rk_tek
Well-known member
I've always wanted to make a box joint jig. I just might have to get that done soon as our kitchen remodel nears.
Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT Mid-Century Moto Mecca Makeover
- Thread starter sakurama
- Start date
Workspaces between 485 and 705 squarefeet.
gasgas17
Well-known member
When filling joints or defects on pine projects use the best match if you are finishing with a water base finish. If you are finishing with an oil base finish that will allow the pine to darken with age, then use a darker wood filler. The wood will catch up to the color difference over time and all the defects will disappear. I generally use light oak when I fill nails, etc in pine. It looks too dark at first but as the pine mellows with age it blends right in. The opposite is true when you use an exact match when you do the filling. It will match perfectly at first and then start to stand out as the pine mellows. less pronounced with a water based finish.
Yes and no.
I had a Festool dovetail jig for years and just never used it because the setup was so fussy. You need a table, clamp it to the table, then a handheld router, set that up with the follow collar, then the boards need to be set up and the heights dialed in. It's a lot of set up. Once you're set up and dialed in it's not too bad.
But for me in such a tiny garage it's too much. My table is hung from the ceiling so to use it I have to take the motorcycle off the lift, lower the table and then set up the jig on the table. So right away there's a lot that impedes momentum for me.
A box joint isn't as secure or strong as a dovetail but it's not too far off. I like them for their simplicity and symmetry. In a way they're like a high end mid-century joint. But the big reason for me was that I could make the jig for the router table which is always set up in the corner. The only thing I need to do is put in the 10mm bit, set the bit height to the width of the board and then slide the jig over the bit so that it's centered. Done. It takes me less than 5-10 minutes and I didn't have to turn the garage upside down.
Lastly, it's the best joint for thin boards. My original goal was to make some small 6mm/1/4" baltic birch boxes to use for containers in the kitchen cabinets, drawers, kids room, etc. I don't know that you can do dove tails in 1/4" but box joints are a perfect way to join such thin wood.
So those are my reasons aside from just liking the look of them especially when they're done in baltic birch.
Gregor
APEowner
Well-known member
For what little it's worth I'm not excited about the worlds transition to video for everything. I do watch YouTube videos but I really enjoy a good forum or blog post, particularly if it's accompanied by great photos. I'm not expecting that you'll change what you're doing and I sincerely hope that your YouTube channel is successful but I want you to know that I'm enjoying your posts here and expect to continue to for as long as you keep making them
Yeah, it's part of why I haven't really run head first into it years ago - I like the give and take and the detail that can be achieved here. I think of YouTube more as a TV replacement and since I really enjoy a lot of things on there it seems to make sense to try that out. But I'll keep taking stills and posting here.
Gregor
Hello Gregor,
This is one of my favorite threads on the internet. I can barely find time for my projects, let alone take pictures of them and provide such detailed updates. So thanks for sharing your projects and adventures with us.
The finger joint boxes that you've built are quite visually pleasing. Can you explain how the bottoms are attached?
Thanks!
Ed
This is one of my favorite threads on the internet. I can barely find time for my projects, let alone take pictures of them and provide such detailed updates. So thanks for sharing your projects and adventures with us.
The finger joint boxes that you've built are quite visually pleasing. Can you explain how the bottoms are attached?
Thanks!
Ed
Hi Ed,
Chester County!?! That's pretty much where I was born/grew up until I was 10 - we lived in Glen Mills, PA. Ages ago.
The bottoms are just cut to size and then glued in. No rabbets or anything. I was curious if this would hold so I've made a few and have had no problems. The small boxes of 1/4" are really too small to do any fancy joinery so I think that is probably the best option.
Gregor
Trapps
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The box joint boxes look great Gregor (like everything else you do)! I have a few in some small storage 'mini-cabinets' but I did not make them; I bought them at IKEA in England in the mid 90's. I still use them and am currently trying to work them into my garage/shop/office build as they're very useful and thematically fit my space:
Clearly the design stands the test of time. Not that I've overloaded or abused them, but nearly 25 years of use and they're still doing the job. Yours, being higher quality, should last even longer!
