VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[MattGavriloff]

Quick little clean and lube done one the "craftsman/dunlap" drill press vise.

The before and after shots of the body are to show the slight color change after simple green soak/wire wheel, and then with RemOil applied. Just for those deciding on finish options.

A little Red Mobil 1 in all the right places and she's all ready for use!

 

[PierceA]

TLowe: I'm green with envy. To acquire a Wilton 800 for free is just amazing.
And you did a fine job with the restoration.

Congratulations.
PierceA

 

[drivesitfar]

FRETTERS: it's great to have you posting again and I know you won't do that ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM STUFF Too often.

Tlowes: great save!!! did you turn the end piece 180 degrees and then tap and put in threaded pins to hold the vise nut in place?

I also like the custom name plate cutout in front of your bench.

i'm usually not a fan of the 8 inch Wilton bullets cause in my mind a terrible design (top heavy and more than a few of the swivel bases broke/cracked), but I do like that version with the nuts holding the jaws in from behind.

WELL DONE and thanks for sharing.

MATT: I can barely tell the difference of a cleaned vise and when it's got a bit of oil on it. your call on PAINTING VISES cause they are yours, but i do like UM NAKED.

 

[NYCone]

I could use advice on a Columbian 605 1/2. The slide has a hole in it. Can this be welded or is it a lost cause?

 

[drivesitfar]

do you have any better pictures? WTF did some one do to that vise is beyond me, but it looks like it still is a working vise.

if the top of the slide is smooth or can be made that way and the screw wasn't damaged by whatever made that hole I bet that vise could work ok for another 100 years. heckuva a way to put an oil/grease hole in your vise though.

 

[Outlawmws]

If it will open adn close fully without binding, Probably reparable. If they whacked it so hard is in a bind, that could have complications. YMMV.

 

[Fretters]

Vice stand related. Finally got round to finishing a couple of sockets to affix the shelf today. They affix to the wood by a single screw through the centre. The sockets are a slip fit over the rods.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: looks very nice. I hate to ask, but what is going on that shelf?
WELL DONE!

 

[Fretters]

Don't worry. It's not Jumbo going on there.

 

[Outlawmws]

Nice! I like it!

 

[Fretters]

Cheers. I know I'm not keeping it original & making it a file rack, but it seemed a shame not to utilise those holes. Never actually seen one with the file rack fitted.

 

[NYCone]

do you have any better pictures? WTF did some one do to that vise is beyond me, but it looks like it still is a working vise.

if the top of the slide is smooth or can be made that way and the screw wasn't damaged by whatever made that hole I bet that vise could work ok for another 100 years. heckuva a way to put an oil/grease hole in your vise though.

I'm just getting it home and putting it into an electrolysis bath. The screw moves slightly, but not the slide. I took a closer look at the hole. It looks like someone tried to weld it in the past.

I had to pay $35 for the vise, nothing in my area is cheap. The person wanted $200, then dropped to $100 when they understood the damage. I waited, there were no buyers and I re-offered $30, and got it for $35.

I was hoping to stick weld or MIG with nickel/iron. Maybe using a cast iron patch to fill the hole. I'd take advice.

I'll take better photos when I get it out of the bath. The damage looks worse than the photo. It looks like the hole was the issue and a weld attempt was made, which failed. They took a lot of material off the end of the slide after they welded for some reason.

My question is, if the slide distant to the hole is all past weld attempt, should I patch as is, or cut out the old repair and maybe put in a new piece of cast iron welded to fill the hole? The height of the end of the slide looks like it needs to come up.

Most important, am I wasting my time? If the slide has this much damage, can it be repaired with reasonable cost?

Thanks

 

[Outlawmws]

Can't really say without much better pics - The key is the vertical sides on the slide - that's where the strength is for clamping. The top simply connects the two sides.

If the top damage creeped out to the sides as cracks, that would be bad...

