The VISES of Garage Journal

[drivesitfar]

NC: I never knew FPU (BISON from Poland) made a machinist vice and that's a BIG UN. nice find!! i'm guessing the static or back portion moves backward like their regular vices?

JKB: nice eye and good call!!

Lucas: I've always said that Wilton's best bullet design was their C2, but their babies come it a close second. it will last you a lifetime if you don't abuse it.

Shift: sounds like you just needed a little reason to go see your little girl. glad you could grab something for your trip and hope you had a good time.

 

[Shiftless]

Drives: Thanks
In reality, the trip was planned first and then I found that Luntz had a few extra vises from his auction haul so I set up a visit to his shop to help him make space and fill his wallet with some more green stuff.

I agree with you about the quality of the Wilton C series vises. My user is a C1.

 

[ncgun99]

Drives, the static/back jaw is stationary and doesn’t move. It operates like a normal vise.

Shiftless, good to know I’m not the only one that changes their location on all their apps looking for deals while traveling.

Concur with the C series Wiltons. Mine is a C2 and it’s the best.




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[LesserSon]

That’s 300 more than I bid.

Having watched three of these go for eye-popping bucks on eBay...
What is the large square-headed pin for? Is it really an anvil? Why would it be desireable to pivot? Why is it mounted only half-supported?
Since it was patented 17March1868 (St Patrick’s Day), why would that last seller claim only “120+ years”, instead of “about 150 years,” old?
1-3/4” / 2lb is cute, but why are these going for 200x 1870s dollars? That’s about 10x inflation, which is about what similar SIZE vises might sell for. Collectors’ passion only? Or is there a utility for which there is no substitute?

 

[jonshonda]

Got the new one home, makes the parker look like a baby.

Did you pick that up in Wisconsin?

 

[11b30b4]

lucasd2002, wait, what? who was selling that? I scour all the local selling apps 2-3 times daily and did not see that anywhere? Good snag on a great vise.

Lucas, we need to talk. PM me pls..

 

[2baditsnotachev]

Did you pick that up in Wisconsin?

No came from Davenport Iowa

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Collectors’ passion only? Or is there a utility for which there is no substitute?

Tiny jewelers'/watchmakers' vises have been all the rage and trending super high for a few years now, LS. There is another Prentiss available as a BIN right now for $699. You don't want to know what I've been offered for my Parker No. 316. In my opinion, utility has very little to nothing to do with the demand or the prices. Similar to the Wilton Bullet or Baby Bullet craze and prices. Are they good vises? Of course. Are they functionally better or more robust than other equivalent vises? Debatable. Even if one supposes that hypothetically, are they that much better or more robust than other equivalent vises? No way. Similarly, in short, there is no correlation between user value and the going rates for brand name tiny vises right now. It's clearly a collectibles thing. And I know you know I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Antique and vintage hand tools, vises, and equipment have a value that transcends the utilitarian whether strict utilitarians like it or want to acknowledge it or not. They're like macho Hummels!

 

[RTM]

Since it was patented 17March1868 (St Patrick’s Day), why would that last seller claim only “120+ years”, instead of “about 150 years,” old??

I always say 20 years post patent date when I mention an age, as in theory they would take them off after expiry. But 120-150 would not be out of line. assuming stamped on the item.

 

[ncgun99]

C2 complete. It was actually in pretty good shape. Someone took a grinder to the back of it though messing up the name on the Schiller Park casting. Guessing they were trying to figure out how to get the pins out.



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GJ is a bad influence. I just picked up a complete Wilton C2 Schiller Park with date markings from 1982.

This is now the largest vise I own (by any metric).

Seller's images attached as the weather has not allowed any pictures yet.

It looks like yours could have the letters from Schiller Park ground down also. That's interesting.

 

[LesserSon]

I always say 20 years post patent date when I mention an age, as in theory they would take them off after expiry. But 120-150 would not be out of line. assuming stamped on the item.

Good point. You’re right. I had an erroneously shorter term of protection in mind. Now I’ve looked it up again. In this case (patent between 1861-1994), the patent would have expired 17 years after issue date, assuming maintenance fees were paid, so “136+ years old” seems fair. Now it’s 20 years from filing date.

 

[RTM]

The math with 20 is easier than the math with 17, and I err on the safe side that way. Without a calculator or Excel, my math skills **** these days.

 

[dutchgray]

NC: I never knew FPU (BISON from Poland) made a machinist vice and that's a BIG UN. nice find!! i'm guessing the static or back portion moves backward like their regular vices?

JKB: nice eye and good call!!