Clearly the design stands the test of time. Not that I've overloaded or abused them, but nearly 25 years of use and they're still doing the job. Yours, being higher quality, should last even longer!
Not sure my little jig is any match for the CNC might and precision of Ikea. When they used to use real material their stuff was actually really nice and super durable. The bean counters relentless march to cheapen all materials is what drives them to particle board and other material but that's real baltic birch.
Yeah, I love the look of those joints.
G
Yeah, I love the look of those joints.
G
gasgas17
Well-known member
Ikea uses 1% of the worlds wood fiber. When they recently build a new store here in Halifax area they published a flyer that talked about their business model. They were quite proud of the fact that 26% of the wood fiber they used was legally harvested in a sustainable manor.
That’s actually really fascinating. I certainly support the sustainability aspect of the model but then I wonder about how that is balanced against the longevity of their products. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.
Some products have managed to make sustainable things that are improvements such as Patagonia’s fleece that is made from water bottles. I still have some Patagonia jackets that are 20 years old and just as useful today.
If we look at the “Reduce, Reuse, Recycle” mantra it would seem to make something better would be the way to Reduce. But I recognize my part in this because I chose that stop gap piece of furniture. But like those earlier wooden boxes IKEA used to make some nice stuff that stood the test of time. Ironically that bookcase that broke was made from solid pine. I chose it completely because I knew that would be stronger and, aside from the base, it’s held up. So fixing that was possible.
Compare that to a dresser we had (again, a stop gap) which was made from particle board. Once it broke it essentially collapsed and there was no fixing it. The material, not being real wood, could not be recycled or repaired.
Disposable things to me are worse than things cheaply made but then there’s always trade offs. Nothing is ever simple.
Gregor
gasgas17
Well-known member
My son bought a bed frame from Ikea and it's actually really nice and well made from from some kind of hardwood. But we also get asked to assemble stuff from Ikea for clients from time to time. Not so much. Looks nice from afar, but far from nice. Their kitchens leave a lot to be desired. More than anything else, the use of raw materials to manufacture garbage products really infuriates me. I think that's what draws me back to this and a few other threads all the time. The tangible quality.
Thanks for the response on the box bottoms!
The area around Glen Mills has really built up since you left. I'm about 45 minutes north of there. It's still rural(ish) here, but it feels like the open space is rapidly disappearing in lieu of McMansions.
Anyway, I enjoy following your projects. Thanks again for taking the time to post them.
Ed
rk_tek
Well-known member
My dad is from Paoli and my grandfather worked at the St David’s golf club by Valley Forge Military Academy for ages and ages. Still have some family up there but haven’t been in a long time.
So I lived there in the 70's and we had horses on a small 18 acre farm. Most of our neighbors had horses too. It wasn't a wealthy area - no one wanted to live out in farmland yet. We would ride our horses to Ridley State Creek Park which was maybe 10 or so miles the long way. Each year a field was replaced by a new development and the ride got more difficult.
That was the big reason my dad wanted to leave. He wanted space which was quickly disappearing on the east coast but there was plenty on the west.
And speaking of space I got out in that space again - this time up around Mt Hood. For this ride I installed a killer light that Ben had on his bike - thanks Ben! And then the Rekluse automatic clutch that had been sitting in a box for the last year. I can feather a clutch but the Rekluse just frees up brain power when the going gets technical. Very nice.
The 500 needs a USB outlet up front so that's next on the list.
Gregor
monsterbronco
Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 10
Wow that is crazy to picture. I live about a mile from Ridley Creek State Park.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using The Garage Journal mobile app
E12-535iTurbo
Well-known member
Google it. They have a very very good explanation on their website of how it works.
gasgas17
Well-known member
The Rekluse clutch is pretty much a must have on a modern 4 stroke woods bike. No more stalling but maintains normal clutch operation when needed. Like when you need to grab a hand full to get your revs up. Also great for one handed starts at hare scrambles (We usually start with your left hand on your head until the flag drops). Foot on the kicker and the bike in second gear. By the time you get your left hand on the bar you are moving. I had started using one on my GG EC250 2T years ago and it's like cheating on hill climbs. But also gets you climbing more gnarly stuff than you normally would.
