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Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT Mid-Century Moto Mecca Makeover

Workspaces between 485 and 705 squarefeet.

Pointbock

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Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
207
Location
AK
If I type this out, maybe it frees up some brain space and doesn't become this random thought that keeps popping into my head.

As an aspiring frame builder, I suspect you've seen Kristofer's (44bikes) thread - https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112578

It's not quite as active as yours, but there are more than a few parallels.

He welds, rides, teaches, moves Bridgeports over uneven surfaces, and makes hammers.
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I know you've got Sean as a great resource but I think you'd pick up a tip or two.

Oh, and you follow a certain thread on a garage-based forum for 7 or 8 years, it raises your expectations regarding photographs. We need new gutters, and looking at the "Photo Galleries" of the local shops is laughable. Nadia could hip-shoot a dog turd in the ne plus ultra poop-scooper with her eyes closed and give me better focus and detail than these numbnuts trying to attract customers on their business website.

Onward!
 
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smschriefer

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Joined
May 28, 2009
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842
Location
Yorktown, VA
I haven't seen you do it in awhile, but are you still making your son tools every year? What about your daughter, does she also get tools, or do you make something unique for her?
 
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sakurama

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Oct 10, 2010
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1,458
Location
Portland - the cool one.
I haven't seen you do it in awhile, but are you still making your son tools every year? What about your daughter, does she also get tools, or do you make something unique for her?

Sadly no. I haven't done that this or last year. Partly it's been business and some is interest. I've made some doll furniture for Nadia and I've been helping them do customizing of their Littlest Pet Shop toys but I regret I haven't made either a tool - nor for myself.

I was even thinking about that this week. He's into these toy robots and I think when you can anticipate the response (oh, that's nice...) that you realize you're actually making something for them when they're 20 or 30 but you're giving it to them now... well, it takes some of the energy out. Not a good excuse.

I have wanted to make Lucas a tool box and he was interested in it so I might try to do that. Another was a gyroscope. Sadly, and happily, I've been just slammed with work and have had so little time to do anything else. Free time is spent learning video.

I'm hoping to find some balance again soon.

Gregor
 
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sakurama

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Oct 10, 2010
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Location
Portland - the cool one.
If I type this out, maybe it frees up some brain space and doesn't become this random thought that keeps popping into my head.

As an aspiring frame builder, I suspect you've seen Kristofer's (44bikes) thread - https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112578

It's not quite as active as yours, but there are more than a few parallels.

He welds, rides, teaches, moves Bridgeports over uneven surfaces, and makes hammers.

Ha, Kristofer's thread I followed a lot when he was building his shop. He's one of those guys who's so together and on top of it all that you become jealous - how's that possible to be so good at all those things? I know people think that about me and I find that amusing because I don't think it about myself.

That is a feeling that comes and goes of course.

Gregor
 

Choirboy

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Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
178
Location
SE Iowa
Ha, Kristofer's thread I followed a lot when he was building his shop. He's one of those guys who's so together and on top of it all that you become jealous - how's that possible to be so good at all those things? I know people think that about me and I find that amusing because I don't think it about myself.

That is a feeling that comes and goes of course.

Gregor

So I'm going to be "That Guy" and tell someone that they are wrong about themselves. Sorry about that. But you are creating a wonderful example of the other end of the Dunning-Kruger spectrum. While most people are familiar with the more comical end in which people of low abilities grossly overestimate their own capabilities, the lesser known end of the spectrum shows that people with very high capability often underestimate their own abilities. From the distance created by the internet, that seems to fit you.

I'm not sure I'd give my left arm for some of your supposed incompetence, but I'd consider a few fingers. Yes, there are people more talented than you, but there are a lot of us way less talented, as well.
 

neduro

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Salida, CO
One thing that I added that has been a real disappointment was the TrailTech Voyager Pro GPS/computer/dash. It can't route which makes it a pretty useless GPS and despite being hardwired in it seems to constantly restart as if the power was interupted.

Catching up again... inserting some info here regarding the Trailtech. I have a bunch of miles on mine, with a mixed review to offer. The buddy feature is awesome if your friends have one, but the GPS unit is slow to update, a lack of routing seems BS in this day and age, and there are lots of minor aspects that are somewhere between annoying and worse.

Far and away the biggest problem is the power issue you are facing. I've found that wrapping a 1/2" wide section of front moto inner tube around the unit and cradle so that it holds the bottom of the unit tight to the cradle helps. You can also put a thin piece of foam on the back of the unit so that it is held firmly by the slots at the front and can't bounce. Once it starts bouncing, the pins wear out quickly, the spring becomes the conductor, and they anneal and quit working. TT will warranty the dock if necessary, and they'll tell you to peel out the rubber seal around the pins and pack it with dielectric grease.