Lucas: I've always said that Wilton's best bullet design was their C2, but their babies come it a close second. it will last you a lifetime if you don't abuse it.

Shift: sounds like you just needed a little reason to go see your little girl. glad you could grab something for your trip and hope you had a good time.

Bison Bial make a lot of high quality machine tooling, Dickson type QCTP and holders, lathe chucks, mill spindle tooling etc, Its more of a surprise they would bother making a bench vice than a machinist vice really.

 

[drivesitfar]

Dutch: I thank you for some information about Bison and i'm guessing since i own more than a few of their vises (and maybe one or two knock off copies) that i'd guess since they originated in Poland that Bison has a pretty good size business over there.

in case you missed these two awesome vises a member posted here a week or two ago i'm also curious what their story it. did Wilton have a factory in Italy? also that older bench vise sort of looks like a Bugatti. any information come to mind when you look at these? thanks in advance!!

I have a European vise here. My grandfather shipped it to us from the Netherlands back in the 60's.

I don't think NL had much of a vise industry then, so it could be German or other European maker. The only marking is "MM" on the rear casting. My Google searching has not turned up anything under that logo.

I'm attaching some photos. Has anyone seen one like this? Maybe some of the European members recognize it?

This one is an Italian Wilton. 22 lbs, jaws a bit over 3". It bears a date of 10-63 on the key-way. I think it's a one-owner vise. It does not appear to have been abused at all and the mechanism is very smooth.

Anyone know the history on these? Did Wilton have a branch plant in Italy?

the original posts and pictures are on post #83856 & #83857

 

[dutchgray]

I did see those posts, I have seen Italian Wiltons on the net before but never in person, know nothing about them though. The other vice is one of the common German types, occasionally one will come up here in the UK but I don't own one, they can be bought on Ebay from Germany though the postage is high and they are usually the smaller sizes, Bugatti vices are very obviously of the bullet vice style, you can still buy a British made reproduction new but they are very expensive.

 

[Trapps]

First, and I say this with a tear in my eye, there are more than eighty thousand posts in this thread.

Second, I have made it as far as disassembly.

New info:

Confirming what I had already seen:

Now I'll need about a month of Sundays to read up on this thing. As much as I am leaning towards 'Clean, Lube and Use,' there is a little part of me who's in love with some of the restorations you all have performed.

 

[rusty65]

To me as a collector I think the small jewelers vises are great because the space is very little that they take up and I think the designs are really awesome. Here is my collection.



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[Private Lugnutz]

Maximum minisculinity! (Nice collection, rusty.)

 

[drivesitfar]

Trapps: looks to me like you got it all apart without breaking anything so putting it back together after you spiff it up a bit more and grease it should be easy(er). there are plenty of guys willing to help you either here or over on the Vise Repair 101 thread if you need any just ask.

the only upgrade i'd do especially if you are going to keep it and clean it every few years is to upgrade the pins holding the vise nut in place to screws and grind off the threads where it goes into the nut (and tap the holes in the main vise so you can just unscrew them next time).

anyway best of luck.

Rusty: yep looks like you've acquired several of those rare beauties and i've yet to find one here in the wild with less than 3 inch wide jaws.

SWEET FAMILY PHOTO!! (do they multiply if you keep them close together?)

 

[ChefRex]

First, and I say this with a tear in my eye, there are more than eighty thousand posts in this thread.

Second, I have made it as far as disassembly.

New info:

Confirming what I had already seen:

Now I'll need about a month of Sundays to read up on this thing. As much as I am leaning towards 'Clean, Lube and Use,' there is a little part of me who's in love with some of the restorations you all have performed.

Clean up the bare metal, only original once.

 

[Outlawmws]

LS, at those prices it's all about bragging rights...

 

[PierceA]

Trapps: Your vise is in such good original condition, it would be a shame to 'restore' it. If you really want to have a glittery, shelf-dwelling restored vise, I'd find one that actually needs a restoration, there certainly are plenty of those around !
Much like restored antique cars: once you restore it, you become very aware of how using [driving] it will potentially cause paint chips, wear, scratches etc.. And the restored car sits in the garage. It gets trailered everywhere, becomes a 'trailer-queen'.

I live just 25 miles or so north of you, so if you want some help with modifying the retaining pins in your vise, just PM me and we'll set up a meeting..