Its a Baja Designs XL80. 9500 lumens from four Cree LEDs. When I ran it on my 500 it was amazing, it really saved our bacon a couple of years ago when Gregor’s swingarm broke. It’ll sunburn the driver in front of you when cranked up, but it’s wired with the lights switch to be 40% output until you switch to “brights.” I think you can change that percentage but I don’t recall.
The design on that Baja XL80 light is sharp. I like how the two upper LEDs project light far ahead and the two lower lights project light wide to the sides. So often you see a super bright LED combined with a poor lens design that offers little improvement in terms of usable light and really just serves to blind oncoming traffic.
I looked up the Rekluse automatic clutch and it's really neat. And simple.
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Ed
I looked up the Rekluse automatic clutch and it's really neat. And simple.
Ed
paranoid56
Well-known member
This, I race District 38 in the desert (last sunday no less lol) and man having that clutch is so nice. steep rocky sections, jump on the starts, just all around best mod. Also love my Baja Designs lights lol.
(if anybody needs them let me know, we are a dealer)
Well I typed up a response but went to bed before posting it and now all the questions have been answered. I'm no longer needed here!
Yes, the Rekluse is a pretty amazing upgrade. It doesn't replace skills it just gives you bandwidth to concentrate on other aspects of riding. And as mentioned it's like cheating on race starts.
When I bought the 500 it had heated grips on it - installed by the dealer I believe. It was a janky system but it worked so I was happy to have them. On our first big ride I remember the bike smoking and I discovered the wires were melting. I disconnected them and pulled them out before anything horrible happened and then forgot about it.
My plan to put a USB outlet on the bike had me pull the tank and discover the above fried wires. I ordered a new harness even though I don't think anything melted clear through - I mean it's worked for two years...
So my plan is to make a small "dash" that can hold an accessory plug and a USB plug and just bolt it to the triple clamp. I found some 1/4" scrap and just marked off the holes for the triple so I could put it in place.
I bolted that onto the top clamp and scribed the outline of the top clamp onto the bottom. I needed to make a bit of space for the throttle cables on the right.
I milled an bit of an opening for the throttle cables and then planned to make some holes for the outlets.
I'm still really enjoying the new Sony. I picked up a 24 f1.4 and it's quickly becoming my favorite lens. Anyway, the swarf of the hole saw scraped an outline around the hole that looked about right to me so I just drew lines to it and then cut that out on the band saw.
I counter sunk (sank?) the triple clamp replacement screws so they'd be flush.
And test fitting the plugs...
I gave the dash a quick coat of paint and then bed liner so it would disappear a bit.
With the plug dash done I need to run some power to it. My options are to do it like the dealer; an undersized wire with no fuse directly from the battery...
...or the right way.
The right includes a relay. I don't do much wiring or electrical so I need to read up on the relay but I have the general idea.
Gregor
Yes, the Rekluse is a pretty amazing upgrade. It doesn't replace skills it just gives you bandwidth to concentrate on other aspects of riding. And as mentioned it's like cheating on race starts.
When I bought the 500 it had heated grips on it - installed by the dealer I believe. It was a janky system but it worked so I was happy to have them. On our first big ride I remember the bike smoking and I discovered the wires were melting. I disconnected them and pulled them out before anything horrible happened and then forgot about it.
My plan to put a USB outlet on the bike had me pull the tank and discover the above fried wires. I ordered a new harness even though I don't think anything melted clear through - I mean it's worked for two years...
So my plan is to make a small "dash" that can hold an accessory plug and a USB plug and just bolt it to the triple clamp. I found some 1/4" scrap and just marked off the holes for the triple so I could put it in place.
I bolted that onto the top clamp and scribed the outline of the top clamp onto the bottom. I needed to make a bit of space for the throttle cables on the right.
I milled an bit of an opening for the throttle cables and then planned to make some holes for the outlets.
I'm still really enjoying the new Sony. I picked up a 24 f1.4 and it's quickly becoming my favorite lens. Anyway, the swarf of the hole saw scraped an outline around the hole that looked about right to me so I just drew lines to it and then cut that out on the band saw.