Finally, there is a setting for how long the unit stays on after losing power. Set that to a longer interval.

They are game changers for snowbiking because you can see your friends... but they are marginal for adventure use is my ultimate review. Gratuitous action shot included, you'll have to trust me the TT VP is in there.

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burger

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Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
986
Location
Erf
Hello Gregor,

Waiting on your post.

A few weekends back I met up with some friends at Pizzeria Beddia in Philly. Expensive and delicious. When you next end up in Philly, check it out. I have Joe Beddia's pizza cookbook and his spring sauce and garlic sauce are both amazing. I figure Philly knows garlic better than most.

On the adventure travel front, I am planning an epic trip for June to the southwest with my kids. Zion, Grand Staircase, Vermilion, Lake Mead, Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde, Arches, Canyonland, Bryce.

Trip is predominantly camping. I can't wait to get back to normal travel! Vaccines!


Ed
 
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sakurama

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Oct 10, 2010
Messages
1,458
Location
Portland - the cool one.
Sorry for my absence. I have been very busy with work which is great but my work is typically pretty all consuming when it happens. I went straight from an Oprah shoot into a Ducati shoot - strange mix.

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If you've seen any photos of the new 2021 Monster it's probably me or our second shooter Mike.

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One of the highlights of the shoot was that our pro rider was Jake Zemke who was one of my favorites when I was racing motorcycles in the early aughts. It was fun to sit next to him at dinner and talk about bikes, racing and his career and just get to know him over five days. He had seen Lara's XR100 build on my Instagram and immediately showed me photos of his mini.

i-sxTcbHz-X2.jpg

It's fun and rare that I get to do a shoot and have no embargo preventing me from sharing the shots so these are a few of my favorites. Most days we were working with various journalists but the first day and some of the mornings and evenings we snuck out with Jake to get some of the more iconic shots.

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We shot in San Francisco and the surrounding mountains south near Alice's Restaurant. I of course did not get to ride the bike.

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That last shot is Jen Dunstan of Revzilla and she was very cool and a great rider too.

With so much time behind the lens and the screen I have been a bit stir crazy for physical shop time. I have been riding in the mornings but otherwise it's been all screen work. So today I snuck into the shop after seeing a video on welding titanium and decided that I should just finally give it a shot. Sean gave me some Ti scraps he'd had along with a bit of Ti welding rod and I've been too intimidated or busy to give it a shot. For whatever reason I felt like I needed to just do it.

i-DQXbcKX-X2.jpg

I took the most messed up scrap because I look at all of the Ti as priceless so this bent up tube seemed about equal to my incompetence. Surprisingly it was not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be. Obviously I'm no Sean Chaney or Brad Bingham but for my first ever beads in this notoriously difficult metal I was quite happy.

It almost seems less tricky than stainless as it's more forgiving. Stainless will hole on you in nothing flat but Ti seems to hold. It's sticky so dipping is a bit tricky but it seems to have a pretty wide temp envelope compared to aluminum. It was not nearly as hard as I was anticipating and very fun. I want to do more and I have a lot of scraps left to play with so thanks Sean.

I have a lot of work coming up as well so it's going to hard to get much shop time but I'll see what I can do - for both of us.

Gregor
 

Bob Heine

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Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,707
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Gregor, I'm glad to hear you are busy with work. Even gladder to see you post. I have to agree on the stainless, I used a stainless MIG setup to weld up my exhaust and blinking was enough to blow a hole in it.
 

Vertigo Cycles

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Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
193
Location
Portland, OR
I love that you used the borked up bit of tube to cut and practice on. So glad to see you finally did it and finally learned that it's not hard to weld. Don't tell anyone how easily it welds though...let the mystique live on
 
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sakurama

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Portland - the cool one.
Gregor, I'm glad to hear you are busy with work. Even gladder to see you post. I have to agree on the stainless, I used a stainless MIG setup to weld up my exhaust and blinking was enough to blow a hole in it.

I learned on regular steel but my first "real" project was a stainless exhaust. I had no idea how hard it was and the struggle was tough. It took ages to get to a point that I was comfortable.