PierceA

 

[va.grouseman]

Drive, I told you wrong, It's not a 145 it's a 140.---These are old pics but it hasn't changed since I took these.---Looks like silver paint but it's bare metal.---Will try to get some new pics.---It shows rust-spot-staining like 305 stainless will do.---I put 305 stainless pipes in my crawl space because the red clay and cat pee ate my copper lines plum up.---a dozen pin-holes.---The 20', 305 lines and connectors, (elbows, unions, *******, cut-off-valves), all 305 stainless, have the same rust specks as the 140.---And a magnet will attract to the plumbing the same as it does to the MORGAN, albeit just slightly.---Seller said it came out of a drug Co.'s R&D lab.---Probably Columbian.

 

[drivesitfar]

Pierce: I sure wish you lived closer to me. got any reason to move to the PNW and see the ocean, snow covered mountains and lots of green everywhere?

nice gesture helping Trapps with the pin upgrade if he chooses to go that way.

TRAPPS: if that Wilton was mine I'd finish cleaning it up with Simple Green, dry it off completely and wipe on a coat or two or three of BLO so the original patina (paint and rust) show thru. good luck!!

VA: I thank you again for sharing one of your GOLDEN MONKEYS with us cause I certainly haven't seen another one like it. wondering if anyone else has?

 

[PierceA]

Drives: with as many problems we have in Michigan, I believe moving to the west coast would be a disaster, both socially, financially and otherwise..

I cannot imagine the tiny hovel I'd have to live in or how far away from anything I'd have to locate to in order to be able to afford an acre anywhere on the west coast..

I have friends in real estate out west and the numbers they tell me that houses or land costs are just mind-numbing.. and unless you've been in one place for decades, the property taxes would put a dent in a billionaire's nest egg..

So I'll stay in Michigan, If I move anywhere it will be to Texas or similar southern state.

To replace my ~4000 sqft house, 4200 sqft heated shop, and the 6000sqft of barns and 150+ acres would be virtually impossible on the west coast.. unless I become a billionaire some how..

I'm a true gear head: I have more square footage of heated/cooled/insulated shop than living space in my home.. LOL.

PierceA.

 

[RBarnes]

So I'll stay in Michigan, If I move anywhere it will be to Texas or similar southern state.

Pierce, if you move to Texas you might as well quit collecting vises. Nothing seems to ever show up around here that is not pretty common. I end up going out of state for most anything "good". Asked a friend about it that looks also and he agreed.

 

[drivesitfar]

PIERCE: when I first started selling Real Estate in 1981 you could buy acres of land 2 hours west of me for $10 per acre, but no power and no water. $100 an acre for the power and water properties. if you'd like to be on the WET side of the cascades with the TECHIES and our nicer weather then you are right it does get spendy.

I can see why you wouldn't want to move if you have all that, but I personally am not sure I would survive a few months at teens temps much less 40 or so below like I hear your area has. if you run out of power and gas with temps that low I bet even you would have a hard time surviving.

RB: I hear you with the old vise shortage and might have something to do with a few guys down there buying up hundreds of them and setting up a museum of sorts. i'm sure there are still a few sitting in old barns and shops though so keep up the search.

ALL: normally I see a CWV (Chinese wonder vise) or a cheap wilton and occasionally a nice Wilton Bullet on the lift trucks in our town and had to shoot a picture yesterday of this one cause it did catch my eye. i'm guessing it might have been an Athol with it's lip on it's base, but it might have been an old Reed. anyway I wonder if any of you see 100+ year old vises on the back of any of your utility trucks in your areas?

 

[b.well]

Hello Vise crew.

It's been a long time. I need to post a few things for sure. I haven't been out like I was last year but I've picked up a few vises this year.

I found this Wilton Tradesman 1750 for sale. Odd thing to me is the city on the metal sticker is Des Plaines, Illinois. Now that's only 10 mins from Schiller Park...but Des Plaines? I believe Wilton went from Chicago to Schiller Park late 1956 thru 1957. There were also some years the tradesman was made overseas, maybe china(80s?), but I think this is USA, the pipe jaws are legit. Haven't seen the bottom. Older than 1995 because it doesn't say made in USA.

I just expect the label to say Schiller Park. If the sticker was missing as it usually is I wouldn't have been the wiser. I have seen a Wilton Tradesman 1750 from 1976 with a Schiller Park sticker. I attached a pic of this one for reference.

Any intel on Wilton Des Plaines IL?

Thank you and hope everyone is doing well!!!

 

[Vise]

To me as a collector I think the small jewelers vises are great because the space is very little that they take up and I think the designs are really awesome. Here is my collection.



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I feel the same way. Here's my collection of similar size:

 

[PierceA]

Drives: When I bought this farm in 1996, the going rate for a 10 acre parcel in 'horse-country' was around $100K-$120K. Larger parcels like mine were much less per acre. BUT today ? who knows.. lots and houses in 'subdivisions' are sky-high. BUT I won't live with my neighbor's house just 25 feet from mine.. not my type of living.