I counter sunk (sank?) the triple clamp replacement screws so they'd be flush.
And test fitting the plugs...
I gave the dash a quick coat of paint and then bed liner so it would disappear a bit.
With the plug dash done I need to run some power to it. My options are to do it like the dealer; an undersized wire with no fuse directly from the battery...
...or the right way.
The right includes a relay. I don't do much wiring or electrical so I need to read up on the relay but I have the general idea.
Gregor
Hello Gregor,
The new dash panel looks amazing! I'm definitely jealous of your tooling! Wrinkle black looks like a good choice.. as you said, it will blend in and not draw attention.
Relays are easy. I'm a driver of old cars, and one of the easiest and cheapest huge improvements you can make is to put the headlights on a relay.
Pin 30 = Power from the battery. Might be a good idea to put an inline fuse in this wire. Use heavy gauge wire.
Pin 87 = Wire to the device, be it heated grips, headlight, whatever. Could be lighter gauge wire if a short run.
Pins 85 (negative) and 86 (positive) switch the relay on. You can do this two ways:
1. (Most common way) Run 12v power to your switch. Switch to 86. 85 to ground.
2. (Less common way) Run 12v power to 86. 85 to switch. Switch to ground.
Pictures below:
Ed
The new dash panel looks amazing! I'm definitely jealous of your tooling! Wrinkle black looks like a good choice.. as you said, it will blend in and not draw attention.
Relays are easy. I'm a driver of old cars, and one of the easiest and cheapest huge improvements you can make is to put the headlights on a relay.
Pin 30 = Power from the battery. Might be a good idea to put an inline fuse in this wire. Use heavy gauge wire.
Pin 87 = Wire to the device, be it heated grips, headlight, whatever. Could be lighter gauge wire if a short run.
Pins 85 (negative) and 86 (positive) switch the relay on. You can do this two ways:
1. (Most common way) Run 12v power to your switch. Switch to 86. 85 to ground.
2. (Less common way) Run 12v power to 86. 85 to switch. Switch to ground.
Pictures below:
Ed
Nice job on the dashboard. I like that it’s shaped for the two plugs and slightly asymmetric. I would have struggled with my incessant need for symmetry!
Not sure how exposed the area you’re installing this into will be, but you can get waterproof relays that adds a sleeve and gasket.
Not sure how exposed the area you’re installing this into will be, but you can get waterproof relays that adds a sleeve and gasket.
Thanks for the diagram Ed. After looking at a few dozen of them it started to make sense. I think I watched a half dozen videos as well.
Since I wasn't using the relay to control a "thing" but rather to power a fuse panel I needed a "trigger wire" or some kind of switched wire that became powered when the key was turned on. Oddly I could find absolutely no wire behind the headlight that came on with the key. The bike evidently has a relay that doesn't turn on the power to the headlamp or anything else until the motor is running. Which makes sense for a small battery but made finding power hard.
Under the seat there is a plug used for diagnostics and one of the pins lights up with the key - this became my trigger or switch to the relay's white wire. That plug goes back into a rubber socket so it's protected.
There isn't room under the seat but the bike has room in the airbox so put the waterproof relay in there. I finally found a use for those connectors I've had forever - I can't recall what they are... Oh, Anderson Powerpole or powerwerx. They're pretty cool because they can handle different wire sizes but still be grouped together so the heavy 12ga wire groups with the lighter 16ga trigger wire.
I need to replace the harness on the bike but I wanted to put the relay in to test the idea before I start zip tying all the wires together.
Up front I had a small 4 fuse block from Blue Sea although Ben found a cooler option... I can't remember it so maybe he can post the link. This is what I had on hand and had planned on using. I used the block to layout the screw pattern. The screw holes below are for the ground wires - the whole plate is essentially a ground bar as it screws to the triple clamp.
I made some standoffs that would allow this to be bolted below the factory dash on the forks just behind the headlight. I measured it so that I could make it as tight as possible.