I love that you used the borked up bit of tube to cut and practice on. So glad to see you finally did it and finally learned that it's not hard to weld. Don't tell anyone how easily it welds though...let the mystique live on

Ha, I even cut off the straight parts so I only welded the bent/crumpled ends - I should probably look at ordering some tube and sheet to play with so it feels less precious. Thanks again Sean - if you hadn't given me this scrap I'm not sure when I'd ever feel "ready" to try titanium.

i-WxhWXrc-X2.jpg


I won't say it's "easy" but it's way easier than I expected. I am now curious how hard it is to form and machine. I want to make an expansion chamber for the KTM/Penton 250 flat tracker and was thinking of doing it in stainless but I think Titanium would actually be easier and more fun. Exhausts seem like a good training ground - not structural but with a lot of beads. I think I'll mock up a way to do pie cuts and start playing with that when I have some time.

I think, given the springyness of the thin diameter tube, that the bandsaw is maybe the best way to cut it. I suppose I could make mandrels to support the tube to use the cold saw but it "feels" like a bandsaw job. I didn't do much to clean the tube either - just a quick wipe on the outside. I didn't even deburr it on the inside. I can see how meticulous prep is essential here so I'll try to be more careful on the next go.

Can Ti be stretched? I'm wondering about a taper to join two tubes of different diameters. Can this be done with a press and heat or is the better method to form a cone from sheet?

There's a long way to go from "getting it" to being good and there's also the issue that it's much less forgiving of mistakes but this is a fun start.

Gregor
 

jdp993

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
21
If you're looking for some Ti exhaust inspiration there is a gentlemen on Instagram, @tron.huang who does beautiful work. He posts in bursts every 4-5 months or so. I'm hoping that is not actually how long it takes him turn out one of his master pieces.

I have wanted to make a dual outlet Ti exhaust for my RC8 and a Gregor Halenda tutorial down that rat hole would be just the thing for inspiration.
 

Trapps

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Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
2,003
Location
The Detroit Zoo
Any comments, yours as bonafide bike SMTE, or from the rider, on the new 'did-Ducati-really-give-the-fan-base-an-absurdly-ugly-and-not-at-all-Monster-like' Monster?

The exclusion of a trellis frame is such a departure from the Monster DNA and fairly polarizing among the Ducatisti - no guessing which camp I'm in. I get the performance and specs of the new bike, but IM(not so)HO, it should have been given a new identity.

In all fairness I have not seen one in person yet, but it looks quite small.

In other news, great shots! But then they're yours, no surprises. I LOVE the sweeper with so many rich, deep shadows and then the slice of light in the background funnels down and frames the rider almost perfectly. :bowdown:

Cheers!
 

Vertigo Cycles

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Jan 14, 2010
Messages
193
Location
Portland, OR
Ha, I even cut off the straight parts so I only welded the bent/crumpled ends - I should probably look at ordering some tube and sheet to play with so it feels less precious. Thanks again Sean - if you hadn't given me this scrap I'm not sure when I'd ever feel "ready" to try titanium.
Gregor

I have a bucket full of drops, most of which aren't useful to me. Before you go buying anything to cut up into practice pieces, let me give you some more so it doesn't feel so precious. A lot of the tubing is ~$2/in so use up as much of the free stuff as possible.

I won't say it's "easy" but it's way easier than I expected. I am now curious how hard it is to form and machine. I want to make an expansion chamber for the KTM/Penton 250 flat tracker and was thinking of doing it in stainless but I think Titanium would actually be easier and more fun. Exhausts seem like a good training ground - not structural but with a lot of beads. I think I'll mock up a way to do pie cuts and start playing with that when I have some time.

I think, given the springyness of the thin diameter tube, that the bandsaw is maybe the best way to cut it. I suppose I could make mandrels to support the tube to use the cold saw but it "feels" like a bandsaw job. I didn't do much to clean the tube either - just a quick wipe on the outside. I didn't even deburr it on the inside. I can see how meticulous prep is essential here so I'll try to be more careful on the next go.

Can Ti be stretched? I'm wondering about a taper to join two tubes of different diameters. Can this be done with a press and heat or is the better method to form a cone from sheet?

I don't have any experience with stretching tubes or rolling sheet product, ti work hardens in a hurry so keep that in mind and if you're going to machine fittings, try using CP rather than 6/4 if possible. If you machine 6/4, you really need to dial in your feeds and speeds and have SHARP tooling. Drilling and tapping it is where the real wizardry is, and most OTS drills and taps that you'd find in a hardware store aren't economical because they're toast after one or two cuts.

I think you're spot on with bandsaw vs. cold saw. You'd definitely need a mandrel on the cold saw or you run the possibility of losing teeth on your blade when the tube compresses and the blade grabs it.

There's a long way to go from "getting it" to being good and there's also the issue that it's much less forgiving of mistakes but this is a fun start.