SE Michigan weather is very rarely less than 0*F. and usually we have only a few weeks of temperatures lower than 20*f at nights..
In my entire life, all within 30 miles of my current location, the actual temperature went below -20* TWICE; And below -10*F maybe 25 nights.
This last winter we had maybe five nights where the temperature was below +10*F.
We are surrounded by the Great Lakes which moderate our temperatures a bit.. Chicago to the west of Lake Michigan has colder temperatures than we do.

As for vises mounted on bumpers, it's rare, because of the salt used to melt snow and ice on the roads during the winter, and a much higher humidity level and rain amounts, a vise on the bumper would have a very limited life span. I do see mounts for vises, but the vises are in tool boxes on the work truck.

PierceA

 

[drivesitfar]

BWell: welcome back!! my guess is Wilton sold stickers and they probably didn't always pertain to where the vise was made. your vise looks a lot newer than 1950's so what is the date on the slide?

i've seen Wilton tradesman 1750's with John Deere, Snap on, Wilton, and a bunch of other stickers on them cause I think Wilton wanted their product to be sold buy retailers like Sears sold Columbians.

Pierce: any smallish homes with 1 or 2 acres, with 2000 foot home and 2000 square foot shop close to you for sale? maybe I can tell my bride that one of the GREAT LAKES is the ocean (hee hee).

good to know you don't get the deep freeze some of our members do in the mid west, but it's still probably too cold for me. do you have all 4 seasons or just winter and summer? I just saw you found a keeper and I bet others would like to see it lined up next to your 978 and other Parkers.

 

[PierceA]

I FOUND one of MY UNICORNS !!

I had a good vise hunt on last Saturday, the first photo is of the tailgate of my truck when I got home.
The Unicorn I found is the Green Parker 436 combination vise.. to me this is the next vise down the Parker product line from the 978 and 958..

I also found the largest Colton in their product line, a No.40, a 4-1/2" mechanic's vise, in nearly unused condition.

A Parker No.30 'oval-slide' vise, and several nice exposed-screw 3"-4" vises.

And a Prentiss No.182 with pretty rough jaws. but otherwise in good condition.

All in all a very good day.

PierceA

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Pierce,

Congrats! Those tall parker combination vises are some of the best looking vises around. The big bear is still probably number one on my dream list!

 

[wrenchguy]

Nice haul Pierce.

 

[autopts]

Great Pickup there

 

[Autoguy]

good

 

[RBarnes]

I FOUND one of MY UNICORNS !!

I had a good vise hunt on last Saturday, the first photo is of the tailgate of my truck when I got home.

All in all a very good day.

PierceA

There is a word for finding that many vises in one day, I am just not quite sure what it is.

 

[PierceA]

Well the midwest was the major manufacturing center for the country, and with that came lots of machines and tools..
I'm amazed at the number of vises, and other machinery that shows up around here..

RBarnes. I've brought home a much larger load a couple of times.. I'll see if I can find the post or the photos and repost them.. twice I bought out a former vise collection at an estate sale..
As for that word about bringing home so many vises, I hope it isn't one that cast's my collection 'vice' in a bad light.. It's not like I robbed a widow, or anything... there were plenty of other vise collectors who were bidding and buying too !! .


PierceA

 

[b.well]

BWell: welcome back!! my guess is Wilton sold stickers and they probably didn't always pertain to where the vise was made. your vise looks a lot newer than 1950's so what is the date on the slide?

i've seen Wilton tradesman 1750's with John Deere, Snap on, Wilton, and a bunch of other stickers on them cause I think Wilton wanted their product to be sold buy retailers like Sears sold Columbians.

Drives

Thanks for the welcome back and intel. The Wilton 1750 I am guessing is 70s or 80s. Never know though. Father gave to son. Son kept a few years, never used, decided to sell. Ill see it tomorrow. I knew wilton made for snapon but not others. And if its a wilton label i just expect it to be schiller park.

Still curious when/why des plaines, IL. I should answer the when tomorrow

 

[Mark Stansbury]

The Falcon Canadian-made vise has been IDed by a man who contacted Vintage Machinery this week. His says Craftools London on the bottom, which is Craftools Ltd. AKA Henry Power Tools Ltd., London, Ontario. Pictures of his vise are on Vintage Machinery.

Three Canadian-made vises are unidentified on my personal list, except for Canada and the names Hercules, Maple Leaf, and Robin.