Major exterior update to 1955 ranch

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I own the 2,200sf house my parents built in 1955 and that I was raised in. Time for retirement to it. House was a very high quality build for 1955 ... but its 2021 now. Real plaster interior walls, complicated floor plan to maximize views on a river, lots of exterior walls and windows. I presume 2x4's with some kind of sheathing then early to mid 60's aluminum siding. House still has 90% of the original 1955 wood Curtis windoes. There might be a couple of modest additions as part of this project.

The aluminum siding is coming off and the Curtis wood casement windows are being replaced too. I'm thinking of:

1. pulling the 1955 sheathing off,
2. pulling the fiberglass batt (I think) insulation out,
3. doing any outside wall wiring I need to (all wiring is BX cable with two prong outlets),
4. then adding a 2x2 to each stud to get a 6" wall,
5. then spray foam insulation since I can't vapor barrier from the inside (the fiberglass might have kraft paper backing, not sure yet),
6. then OSB sheathing,
7. 1" styrofoam insulation,
8. Tyvek, and
9. Hardi-board horizontal siding.

Windows will be Andersen, Marvin, or Pella better to best grade picture and casement all installed probably.

The house is located NW of Green Bay, Wisconsin and faces west with the river to the west. The winter winds are brutal across the frozen river. I have tenants in the house now, they don't seem to complain too much about the heating bills in the winter (geo-thermal ground water heat pump).

I want to end up with a tight, well insulated house ... but I don't want to go too far beyond the point of diminishing returns.

What are the thoughts on what I've proposed? Does it make sense? Or am I going over board and beyond what makes economic sense?

 

[The Cobbler]

sounds like a lot of expensive work for a rental house. can you increase the rent because of all the work?
do you plan to ever live there?

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

sounds like a lot of expensive work for a rental house. can you increase the rent because of all the work?
do you plan to ever live there?

Great question. We plan on moving there in July of 2022 and start the renovation later. If I can find a picture ... I'll post it.

 

[The Cobbler]

ahh, if you're living there I can see it, for a rental I would think it's a bad investment

 

[The Cobbler]

the 1955 sheething is probably 1X boards. around here they would be anyway

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Here are some pictures.

 

[mcj115]

Instead of osb, stryophoam, then tyvek...why not try a ZIP R type of product which is one step and would have the foam on the inside creating a thermal bridge. This also allows for taping of the sheeting this better able to create an air barrier.

 

[Stuart in MN]

It looks pretty good to me as is...I'd figure out the cost of the work vs. anticipated energy savings, I suspect it will take many years to get a return on your investment.

 

[yeldogt]

Why not do an energy audit and see where the house stands --- You can also do a heat load on the structure and see where it falls with previous energy use.

Older houses tend to be uncomfortable because of leaks when heated with Forced Air and to slightly less degree hot water baseboard. The leaks make the house feel drafty when the Forced Air system turns off. Old houses with radiators don't suffer the same because the radiators keep putting out heat after the zone is satisfied. Modern modulating forced air systems eliminate this problem as they run low and match the loss. With a Geo and VS -- this should be a non issue

I think you will find that the added expense of ripping it apart will not have any payback. Tighten the structure ...sure. One also has to think the "pad out" very carefully as all the points around the house will change with the thicker walls -- many potential problems.

An energy audit will go a long way in finding the leaks and eliminating most of the issues.

As someone who has rebuilt many old structures -- think about the modest additions now. What you are trying to achieve with the. Hire some guidance. Spending some $$ upfront for a little professional architectural help will go a long way to make the house what you want. It's a mistake to do these in stages.

I would not be ripping apart areas not being redone .... replacement siding yes.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Zone 6 or 7?

If you increase the depth of a 2X4 wall to 2X6, use closed cell foam, you’ll have at least an R21 wall insulation. Zones 6 and 7 have a minimal requirement of R19. So, there’s no need for additional sheet/board XPS.

Plus, it’s worth mentioning that increasing the insulation in the attic will do more good/ROI than wall insulation. You can improve the envelope efficiency with newer/higher Rvalue windows- and casement windows certainly seal much better than any other multi-sash type windows.

 

[CraigStu]

The one possible problem that stands out for me is the additional wall thickness and how that will work out w/ soffits, door and window trim, outside hose bibs, electric meter and the feed into the breaker box, etc. I think I'd first look for a spot in an outside wall to open up a 6x6 inch hole so you can look all the way though to the outside to verify what is actually there. If 'The Cobbler's thought that it is 1x boards turns out to be correct I'd hate to pull them off to install insulation.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Wrap the house in 2" zip panels, right over the original sheathing. Use the whole zip system to seal it up. It'll save you tons of work and agony, and it'll perform excellently.

I can seriously recommend Marvin Infinity windows. They are strong, easy to clean, and look like new over a decade later. And they still seal like new. You can get them in replacement, or nail on flange versions. I did the nail on flange type, replacing all my ever crappy Andersens. One of the best things I ever did.

 

[mike93lx]

I'd probably just rip off the siding, add foam board or rock wool comfort batt and then reside. Ripping off all of the exterior sheathing is going to be a massive amount of work. You could also have blown in insulation added to the cavities with just some holes drilled

 

[SamuraiJack]

Are you planning on selling it when the remodel is complete? You may have diminishing returns on every dollar spent.

On the flip side if you plan on staying there for a long time the energy audit/siding/windows/garage doors/exterior doors and attic insulation would be my plan. Then spend any money left over on that garage refit.