Well, you did the hardest weld imaginable so I'd say you're getting it and well on your way to being very good. If you take a little more effort to prep the tubes, it gets even easier. I've told people for years, the key to being a halfway decent welder is to take the time to cut and prep the tubes correctly. If they're clean and fit well (REALLY WELL) it couldn't be easier. Though getting as good as Brad will take a little practice.
 
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sakurama

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After welding up the two bent tubes, and enjoying the process, I wanted to spend a bit more time on titanium. Not sure what the end goal is but I know I want to have this in my back pocket.

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I figured I'd cut some pie shapes and that would give me a of lot hood time in a small package.

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I set the miter sled to 5 degrees but I was using the wrong blade (too coarse) and the saw was really vibrating and the miter got loose. So my cuts were between 5 and 15 degrees...

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I sanded and deburred the cuts then wiped them down with some acetone. The issue I figured I'd have was the too-small ends on the cuts as it would put too much heat into a small area.

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I used some painters tape to hold the cuts in place. My fit up was okay but there were some tubes that didn't fit perfectly but I just wanted to run bead and not fret the prep too much.

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For this I put some aluminum tape on the ends and ran my loose purge fitting on the end. Again, I was not being too picky as I wanted to just get the feel of it. I knew this wasn't going to pretty but I was glad to get the feel of it trying some different settings, pulses and feeding. Consistent it was not.

I find that it's tricky to feed rod as titanium is "sticky" and if you accidentally touch the rod down before the puddle it won't slide in but will stick, out of the heat, forcing you to stop or try to skip forward to get the rod off.

Some of the welds are very silver (a good thing and the goal) and some have a bit of straw and then some are full blown rainbow and blue indicating that I wasn't getting good gas coverage. I know that I have a bad habit of not keeping the torch at 90 as I go around a tube so that's probably it.

Then there were spots that were just plain contaminated - maybe I touched the torch, it wasn't clean, the shielding was off - I'm not sure. I want to try this again but next time be more careful on my prep. I have been told forever how important prep is to ti but now I'm seeing what that means.

Tomorrow I'm going to try another set of tubes but spend more time on my prep and see if that helps.

Gregor
 
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sakurama

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So yesterday I texted back and forth a fair bit with Sean and he gave me some good tips and settings. I wanted to put a bit more effort into the prep and try some autogenous (no filler) welds.

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I swapped to the smallest tooth blade I had for the bandsaw which helped but I think I could go even smaller - or it might be worth trying the cold saw as that has flood coolant.

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Since the tape left residue I decided to make some caps and fittings for purging this sized tubes. I cut a groove for an o-ring but I don't think my o-rings are fully heat proof. I haven't melted one yet so I'm getting away with it.

i-7FKF3MK-X2.jpg


I bought a number of slip fit/press fit tube fittings so I can attach the purge tube. The only issue is that the tube is really stiff which makes holding the part a real pain. I need to find a very flexible tube to use between the welder and the table.

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It's a bit of work to make these but I can keep them in a drawer and have them whenever I want to weld this size tube again.

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I tacked the welds by hand this time with no purge. I've seen that done but Sean said it's not really best practice so I'll need to make something to use behind tacks. My tacks are very small - just a quick pulse - but holding the tube allows me to squeeze the joints together after the first tack shrinks and pulls.

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So this is obviously way better but it's also autogenous which I find to be way easier. I set the machine to pulse and then I could use a combination of moving the torch but also rotating the part to keep my torch angle as close to 90 as I could get. By taking the rod feeding out I can focus on arc length, angle, power and steps.

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If I was making an exhaust I would probably be fine with these non filler welds as they're not structural but I'm not getting full penetration on the back side of the weld. I probably need to go up in power to get that. But I can see that making an expansion chamber or exhaust is certainly in the realm of possibility.

i-kj2qs4g-X2.jpg


It's encouraging to see the work that I've spent on welding paying off across different disciplines. Aluminum and stainless are both good precursors to titanium.

Tomorrow I'll make some kind of tack backing tool and try a couple more slices of pie.

Gregor
 

tj675

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Apr 9, 2019
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The Mitten
One of the highlights of the shoot was that our pro rider was Jake Zemke who was one of my favorites when I was racing motorcycles in the early aughts. It was fun to sit next to him at dinner and talk about bikes, racing and his career and just get to know him over five days. He had seen Lara's XR100 build on my Instagram and immediately showed me photos of his mini.

i-sxTcbHz-X2.jpg

Jake is the definition of professional. The guy follows through on what he says he will do and is also a pleasure to spend time with. He rode one of our Triumphs at the last few races of 2013 and his feedback helped us build a 200 winner for 2014. My favorite rider to work with by far.
 
