to break the hard edges and flange corners.



As has been discussed, railroad rail sections are designated in pounds per yard. So, a 1 ft. section of 136 rail will weigh just over 45#. To reveal what the actual section looks like, search: "railroad rail sections", select "images" then find a chart.



136 is the most common, but also available are 100, 115, 135CR, and 175CR. The CR designates crane rail, and a quick search will reveal what the actual sections look like. There are many others, but the ones I've listed are the more common sections.

My experience with shipping and receiving various heavy machine parts over the years is that air packing materials rarely last the trip. They deflate once the box is dropped a time or two. The item is then rattling around inside the box, and much more likely to break through. Styrofoam peanuts will do the same thing.

I would use cardboard to partition the interior of the box to keep the rail section from moving, then fill the voids with a minimally-compressible medium (tightly packed paper or similar).

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[PSCo1867]

My experience with shipping and receiving various heavy machine parts over the years is that air packing materials rarely last the trip. They deflate once the box is dropped a time or two. The item is then rattling around inside the box, and much more likely to break through. Styrofoam peanuts will do the same thing.

I would use cardboard to partition the interior of the box to keep the rail section from moving, then fill the voids with a minimally-compressible medium (tightly packed paper or similar).

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ANDY F & CRSINMICH:
Thanks so much for the packing advice. Your points are well-taken.

 

[11b30b4]

Bighead38, congrats on finding that Wilton.

M635_Guy, 73 was still a great price for something that is difficult to locate and everyone on ebay feels its made of expensivetainium.

PierceA, I agree 100% that the USPS needs to be more concerned about getting packages to the proper people “undamaged”. I had a simple letter envelop with some decals sent to me by a GJ member and I got a plastic bag with “we are sorry” printed on it form the USPS. Inside the bag was the torn open envelope with 3 of the 4 decals. Still have no idea where the 4th ended up but the GJ member sent me a replacement.

Even worse was when I shipped an ACOG TA01NSN to someone with $300 additional insurance and it was damaged in shipping. When I filed the claim, the USPS agreed to only pay me $50.00 since the scope was used and not new. What a total scam the insurance is.

Va.grouseman, you taunt me. Been looking at those pics for some time now. The autorcrat seems to have everything a home hobby shop could ever need. Yep, I get the deal with the anvil now but I still like that vise.

With everyone chiming in here, no one has any information on the origin of the Autocrat or why it is called that?

Dannyr, I kind of was thinking the same about the craftsman 5176 series. The anvil is almost the entire back end of the vise, however, I get the whole cast iron vs steel thing.

PSCO1867, I would be happy to get whatever track you can get me. Beggars can not be choosers. Another option for packing material is placing the item in a plastic bag then filling the box with expanding foam. The last two drill press motors I ordered came this way and it worked great.

Anyway, good morning everyone.

 

[M635_Guy]

FLAT RATE BOX​

Try lining the inside of the box with sections of 1/4" or 3/8" hardboard cut to fit. Then reinforce all the outside edges and corners of the box with packing tape (the kind that has strips of fiberglass in it). I sent a large flat rate with two vises in it across the country and it arrived safely. It did arrive safely didn't it, Shiftless?

Very much agree with all this. Mine arrived looking like it had been on a bit of a journey...

This worked better than I ever would have imagined. The box had been pretty-thoroughly taped - even the inner flaps were taped in multiple directions.

I'm a bit of a hoarder for packaging materials. I probably would have "wrapped" the piece in the heaviest cardboard I had handy, and packed with the densest stuff I could find - balls of newspaper aren't too bad if they're balled tightly and there are enough of them (and you'd need a fair number to limit the movement of that puppy...). Some panels of cardboard mixed in helps. I usually have some closed-cell foam, so I'd cut some blocks to help keep movement to a minimum.

For the sake of safety and courtesy, I'd also clearly mark it as HEAVY in multiple spots. It probably won't hurt your chances of a delivery without drama too...

