Tell me why I shouldn’t build a Blue Iris system

[Yankeefarmer]

Several years ago, I entered the quagmire of video cameras to keep an eye on my property and outbuildings. It started with a Nest cam looking at my detached shop. I later added a couple more, and, compared to having none, I was very happy with having a few days of video history.

Since the great pandemic of 2020, though, my ISP’s quality has diminished, and they are the only viable game in town. Load times to look live at a camera have lengthened, and buffering is frequent.

I had considered migrating to a Ubiquiti system, but some posts on IPCamTalk suggest that the Ubiquiti environment is a bit proprietary and subject to change. I also notice that there are availability issues with a number of their products.

Blue Iris systems seem to have a strong base of fans, and can use a variety of components and be customizable. It seems to be a sound base for a camera system for a larger residence with a maximum of 8 to 12 cameras. Does anyone here have experience suggesting against building a Blue Iris system?

 

[m32825]

Subscribed

 

[jkeyser14]

The biggest complaint I have heard is that windows updates occassionally screw with Blue Iris and take down people's systems until Blue Iris can release their own updates.

 

[rlitman]

The biggest complaint I have heard is that windows updates occassionally screw with Blue Iris and take down people's systems until Blue Iris can release their own updates.

I can't say I've seen much of that, but you do need to keep an eye on it. At work, we've been running a rather large Blue Iris setup for around 10 years now. It's grown over time, but has 50+ IP cameras, and runs on a pretty nice NAS.

The pros for Blue Iris are that it's pretty easy to maintain, and works well with a mis-matched environment (many vendor DVR's don't play well with the competition's equipment). The biggest con is that it is VERY CPU intensive.

 

[mhejl]

I've been running BlueIris for about 5 years without the issues mentioned above. It runs fine on a older Core i5 at less than 15% CPU running in background (4 HikVision cams), an Intel NUC in my case. If you run the monitoring window, it does eat CPU and with over maybe 6 cams the Core i5 would struggle.

You do need to pay the yearly maintenance fees, though.

 

[rlitman]

I've been running BlueIris for about 5 years without the issues mentioned above. It runs fine on a older Core i5 at less than 15% CPU running in background (4 HikVision cams), an Intel NUC in my case. If you run the monitoring window, it does eat CPU and with over maybe 6 cams the Core i5 would struggle.

You do need to pay the yearly maintenance fees, though.

Every camera and every monitor adds to the CPU load. Its just the way Blue Iris works, because everything happens at the DVR, which means that it doesn't scale well. A lot of proprietary stuff is able to off-load and distribute much of the processing work to the cameras themselves, which is why you don't see Blue Iris in larger (metropolitan, etc.) systems. But for residential use, it's got many benefits, and with 4 cameras and only one person watching the cameras, I can certainly see your i5 being fine.

At my work, we require a multi-socket server (I think it's 40 cores) to pull together everything smoothly, but as I said, it's 50+ cameras (could be closer to 100 for all I know), with usually half a dozen people monitoring them all the time.

 

[mhejl]

At my work, we require a multi-socket server (I think it's 40 cores) to pull together everything smoothly, but as I said, it's 50+ cameras (could be closer to 100 for all I know), with usually half a dozen people monitoring them all the time.

From the OP: maximum of 8 to 12 cameras

A Core i7 should scale fine.

 

[rlitman]

From the OP: maximum of 8 to 12 cameras

A Core i7 should scale fine.

I think so, but that depends an awful lot on the resolution. An i7 isn't going to cut it with that many 8MP cameras.

 

[BruceMc]

As someone who also looked at BI a while ago, how would that solve your problem with a lousy ISP?

 

[Git]

The biggest con is that it is VERY CPU intensive.

Have you kept up with it? Blue Iris enabled the use of sub streams in early 2020. The sub stream is used when viewing multiple cameras, motion detection, alerts, etc. The main stream is used when viewing a single camera, audio and that is the stream that actually gets recorded. CPU usage will drop dramatically when properly configured (each camera has to have the sub stream setup in Blue Iris)

I just built a new system around a core i5-10400 with 11 cameras - bandwidth is about 110 Mbps. CPU usage is right around 12%

Also, Blue Iris recently implemented DeepStack AI. What other system do you know of that identify objects and alert you when it is confirmed versus hundreds of false alerts?

Blue Iris also lets you setup a truly custom system. What lens do you need to properly cover the area (2.8 mm, 4 mm, what? if you don't know, this is where a varifocal camera can really help out) what is more important daytime viewing or nightime/low light. etc etc.

Signup for IP Cam Talk, and I would suggest getting your Dahua type cameras from Andy...