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E12-535iTurbo

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Feb 27, 2014
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492
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The Netherlands
If I was making an exhaust I would probably be fine with these non filler welds as they're not structural but I'm not getting full penetration on the back side of the weld. I probably need to go up in power to get that. But I can see that making an expansion chamber or exhaust is certainly in the realm of possibility.

Are you sure? I would not be very comfortable with welds not fully penetrating the tube especially on a part that has many extreme hot/cold cycles. Any point of weakness is a nice starting point for a crack.
 
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sakurama

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Are you sure? I would not be very comfortable with welds not fully penetrating the tube especially on a part that has many extreme hot/cold cycles. Any point of weakness is a nice starting point for a crack.

I meant with a fully penetrated non filler weld - not those actual welds. I don’t think filler is needed or used for exhaust systems. Could be wrong though. But yeah, I need more heat on my welds. I kept increasing the heat but haven’t found the right amount yet.

G
 
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sakurama

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Portland - the cool one.
Jake is the definition of professional. The guy follows through on what he says he will do and is also a pleasure to spend time with. He rode one of our Triumphs at the last few races of 2013 and his feedback helped us build a 200 winner for 2014. My favorite rider to work with by far.

He's just a really nice person all around. We've met a lot of cool people and racers and I don't think there's anyone as nice and professional. He had a smile on his face the whole time, never complained when we made him get up at 6am and stayed up to socialize with the riders and journalists.

It was also interesting to watch him ride compared to the journalists. He was effortless and controlled. At one point we were doing a tracking shot - shooting from the back of the open minivan - and we'd asked him to get close. He brought the bike to within 2 inches of the bumper and kept it there at 30mph watching traffic through the van, keeping the camera in view and staying aware of surroundings. And smiling as he did it!

Yeah, super cool guy.

Gregor
 

Vertigo Cycles

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Portland, OR
I meant with a fully penetrated non filler weld - not those actual welds. I don’t think filler is needed or used for exhaust systems. Could be wrong though. But yeah, I need more heat on my welds. I kept increasing the heat but haven’t found the right amount yet.

G

You might be able to change the grind angle on your tungsten to get better penetration too. A larger included angle might be the ticket...or just use more heat.

Also...kapton tape. I never need to use it to hold anything together, but I do use it to cover up vent holes when I want them out of the equation or to use as a failsafe for the purge plug if I expect a lot of distortion (that would change the fit of the plug and allow air in). Blue and green painters tape leave a residue when they get hot that's nearly impossible to get off with chemicals and I've had a few instances where I *thought* I got it all but got burned with a disastrous spot of contamination. I've since figured out that if you wipe it with denatured alcohol, you can actually see where it is...it has a different surface tension than the tube and looks like water spots. I've had good luck with kapton coming off clean but let's see if we can brainstorm a way to keep tape out of it altogether. I'll bring some with me tomorrow for testing purposes.

I'm getting a list of things to bring over. Text me if you have requests. What size torch handle do you have?
 
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sakurama

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You might be able to change the grind angle on your tungsten to get better penetration too. A larger included angle might be the ticket...or just use more heat.

Also...kapton tape. I've had good luck with kapton coming off clean but let's see if we can brainstorm a way to keep tape out of it altogether. I'll bring some with me tomorrow for testing purposes.

I'm getting a list of things to bring over. Text me if you have requests. What size torch handle do you have?

I've got a WP-20 water cooled torch and the *** cup. I ordered some Kapton before but have forgotten where I put it... I'll look for it.

Looking forward to some lessons.

G
 
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sakurama

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So yesterday I made a small thing to push argon behind a tack weld. Not sure it's the right tool or how well it works but so far it seemed to do the job.

i-8nGdgmw-X2.jpg


Just scrap stainless tube and some mesh and a push fit fitting.

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It was a trick to weld the perf on - it was about 10 amps. I put some steel wool behind to help diffuse the argon. Clearly I'm winging it here.

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I think the real difficulty is trying to hold it in place. The thing about tacking is that the first one is easy but as it cools it shrinks and pulls, ever so slightly, so that the other side has a gap and to close that you have to give it a squeeze. That's tricky on curved tubing.

i-CTC3WPK-X2.jpg


I found another pie cut and welded that on and bumped the heat a bit. I think there's still room to go.

Tomorrow Sean's coming over and it will be my first welding lesson in years! We've both been vaccinated so it will be nice to not have to bother with masks and to get the chance to hang out and get some tips from a real master.

Gregor
 

quadrcr87

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Jul 5, 2013
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Travelers Rest, SC
That’s awesome that Sean lives so close that you guys can meet up and work in the garage together. I think it’s time you guys collaborate on a 2 wheel build, with or without a motor.
 