I used flat head M6 screws so that I could screw the fuse block on top and then drilled and tapped the holes below for 8-32 screws which is what the panel used. I don't like mixing metric and standard but this allowed me to buy and use the same screws.
I made a mini harness that included the spade connectors and the BMW plug for the accessory plug that goes to ring connectors. I used some of the fabric shrink wrap and then used normal shrink tube on the ends and I also used waterproof heat shrink connectors.
I then connected those wires to the new panel.
I connected up my 12ga positive lead from the relay to the panel and turned the key and - no smoke!
I'm using a Quadlock anti-vibration mount and their waterproof wireless charging head. Ben and I have both had iPhone cameras destroyed by motorcycle vibration so this should fix that.
After it was all wired up and done I can see the folly of all the waterproof connectors and a USB outlet with a cover that when lifted is completely exposed. I guess if it's raining I'll pull the plug and use the battery but now I'm thinking I should have hidden the USB outlet out of the clear rain. The wireless charging head is a new thing and I guess with that it would make sense to hide a USB connector out of the rain but on a dirt bike I don't know if that is possible.
So I'm going to take the bike out today and see if the phone stays charged and isn't destroyed by vibration. If it's all good I'll probably put the mount back in the mill and get rid of any excess material to make it a bit trimmer and lighter and less... industrial looking. It is neatly tucked behind the headlight with nothing touching it so I'm happy with the position.
Next I'd like to make a small luggage rack for the back fender.
Gregor
The "cooler option" is the Fuzeblocks FZ-1. I've used them on my bikes for several years now and haven't had any trouble. Its pretty compact and has an integrated 30A relay. One cool thing is you can change each circuit from "switched" to "always on" at any time just by moving the fuse from one bus rail to another. It also uses the same "mini" ATM fuses that the rest of the bike has.
Its sometimes obnoxious that the positive and negative leads for each circuit come out of opposite sides of the box but pretty much any box I've seen does that. Just makes tidy wiring fussier. Also you need a screwdriver to open the box to check fuses but I've never had to do that. Weather sealing seems to have been really good though.
Andrew S
Well-known member
Gregor, would you share what crimper you use for the right angle spade terminals? Blue insulated ones on the end of your mini harness? I've yet to find a good crimp tool for the right angle spades... Thanks!
I agree. I’ve used these on three bikes and only had to open them up when adding another toy to the bike.
The mount and the fuse panel worked as hoped. I got out for a nice ride with Scott and his Dad to Tillamook State Forest and we had an interesting day of hard and easy stuff.
And I shot a little bit of footage with the drone with Scott driving. It's funny how hard it is to shoot it while you're sitting in the back seat of the van looking at a small screen and how easy it is to think of how you'd do it better/different when you're sitting in front of the computer.
Nonetheless we spent 15 minutes running down the road we'd parked on to ride dirt bikes. I managed to spend about 5 hours editing 10 minutes of drone footage into 45 seconds. Video is a cruel mistress. But I didn't crash, I recorded some audio of the van to overlay and experimented with a bit of color grading so I learned a lot. I put it up on YouTube just for fun and to keep the process moving. I'm trying to scale back my ambitions so I can take bite sized projects and make short videos as a way to learning.
Anyway, here's the link to the video since we can't embed them here: Logging Road Romp
Working on another one now.
Gregor
And I shot a little bit of footage with the drone with Scott driving. It's funny how hard it is to shoot it while you're sitting in the back seat of the van looking at a small screen and how easy it is to think of how you'd do it better/different when you're sitting in front of the computer.
Nonetheless we spent 15 minutes running down the road we'd parked on to ride dirt bikes. I managed to spend about 5 hours editing 10 minutes of drone footage into 45 seconds. Video is a cruel mistress. But I didn't crash, I recorded some audio of the van to overlay and experimented with a bit of color grading so I learned a lot. I put it up on YouTube just for fun and to keep the process moving. I'm trying to scale back my ambitions so I can take bite sized projects and make short videos as a way to learning.
Anyway, here's the link to the video since we can't embed them here: Logging Road Romp
Working on another one now.