 

[Shiftless]

FLAT RATE BOX​

Try lining the inside of the box with sections of 1/4" or 3/8" hardboard cut to fit. Then reinforce all the outside edges and corners of the box with packing tape (the kind that has strips of fiberglass in it). I sent a large flat rate with two vises in it across the country and it arrived safely. It did arrive safely didn't it, Shiftless?

Indeed it did!
CRS shipped 2 vises to me in a flat rate box. Michigan to California is a long trip. He cut 6 pieces of 1/4 inch hardboard (aka Masonite) carefully cut to match all 6 inside faces of the cardboard box. In essence, a wooden box within a cardboard box.
If you fellows have a table saw, it’s pretty quick and easy to cut them out of scrap leftovers.
Just pack the contents with anything to keep them from rattling around and you’re good to go. I use bubble wrap, wadded up brown Kraft paper and styrofoam packing peanuts. The fiber reinforced tape is a nice touch but not absolutely necessary. Regular packing tape would probably be adequate at that point as long as you use lots of it.

 

[PSCo1867]

Here's a typical look at crop accumulation, at the rate of about 1 per minute. Rails are rolled 86' to 90' long, and a hot-saw will cut off the front end.

There's scrap rail, old and new all over this place. Much rich history here: steel rail has been produced here pretty-much continuously since 1867.

 

[va.grouseman]

The big English vise makers (Parkinson, Woden, Record) had cast steel versions of their main ranges of bench vises, but even then they didn't add an anvil, but here's a Blair 6inch that was designed for at least a modest beating (cast steel, designed with full support for the anvil plate).

Rail section is good (but a lot of work if you want to make it anvil shape) I-beam works OK, but a real anvil is the business.

Danny, that Blair looks like it's built like a tank and could actually take some mild whamping, but if it were mine, I still wouldn't beat on it just because I could.---Can't bring myself to beat on a good vise when I have so many other chunks of steel laying around that just beg for a good whuppen.---But that's just me.---A man is entitled to treat his own stuff as he see's fit.

Would you take a ball peen hammer or a sledge to this?---Man this thing just comes in too handy for me to get stupid with.

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by 11b3034.

Va.grouseman, you taunt me. Been looking at those pics for some time now. The Autorcrat seems to have everything a home hobby shop could ever need. Yep, I get the deal with the anvil now but I still like that vise.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


11b3034, I can't find one thing about the Autocrat.---I Googled and found the thread on this forum called (''Columbian Autocrat''), that you might want to type in the search bar and look at.---I just watched one sell on eBay about an hour ago for $100.00 and $35.00 shipping.---They still pop up from time to time.---I've got 2 of them, both a green matched pair.---Got pics of them setting together on the picnic table but Photobucket has hijacked the pics and holding them for ransom.
There are some fellows on this forum that have a world of info, knowledge, literature, and old adds, if any of them would chime in.---I' like to know something about the Autocrat myself.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Co...419501?hash=item422c709ded:g:19QAAOSwpAhgGXeH

 

[Vise]

VA - my heart flutters every time I see that 326. So nice!

 

[dutchgray]

The big English vise makers (Parkinson, Woden, Record) had cast steel versions of their main ranges of bench vises, but even then they didn't add an anvil, but here's a Blair 6inch that was designed for at least a modest beating (cast steel, designed with full support for the anvil plate).

Rail section is good (but a lot of work if you want to make it anvil shape) I-beam works OK, but a real anvil is the business.

Talking of anvils I have a spare Peter Wright around 280lb thats available if any of our UK members wants one, reasonable condition, pound a pound if collected.

I don't think I would even consider hitting the anvil surface on my Blair, just seems wrong to me.

 

[RTM]

Here's a typical look at crop accumulation, at the rate of about 1 per minute. Rails are rolled 86' to 90' long, and a hot-saw will cut off the front end. .

Man, talk about a tease. People all over GJ are standing there, mouths agog, looking at that.

 

[11b30b4]

PSCo1867, I think that pic just caused the damn to break. I expect your inbox will be full by this time tomorrow with requests.

Va.grouseman, yes I was watching that and really considered dropping in at the last minute to bid low and hopefully snag that 5” autocrat but even 137 (with shipping) would be a stretch for me at this time. 70 bucks is about the top end of my price point on vises at the moment. I prefer to buy low and spend the time restoring just about everything these days.