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sakurama

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Whoa, that's quite the change isn't it? The site have been down for a day or more and now it's like someone rearranged all the tools in the drawers. It's probably better but I'll need to figure it out.

That’s awesome that Sean lives so close that you guys can meet up and work in the garage together. I think it’s time you guys collaborate on a 2 wheel build, with or without a motor.

Well, you (and I) might get your wish. Sean is perhaps the most dedicated perfectionist I have known and I've known a few. I am drawn to these sorts of people (my friend Scott comes to mind) because I want to be more like that. I'm not but I strive to be. If I were to be honest I don't know that I would ever achieve that level but I want to be closer - always closer than where I'm at.

image.jpeg

Hmm, I can now drag and drop photos - I'm curious how big they'll be...

Okay, Sean came over and, since we're now both double vaccinated, it was a treat to finally skip the masks and just be able to hang out. We started with coffee and chit chat. I didn't shoot quite so much because I was trying to pay attention. As if it wasn't enough that Sean had already given me some titanium tube to play with he brought another box...

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This box of tube weighs less than if it were filled with packing peanuts. Titanium is shockingly light.

i-fwLsPBJ-2434x1728.jpg

We started by just testing my setup. Sean adjusted my machine to match his settings which wasn't too far off my stainless settings. Despite owning my machine for... 14 years? I still don't really understand some of the settings. As a point of reference we were running 100 amps but controlling that with the pedal, our pulse was 1.8 per second which was super fast for me, our peak time started at my stainless setting 33% but we dropped it to his setting of 25% and I usually had my background amps set to 33 but we cut that in half. I was foggy on background thinking it was percentage but it's actual amps.

My diffuser cup seemed to do a decent enough job that we didn't test out the cup Sean brought. We ran a few beads and Sean gave me some tips. My method of laying the rod down in front of the puddle instead of feeding it in with dabs turns out to be a real technique. I feel better.

At this point we took a break and had some pizza for lunch - I felt it was the least I could do and also, you know, pizza. Of course.

After I really wanted to see Sean weld a real tube joint. That's the money - that's the hard thing. While you (and Sean) would think I have ever tool it quickly became apparent I do not. We tried to cut a larger diameter tube but I didn't have a good method of holding it and my small V-blocks, drill chuck holder and otherwise shoddy setup actually had Sean hiding in the back corner of the shop as the hole saw bit the material and threatened to explode. We abandoned that and moved to a smaller tube. For that I had sufficient tooling to hold both the hole saw and the material rigidly. Another valuable lesson: rigidity is key and more important with ti than any other material because of it's sticky and springy nature.

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Held tightly the mill power fed the table through the hole saw with zero issues. Like butter.

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Sean welded a small 3/4" tube to a 1-1/4" tube with a fusion pass to start. The fit up was super tight - no gaps. With no gaps a fusion weld is pretty easy. What I learned is that the purpose of the fusion weld first is about creating a thermal junction so that there is greater heat dissipation.

i-s34kmCv-2434x1728.jpg

This is the fusion pass. The other thing I learned is that what I thought was clean is not clean. In fact I think there are many people welding titanium that might think they're clean and they're not. I don't think I can convey how freakishly obsessively and maniacally clean Sean is with the welds.

But I'll try. Material is cleaned with red scotchbrite (inside and out) to remove the oxide layer, then soap and water, rinsed with distilled water, then wiped down with acetone. The filler and tungstens are also scotchbrited and wiped down with acetone. Bare hands don't touch the clean material. We didn't go to those lengths for our tests - we just did scotchbrite and acetone.

i-g8LbrWs-2434x1728.jpg

This might just be my favorite photo I've take this year. Maybe longer. It's very "me" but also, come on, how cool is seeing the weld in the reflection? Very. Also, man am I happy with the choice of the Sony A7C. This was shot with the new 35 f1.4 and it's a pretty dreamy piece of glass.

i-kt5FpXQ-2434x1728.jpg

This is the filler pass. Ti is very susceptible to cracking so you want a clean, smooth fillet. Almost better to be undercut than over filled. Ti flows very nicely but as a material it's sticky and wants to grab the rod when it's hot.

i-4hprfdq-2434x1728.jpg

After Sean left I wanted to go right back to the garage and try the same weld on my own. This time I used the cold saw with a very fine blade and it cut flawlessly. I also tried machining a tube down a bit to see how ti machined and it actually cut really nicely - better than stainless.

i-B4rBwPn-2434x1728.jpg

I also tried to do a filler pass on top of the fusion welds and that wasn't going well. Coverage is key and any color past straw is basically a fail. I had a lot of fails. Sean was right; that was much harder than the tube joint.

i-x3L9hnd-2434x1728.jpg

It was the best of Ti and it was the worst of Ti. I'm not sure why my ends lose gas coverage but I'm guessing I'm not keeping the torch at a right angle.

i-8rMLkP3-2434x1728.jpg

We burned a good amount of welding rod and I contaminated a lot of tungsten.