 

[drivesitfar]

NYCONE: We could use more pictures to help you help yourself so if you can post them up please do. I click on the paperclip and download pics off my Iphone or laptop. or if you need a few more posts make some on other threads you are interested in and then start posting pix.

if the damage is just a hole on the top all you'd really need to do would be to smooth it so the slide goes in and out ok.

just an FYI. i've bought several vises with damage so i'd have a few extra parts in case a better vise of that model showed up and needed some cause i'm not a machinist and they don't make parts for many of these old vises.

good luck!!

 

[wrecks]

I was talking with my father-in-law earlier today about the Wilton vise I'm fixing up and I found this one in the attached pictures in his garage. No date stamped, so I'm guessing this is pre-1945 based on what I've read.

 

[Outlawmws]

Likely

 

[drivesitfar]

Wrecks: I kinda doubt your Wilton Bullet is older than 1945, but it left Wilton's Chicago factory before 1955. I can kind of make out some sort of #'s on the key way on the bottom of your dynamic you posted, but you'll have to look closer with your eyes to maybe tell us if you see a date there.

it's a good old vise.

 

[wrecks]

Wrecks: I kinda doubt your Wilton Bullet is older than 1945, but it left Wilton's Chicago factory before 1955. I can kind of make out some sort of #'s on the key way on the bottom of your dynamic you posted, but you'll have to look closer with your eyes to maybe tell us if you see a date there.

it's a good old vise.

I’ll grab it for another look next time we visit, but I looked pretty close and didn’t see anything. Thanks for the help!

EDIT: Wow, you have a good eye! I just looked at the original image from my phone and you are correct. I do indeed see a date stamp there that I missed with my naked eye and that my phone picked up. From zooming way in it looks like "5-945".

 

[drivesitfar]

WRECKS: I started a WILTON BULLET vise date stamping thread so the members could discuss when the vises were actually made if you want to post up pics of your Wilton and read that thread too.

if that's the date on the slide then your vise left Wilton's factory just at the end of WWII in 1945.

also if you look on that thread and this one you'll see Wilton bullet vises that looked worse than that spiffed up and they look maybe better than the brand new ones.

I think Wiltons in the 40's and 50's left the factory with swivel bases, but maybe not cause yours is missing it. that said many vises are mounted like that and I actually am learning to prefer non swiveling vises cause it's normally a weak point on some of the bigger vises.

 

[NYCone]

Here are some photos of my Columbian 605 1/2.

The dynamic jaw is frozen at the moment. The screw turns a 1/4 turn the the backlash is taken up.

The slide is the biggest issue though. I'm still de-rusting the vise via electrolysis, so I haven't used a wire brush.

I'd take advice on how to best fix the slide. The rest of the vise looks pretty good.

 

[drivesitfar]

better pics so thanks for that. WOW that's a challenge. can you put a straight edge on the bottom of the back of the slide cause it also looks like it's bent upwards?

i'm only a beginner welder so i'll let the pros chime in. while an old 5.5 inch wide made in USA vise is always worth trying to save you have a lot on your list with this one.

so at this point until you figure out how to get the main screw out i'll wish you some GOOD LUCK and watch and help if I can.

 

[Outlawmws]

Measure the width and height if the damaged area and compare that to the (hopefully) undamaged area under the jaws. You may need to take high spots down to get it apart.

 

[NYCone]

It does look bent upward. I think its really removed material by the prior welding attempt.

That said, I've never welded in my life, but I'm pretty good at learning complicated things.

My thought (based on no experience) is to either grind out the old weld, and make a cast iron or steel patch and weld it in place. The other option is to leave the old repair and try to add to it.

My question is, how viable is a repair. If in trying to repair this, I'll spend enough time and money to buy one in better shape, perhaps I should part this out to the forum. I'd love to repair it, but I am trying to be realistic.

Finally, I've never had an old vise, I'm not even sure how to disassemble it. I've done harder things in my life, so I'm not trying to shrink away from this, but I also don't want to waste time if this is a lost cause.