 

[Shiftless]

Man, talk about a tease. People all over GJ are standing there, mouths agog, looking at that.

to that. One a minute!

 

[Shiftless]

I started a thread for St. Patrick’s Day. Post pics of green tools.
I bet some of you guys have a green vise or two.


Here is a link to the thread:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8995401#post8995401


.

 

[dannyr]

Talking of anvils I have a spare Peter Wright around 280lb thats available if any of our UK members wants one, reasonable condition, pound a pound if collected.

I don't think I would even consider hitting the anvil surface on my Blair, just seems wrong to me.

But they obviously designed the Blair to take it. ---- Grouseman - yes built like a tank -- Blair foundry's main business was tank parts.

Generous offer, dutch, a spare Peter Wright 280lbs! -- luckily it would be a 500mile round trip, so I won't bite, however fine your county is - as it happens I have an anvil large enough for my use, and a good length of I beam at my other vice location (don't tell the neighbors , they think it's just a veg garden (I live city center)).

Is this forum going to go very quiet as everyone gets hold of their rail cut-offs and starts to spend all their free hours shaping them to anvils? What's the prize for the best rail anvil --- envy?

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Here's mine

 

[Shiftless]

Nice big Holland’s you have there Mr. W.

Before refinishing, did you have a hint that they were originally painted green?

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Shift,

No, actually much like some of my Morgans and my other Hollands, I found patches of light ford tractor blue. I just thought this would go well with the brass.

 

[Fierljeppen]

Va.grouseman, you taunt me. Been looking at those pics for some time now. The autocrat seems to have everything a home hobby shop could ever need. Yep, I get the deal with the anvil now but I still like that vise.

With everyone chiming in here, no one has any information on the origin of the Autocrat or why it is called that?

I can't find one thing about the Autocrat.---I Googled and found the thread on this forum called (''Columbian Autocrat''), that you might want to type in the search bar and look at.---I just watched one sell on eBay about an hour ago for $100.00 and $35.00 shipping.---They still pop up from time to time.---I've got 2 of them, both a green matched pair.---Got pics of them setting together on the picnic table but Photobucket has hijacked the pics and holding them for ransom.
There are some fellows on this forum that have a world of info, knowledge, literature, and old adds, if any of them would chime in.---I'd like to know something about the Autocrat myself.

Ok, before I head off to the "Bat Cave" to retrieve some Columbian Autocrat vise information, does anyone want to test their vise instincts on this vise? It had a 20-year life span.

Pick any (20-year) span in the 1900's and see if you can come anywhere inside the bullseye. The person with the most years in the bullseye wins. Personally, my initial guess didn't even come close to the bullseye.

 

[Shiftless]

Ok, I’ll play... 1950-1970

 

[1982fxr]

ok, before i head off to the "bat cave" to retrieve some columbian autocrat vise information, does anyone want to test their vise instincts on this vise? It had a 20-year life span.

Pick any (20-year) span in the 1900's and see if you can come anywhere inside the bullseye. The person with the most years in the bullseye wins. Personally, my initial guess didn't even come close to the bullseye.

1946-1966

 

[PghJKB]

1974-1994

 

[11b30b4]

OK Fierljeppen, Since I asked for the information and me being very new to the vise community I can only tell you what I think based on my observations.

First, the embossed lettering is horizontal and not curved or curved vertically like older Columbian vises. The decision to name the vise Autocrat is odd and the reason I started asking about it.
The design alone has a lot of similar properties of previous Columbians but also many of the newer properties seen on newer vises just around the time some many of the companies starting some production in Asia.

The overall design seems to be geared towards the hobbyist as if this vise was trying fill every niche for the home workshop. Features such as pipe jaws is something that the home workshop enthusiast would like but the need to replace those pipe jaws is not as big a concern to someone who would rarely use them. Hence the cast pipe jaws rather than removable jaws, and I assume it would lower the production cost.