Gregor
Vertigo Cycles
Well-known member
Nicely done! Where exactly is that? I used to go out that way on my 990 every week and more often than not, I'd either hit a closed gate or play chicken with a logging truck.
Thanks for the help on Saturday! You inspired me to up my coffee game too. I spent about an hour cleaning my machine and grinder and then another making lattes for Heather and I until we were both uncomfortably caffeinated. Your coffee tastes better than mine which leaves me with the choice of showing up at your house every morning with an empty cup in hand or figuring out where the flavor gap is and fixing it.
Here's that location: 45°32'36.3"N 123°37'19.6"W
It's the Keenig Creek area. It's not as developed but there's some great fire roads and a few nice trails. Most of them are one way Black Diamonds which are really tricky but there's plenty of good Blue Squares that are lots of fun. Pretty much all the trails there are motorcycle only so all single track.
I have a hard time believing my coffee is any better than yours but you're welcome to come by the shop any time. Looking forward to seeing the table you're building.
I just finished a small project that I tried to shoot video on so give me a few days to work on that and I'll post up some shots.
G
OCJohn
Well-known member
Amen.
Hello again Gregor,
Thanks for taking the time to put the videos together. Have you thought about getting an external mic to pick up vehicle exhaust noise? I have found that keeping that at a constant audio level between shots adds to the continuity. Not necessarily loud, just constant. I have a buddy who is taking a swing at a YouTube channel. He spends more time editing than any other aspect of the production.
I took a look at the map link you posted and had one of those moments where my concept of reality was turned on its head. As I scrolled out of the map to get perspective, I realized that Portland is inland of the Pacific. My entire life up to a few minutes ago, I thought Portland to be a port city on the Pacific. I've even been to Portland!
Your new panel looks factory! When I looked at the picture of the handlebars, I would have thought your add-ons were OEM.
Regards,
Ed
Thanks for taking the time to put the videos together. Have you thought about getting an external mic to pick up vehicle exhaust noise? I have found that keeping that at a constant audio level between shots adds to the continuity. Not necessarily loud, just constant. I have a buddy who is taking a swing at a YouTube channel. He spends more time editing than any other aspect of the production.
I took a look at the map link you posted and had one of those moments where my concept of reality was turned on its head. As I scrolled out of the map to get perspective, I realized that Portland is inland of the Pacific. My entire life up to a few minutes ago, I thought Portland to be a port city on the Pacific. I've even been to Portland!
Your new panel looks factory! When I looked at the picture of the handlebars, I would have thought your add-ons were OEM.
Regards,
Ed
Ha, I did that video specifically to try to work on audio since drones don’t record sound and sound is so important. I recorded the van separately with a Sony digital recorder - actually from the week before. I tried to change the volume to match the theoretical distance of drone to van for each clip. I recorded one of my fans blowing to mimic the wind in the shot cresting the ridge without the van. Clearly I didn’t nail it!
I really like sound - music of course but also natural sounds so I’m trying to work on that; getting mics right, levels right and background down. It sorta ***** because I love listening to music in the shop while I work and recording means no music.
Let’s see how the next one goes. I’m trying a bit harder on that one. Even some of the GoPro stuff on the dirt bikes is an audio struggle. Sound is harder than video maybe. I’ve heard it said that people will watch blurry shaky footage before they’ll watch good footage with bad sound.
Gregor
nicholam77
Well-known member
Gregor, the fact that you already realize that audio is important will be invaluable to your edits. I 100% applaud you for that. A lot of people assume "editing" just pertains to video. It does not. To be a good editor you actually need to know many disciplines - acting, cinematography, music, rhythm, sound design, and sound mixing. And many more sub-categories but it all comes together, with a purpose, to tell a story or create a feeling.
A saying I've heard many times before is half of the picture edit is audio. Source: I edit TV commercials for a living.
The van drone video looks good. Just like you are experimenting with, more often than not in professional pieces, sound is designed. To augment what's captured in camera. This generally involves sound effects libraries, or foley. Music is great and can totally change the feel of a film, but sometimes thorough sound design can really set a mood as well (in this case connecting you to the nature, perhaps)?