 

[Outlawmws]

It's hard to tell until its apart, but:

• Do the measurements I suggested
• Get any obvious high spots flat/draw filed flat
• Lay a straight edge on the parts you can get to on the slide. is it bent?
• do you have access to the main screw from underneath? (particularly near the head of the screw - (Pics please)
• There usually is a collar to lock the screw in place. sometimes staked sometimes with a pin, sometimes with setscrews.. This can free the screw, if accessible enough. but only really useful if a set screw is accessible.

The idea here is to get the screw out of the way, or at least unlocked so you can press the stuck part without breaking the main screw or nut...

With a 5-1/2 inch jaw, its getting to the big boys area, so more worth it to fix it if you can than a smaller vise.

 

[NYCone]

It's hard to tell until its apart, but:

• Do the measurements I suggested
• Get any obvious high spots flat/draw filed flat
• Lay a straight edge on the parts you can get to on the slide. is it bent?
• do you have access to the main screw from underneath? (particularly near the head of the screw - (Pics please)
• There usually is a collar to lock the screw in place. sometimes staked sometimes with a pin, sometimes with setscrews.. This can free the screw, if accessible enough. but only really useful if a set screw is accessible.

The idea here is to get the screw out of the way, or at least unlocked so you can press the stuck part without breaking the main screw or nut...

With a 5-1/2 inch jaw, its getting to the big boys area, so more worth it to fix it if you can than a smaller vise.

It'll take a better look in a couple of days. My electrolysis only got the stationary jaw the first run, so I'm doing the dynamic now.

 

[PierceA]

NYCone: electrolysis should eventually remove the rust between the slide and the static jaw. Have patience. If it does not free up, the slide can be removed from the static, but it will take a bit of work.

First do NOT hammer on any part of the vise. The holes in the slide were caused by some gorrilla using the precise, machined slide as a convenient anvil.. any hammering may cause the slide to finish cracking off and then the vise is nearly worthless, or at the very least, a much bigger challenge..

To get the dynamic jaw to come out of the static, I'd use wedges. Cut some wood pieces, like pieces of 1"x3" or whatever will work. You need to have two pieces that fit into the inside curve of the jaw supports, above the slide. Sand or shape two pieces to be 1/2 round and fit snug against the inside of the jaw opening. In the gap between the two pieces of wood, you are going to drive wedge shaped pieces of either wood, or metal or maybe plastic. There are various types of wedges available at lumberyards. These are used to shim up houses, or beams or in smaller instances shim a door or cabinet. You want to find something that you can drive into the gap between your jaws/wood blocks.

Even a hatchet/ small axe head has about the right wedge shape.. You are essentially making a manual 'jaws-of-life' to pry open the jaws..

With the appropriate wood blocks and wedges in place, drive the wedges in, and watch the area of the slide where it comes out of the dynamic. Mark the slide with a sharpie or similar to be able to see any movement as the slide finally moves..

IF you have not been able to get the mainscrew removed, you must unscrew the mainscrew as the dynamic jaw is forced out of the dynamic.. If you were able to get the mainscrew out, then you just need to keep driving in the wedges, and eventually the jaws will move apart..

If the dynamic and static just don't want to separate, use heat on the vise static. A propane torch, or a good electric hot air gun will raise the temperature of the static jaw to several hundred degrees, this will slightly expand the iron. Hopefully getting the rust to let go it's hold.

Sometimes the wedges and heating process have to be done for days on end before the dynamic inevitably does succumb to the pressures and starts to move..
Soaking the slight gap between the dynamic and static with your favorite pennetrating oil may help.
I'd likely try some CLR bathroom rust remover, or in extreme instances some Muriatic Acid, [home depot, pool chemicals section]. IF using acid, it must be outdoors and use all the proper protections and have baking soda mixed in water to pour on any spills or clothes to neutralize the acid.. BE CAREFUL. and don't breath the fumes..

The dynamic and static WILL come apart.. You just have to convince them to do so.