And, I don't understand what your ISP has to do with it unless your trying to view the system remotely? Lastly - don't chase megapixels, the size of the sensor is more important

 

[dcg9381]

CPU is the only downside, seems to me. Processing is done on the DVR. It's an "open" system.

Can anyone tell me how well the mobile app works?

The other system I'm considering is below. Processing is done on the cameras, but it's a "closed" system - have to buy their cameras.

https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-protect/products/unifi-protect-nvr

 

[Git]

...If you run the monitoring window, it does eat CPU and with over maybe 6 cams the Core i5 would struggle...

You do need to pay the yearly maintenance fees, though.

Try lowering the 'live preview rate' to lower cpu usage while the console is open. (Global Settings -> Camera's)

The 'maintenance fee' (actually a support fee) entitles you to all the updates that are constantly being rolled out, like the sub stream and AI features - well worth the money.

 

[rlitman]

Have you kept up with it? Blue Iris enabled the use of sub streams in early 2020. The sub stream is used when viewing multiple cameras, motion detection, alerts, etc. The main stream is used when viewing a single camera, audio and that is the stream that actually gets recorded. CPU usage will drop dramatically when properly configured (each camera has to have the sub stream setup in Blue Iris)
...
Lastly - don't chase megapixels, the size of the sensor is more important

Yes, we use substreams. Without them, a system of our size with multiple viewers would simply not be possible.

As for chasing megapixels, it depends. You need at least 1 megapixel per 10' of distance from the camera (at a standard lens angle), for actionable facial recognition. If you expect to be able to make out a license plate at the far end of a 50' driveway with a 2 megapixel camera, think again.

 

[dcg9381]

The 'maintenance fee' (actually a support fee) entitles you to all the updates that are constantly being rolled out, like the sub stream and AI features - well worth the money.

Does not paying the ongoing maintenance actually disable any functionality (like AI) or does it just drop out updates and additions of new features?

 

[Git]

If you expect to be able to make out a license plate at the far end of a 50' driveway with a 2 megapixel camera, think again.

That license plate in the pic that I posted -> 2 megapixel camera, but the distance is closer to 100'

It goes back to don't chase megapixels, use the proper camera, especially in low light conditions.

 

[Git]

Does not paying the ongoing maintenance actually disable any functionality (like AI) or does it just drop out updates and additions of new features?

It just basically freezes you at the latest version before your support expires. Everything will work fine, nothing changes, just no new updates and added features.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

As someone who also looked at BI a while ago, how would that solve your problem with a lousy ISP?

With the Nest cams, I believe that everything I view- even live- was uploaded to Nest servers and is then streamed back down to me, since there is no local storage. With Blue Iris, I would be dealing only with my own network.

 

[BruceMc]

With the Nest cams, I believe that everything I view- even live- was uploaded to Nest servers and is then streamed back down to me, since there is no local storage. With Blue Iris, I would be dealing only with my own network.

Yep, that's what I wondered. I had the same problem, both with Nest and now Arlo. Although the brand is dissed at IPCamTalk, I eventually invested in a Lorex system with an NVR and eight 4K IP cameras. Does 95% of what I want it to do, although I wish it had better motion detection. I've had it up and running 24/7 for 16 months and have had few complaints.

I still have the 4 Arlos up and inside now, but my ISP managed to crash this weekend so I haven't been able to use them since Friday. The NVR still faithfully records everything, I just can't access it from the comfort of the couch now until my DSL comes back on line. I have to go out to the garage to the NVR to see what's happening.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Because we all like to know how a story ends, I thought I’d update this thread I started. In July, I found a refurbished i7 desktop into which I installed a Western Digital 2 TB Purple Drive. I hooked up an Amcrest camera, and I was hooked. Since then I’ve added 2 more cameras and a UPS. With the use of sub streams and other optimizations, my CPU is normally at 3-4%. The best thing, though, and what I was trying to achieve, is that using built in Blue Iris web interface UI3, my cameras come up almost instantly on my iPad regardless of my ISP status. Windows updates have been disabled, so no issues there. And I successfully set up a VPN on my router, so I can securely view my cameras from my phone when I’m away.

 

[Git]

Yep, once you get a decent system up and running, security cameras are like rabbits - they just start multiplying

 

[dcg9381]

I had considered migrating to a Ubiquiti system, but some posts on IPCamTalk suggest that the Ubiquiti environment is a bit proprietary and subject to change. I also notice that there are availability issues with a number of their products.