I don't want to assume you are soliciting constructive feedback, so feel free to ignore, but I'm going to leave some thoughts I had anyways in case you're into it:
- Generally unless you're going for a "jump cut" type effect, flow will be smoothest from shot to shot if either there is a change in angle, or distance, between them. Or both. When I edit car footage I tend to favor shots where the camera is moving around the car, and try to cut to the next scene from a different angle or distance. So if you've got a wide drone shot of the back of the van, you could try then going to a closer drone shot from the front. Or splice in some GoPro. You get the idea. This keeps the subject interesting and you notice the cuts less.
- To that note, a well known film editor, Walter Murch, and I'm paraphrasing, has often said something along the lines of "it's just as important to know why you're cutting away from something than what you're cutting to". Essentially, cuts should be motivated. Editing can be very visible for stylistic effect, or very invisible. I think in the case of this drone video, if the footage allows, you could let some of those shots play out even longer, and do less cuts, and focus on the strongest shots visually. In my eyes the hero is really the van and the scenery, and letting some of them play longer without a jump cut might let the viewer get more immersed and drink it in.
- I really enjoyed the shot at ~ :09 of the camera coming up over just the hill, no car. This would be called a "cutaway" or interstitial. Maybe next time you go out, try to grab some more cool nature shots, too! I could totally see at the beginning of this video, opening on several beautiful drone shots of the scenery, or maybe of the dirt road, building up the sound (wind, birds, running water, etc) before even showing the van. Sets the tone and location and gives a bit of a reveal instead of jumping right into it. Same with the ending... could be really cool to end on a beautiful sunset timelapse of the tree line fading down to darkness. All good stories have "arcs".
- The sound effect you recorded of the wind is great, but it does sound "close-mic'd". I think something where the wind sounds farther way would work better and make the location feel "bigger". A great resource for finding free sound effects is actually YouTube! A lot stuff out there available to download under Creative Commons license for free non-commercial use.
I hope that was helpful and not intrusive. You are doing great. Just remember, like I'm sure was the case with your photography career, if you take it to a high level video editing actually is an art, and it doesn't happen overnight. The best medicine is practice. Having the photography background is huge as you will already have strong visual instincts on composition, and what looks good.
The last thing I'd say about editing is there is no "right" way to do it. Sure there are general common practices but overall it's a very personal process and that's what makes each video unique. So, keep following your gut, and keep making content!
Nick,
Thanks. It's very appreciated to get the feedback from someone with the actual skills.
In many ways what I'm doing feels like contrived school projects. And really that's exactly what they are.
I am fully with you on too many cuts for the drone. Much like the rest of my skills, my drone skills are nascent so I cut where I blew it and jerked the sticks in the middle of a good tracking shot. My goal was a long solid follow and it didn't help that I was bouncing around in the back seat.
I've reread your post a few times now - it's good info. I just was editing some GoPro from the helmet cam on the dirt bike but now I'm going to go back and look for some other things to cut in. Honestly I find B roll far more interesting to shoot than the main aspects of the story - it feels at once to be visual candy and also very meaty with information. I want very much to focus on that. The show "Chef's Table" is an inspiration for me but feel free to recommend others that seem appropriate.
The goal is not try to try to recreate the reality but to recreate the feeling and I think this is where your advice hits. In some ways my skills as a photographer are helpful - composition and lighting aren't things taking up a lot of my brain power. In other ways this is a totally new way to tell a story and I'm pretty lost with the utter complexity of the equipment (sound, focus, file formats, speeds, stability, parallax...) and the editing. Not just the concepts but the physical aspect of learning hundreds of new features, keys, etc. I compare it to wanting to write a novel - but in French. And also learning the language at the same time. Comment dit-on video editing en français?
I picked up a small slider and I'm interested in shooting stop motion with that as well as still life type details. That is the counter point to the drone - detail and big picture.
I gave up Rush and editing on the phone and I'm back into Premier but with bite size projects. Every 5 minutes I'm looking up a key command or technique so it's slow. Some day I'll get to the flow place/pace.
Feel free to continue to give critiques - it's much appreciated. Thanks.