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The tube joint is much better. Sean's on the left and mine on the right. My other side isn't as good but this side was passable. Too much color but not a bad start. I feel like my journey would not be complete if I didn't get the chance to build a frame with Sean. I know there is sooooo much to learn and going through the process will teach me much more than just how to build a frame.

Hopefully it will be able to happen sooner than later but we'll see how our schedules line up. I will sell off both of my bicycles to help pay for the one new one and I'm still mulling over what it would be but I'm leaning towards something like a dirt jumper with a few gears. As simple and clean as can be.

Sean, thanks so very much. It was a real pleasure to hang out and I learned a lot.

Gregor
 

zmotorsports

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Great job Gregor. HUGE improvement over the first try. I too like taking time to alter one thing at a time in a process and look for improvement to find what works and what doesn't.

Like you, I made several purge boxes years ago but I made multiple using various shapes for various applications. You had mentioned that the tubing you used was too rigid and causing issues with being able to hold the part steady. I purchased some silicone hose from McMaster Carr that has worked fantastic. In several photos of my TIG welding setup you can see the light blue silicone hose hanging on the bottle in the background.

Here is a link to what I have been using successfully for years now.

Hope this is helpful.
 
OP
S

sakurama

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Portland - the cool one.
Thanks Mike. I have been wanting to order something but I was a bit overwhelmed with McMasters selection - analysis paralysis - so that got me off the fence. Ordered it up and should have it in a few days. Thanks!

Gregor
 

Vertigo Cycles

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193
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Portland, OR
Thanks for hanging out yesterday and for the amazing coffee and pizza. It's always fun to be in someone else's shop and try to sort out how I can be more efficient with my space and look at tools that I don't have (yet)

I'm going to call my buddy Oscar to see if he has any drops that could be used for practice material, ideally that's long enough to be properly purged so we can do the whole process correctly. Otherwise, you're just working on weld mechanics and exploring the limitations of that cup...which is great, but is just a small part of the big picture.

This next thing isn't just for you since you already know how I feel but I want to underscore the importance of the weld prep part of the process publicly because I feel that it's that important. I won't deny that some part of my insistence about cleanliness comes from my futile pursuit of perfection, but it mostly comes from my desire to prevent anyone from getting hurt because of a shortcoming on my end of things. A lot of people look at bicycles as a piece of sports equipment. I won't argue that, but it's also a vehicle that carries a human who is important to other humans and I just want everyone to get home safely. Some folks will never take their bikes more than a few miles into their local park. Others are doing minimalist self supported multi-day trips into the highlands in the winter and can be hundreds of miles from a truly safe place. I've hit 30mph on 2ft wide rocky single track on bench cut trail where a crash can mean a trip to the ER (and I know from first hand experience). All I want is for everyone to be able to 100% trust in the frame and if anyone is walking out of the woods, that it's not because I couldn't spare an hour to take care of a tedious, unseen but critical detail.
 

Vertigo Cycles

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Just for fun, you know how I was saying yesterday that you could make a spreadsheet of your settings and calculate the heat input? I did that. I'm starting with a couple of assumptions. The first is that the "power phase" of the pulse is at 40A. I know we were watching the amperage and it was all over the place, but I'm sticking with 40A. The second is that the welder would use the same target for bead spacing so the spacing would be the same through the length of the weld. I'm using roughly a quarter of the circumference of a medium size tube and guessing 20 pulses.

The only input difference in the settings is the PPS. This is 1.8 vs. 1.2. 30% on-time, 15A background. It all calculates out to just over 11 seconds of heat input for the 1.2 pulse and 16.7 seconds of input for the 1.2. Total input (Amperage) for 1.8 is 250A and 375A for 1.2.