On the other hand, the main jaws are a more popular and "standardized" simple screw on rectangle jaw rather than T or other shapes and the decision to use screws over pins is more "user friendly" for easy replacement.

The swivel base has 3 mounting points eliminating the need to drill into the side (front) of a work bench along the edge and making it easier to mount on home-built benches.

There is only one swivel lock again making it a simpler design and nodding towards a more light to medium duty vise which is also an indication of the design being aimed at the home user.

The spindle is shielded pointing to a newer design. The (dare I say it) anvil is larger and defined which is also more along the design of the D44/ 45 series. The original color as best as I can tell is green which would be odd if its a vise from the era I believe it is from.

Honestly, the vise seems to me as a Columbian design that they planned to market for Craftsman for the home user.

So my guess is 1975ish so the 20 years could be 1965-1985.

However, as I said, I am new to the vise community so I could be way off base here.

I look forward to the real story behind this interesting vise.

BTW, are you planning on rewarding the winner with that lovely red 415?

 

[Outlawmws]

So when did the USPS put a weight limit on the flat rate box? I shipped 75-80# in them many times. This was 4-5 years ago.
At that time the PO only said if it fits in the box, it ships.

PierceA.

It's had a 70# limit as long as I can remember.

On the Packing materials for the Rail sections "I'll suggest blocks of 2" Styrofoam. it doesn't need to be perfect, just enough to keep it from rattling around on sudden stops, (every time its dropped).

I used to ship a LOT of vintage speakers and 2" styro worked well some of those weighed 70-80 lbs...

 

[banditbigdog]

Model D30 3" Kurt with swivel base
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1113415&stc=1&d=1615944492
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1113418&stc=1&d=1615944923
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1113419&stc=1&d=1615944923

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Was the "Autocrat" name possibly marketing towards automotive shop use?

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[Fierljeppen]

Thanks to all who participated, you all did better than me. I was closest to 1982fxr, while Shiftless was the first out of the gate. 11b30b4, you have a lot of talent for someone who's pretty new to the game. I'd say your natural "vise instincts" are very strong. But it was the "vise hustler" PghJKB who pretty much nailed it! It makes me wonder if he has more information about this vise than I do?

(1977-1997) is the range of catalog listings I found for the Columbian Autocrat Mechanics Vise. The same vise was lastly listed in Wilton's 1998 catalog, but the jaw width was increased by 1/2".

For the owners of these vises, pay attention to the parts-list, which shows common parts from other Columbian utility vises. Vise on!

 

[ChefRex]

I started a thread for St. Patrick’s Day. Post pics of green tools.
I bet some of you guys have a green vise or two.


Here is a link to the thread:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8995401#post8995401


.

Sure do!


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[Shiftless]

That’s a very nice looking transitional Reed you’ve got there ChefRex.

 

[ChefRex]

Shame the slide got misused as an anvil, jaws are like new.

 

[ChefRex]

That’s a very nice looking transitional Reed you’ve got there ChefRex.

School me on being transitional, it is an earlier one correct? With the round meatball.

 

[1982fxr]

Thanks to all who participated, you all did better than me. I was closest to 1982fxr, while Shiftless was the first out of the gate. 11b30b4, you have a lot of talent for someone who's pretty new to the game. I'd say your natural "vise instincts" are very strong. But it was the "vise hustler" PghJKB who pretty much nailed it! It makes me wonder if he has more information about this vise than I do?

(1977-1997) is the range of catalog listings I found for the Columbian Autocratic Mechanics Vise. The same vise was lastly listed in Wilton's 1998 catalog, but the jaw width was increased by 1/2".

For the owners of these vises, pay attention to the parts-list, which shows common parts from other Columbian utility vises. Vise on!

I'm not at all surprised it's much newer. But I had to go with my gut and guess post war.

I dont think I've ever seen one of those until now.

You actually have 20 straight years of Columbian catalogs?

 

[Indexmill]

Shame the slide got misused as an anvil, jaws are like new.

You could take a fly cut on the top of the slide.

 

[Outlawmws]

Not a good Ideal Index - that will allow the slide to rock up when you crank down on the vise and he Jaws wont stay parallel.