PierceA

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

NY,

This is how I unstuck a very frozen morgan. I had a steel plate between the jack and the back of the slide. 12 ton jack almost didn't have enough to do it! The chain was starting to stretch. What ultimately did it was putting that heat gun on it for a looooong time and a 4ft pry bar wiggled in between the jaws. It finally popped and the rest went easy.

 

[LesserSon]

NY -
PierceA’s wooden wedges suggestion gave me a no-press, “two birds with one stone” idea.
You have the vise in a hydro-tank, right? While it’s in there, jam a dry wood block as tight-fitting as possible in the same place PierceA directed. Then keep it under the liquid until the wood swelling forces the jaws apart. The vise can keep derusting at the same time, and the liquid may function to lubricate the slide a bit, too.
Soaking wood to make it swell is an ancient technique that has overcome many “immoveable”objects.

Wood changes dimension most tangentally, less so radially, so if you can determing from the growth rings where the original center was, that should point to the jaws. That will give you the most pressure at the place you want it - along the top of the slide.

One concern I would have with wedging is the strength of the dynamic/slide coupling. Vises are designed to meet resistance on close with the screw backing the dynamic. The slide resists lateral or angular shifting - it doesn’t usually have to resist being pulled from the dynamic. I think it is possible that using wood-swelling or “jaws of life” could force the dynamic to separate from the slide, rather than break the slide free from the static.
So, a press, as Outlaw & MrW suggested, may be the safest approach.

 

[PierceA]

LesserSon: I agree that it could be possible to over-stress the dynamic jaw to slide joint. That is one reason I like using soft wood to push against the inside of the jaws..
I suggested the wood and wedges because those items seem to me like they would likely have around their home..
BUT I really like the method shown by MrW. THAT looks like it would be a great way to get the dynamic to move and it doesn't stress any part of the vise. Maybe a few marks from the chain links would show up.

PierceA.

 

[carpq]

Long time reader (without an account), first time poster.

This past weekend, I decided to clean up the vise I inherited from my father. The vise had been on his bench in our garage my whole life and not even he remembers where he got it. The vise was rusty, paint badly faded, and it skipped when you opened it - the spring would compress for a while and until suddenly the vise would jump to catch up.

I strongly suspect the vise is a knock-off Record No.3. It has all the right sizing, prints etc, but it doesn't have the Record logo on the right side --> it has an oval badge area (badge long gone) and it came painted red instead of Record blue. Help identifying it is certainly welcome!

On disassembly, I found that the washer holding the spring was bent. Not sure how to source a new one, so I decided I'd just flip it around for now... I tried snagging a replacement part from Irwin, but the newer Record No.3 vises have a smaller screw/spring/washer. So that got returned.

I wish I'd taken a before picture... but here's some shots of it after cleaning it up, taping it for painting, primed, and post paint (I didn't try for a match). I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

 

[Outlawmws]

That oval is making me think Paramo instead of Record?

 

[carpq]

That oval is making me think Paramo instead of Record?

I thought so at first too... but all the Paramo vises I've found on the net have the "Made in England" stamp on the moving jaw (and usually 'Hi-Duty Vice" where my "Made in England" is). They also don't have the raised area on the base for the bolts to go through (whereas the record vises do). Hence my guess that it's some sort of knock-off Record.

 

[Outlawmws]

Have you compared to Woden?

 

[MattGavriloff]

FRETTERS will be along soon to sort it out, he's probably sleeping right now...lol


Regardless, nice looking vise!

Been a bit scarce lately because work has been keeping me running ragged, but here are a couple of my recent acquisitions. A Parker 974, and a 953. The 953 is already soaking in simple green in preparation for my preferred Parker appearance, naked...lol. The 974 I'm debating cleaning it up and leaving the existing paint. I don't know if it's original, but it looks old, and might look nice cleaned and wiped down as is. Then again, I just love the mechanical/industrial look to a bare metal Parker.

 

[Fretters]

Definitely looks like a Record, with that base design, so I'd say either Record, possibly an early Paramo, (it may have been before they sorted tags for casting), or whatever the name of that Canadian company is which produced similar, (due to your location).

