Old electrical breaker

[streetglider]

I belong to a boat club in which the members do all of the maintenance. My dock power box, like most in the club, are in pretty bad shape. In fact, I have watched them put these same boxes in and out every year for 30 years and they were in long before that.

My problem is that my breaker went out for my dock power.. I have tried to find a replacement but to my inexperienced eye, it clearly needs more than that. The breaker melted and ruined the part it mounts into. I cannot find that part because I don't know what to look for. Any suggestions? I intend to replace all of the wiring inside the box while I am doing this. I will attach some photos so you can see what I am dealing with. Thanks.

 

[grounded-b]

It will be cheaper and safer to just replace the entire 2 circuit breaker enclosure, and 2 new breakers

Steve

 

[alfredeneuman]

Instead of trying to find parts just replace the whole panel. It's not that expensive.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

new panel. dont bother with parts

also, i would make sure you have GFCI protection since this is a boat dock

 

[The Cobbler]

yes, I agree. time to put in a new panel(s)
find out what current code is, are GFCI breakers required etc . get a quote on replacing them through out the club

 

[streetglider]

Thanks for the replies. In this case, some argue that there is nothing wrong with the dock power pedestals now and they estimate the cost to replace all of them to be $80,000.00. I am at the end of the time I will be there soon but I have expressed my concern about this issue in the past.

Again, thanks for the replies. It is not the expense that concerns me but rather finding a way to mount the breakers inside the old pedestal. This is a picture of the pedestal. Is doesn't look like there is a panel inside like I'm used to seeing but that they are hooked on one end to a bar and on the other end to the part that melted.

 

[Bert_]

You either replace the whole pedestal or just get new guts if you can find them.

You might be able to get a GE TL240 and use the guts. I'm not 100% sure if it's the same though.

 

[Norcal]

The pedestal is a Midwest who are owned by GE, just replace the whole thing going to be better off then dinking with rusty old scrap metal.

 

[BillK]

Cobbler,
Can you open one of the other pedestals and get some good pictures of the part ? I would do that and take the pics to a local electrical supply house. I would bet they would be able to find the parts for you.

 

[Baydog]

Give the condition the whole systems appears to be in, whatever you do NEVER get into the water at that dock. Since it looks like maintenance has been neglected, the electrocution hazard is real. Each year people are killed at marinas when they go for a swim, or jump in to fix something, then grab the ladder or engine to pull themselves out.

 

[walta]

80K sounds like a lot of money until you think about what a jury would give the when your rusty poorly maintained outdated and clearly unsafe system electrocutes a family as jump in trying the save one another.

Seems to me 80K might be chump change.

Walta

 

[wyliesdiesels]

it always amazes when people scoff at replacing old sh*t that can cause safety issues and possibly even death... penny wise pound foolish as they say

 

[nadogail]

What price do you want to put on a life?

 

[driftpin]

I'd send a note to the AHJ, anonymously (snail mail). The place must-be pretty-big for a replacement to be an $80K job. If you decide to send a picture, take a pic of the guts of someone else's box.

I suspect the labor cost and parts to try to replace the internals, even-if you can locate them, would cost more-than simply replacing the entire unit.

I believe that if the exact replacement components are no-longer available, replacing them with 'whatever fits and works,' results in a non-listed assembly, which means a $Big Payday$ at-trial. I suspect an ethical electrical contractor would refuse the job of, 'just replace the guts,' if the original components are obsolete/no-longer available.

 

[dscheidt]

I'd send a note to the AHJ, anonymously (snail mail). The place must-be pretty-big for a replacement to be an $80K job. If you decide to send a picture, take a pic of the guts of someone else's b

The marina's insurer would probably be more inclined to act, it's their money on the line when this place kills someone. Insurers routinely inspect commercial properties, and make them fix stuff (or drop the coverage, if they don't), so the probably wouldn't even tell the place someone dropped the dime on them.

 

[streetglider]

I have an electrician that will look at all of this for me and I will mention my concerns to the club members again in a more formal manner. I think most of the members are like me with little real experience with a situation like this. I have no doubt they will act properly once that occurs.

 

[Bert_]

Thanks for the replies. In this case, some argue that there is nothing wrong with the dock power pedestals now and they estimate the cost to replace all of them to be $80,000.00. I am at the end of the time I will be there soon but I have expressed my concern about this issue in the past.

Again, thanks for the replies. It is not the expense that concerns me but rather finding a way to mount the breakers inside the old pedestal. This is a picture of the pedestal. Is doesn't look like there is a panel inside like I'm used to seeing but that they are hooked on one end to a bar and on the other end to the part that melted.

If you've got the whole thing out already you might as well replace it with a new pedestal. The only reason to replace the guts is to avoid tearing the whole pedestal out.

 

[Wrench97]

It's been a number of years but when we had the shore house with 4 slips I spent about $250 apiece for the pedestals and they were the cheapest I could find in south Jersey at the time, plus they were actually for RV use, the ones I see now are higher amperage have lights on top and hose bibs and run $800-$1000+ each.

 

[walta]

By the way, do we know what version of the code is being enforced at this marina?

What would the dock best systems available today look like?

It seems GFIC would be the bare minimum likely up stream someplace very dry.

Walta

 

[Wrench97]

By the way, do we know what version of the code is being enforced at this marina?

What would the dock best systems available today look like?

It seems GFIC would be the bare minimum likely up stream someplace very dry.

Walta

GFCI for 240v has only recently been added to the codes, for a marina a GFCI breaker on shore would be a major pita. And considering the amount of boats with onboard generators without them kind of useless..................

 

[AntonLargiader]

Dry-land breakers for docks are apparently in the 2017 NEC. With the danger of ESD being a known thing now, I suspect any marina could face liability for an event like that even if they aren’t technically on 2017.

https://www.esfi.org/electric-shock-drowning

That pedestal looks awful to me.