 

[justanengineer]

I’ve rebuilt quite a few mid century ranches. Usually the plaster in those homes makes them amazingly tight and energy efficient. I would replace the windows, reseal doors, and replace attic insulation then reevaluate. Many of those homes were built with plaster inside, an air gap, then a laid brick exterior - no wall insulation bc they didn’t need it. Depending on age/efficiency of the furnace, you may also want to upgrade.


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[Dick in Wisconsin]

Thanks for all the great suggestions, ideas, and cautions!

1. I will do the energy audit and blower door. I see real value in doing that before I begin.
2. In addition to windows and siding, I plan on replacing all the doors, soffit, and fascia (S&F with Hardie board ... I don't want to paint!).
3. Plan on dying in this house. I'm 68.
4. The main power feed is into a small porch area by the back door. There is only one outside house bib, I will probably add more.
5. My younger cousin spent quite a bit of his childhood visiting my parents in this house. He is a high end house architect in the Twin Cities area and excited to help with the updating that we're planning on.
6. The recommended "Zip Panels" sound interesting. I'll check them out.

Thanks for all the responses! I'll keep you posted!

 

[TLCObsession]

I love the idea of using ZipR - just consult with someone who understands building science to see where you are moving the dew point in the wall to. You don't want to end up with condensation on the back of the panels.

Basically you are close to a 'deep energy retrofit' which I applaud. If I was doing it in your climate, I would find a designer to help me work through the details so that I end up with a great end product.

 

[yeldogt]

Thanks for all the great suggestions, ideas, and cautions!

1. I will do the energy audit and blower door. I see real value in doing that before I begin.
2. In addition to windows and siding, I plan on replacing all the doors, soffit, and fascia (S&F with Hardie board ... I don't want to paint!).
3. Plan on dying in this house. I'm 68.
4. The main power feed is into a small porch area by the back door. There is only one outside house bib, I will probably add more.
5. My younger cousin spent quite a bit of his childhood visiting my parents in this house. He is a high end house architect in the Twin Cities area and excited to help with the updating that we're planning on.
6. The recommended "Zip Panels" sound interesting. I'll check them out.

Thanks for all the responses! I'll keep you posted!

I see problems making any kind of VB on the outside ... Zip is a VB. Do that energy audit.

Great that you have an interested party with the ability/ skill to help. Architects came up with things not thought about and sometimes what you think is the way to go is not .... I like pre-painted Hardie. My current project is using Boral for the facial and wide corner trim ... Boral is nice for places that would use a simple flat board look. w/oil primer and good top coat and it's good to go for many years

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I love the idea of using ZipR - just consult with someone who understands building science to see where you are moving the dew point in the wall to. You don't want to end up with condensation on the back of the panels.

Basically you are close to a 'deep energy retrofit' which I applaud. If I was doing it in your climate, I would find a designer to help me work through the details so that I end up with a great end product.

I am very concerned about getting moisture from the house into the wall cavity because I don't think there much vapor barrier on the warm, house side of the cavity. Hence my thinking to pull the insulation out and spray foam in.

 

[paredown]

We did a similar rebuild of a ranch in Arkansas when we were there, but I think we started with a less well-built house. We also did some structural stuff to open up the floor plan, make the kitchen more open etc--and we took in a former courtyard on the front (that was a water trap) and added a screened in porch/wall-o-sliders on the back for the indoor/outdoor feel. It was a lot of work, and for various reasons most was not done by me--and was very expensive!

Stuff like outside outlets and new hose bibs are trivial when you have the walls apart--but I agree with the energy audit/concentrating on sealing and the heating system. Probably a full third of energy loss is leaks/air changes--while walls and windows are a much smaller % of energy losses as a rule.

I have not used one of the external board products like ZipR--but I like the idea of leaving the exterior sheathing in place (where you can, especially if it is first gen fir plywood)--and I like your plan of working from the outside because it saves the plaster walls. Plus using a continuous sheathing product like ZipR would solve the thermal bridging you are getting with the conventional framing.

This is the one thing that bugs me about the renovation I'm currently involved with--I have had do most work including ceilings and walls from the inside, and have not had the budget to redo the plaster walls and ceilings...

 

[larry4406]

Nice view of the water!

I'm in VA, so my plan my differ.

My 1987 house we removed the vinyl siding, clad the house with 1/2" OSB as it had 1" DOW styrofoam instead of sheathing (R2.3?), 2x4's under with R13, new windows, and will install Hardy cement siding. Attic blow is very poor and will be removed. I will then have the attic spray foamed with ~2" foam to seal and then reblow to R49.

I would not even dream of redoing all walls to 2x6 with R21.

 

[Glemon]

We have a 50s ranch, no insulation in the walls, thick layer on the ceiling, brick walls. Heating and cooling costs are about the same as our former house we built in 95, with modern windows, insulation and sealing. The new house is about 20% smaller the the former house, which was a two story.

When it got to -25 last winter I went around with a temp gun and nothing undersink or cabinet by exterior walls was under 50 degrees. I think the biggest heat loss is from the large picture windows (double pane, but old tech) all along the living room east wall. I think wrap and foam board under new siding would be plenty, and tearing up to go full 2 x 6" frame would be overkill.

 

[GirchyGirchy]

I can seriously recommend Marvin Infinity windows. They are strong, easy to clean, and look like new over a decade later. And they still seal like new. You can get them in replacement, or nail on flange versions. I did the nail on flange type, replacing all my ever crappy Andersens. One of the best things I ever did.

Agreed. Ours have been on 11 years, I can't detect any sagging at all, even in the wider single-lock versions. They're super nice. They're pretty thin around the glass which helps when installing replacement versions.

Only thing I wish I'd done is get handles at the top, opening from the top is a PITA without them.