 

[drivesitfar]

CarpQ: first off WELCOME TO GJ and thanks for signing up and joining the group so you can post words and awesome pics.

it's hard to tell if it is a Record or Paramo so maybe we'll be able to help you or you'll find your answer once you look at a lot more pics that are buried on the big vise thread and other small threads here.

I can say you've done an EXCELLENT JOB spiffing your vice up and that red looks great even though you might have heard i like mine NAKED.

I have one question for you if you don't mind sharing. Since your vice has the same closed end on it's dynamic slide like all my Record vices do how did you remove it from the main body? I haven't taken any of mine apart and I have a pretty good idea on how to, but I'm pretty sure nobody has discussed this here on this thread since I started it about 7 years ago and i'd love to hear how you put it together too.

Matt: so you like your vises (or just Parkers) NAKED and you have several in line for painting so guessing they are going down the road? i've always wondered about holes on the sides of jaws if that was something Parker did or if they were all past owners of the vise that drilled holes to attach some sort of jaw covers?

Pierce: nice write up and I hope it helps NYC with his challenging Columbian.

Mr. W: looks like one way to get r done. how long do you heat it up before cranking on the jack? And i'm guessing you move heater to other side of static too?

Fretters: with the MADE IN ENGLAND on the sides of his vice i'm guessing it came from your side of the pond. I'm pretty sure Paramo had that raised oval in the casting, but I can't recall if the old Record vices did? I know both companies made similar vices cause I think owners were related and were probably working off the same patent and design? without a name on the vice it does scream PROTOTYPE (or as you say maybe KNOCK OFF).

 

[ed4banger]

Definitely looks like a Record, with that base design, so I'd say either Record, possibly an early Paramo, (it may have been before they sorted tags for casting), or whatever the name of that Canadian company is which produced similar, (due to your location).

So far all the Paramos I have worked on had an integral/non-removable nut. Made in England on the dynamic, Hi-Duty Vice on the static.

 

[Fretters]

So far all the Paramos I have worked on had an integral/non-removable nut. Made in England on the dynamic, Hi-Duty Vice on the static.

I've noted the same, but if the story is true that they became a secondary production site of the Record vices during WWII, then it's likely that they would likely have been producing them to exact Record spec & design at the beginning.

 

[carpq]

CarpQ: first off WELCOME TO GJ and thanks for signing up and joining the group so you can post words and awesome pics.

it's hard to tell if it is a Record or Paramo so maybe we'll be able to help you or you'll find your answer once you look at a lot more pics that are buried on the big vise thread and other small threads here.

I can say you've done an EXCELLENT JOB spiffing your vice up and that red looks great even though you might have heard i like mine NAKED.

I have one question for you if you don't mind sharing. Since your vice has the same closed end on it's dynamic slide like all my Record vices do how did you remove it from the main body? I haven't taken any of mine apart and I have a pretty good idea on how to, but I'm pretty sure nobody has discussed this here on this thread since I started it about 7 years ago and i'd love to hear how you put it together too.

Thanks!

Taking it apart isn't that bad. Just open the dynamic slide as far as it'll go and the end will slide past the pin that holds the nut in place. You can then tap the pin through with a punch and hammer. Once you've done that, take out the pin holding the washer in place on the screw so that the screw can move freely. Then slide the dynamic jaw all the way back in by hand (no screw action) and it'll bring the nut out the back with it. You can then hold the nut while undoing the screw to remove it... at which point the whole dynamic jaw can slide back out the front.

 

[drivesitfar]

CARPQ: that's what I was thinking and even though it's a PITA to remove i do like that Record made the enclosed end on a big slide to maybe keep some of the dust and debris out of the screw. while we are trying to solve your vice's history feel free to post up more vices (vises) if you have any and if you'd like to mention that paint's color and maker i'm sure i'm not the only one that thought it looked great.

without reading your original post how did you strip your vice and did you put on a coat of primer and how many coats of paint to get it to look that great? (If you mentioned this in your prior post disregard).