Gregor
Thanks. It's very appreciated to get the feedback from someone with the actual skills.
In many ways what I'm doing feels like contrived school projects. And really that's exactly what they are.
I am fully with you on too many cuts for the drone. Much like the rest of my skills, my drone skills are nascent so I cut where I blew it and jerked the sticks in the middle of a good tracking shot. My goal was a long solid follow and it didn't help that I was bouncing around in the back seat.
I've reread your post a few times now - it's good info. I just was editing some GoPro from the helmet cam on the dirt bike but now I'm going to go back and look for some other things to cut in. Honestly I find B roll far more interesting to shoot than the main aspects of the story - it feels at once to be visual candy and also very meaty with information. I want very much to focus on that. The show "Chef's Table" is an inspiration for me but feel free to recommend others that seem appropriate.
The goal is not try to try to recreate the reality but to recreate the feeling and I think this is where your advice hits. In some ways my skills as a photographer are helpful - composition and lighting aren't things taking up a lot of my brain power. In other ways this is a totally new way to tell a story and I'm pretty lost with the utter complexity of the equipment (sound, focus, file formats, speeds, stability, parallax...) and the editing. Not just the concepts but the physical aspect of learning hundreds of new features, keys, etc. I compare it to wanting to write a novel - but in French. And also learning the language at the same time. Comment dit-on video editing en français?
I picked up a small slider and I'm interested in shooting stop motion with that as well as still life type details. That is the counter point to the drone - detail and big picture.
I gave up Rush and editing on the phone and I'm back into Premier but with bite size projects. Every 5 minutes I'm looking up a key command or technique so it's slow. Some day I'll get to the flow place/pace.
Feel free to continue to give critiques - it's much appreciated. Thanks.
Gregor
nicholam77
Well-known member
Gregor, thanks for the response, and I totally understand this. There really are two fundamental sides to production and post-production: creative, and technical. I was mostly commenting on the creative, but yes there is a lot of technical stuff to get bogged down in! I probably put the cart before the horse a bit, and I know the frustration of learning a complicated software. I highly recommend watching some basics tutorial videos to get your feet wet. I think Adobe might even have their own free series.
It's a big undertaking to shoot and edit your own content. If you stick with it, though, I think you will find that your filming will inform your editing and your editing will inform your filming. Some editors only edit and have never picked up a camera, and some DP's have never sat behind a computer and edited. Hard to do both, yes, but I'm a strong believer it will actually help you learn quicker. Case in point with the drone shot joystick bump... I figured that might be the case. Stuff like this happens all the time, even in the professional world. But now you know it restricted the length of the shots in the edit. Next time you go out to shoot it might be in the back of your mind. Eventually, you'll have a concept for a video in your head before you start, and it will make both tasks easier.
Yes, I think that's where I was going with it. Obviously it depends on the video a bit, if it's purely informational-human-talking-to-camera, then it's probably a bit more straightforward. But in the case of the van drone video or similar, yes, I believe there is an opportunity to appeal to emotion. Editing can help with that. Sound design can help with that. So can music. You get to decide what you want to communicate to the viewer... is driving the van on those roads serene, quiet, beautiful, and awe-inspiring? Or is it badass, high-octane, mud flying, exhilaration? How do the scenes and the edit support that? The first one might be longer shots and no music, just nature sounds, kind of like you did, and the second might be quick cuts, lots of close ups, and a rock n roll music track. Same subject, different take on it. These are not critiques on your film, just some things that go through my head on every project. Realistically no one is going to analyze your videos like this while watching them, but all the details and forethought in how it's presented does have a (usually subconscious) effect on the viewer and what they take away from it.
To your point about being inspired by Chef's Table, I would say that is awesome, and finding something you like, analyzing what you like about it, and trying to emulate it is another great way to learn!
By the way, I am a long time reader of your thread. Particularly a fan of the home renovations but have read it all. I haven't commented often because the stuff you're doing is usually way out of my comfort zone, but being that video is something I actually know about -- if you ever have a question about how to do something in Premiere, video codecs, or whatever, feel free to send me a PM and I'd be happy to try and help!