So all settings being the same except for pulse rate and hand speed results in 50% more heat input for the slower pulse rate

This isn't "bad" but it is good to know. As you noticed, titanium isn't a great conductor and heat tends to build locally making it increasingly likely that your hand speed could outrun your gas coverage (titanium will absorb air particles above 400°) so on a piece with multiple joints, you would just plan on welding shorter runs, and move to other joints more often to keep the heat from building in any one joint.
 

hardtop5000

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Ngunnawal country
20210519-titanium19569


This might just be my favorite photo I've take this year. Maybe longer. It's very "me" but also, come on, how cool is seeing the weld in the reflection? Very. Also, man am I happy with the choice of the Sony A7C. This was shot with the new 35 f1.4 and it's a pretty dreamy piece of glass.
Hello Gregor. I'm a new member here but I know your work from Instagram. That photo is awesome but I suspect most people would think the weld image was pasted into the main shot. Shame . . .
 

goldtooth

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That Sony A7C is on my short list for our next camera. My buddy just picked one up and I love the size for a full frame. We use a Canon M6 Mark ii for video now and it is great because of the size but the lens selection is limited. And it is uncropped in 4K. *edit for uncropped 4K*
nate
 
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GeddyT

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That Sony A7C is on my short list for our next camera. My buddy just picked one up and I love the size for a full frame. We use a Canon M6 Mark ii for video now and it is great because of the size but the lens selection is limited. And it is cropped in 4K.
nate
Sorry for the thread distraction, but out of curiosity, why the A7C on the short list for video instead of the A7S?

I haven't used one, but the camera system that would really intrigue me for video were I to be thinking about switching would be the Panasonic mirroless full frame system. Only because their M43 bodies/lenses were soooooo good. Panasonic, more than any of the hybrid DSLR manufacturers, included robust video features in their mirrorless bodies from the get-go as opposed to making video an afterthought. If their full frame bodies are as intuitive and video-centric is the old M43, I bet it's a real winner. I don't shoot much video anymore, and my GH4 broke, so I've just been taking crappy video with my phone or borrowing the Mrs.' A7-iii, which I really like. (There is pretty amazing Sony glass as well.)

Gregor, my wife is obviously not at your level, but she does portrait photography locally and does quite well at it. She was shooting with the 85 f/1.4 GM and the 50 f/1.4 GM. I got her the 35 f/1.4 Distagon last summer, and it's hardly ever left the camera since. She loves being able to be closer to her subject while shooting, particularly with kids who need a lot of prompting and encouragement.

Out of curiosity, is your 35 the new G Master? And if so, is it worth the upgrade over the Distagon?
 

hardtop5000

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I can't speak for everyone but most people on this forum know Gregor's work and ethic and know that pic wasn't photoshopped.

YMMV

🍻
Thanks, I get that. By 'most people' I meant viewers not familiar with his work. Since those people aren't looking at this forum, it was an observation I didn't need to offer.
 

goldtooth

Member
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Messages
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Location
Portland
Sorry for the thread distraction, but out of curiosity, why the A7C on the short list for video instead of the A7S?

I haven't used one, but the camera system that would really intrigue me for video were I to be thinking about switching would be the Panasonic mirroless full frame system. Only because their M43 bodies/lenses were soooooo good. Panasonic, more than any of the hybrid DSLR manufacturers, included robust video features in their mirrorless bodies from the get-go as opposed to making video an afterthought. If their full frame bodies are as intuitive and video-centric is the old M43, I bet it's a real winner. I don't shoot much video anymore, and my GH4 broke, so I've just been taking crappy video with my phone or borrowing the Mrs.' A7-iii, which I really like. (There is pretty amazing Sony glass as well.)

Gregor, my wife is obviously not at your level, but she does portrait photography locally and does quite well at it. She was shooting with the 85 f/1.4 GM and the 50 f/1.4 GM. I got her the 35 f/1.4 Distagon last summer, and it's hardly ever left the camera since. She loves being able to be closer to her subject while shooting, particularly with kids who need a lot of prompting and encouragement.

Out of curiosity, is your 35 the new G Master? And if so, is it worth the upgrade over the Distagon?
The only reason would be cost. The A7C is $1800 and the A7Siii is $3500. I'm not a professional, just a hobby Youtuber so I don't need (not that I don't want) what the A7S can do.
I looked at the Panasonic and almost bought a G9 but I wasn't thrilled with the autofocus. We do travel vlog stuff and autofocus is super important for how we film. Though I may still pick up a used GH5 or G9 at some point to have as a second camera.
Sorry for the sidebar Gregor!
nate
 

burger

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Erf
Hello Gregor,

As always, thank you for posting and sharing. I've spent a bit of time looking at this picture of your welds against Sean's. Yours look a lot more like the "stacked coins" that I'm used to seeing and doing. Sean's look different. They're less distinct and there's something of a crystalline look to them. I've never done Tig and I've certainly never approached titanium. Sean's welds show no discoloration and barely show each pass. It just looks like a smooth and even pool. Is it that my idea of what perfect welds look like is wrong?


Thanks,
Ed

Edit- Getting used to the new board. I wanted to post that picture inline but couldn't figure out how.
 
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