Blue Iris systems seem to have a strong base of fans, and can use a variety of components and be customizable. It seems to be a sound base for a camera system for a larger residence with a maximum of 8 to 12 cameras. Does anyone here have experience suggesting against building a Blue Iris system?

I was in exactly the same boat as you. I'd been setting up IP cams at my last residence (Nelly Security - HIKVision mainly) and had rolled them into my own type of system using a NAS, native motion detection on the cameras, and a linux server. System worked fine, but adding a camera was a pain in the ***.

When we built our shop, I put something together using Wyzecam - which again, are super easy (and cheap) - but are hobbled unless you purchase a $~24 per year subscription per year per camera.

I basically asked the same question as you - Blue Iris vs Ubiquiti. The main disadvantage of Blue Iris seems to be that you need a decent PC to run it - with associated power draw, etc. It is much more flexible than Ubiquiti. But what makes it flexible also makes it more difficult to configure.

I just bought (2 weeks ago) a UDM-PRO (ie "dream machine" Ubiquiti). Why? Mainly because of the bad-*** integration of the networking components. That's what sold me on it. I've been rolling my own for more than a decade and this darn thing just works. It's a bit like Apple - the interface, integration, and how you configure things is just super slick and it's so easy to get up and running. I have a bunch of access points and really need the overview and control of my network.

I'd love to tell you about the cameras, but as you've mentioned - they're basically sold out of anything between 1080p - 4k resolution at a reasonable price. And you're right, you're absolutely locked into their camera ecosystem. If they work anything like their networking components, it's going to be plug in and click a few buttons...

 

[AP514]

I agree 100% "DO NOT CHASE PIXELS" Learn about DORI
If you really want to go down the Rabbit Hole and LEARN how to get a great setup going. Then go to the IPCAMTALK site...Plain and simple.

to the OP...Blue Iris is well worth the $40-$50 a year.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

I was in exactly the same boat as you. I'd been setting up IP cams at my last residence (Nelly Security - HIKVision mainly) and had rolled them into my own type of system using a NAS, native motion detection on the cameras, and a linux server. System worked fine, but adding a camera was a pain in the ***.

When we built our shop, I put something together using Wyzecam - which again, are super easy (and cheap) - but are hobbled unless you purchase a $~24 per year subscription per year per camera.

I basically asked the same question as you - Blue Iris vs Ubiquiti. The main disadvantage of Blue Iris seems to be that you need a decent PC to run it - with associated power draw, etc. It is much more flexible than Ubiquiti. But what makes it flexible also makes it more difficult to configure.

I just bought (2 weeks ago) a UDM-PRO (ie "dream machine" Ubiquiti). Why? Mainly because of the bad-*** integration of the networking components. That's what sold me on it. I've been rolling my own for more than a decade and this darn thing just works. It's a bit like Apple - the interface, integration, and how you configure things is just super slick and it's so easy to get up and running. I have a bunch of access points and really need the overview and control of my network.

I'd love to tell you about the cameras, but as you've mentioned - they're basically sold out of anything between 1080p - 4k resolution at a reasonable price. And you're right, you're absolutely locked into their camera ecosystem. If they work anything like their networking components, it's going to be plug in and click a few buttons...

I think Ubiquiti makes great hardware. My experience with Blue Iris has been great; configuration was much easier than I had anticipated. It was no different than any other piece of software that I have learned to use. I expected some learning curve, so that was how I viewed and planned the transition- one step at a time. I can see where someone might get frustrated or concerned if they thought it would be plug and play. I found getting my first camera configured and recording was plug and play easy. Getting motion detection, alerts, notifications, and remote access took some experimentation and tweaking, but I never found myself pulling my hair out in frustration.

And I will maintain my service agreement to stay on track for upgrades. It costs less than my Office 365 subscription which I use several time a month, whereas you could say I’m using Blue Iris 24/7/365. (Shouldn’t that be 24/7/52?)

 

[slodat]

Just came across this thread doing a google search for something similar. I've had a Blue Iris system running 12 cameras 24x7 for six years. Zero complaints. It has been rock solid. Still running the same i7 machine I started with. Given how inexpensive RAM is, I'm going to give it a little more before I add another dozen cameras next week. Just switch to Ubiquiti UDM-SE and access point for routing and wifi. Agree with the previous sentiments about Ubiquiti.. solid gear. I have their pro 24 port POE switch coming to support the additional cameras.

I didn't know about the sub stream stuff with Blue Iris.. looking into that now.

 

[slodat]

I owe you guys a beer!



And after:



I’ll go ahead and add the RAM. It’s only a few bucks. I’ll probably add another big storage drive. Doubling cameras shouldn’t be an issue for this machine.